Salman Butt vs Zulqarnain Haider

[Gollum]

It is interesting to see some PP'ers don't believe a word Zoni's been saying but they have defended Butt statements in the media. Kiya yeh khula tazaad naheen?

Butt has a lot of stuff against him in the open (videos etc.) that goes against his word. On the other hand Zoni has some stuff in his favour (like the domestic game where Salman scored 92 off 2 dozen balls), and the allegations he's been leveling are quite serious (threats against him and his family). I think Zoni has a stronger case in his favour since there isn't anything yet that disproves his case. It should be mentioned here though the facts have not been fully disclosed yet.

So why not give the same benefit of doubt to Zoni as has been accorded to Salman?

[DA_ANALYST]

Originally Posted by gollumbird It is interesting to see some PP'ers don't believe a word Zoni's been saying but they have defended Butt statements in the media. Kiya yeh khula tazaad naheen? Butt has a lot of stuff against him in the open (videos etc.) that goes against his word. On the other hand Zoni has some stuff in his favour (like the domestic game where Salman scored 92 off 2 dozen balls), and the allegations he's been leveling are quite serious (threats against him and his family). I think Zoni has a stronger case in his favour since there isn't anything yet that disproves his case. It should be mentioned here though the facts have not been fully disclosed yet. So why not give the same benefit of doubt to Zoni as has been accorded to Salman?

People are believing Butt because they are deluded!!! They think it a conspiracy against Pakistan!!!

Dont get me wrong but some aspects may have been "spiced" up but the majority of it is true.

We have to honest there is corruption in the Pakistan set up. Its a country wide problem.

Zoni had a great future. He won't have ruined it without there being a serious issue.

My gut feeling is that it was combination of threats but also i think he was giong to be dropped for the last ODI. Afridi had no faith in Zoni. Remember Rehman came above Zoni in the order...

[AZ]

can you give us a few examples of such posts/posters?

[DA_ANALYST]

Originally Posted by Ahmed Zulfiqar can you give us a few examples of such posts/posters?

Well I created a post about a Test match Sri Lanka in July 2009being possibly fixed and it was taken down.

Well the feeling Im getting is that Zoni is being seen as a traitor even before we dont know the "FACTS".

[praveen]

Yet another thread on zulqarnain

[Down2Earth]

zulqarnain is our saviour

[blinding light]

Salman Butt, as far as I know - in this whole saga relating to the media, his only crime has been that in the press conference of the Lord's test, he didn't speak up. I don't care if it was the PCB that had stopped him at that time, or someone else - had he spoken just 2 sentences the way he did in that Dawn News Special in the Lords PC, I'm sure most of the public perception would have been starkly different than what it is now.

Even after that, he hasn't been changing his statements every other day. Or making HUGE U-turns like "I retire from intl. cricket" - 5 hours later "I'm ready to play for Pakistan." - ala Zoni. The only confusing thing Butt's said is regarding the money found with him - and he's said it many times it was for the opening of an ice cream parlour (I don't know why, S.Butt said it and I was fine, Ijaz Butt said ths and I couldn't stop laughing! ) - and if I remember accurately, it was teh PCB who used the "its for his sister's marriage" card. But I'm not sure, if anyone is please enlighten me as well.

So the bottom line is - Butt has come out to the media and he has said a lot. A LOT. And so far, none of his statements are at least contradictory. But Zoni here, he's really having trouble making up his mind on what he really wants to do and is just coming across as a media whore.. I don't see Salman Butt on the channels all that often now, because once the ICC-suspension-farce was over, he raised a lot of hue and cry, and now its over and done with. He didn't come out in the media and say "I know a lot but I won't say it.." or reduce his judgements to philosophical paradigms like "Watan meri maa hay, seniors baap - " etc.

In the end, yes I may be biased, I'm a Salman butt fan - to me, he's innocent till he is at least proven guilty. And counting up the media statements and reactions, Butt's statements have had more weightage than Zoni's.

[AZ]

Originally Posted by DA_ANALYST Well I created a post about a Test match Sri Lanka in July 2009being possibly fixed and it was taken down. Well the feeling Im getting is that Zoni is being seen as a traitor even before we dont know the "FACTS".

what does that have to do with SB vs Zoni?

Zoni is not helping his cause with his irrational behavior, and eccentric statements to the media.

[Maula Jutt]

Salman Butt's guilty, imv ;)

[UsmanhailsAfridi]

we as a nation have started to honor cheats...and not speak out against them and defend them...hence the overwhelming support of the crook trio

[Salman]

There are all corrupt be it Butt or Zoni!

it's a well known fact that sattabaazi is prominent in cricket from grass roots tape ball level in Pakistan, that's where it all starts and flourishes upwards, the higher the level of cricket, the bigger , more powerful and shady the people involved.

[DA_ANALYST]

Originally Posted by Ahmed Zulfiqar what does that have to do with SB vs Zoni? Zoni is not helping his cause with his irrational behavior, and eccentric statements to the media.

Well Butt has never said he is not guilt but always implies "you got no evidence to charge me"

Do you think Zoni's behavior is going to be normal after what has happened.

But what he is saying is not very far from the truth

1. Most PCB officials are involved in fixing
2. The domestic match (salman butt 92) was fixed
3. Also why would he abandon his career without a valid reason.

[DA_ANALYST]

Originally Posted by UsmanhailsAfridi we as a nation have started to honor cheats...and not speak out against them and defend them...hence the overwhelming support of the crook trio

Well said bro. We do have some decent people out there!! lol

[saeed-sohail]

Originally Posted by Salman There are all corrupt be it Butt or Zoni! it's a well known fact that sattabaazi is prominent in cricket from grass roots tape ball level in Pakistan, that's where it all starts and flourishes upwards, the higher the level of cricket, the bigger , more powerful and shady the people involved.

This.

[AZ]

Originally Posted by DA_ANALYST Well Butt has never said he is not guilt but always implies "you got no evidence to charge me" Do you think Zoni's behavior is going to be normal after what has happened. But what he is saying is not very far from the truth 1. Most PCB officials are involved in fixing 2. The domestic match (salman butt 92) was fixed 3. Also why would he abandon his career without a valid reason.

Butt has already said we are innocent quite a few times.

as for the rest, just your personal beliefs, no facts to support any of your statements.

there are already plenty of discussions going about Zoni, this topic in particular is about something else altogether.

[DA_ANALYST]

Originally Posted by Ahmed Zulfiqar Butt has already said we are innocent quite a few times. as for the rest, just your personal beliefs, no facts to support any of your statements. there are already plenty of discussions going about Zoni, this topic in particular is about something else altogether.

Sorry bro i think your wrong. This thread is about butt vs zoni. That what im refering to.

I believe Zoni over butt.

You may have a short memory. The 1st press conference at Lords after the allegations Butt had guilt all over his face. Add that to his 92 of 25 ball and he has lost all my respect.

[AZ]

I guess you should call ICC then, you seem to have all the answers

[DA_ANALYST]

Originally Posted by Ahmed Zulfiqar I guess you should call ICC then, you seem to have all the answers

Bro its called an "Opinion". We don't all think the same.

Sorry if i'v offended you yaar.

[AZ]

lol not at all, you are more than welcome to your PoV!

[1137moiz]

I'm giving both benefit of doubt, but both, especially Haider, have presented their cases badly. Butt was silent when he shouldn't have been and is now raising a media outcry, Haider was just silly to panic and overreact the way he did

[1137moiz]

Originally Posted by DA_ANALYST Sorry bro i think your wrong. This thread is about butt vs zoni. That what im refering to. I believe Zoni over butt. You may have a short memory. The 1st press conference at Lords after the allegations Butt had guilt all over his face. Add that to his 92 of 25 ball and he has lost all my respect.

Lol I hate it when people think like this. He may well end up guilty, but if so it has nothing to do with a very understandable subdued reaction to those allegations. If he'd let out crap like the country being his mother or whatever people would have swallowed it hook line and sinker

Note I am not defending Butt or condemning Zoni, just trying to put things in perspective

[Proud To Be A Pakistani]

I see it other way around ..... PPer's are mostly against Butt ... yet nothing is proved .... if you keep reading stuff in zonIIII case ... you will find some support as well ... where as I see its to early to say wat zoniii is actually trying to do .... cos he is confused... on the top of it .... he keep changing his story .... that make his case more hopeless

[blinding light]

Originally Posted by 1137moiz Lol I hate it when people think like this. He may well end up guilty, but if so it has nothing to do with a very understandable subdued reaction to those allegations. If he'd let out crap like the country being his mother or whatever people would have swallowed it hook line and sinker

Thank you

If anybody accused me of murder, and asked me to make a "comment" on it the next day, and I just keep on staring incredulously at the microphone, would that make me guilty?

According to the self-proclaimed Body-Language-PHD-holders, yes. But for God's sake in both cases there is much, much more than what meets the eye ......

[Dr_Bassim]

Actually there is no difference.

One is adamant that he has never fixed matches his entire career ( Salman Butt) , which we take at face value ( most of us ) and if found guilty he will be crucified by Pakpassion and Pakistan off course ( Except AZ might still say he is innocent )

The other is also saying he hasnt fixed matches since his short career, but he keeps changing statements everyday too, so no one now believes him. Plus he ran away,from the team, so no one will love him.

Warna trust me OP. Ham sab ko donon sy utna hi pyaar hy jitna apko hy ;)