You Cant Expect to Win the WC with This Batting Line Up.

[saeed-sohail]

Call me a pessimist but I cant see us beating SA/Aus esp chasing with this batting line up.

In a tournament where every tom dick and harry is piling up runs our top order is struggling to put the minnows away.

Openers are suspect.Hafeez always looks good but gets out.Shezad seems to struggling at the big stage.

Kami is the worst #3 in the tournament among test nations.

YK and Misbah are decent but even on good days they cant bat the opposition out of the game.

On paper we have the best 6/7/8 in the competition but thats what they are 6/7/8.
Can you see us chasing 320 against top teams if our bowling has an off day?I cant ......260/270 at best.

Guys at the top need to lift their game or a QF/SF exit is a real possibility.

[*sallu*]

Top 3 is a big letdown

[saeed-sohail]

Originally Posted by *sallu* Top 3 is a big letdown

With Shez and Hafeez opening you need a match winner at three not another bit n pieces player.Why cant they put Umar at three?

[*sallu*]

Strauss, KP, Trott

Sachin, Sehwag, Gambhir

Watson, Haddin, Ponting

Smith, Amla, Kallis

Dilshan, Tharanga, Sanga

Guptill, McCullum, Ryder

Shahzad, Hafeez, Akmal

Compare our top 3 to any of the top 7 sides

[Ummer Khan]

drop HAFEEZ and open with kamran and shehzad, yk at 3, TUKOLO at 4 and umar at 5

bring in ASAD at no.6

problem solved

[Zaid23]

these are best bowling conditions so far in the world cup

[saeed-sohail]

Originally Posted by Ummer Khan drop HAFEEZ and open with kamran and shehzad bring in ASAD at no.6 problem solved

If they make a change it will be for shez as hafeez gives you that extra bowling option.

[saeed-sohail]

Originally Posted by Zaid23 these are best bowling conditions so far in the world cup

Are we playing world cup in Eng.Our top order is yet to give a commanding performance.

[in_cutter]

I've mentioned before..Hafeez is definition of a bits & pieces player...he will give you a 20-30 runs innings..maybe a hundred once in a blue moon. We needed a proper opener.

As for Shahzad...don't know whats happened to him.

[saeed-sohail]

Originally Posted by in_cutter I've mentioned before..Hafeez is definition of a bits & pieces player...he will give you a 20-30 runs innings..maybe a hundred once in a blue moon. We needed a proper opener. As for Shahzad...don't know whats happened to him.

That is on a good day.

[NiCe]

Kamran Akmal was ok in last 2 matches.. i think so some ppl always blame him with no reason.. he is worst keeper.. but sorry i dont agree that he is worst in no 3.. right now he is doing goood in that position

[immubhai]

Originally Posted by in_cutter I've mentioned before..Hafeez is definition of a bits & pieces player...he will give you a 20-30 runs innings..maybe a hundred once in a blue moon. We needed a proper opener. As for Shahzad...don't know whats happened to him.

That blue moon was only once till now !

He has always been a bits & Pieaces player. Lost cause!

[saeed-sohail]

Originally Posted by NiCe Kamran Akmal was ok in last 2 matches.. i think so some ppl always blame him with no reason.. he is worst keeper.. but sorry i dont agree that he is worst in no 3.. right now he is doing goood in that position

If he is good enough for you that is fine but he is not a #3.

[in_cutter]

..this is embarassing...

[NiCe]

today younis failed too... Hafeez is failed in all 3.. ahmed shahzad failed in al 3... omer akmal in 1... i think so better play with Kamran Akmal and Hafeez ( shahzad) as oepener and bring Asad in team

[saeed-sohail]

Originally Posted by NiCe today younis failed too... Hafeez is failed in all 3.. ahmed shahzad failed in al 3... omer akmal in 1... i think so better play with Kamran Akmal and Hafeez ( shahzad) as oepener and bring Asad in team

Agree if you are going to put him at the top then open with him.

[Saqib]

In this line we are relying to much on the middel order Younis Khan and Misbah-ul-Haq realy the top order needs to step up now. Or Younis Khan should come out and take position 3 were Kamran Akmal bats he should go to the lower order.

[kaalakawaa]

We have been put to our rightful place

Had no business winning the WC anyway. The fools were putting us on a pedestal after our last victory. Today is more like Pakistan

[md_tariq]

wristslitters have come out. as soon as we beat SL we are the world beaters and once we had a bad day, then questions like are we good enough?

Pakistan is a dangerous team because we play like champions one day and like minnow very next day. We are the most unpredictable team and very inconsistant. I am not surprised at all.

[RehanG]

lolz there we go..
we never play well against minnows.. nothing to be worry about in final we will get big boy whom we will crush like a baby..

[Faisalabadimunda]

this is a wake up call, came at the right time. Hopefully not resulting in an embarassing defeat.

[oracleg]

Even if we do lose it'll be overshadowed by Ireland's win over England.

I'm a bit happy with this turn of form, it's all going according to plan tbf. We're supposed to win World Cups by struggling at first then finishing strong.

[Sir john]

what a batting performance by pak against weakest team of world cup.

[James]

Originally Posted by oracleg Even if we do lose it'll be overshadowed by Ireland's win over England.

No it wouldn't. Ireland have beaten Pakistan, Bangladesh and England now, and everyone knew they had dangerous players. This would be a bigger shock, let's not try and hide it. Pakistan will still win though, IMO.

[GOAT]

Originally Posted by *sallu* Strauss, KP, Trott Sachin, Sehwag, Gambhir Watson, Haddin, Ponting Smith, Amla, Kallis Dilshan, Tharanga, Sanga Guptill, McCullum, Ryder Shahzad, Hafeez, Akmal Compare our top 3 to any of the top 7 sides

Indeed, we have the worst top 3 out of everybody (unless How or whatever is opening for NZ). What to do though? Who would've thought Hafeez and Shehzad would flop so hard in ideal batting conditions? Sigh.

[PB]

Ofcourse..Its going to be our bowling thats gona win us the World Cup.

You can't really complain about the top 3..Who would you replace them with?

[Jo_Don]

Lol @ the overreaction. Take it easy guys, you may well win the important games. Are you forgetting that not too long ago you only lost 3-2 to us?

[oracleg]

Originally Posted by Whippy No it wouldn't. Ireland have beaten Pakistan, Bangladesh and England now, and everyone knew they had dangerous players. This would be a bigger shock, let's not try and hide it. Pakistan will still win though, IMO.

A minnow cricketing nation chased down 300+ against one of the favourites to win the competition. How is that not a bigger shock?

[James]

Pakistan will win today and win their other group games except the one against Australia. Today and yesterday have been more of an indication of how unpredictable the knock-out stages will be - anyone can do a number on anyone else in this form of cricket.

[oracleg]

Originally Posted by Pakiboii Ofcourse..Its going to be our bowling thats gona win us the World Cup. You can't really complain about the top 3..Who would you replace them with?

True. We're screwed royally if any 2 of the top 6 get injured.

[James]

Originally Posted by oracleg A minnow cricketing nation chased down 300+ against one of the favourites to win the competition. How is that not a bigger shock?

Canada have been mullered in their games so far, if they beat Pakistan it will be an epic shock. Even the cricinfo podcast tipped an upset in the Ireland v England game, all of them agreed that it would not be easy. I don't think anyone saw today coming.

[PB]

Originally Posted by oracleg True. We're screwed royally if any 2 of the top 6 get injured.

Just goes to show, how weak are batting is, when Misbah and Younis fail...

Thats the reason, we've done decent..Either Misbah goes all the way, or Younis..But if both of them aren't there till the end, we are screwed big time.

[James]

Can't blame Misbah for being saddled with that. Younis played a shocking innings today. Useless Khan indeed - he's never convinced me in ODIs.

[Jo_Don]

Originally Posted by oracleg A minnow cricketing nation chased down 300+ against one of the favourites to win the competition. How is that not a bigger shock?

Ireland is the top minnow nation. They're a much better side than Canada.

If you want a fairer comparison, then let's suppose that Ireland = Aus, and Canada = WI.

[ozzy_07]

Originally Posted by Whippy Can't blame Misbah for being saddled with that. Younis played a shocking innings today. Useless Khan indeed - he's never convinced me in ODIs.

Harsh imo, granted Younis doesn't have the best ODI record but he has played two really good knocks in the first two matches in this WC.

[James]

Originally Posted by ozzy_07 Harsh imo, granted Younis doesn't have the best ODI record but he has played two really good knocks in the first two matches in this WC.

Thing is though, today wasn't really a surprise with regards to Younis, seen him play that quality of innings in far too many ODIs now. Nurdle it about and block for a while, then miss a straight one. His review was an insult and really didn't help the rest of the innings either.

[kaalakawaa]

Khan always struggled in PP overs. No surprise for me

He is most effective when he comes after the 15th over when the field spreads out. Number 4 and 5 is the best position for him but our experts keep persisting that he shd bat at 3 where he has consistently failed

[ozzy_07]

Originally Posted by Whippy Thing is though, today wasn't really a surprise with regards to Younis, seen him play that quality of innings in far too many ODIs now. Nurdle it about and block for a while, then miss a straight one. His review was an insult and really didn't help the rest of the innings either.

Agreed was a crappy innings today but then again most of our top-order was pretty crappy today. But your right- with his ability and experience Younis should have played a better knock today. I suppose you can't really explain how Younis (who has a pretty decent technique) can miss a pretty slow and straight ball.

Don't get me started on our use of the review- absolutely ridiculous players seem to be using them selfishly as opposed to intelligently.

[KingKhanWC]

Hafeez makes a hundred and falls asleep for the next dozen games.

Ahmed Shahzad has just made poor shot selections.

Kamran Akmal never learns by either cutting/driving to give a catch at cover/gully.

Younis/Misbah just played lazy shots today.

Umar Akmal played really well but lost concentration, should bat a lot higher up.

Afridi hasn't a clue as usual.

Razzaq hasn't had the batting.


The batting needs to wake up, do some work but the players have what it takes to score enough. Maybe change of batting order, Akmal should come down the order imo.

[James]

Originally Posted by Jo_Don Ireland is the top minnow nation. They're a much better side than Canada. If you want a fairer comparison, then let's suppose that Ireland = Aus, and Canada = WI.

This is what I think too. Gulf between England and Ireland is nowhere near as big as the one between Pakistan and Canada.

Then again this is why Ireland managed an upset and Canada will still get a battering

[hur rizvi]

Drop shehzad make akmal open

Move younis to no 3

that would make our batting lot more stable

[Jo_Don]

Originally Posted by Whippy This is what I think too. Gulf between England and Ireland is nowhere near as big as the one between Pakistan and Canada. Then again this is why Ireland managed an upset and Canada will still get a battering

I'm not so sure. Canada don't need to take any risks and they're not under pressure to score boundaries. They just need to keep their wickets and get a few singles per over.

Although I suppose that it is still possible for them to revert to the typical minnow mentality and sink for <100.

[Romali_rotti]

LOL Is this the opposite thread for: India's weak bowling exposed ?? HAHA

[md_tariq]

Originally Posted by Sir john what a batting performance by pak against weakest team of world cup.

thats pakistan for you. you never know how we are going to play.

[QuarterBack]

Originally Posted by Romali_rotti LOL Is this the opposite thread for: India's weak bowling exposed ?? HAHA

Thats exactly what I was thinking...

[Abidi110]

Originally Posted by Romali_rotti LOL Is this the opposite thread for: India's weak bowling exposed ?? HAHA

The difference is that Pak fans AREN'T DEFENDING their batting and are rather bashing their batters unlike the Indians who seems to defend their bowlers blindly.

This performance is nothing new from our batsmen, they do put up a good performance in 1 or 2 match but they remain poor in most of the matches.LOL at ppl who were labeling them fav's for the cup on the basis of performance of only one match!

[pun500]

Originally Posted by Abidi110 The difference is that Pak fans AREN'T DEFENDING their batting and are rather bashing their batters unlike the Indians who seems to defend their bowlers blindly. This performance is nothing new from our batsmen, they do put up a good performance in 1 or 2 match but they remain poor in most of the matches.LOL at ppl who were labeling them fav's for the cup on the basis of performance of only one match!

yes when u r batsmen give u rank 2 and 1 in odis and tests resp then you can defend them

[md_tariq]

Originally Posted by Abidi110 The difference is that Pak fans AREN'T DEFENDING their batting and are rather bashing their batters unlike the Indians who seems to defend their bowlers blindly. This performance is nothing new from our batsmen, they do put up a good performance in 1 or 2 match but they remain poor in most of the matches.LOL at ppl who were labeling them fav's for the cup on the basis of performance of only one match!

You talk as if Pakistan and India are equal in the rankings. There is a reason why India have been consistantly winning in the past few years and we have been very inconsistant and hardly won any test or odi series in the last few years.

[Markhor]

Ahmed Shehzad has been unfairly thrown into the deep end,he just managed to cement a place in the side and was settling nicely but making him open in the World Cup,his first WC is asking for a lot.If he has to stay in the side he should be at No 4,with Kamran,Hafeez and Younis in the top-order.

[Love Pakistan]

Hafeez
Kami
YK
U. Akmal
Afridi
Misbah
Shehzad
Razzaq
Gul
Ajmal
Akhtar

[Love Pakistan]

We always have to use YK as an insurance policy... that shouldn't be the case....

[JibranAnsari]

People saying that akmal is doing well as a no 3. I think akmal still in his mind thinks that he is number 6 or 7 and playing like them and not trying to cosolidate the innings. I would rathar play umar akmal at 3 if it has to go like that otherwise younis khan is the best number 3 we have. Its time we give umar akmal a better role and that is number 4 and kamran akmal can play at 6.

[w8in_4_0402]

i adressed this problem last night, i was sure these three will fail again.

We need to send Umer at 3 he is just too good to be left for a couple of overs. he looked awesome batting early in the middle.

Kami can be placed at 6.

[WithLoveFromCanada]

YOU CAN EXPECT TO WIN THE WORLD CUP WITH THIS BOWLING LINE UP - the other side of the title

[WithLoveFromCanada]

However I'd say, drop kamran akmal...give umar the gloves.

[FusedBulb]

Originally Posted by Markhor Ahmed Shehzad has been unfairly thrown into the deep end,he just managed to cement a place in the side and was settling nicely but making him open in the World Cup,his first WC is asking for a lot.If he has to stay in the side he should be at No 4,with Kamran,Hafeez and Younis in the top-order.

Not sure if I agree with you. This Kenya and Canada attack is there to be thrashed like an astray dog. The problem is "FEAR". Body is free but the mind is locked. No wonder NONE of the Pakistani batsman is able to have a high back lift and a fast bat speed. Everyone is pushing and nudging with an occasional hit. Look at O Brian's innings, look at how Sehwag plays, look at how at Tendulkar plays,,,, high back lift, great bat speed. And then look at Hafeez, Shehzad, YK, even Azhar Ali, body language of a defeatist, no heart and fire power in the stroke, no high back lift, and very slow bat speed,,, how does it all form ??? FEAR my friend , Fear.

Afridi with the bat is perhaps the only exception. Rest are all powerful bulls but with the minds of a scared rat.

We need a good batting coach who could identify this problem, take em to nets, ask them to HIT FEARLESSLY with a high back lift and very fast bat speed, this is what will break the mental shackles and Waqar is just clueless about it.

[Zoab_Khan]

Today's batting performance was pathetic.
But i think its a good time for these guys to adjust.

I can't complain about Mishhhhbah today. If we lose his wicket we would be 67-5???

The first 2 matchs we have won largely because of Younis and Misbah. They are doing fine. But the problems i see are:
1. Opening pair not doing anything
2. KAkmal is not a #3. He can't take singles. He is best when he is opening.
3. We are wasting Afridi at #6 or #7. Don't see the logic of bringing in Afridi and Razzler right next to each other. They don't complement each other.

4. Against strong batting sides we need at least 3 genuine fast bowlers. And i don't think Razzler is a genuine fast bowler.

[Markhor]

Originally Posted by FusedBulb Not sure if I agree with you. This Kenya and Canada attack is there to be thrashed like an astray dog. The problem is "FEAR". Body is free but the mind is locked. No wonder NONE of the Pakistani batsman is able to have a high back lift and a fast bat speed. Everyone is pushing and nudging with an occasional hit. Look at O Brian's innings, look at how Sehwag plays, look at how at Tendulkar plays,,,, high back lift, great bat speed. And then look at Hafeez, Shehzad, YK, even Azhar Ali, body language of a defeatist, no heart and fire power in the stroke, no high back lift, and very slow bat speed,,, how does it all form ??? FEAR my friend , Fear. Afridi with the bat is perhaps the only exception. Rest are all powerful bulls but with the minds of a scared rat. We need a good batting coach who could identify this problem, take em to nets, ask them to HIT FEARLESSLY with a high back lift and very fast bat speed, this is what will break the mental shackles and Waqar is just clueless about it.

But isn't that my argument ? Any youngster will look like a rabbit caught in the headlights,nervous and playing with a great deal of fear and restraint when they are brought into the side so early.

It would be better if Shehzad played either lower down the order,maybe at no 4 or 6 and send Kamran Akmal to open (who is out of place at no 3),rather than having Shehzad open,because sending such raw youngsters to face the new ball,against top class bowling attacks is equivalent of giving the opposition a meat offering.

Or we could let him be a squad member for now at least until Misbah decides to retire from ODIs,this World Cup is probably his last anyway so it would be a way to give Shehzad time and steadily build his confidence by playing LOIs.Then maybe when it is time for Younis Khan to retire,bring Shehzad into the Test team if he is progressing well.That is how you can groom a youngster.

You have to have the seniors there guiding him,and then when the junior is ready,then unleash him while the senior steps back.

You can ruin the careers of youngsters by throwing them into a World Cup,''here you go Ahmed,theres Dale Steyn at 85-90mph'',its a high-risk strategy and so far its failed.I understand Afridi and the team management want young blood to be groomed into the team for the long-term,but at the same time you have to treat such players with kid gloves.

Shehzad has had issues with discipline and temperament before so it is extra reason to not throw him in at the deep end so early in his career.

[shahrukh619]

Simple solution, bring Kamran at no.6 and Umar at 1 down.

[Uhaymid]

Guys relax


did you see the movement, t urn and bounce the bowlers were getting today?


it was NOT a one-day pitch.. it was a crazy england or austrlia first day test match pitch


there was a real chance for us to get bungled out for 120ish...


this is crazy that in the worldcup u suddenly put up such a different pitch than all the rest for one match...

[Riff]

To those asking for Hafeez to be dropped,

Do you have the slightest idea of what would that do to our bowling options? It would be Razzaq, Akhtar, Gul, Afridi, Rehman. WOW!! Hope none of our only 5 bowlers have a bad day, probably have to give Younis Khan a few overs

THINK!!

[hasanmehmoodkhan]

thread opened to fast IMO. wait a few games i think kami and umar need to make a swap

[srh]

Originally Posted by *sallu* Strauss, KP, Trott Sachin, Sehwag, Gambhir Watson, Haddin, Ponting Smith, Amla, Kallis Dilshan, Tharanga, Sanga Guptill, McCullum, Ryder Shahzad, Hafeez, Akmal Compare our top 3 to any of the top 7 sides

South Africa, India, England, Sri Lanka and Australia definitely have better top 3

[*sallu*]

Guptil, McCullum and Ryder >>>>> Hafeez, Shahzad and Kamran

[chacha kashmiri]

I think our top 3 may not be the best but what comes after more then makes up for it.

If you look at the england for example, after the top 4 are out, they have nothing left. Same with sri lanka.

[srh]

Originally Posted by *sallu* Guptil, McCullum and Ryder >>>>> Hafeez, Shahzad and Kamran

you may be right. So basically Pakistan has the worst top 3? What about West Indies and Bangladesh?

[saeed-sohail]

Even Windies with Gayle and bravo in top three are better then us.

[ads101]

Originally Posted by *sallu* Guptil, McCullum and Ryder >>>>> Hafeez, Shahzad and Kamran

But they weren't when we played them in New Zealand. Well our openers weren't anyway. Ryder owns Kamran as a no.3.

I really do think Shahzad's problem is due to nerves. That's restricting his style of play. Hafeez is still striking the ball well and will get good scores again. Kamran, well, he's always been inconsistent.

I really think our top 3 will start firing again. With our options, they're still the best top order we can russle up. Younis Khan looks better and more valuable at 4. As for umar, I don't think he's actually doing so badly at no.6. He had the number of overs to perform today, and he was by far our best batsman. Would have been nicer for him to have made a higher score, but he did well under pressure.

This isn't the strongest top 3 in the world, but it's better than what we showed today.

[saeed-sohail]

BD have Tamim imrul and siddique.

[*sallu*]

Originally Posted by srh you may be right. So basically Pakistan has the worst top 3? What about West Indies and Bangladesh?

West Indies I rate higher than Pakistan

Gayle, Smith and Bravo Jr.

Gayle is world class
Bravo Jr is a huge talent
And Smith is okay (equal to our top 3 standards)

Bangladesh top 3 have been performing well over a while now, they have a very steady top 3, hardy ever changes

Tamim, Imrul and Junaed

[PB]

Originally Posted by *sallu* West Indies I rate higher than Pakistan Gayle, Smith and Bravo Jr. Gayle is world class Bravo Jr is a huge talent And Smith is okay (equal to our top 3 standards) Bangladesh top 3 have been performing well over a while now, they have a very steady top 3, hardy ever changes Tamim, Imrul and Junaed

Nah, Our top 3 is MUCH better...

Only Gayle is better then our top 3..

[abc_to_xyz]

Batting?? :S BOWLING SHOULD BE OUR MAIN CONCERN.. GUL never performs in ODI WCs.. Wahab is too straight... we can't bank on Akhtar and Razzaq only Need one more.. Junaid Khan perhaps ;)

[Zoab_Khan]

Junaid Khan should be given a chance. Wahab gets hit around too much.

[AZ]

did you read the thread title?

[PakWC'11Champs]

Well the mistake is thinking Pakistan can win the WC. If Pakistan gets to the SF's (I think they will) that in itself is a big progress and achievement considering the crisis they were in 6-8 months ago (or a year ago).

Be realistic about expectations. Pakistan are not the best side in the World consistently. On their day they can beat anyone but they can lose to about anyone too. Overall expecting them to put on 3 straight great efforts is ridiculous. They have not shown that. The QF-SF-Final style suits a team who is consistent and can get on a run. Pakistan can do that, but not to the extent some of the other teams can.

They have top 4 bowling, top 6 batting and top 7 fielding. Where does that put them? Around 5-6 in the World. I think right now you are seeing Pakistan do exactly what they are supposed to be doing. They're beating the teams they are better than. If we beat Australia, well then that's something else.

Top 4 teams - South Africa, Australia, England, India
5-6-7 - Pakistan, Sri Lanka, New Zealand

[saeed-sohail]

Can someone please put ODI stats Pakistan Windies and BD here.Thanks

[Gollum]

Certainly with what the top order has shown so far in this tournament we won't win the World Cup (perhaps not even get past the quarterfinal stage). Hafeez and Kami have to get their act together. They are the established players in this team now and they need to pull their own weight to justify their continued inclusion in the side. I would give Shahzad a pass since he is a young rookie. He just need a breakthrough innings and he will be fine IMO.

[saeed-sohail]

Hafeez is under pressure now and Kami needs to deliver at 3.

[insaaniyat]

Originally Posted by Ummer Khan drop HAFEEZ and open with kamran and shehzad, yk at 3, TUKOLO at 4 and umar at 5 bring in ASAD at no.6problem solved

I wouldn't tinker with this team at all. They look good. They are proving the non believers wrong big time. It seems like no matter what the score is, we will defend it. Remind me of Austrlia. One bad day and we are questioning our talent. Individually in batting we may not have super stars, but collectively we are the CHAMP, Insha-Allah

[KingKhanWC]

Hafeez's last few innings have been poor, not sure why he was in great form when he scored his hundred. If he doesn't get any runs in the remaining 3 group games then a change has to be made. The rest are o.k and although Shazad has struggled he is still in good form but has just played poor shots.