Give your reason for not supporting Imran Khan:

[zaid65]

Here is a simple question to all the people who are reluctant, hesitant, against or confused about supporting Imran Khan.

I want to know, what is the main reason for not supporting him, or think he is not good enough.

[in_cutter]

All politicians are full of cr@p

[spinDoc]

Originally Posted by in_cutter All politicians are full of cr@p

you have to choose some one or u happy with PPP and PML alternating goverments with occaional army.

[zaid65]

Originally Posted by in_cutter All politicians are full of cr@p

Wrong statement.

Not all, there are few politicians even in PMLN and PPP are good politicians and have good characters.

[Aly]

While I could give hundred lame reasons (like my fellow liberals/leftists/secularists/ pppers/ mqmers who carry various eternal biases against any thing slighlty "nationalist"/ popular hailing from PUNJAB ) since I am an agnostic, a secualrist and dare I may say a half "sindhi" as well

But TBH with you despite all those flaws and reservations (which practically only exist in those "right - left" centric drawing rooms/ bubbles of khi, lhr and isd ) I am ready to give imran khan a chance since practically speaking there's no real secular/ liberal party in Pakistan to begin with!

and yes I laugh my **** of when the corrupted pppers or the goons of karachi portray themselves as secularists or liberals !

At least Imran is not racist!

as for the topic: Because he is a dumb speaker who still lacks the articulation of a true leader!

[AZ]

because he does not have a party or any form of experience in political matters.

its all well and dandy to be in perpetual opposition and saying the right things, different kettle of fish to be in a position of power and actually making a difference.

also by all indication he is coming through the same agency-backed route by which all others have entered into power.

it is not the love of PTI or IK, rather the frustration with the established ones that is fueling this 'support'.

[farhan]

his racism, since the cricketing days.....

[naqlipathan]

Originally Posted by Aly While I could give hundred lame reasons (like my fellow liberals/leftists/secularists/ pppers/ mqmers who carry various eternal biases against any thing slighlty "nationalist"/ popular hailing from PUNJAB ) since I am an agnostic, a secualrist and dare I may say a half "sindhi" as well But TBH with you despite all those flaws and reservations (which practically only exist in those "right - left" centric drawing rooms/ bubbles of khi, lhr and isd ) I am ready to give imran khan a chance since practically speaking there's no real secular/ liberal party in Pakistan to begin with! and yes I laugh my **** of when the corrupted pppers or the goons of karachi portray themselves as secularists or liberals ! At least Imran is not racist! as for the topic: Because he is a dumb speaker who still lacks the articulation of a true leader!

many ppl think imran had agenda against karachi during his cricket days

and his comment against MQM baber ghori is unforgivable about african kids.

[zaid65]

because he does not have a party or any form of experience in political matters.

You have a choice to choose the experienced choor, corrupt leaders ( Nawaz, Zaradri, MQM, Chaudries) or honest naive leader who has no political experience but has track record to put the things in control and best order.

also by all indication he is coming through the same agency-backed route by which all others have entered into power.

Pakistan is a nuclear state, do not fool yourself if you think agencies will allow any maaja ghama from the street to come in power. Countries like US, where democracy is 200 plus year old, agencies makes the decision choosing the president ( indirectly).

it is not the love of PTI or IK, rather the frustration with the established ones that is fueling this 'support'.

Or, people finally realized they were wrong choosing or supporting the corrupt politicians and dictators.

[Eagle_Eye]

Zaid65 - You might want to start with your own views first.

[Free Hit]

because you are his supporter zaid.

[saadibaba]

Lots of reasons. Read the following article.

http://www.dawn.com/2011/11/06/imran...e-reality.html

[Love Pakistan]

The question should be that how on earth can you give your vote to Nawaz, Zardari, MQM, Kaaf league, or ANP and not to Imran Khan who is far better than all these sucky parties!

[waqar_ahmad]

The only reasons for not supporting Imran are based on assumptions, ifs and butts.

And all the reasons given in this thread until now, fall in the above categories

[zaid65]

Originally Posted by Free Hit because you are his supporter zaid.

Best thing about you, your never disappoint me with your idiocies

PS: This thread is not for kids or for immature people.

[zaid65]

Originally Posted by waqar_ahmad The only reasons for not supporting Imran are based on assumptions, ifs and butts. And all the reasons given in this thread until now, fall in the above categories

But these assumptions are indirectly point out that these people are indirectly supporting the corrupt people and either giving the lame reasons to justifying their indirect support to corrupt people or they are fooling themselves with these assumptions.

[Free Hit]

Originally Posted by zaid65 Best thing about you, your never disappoint me with your idiocies PS: This thread is not for kids or for immature people.

lol, and I thought 90% of Imran fans are young people(hence kids mentally) and immature physically.

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by zaid65 But these assumptions are indirectly point out that these people are indirectly supporting the corrupt people and either giving the lame reasons to justifying their indirect support to corrupt people or they are fooling themselves with these assumptions.

If you look at some of the arguments:

1. He doesnt have any experience: Well, did he have any experience of doing charity work, or building a top class cancer hospital, and running it? But he did, didnt he? How many of these "experienced" politcians can do that? And if pakistanis want to wait for an experienced leader to lead the way, then good luck ot pakistan.

2. Indications are that he is being helped by the agencies, just like the other politicians in pakistan: Indications? So based on assumptions. Just like others? The others were practically raised by the ISI. Nawaz Sharif was practically Zia's son. Zia gave him important positions and funds. The same can be said about Bhutto and Ayub Khan. MQM was crerated by the ISI to neutralize PPP. How in the world is that the same as Imran?

3. He is taliban khan: So, just coz he believes blind military operations are not the way to eradicate terrorism, he supports the taliban?

4. Some ethnic reasons, mostly presented by MQM fanboys.

A lot of BS reasons, and this is why I try to stay away from such arguments. People who give these lame reasons, deserve to be ruled by zardaris, sharifs and altafs

[zaid65]

The same can be said about Bhutto and Ayub Khan.

Bhutto used to call Ayub his dady, Nawaz and his taleem-o-tarbiat under Zia is well documented, less is said about MQM and agencies is better.

A lot of BS reasons, and this is why I try to stay away from such arguments. People who give these lame reasons, deserve to be ruled by zardaris, sharifs and altafs

I have always said, the reasons we are ruled by these corrupt leaders, because majority of us are corrupt and support the same kind of people and than complain to others about our destiny.

[Badsha]

Honestly, I have yet to hear a reason which directs to IMRAN KHAN. Something he says which someone disagrees with.


Saying stuff like "He has no experience. He's not good enough" is a bit dumb to say.

Maybe it's because I'm a very logical thinker. I need.. REASONS. WHAT is there that Imran khan plans on doing with which you may not agree??

[insaftak]

Originally Posted by Badsha Honestly, I have yet to hear a reason which directs to IMRAN KHAN. Something he says which someone disagrees with. Saying stuff like "He has no experience. He's not good enough" is a bit dumb to say. Maybe it's because I'm a very logical thinker. I need.. REASONS. WHAT is there that Imran khan plans on doing with which you may not agree??

Tax reforms -----> Get rid of the current indirect taxation and more direct taxation.

2) Local Governments with police under local government ---> right now everything is under control of one man (chief ministers)

3) Negotiating Peace with militants

4) bringing more transparency in government.

5) Independent Accountability commission, Independent Election commission

6) more education and healthcare budget.

[insaftak]

Originally Posted by AZ because he does not have a party or any form of experience in political matters. it is not the love of PTI or IK, rather the frustration with the established ones that is fueling this 'support'.

lol @ No experience. You are right with no experience at robbing people and evading taxes.

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by insaftak Tax reforms -----> Get rid of the current indirect taxation and more direct taxation. 2) Local Governments with police under local government ---> right now everything is under control of one man (chief ministers) 3) Negotiating Peace with militants 4) bringing more transparency in government. 5) Independent Accountability commission, Independent Election commission 6) more education and healthcare budget.

Police reforms. Electing the SHO, instead of him being appointed by the govt. A very very good idea.

This nonsense that he is inexperienced, he is backed by the agencies coz "it seems like it", and my personal favorite "he can only talk" etc. etc.

People really need to come up with better reasons than these

[Prince_Pathan]

heard a few people saying they arent voting him in because he is pro pashtun lol

[Wasim1]

Reason for not supporting Imran Khan?

Ummm well running a country isnt the same as captaining an ODI side...how about that for starters?

[saadibaba]

"Having undermined and discredited every political party in the country, he has left himself almost no space to backtrack on what he never tires of brandishing as the core principle of his politics — no compromises for electoral success. The moment he utters the word ‘alliance’, he will start losing support."

That's from article I talked about in my earlier post.

I have been following Imran's rhetoric for a while now. Not too long ago, he was all about bringing fresh faces into politics. Non politicians, professionals, middle class people, etc. Now, he is explaining the reasons why all politicians are not bad, especially the ones joining his party, because apparently they had no other choices. Well, excuse me but isn't PTI been around for a while. All those "lota's" who are now coming to PTI, were they unaware of a party called PTI or the great charismatic leader called Imran Khan. Have some of them reformed recently or is it because they were unable to get tickets from other parties and decided to hedge their bet on the PTI bandwagon or is it because of a nod from the establishment, you take your pick. But the problem is that if you build yourself up as an alternative to the rest of the lot than you need to have candidates who are different from the rest of the lot. Career politicians like the ones who are joining him are no where close to being the type of people who one can expect to bring any major change to the current status quo.

[Prince_Pathan]

^^ being the only man not under american monetary influence is a huge thing

[SIMBA]

Because he's not corrupt, he's honest, charismatic, not under American influence, is pro Pakistani

[saadibaba]

Originally Posted by SIMBA Because he's not corrupt, he's honest, charismatic, not under American influence, is pro Pakistani

The Beyghairat Brigade got it right. ‘Tehreek-i-Insaaf = A Good Looking Jamat-i-Islami’.

[AbdulrazzaqFan]

Imran Khan FTW!!

[Black Zero]

1) PTI is a changed party when they accepted lota culture.
2) PTI is now a puppet party, managed by agencies.
3) PTI got soft corner for Taliban and radical elements in Pakistan. (Last thing we need is such party in power)
4) PTI leader is naive and had been misused in past from various actors. (i.e. JI)
5) PTI has no firm commitment to democracy (Welcomed coup against elected govt, tried to deal to get power from back door, boycott general elections and trying to destabilize elected govt, and supported referendum)
6) PTI in not a national party and at the moment it's confined to NWFP and S.Punjab. (no practical presence in Baluchistan and Sindh).
7) PTI is one man show (i.e. detain IK and then PTI got no one to lead "dharna", happened several times during the struggle for a pco CJ)
8) PTI are not committed to rights for women (few years back PTI agreed with other parties competing in one constituency that women wouldn't cast vote)
9) PTI misguided about terrorism in Pakistan. They think it all due to american presence in the region..which is only half true. PTI believe in negotiating with murderers while we need someone who can eradicate the problem.
10) PTI misusing the word "revolution" and in fact delaying it.

[insaftak]

Imran Khan doesn't have experience in defaulting payments to LESCO Either.

http://www.lesco.gov.pk/News&Media/5000071.asp

[qamar84]

Originally Posted by zaid65 Here is a simple question to all the people who are reluctant, hesitant, against or confused about supporting Imran Khan. I want to know, what is the main reason for not supporting him, or think he is not good enough.

give me yours to support him

[qamar84]

Originally Posted by Prince_Pathan ^^ being the only man not under american monetary influence is a huge thing

sorry did you listen his interview in cnn he is very kindly with them

[Momo]

My reasons for not supporting Imran Khan

1. He is a zionist puppet (Israeli agent).
2. His ex-wife is a jew.
3. He is on talking terms with his divorced wife (astaghfirullah!). What's more, he is still friends with his ex in-laws (lauhaala wala quwatta!).
4. He is letting his Muslim sons to continue being raised by their jewish mother, who also happens to have a loose character (inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi raajioon).
5. He is the father of Seeta White's daughter (Babar Ghauri has proved it using his infallible resemblance argument).
6. He is a pathan.
7. He is a pathan and still can't speak Pashto.
8. He gave an interview to an Israeli journalist.
9. He is reported to occasionally inhale.
10. He had a very good time in his youth (this is definitely not acceptable).

[Muhammad Waleed]

Your all point are valid ^
But how he's a zionist puppet?

[WakaWaka]

Originally Posted by saadibaba Lots of reasons. Read the following article. http://www.dawn.com/2011/11/06/imran...e-reality.html

Did you read it?


Its basically a summary of what he's done for 16 years, and his political agendas, which may alienate some voters.


It doesn't give one reason not to vote for him.


It just says other people won't because he is 'anti political', which makes no sense. Shouldn't that be the reason to vote for him?

Same with another factor, not making aliances. Again, reason to vote for him?

[deathstreak]

Technically Imarn has shown he can mobilize reources and use them
his cancer hospital and the school point to that.
However, as far as his policy of government goes.. does he have any real plans or anything?
Or is he more like Obama.. all rehotoric and no real implementable actions?
Obama did get the healthcare plan through though

[siccric]

The only reason I will probably end up voting for him is because I am absolutely fed up with all our other 'leaders' - It really has nothing to do with IK, except for the fact that he hasn't had a chance to form a government just yet

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by saadibaba The Beyghairat Brigade got it right. ‘Tehreek-i-Insaaf = A Good Looking Jamat-i-Islami’.

Excellent political analysis.

As I said, keep on basing your thoughts on a music band, and on articles written by the likes of nadeem farooq paracha.

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by deathstreak Technically Imarn has shown he can mobilize reources and use them his cancer hospital and the school point to that. However, as far as his policy of government goes.. does he have any real plans or anything? Or is he more like Obama.. all rehotoric and no real implementable actions? Obama did get the healthcare plan through though

Listen to his speech. Listen to his interviews. He talked about actual plans.

Insaftak mentioned some of them in his earlier post.

[Waseem]

Originally Posted by waqar_ahmad If you look at some of the arguments: 1. He doesnt have any experience: Well, did he have any experience of doing charity work, or building a top class cancer hospital, and running it? But he did, didnt he? How many of these "experienced" politcians can do that? And if pakistanis want to wait for an experienced leader to lead the way, then good luck ot pakistan. 2. Indications are that he is being helped by the agencies, just like the other politicians in pakistan: Indications? So based on assumptions. Just like others? The others were practically raised by the ISI. Nawaz Sharif was practically Zia's son. Zia gave him important positions and funds. The same can be said about Bhutto and Ayub Khan. MQM was crerated by the ISI to neutralize PPP. How in the world is that the same as Imran? 3. He is taliban khan: So, just coz he believes blind military operations are not the way to eradicate terrorism, he supports the taliban? 4. Some ethnic reasons, mostly presented by MQM fanboys. A lot of BS reasons, and this is why I try to stay away from such arguments. People who give these lame reasons, deserve to be ruled by zardaris, sharifs and altafs

Spot on Waqar!!!

[DHONI183]

I am on the fence on this one (since I hardly take interest in politics) but I dearly want Imran Khan to be given a chance, finally. I mean, if he promises so much then let him have his term and let´s see what he does.

[PennOne]

My Reasonings:

He has been too much aligned with the Mullah political groups in the past. His policy of bringing Taliban to the table will give them legitimacy in the political process. The goal of the Taliban is to bring the same concept of Islam that they believe in into Punjab and Sindth and make it essentially the same as Afghanistan. Something which is unacceptable. though he is the lesser of the evil and I would be willing to give him a try over all the rehashed politicians because at least he has some policies laid out unlike the others who go with the flow

[spinDoc]

Originally Posted by Momo My reasons for not supporting Imran Khan 1. He is a zionist puppet (Israeli agent). 2. His ex-wife is a jew. 3. He is on talking terms with his divorced wife (astaghfirullah!). What's more, he is still friends with his ex in-laws (lauhaala wala quwatta!). 4. He is letting his Muslim sons to continue being raised by their jewish mother, who also happens to have a loose character (inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi raajioon). 5. He is the father of Seeta White's daughter (Babar Ghauri has proved it using his infallible resemblance argument). 6. He is a pathan. 7. He is a pathan and still can't speak Pashto. 8. He gave an interview to an Israeli journalist. 9. He is reported to occasionally inhale. 10. He had a very good time in his youth (this is definitely not acceptable).

he wears western clothes(tuba tuba)
he says pakistan is for all pakistanis( what a sinner)
he doesnt give speeches from behind bulletproof glass
he is an Alien in disguise
And the best one-
he is not circumsized( i know nothing about this one just heard it from some one. if any one here remembers after zulfiqar butto was hanged ,pics of his body were taken on zia orders to see if he was circumcised )

[the Great Khan]

he married a gori
he married a jew
he married a chrisitian who used to be a jew
he married a woman who goes around dressed in a bikini
he will probably marry her again
he is a beghairat
he has no honour
he has no policies
he speaks rubbish english
he has no experience
the ISI said so
he wont win so why bother?
he's a hidden mullah because he prays namaaz and we want people who dont pray namaaz to lead us
he used to be a secularist and turned his back on that lifestyle, how dare he?

[the Great Khan]

Originally Posted by PennOne My Reasonings: He has been too much aligned with the Mullah political groups in the past. His policy of bringing Taliban to the table will give them legitimacy in the political process. The goal of the Taliban is to bring the same concept of Islam that they believe in into Punjab and Sindth and make it essentially the same as Afghanistan. Something which is unacceptable. though he is the lesser of the evil and I would be willing to give him a try over all the rehashed politicians because at least he has some policies laid out unlike the others who go with the flow

your reasonings are based on some very flawed assumptions. simply negotiating an end to a conflict does not eman that these groups will be brought into the political process. Its a fallacy. The taliban cannot do what you say so stop worrying about it. If they could they would have done it already. So dont worry no one will get a cattle prod and force you into a Masjid.

[Tapori]

I think its brilliant that the Pakistan media have become so free, that I can now read criticisms of almost everyone including IK.

Just read some decent critiques in papers like Dawn as well as many praising IK sycophantically.

Pakistani's are now facing up to people having different, but not always well thought out (Some articles and talk shows are just provocative for provocatives sake), criticisms of their heroes/beliefs/philosophy.

I still have yet to read solid policy detail from the PTI on everything they say they want to do,,,

[Tapori]

he married a gori he married a jew he married a chrisitian who used to be a jew he married a woman who goes around dressed in a bikini he will probably marry her again he is a beghairat he has no honour he has no policies he speaks rubbish english he has no experience the ISI said so he wont win so why bother? he's a hidden mullah because he prays namaaz and we want people who dont pray namaaz to lead us he used to be a secularist and turned his back on that lifestyle, how dare he?

I've heard he once stayed over at his Jew Salla/Borther-In-Law Zac Goldsmiths house?

How dare he? You shouldn't even drink water from your in-laws house; the dishonour, oh the dishonour...

[srh]

because his sleeping arrangements have regressed big time.

Before:


Now:

[PennOne]

Originally Posted by the Great Khan your reasonings are based on some very flawed assumptions. simply negotiating an end to a conflict does not eman that these groups will be brought into the political process. Its a fallacy. The taliban cannot do what you say so stop worrying about it. If they could they would have done it already. So dont worry no one will get a cattle prod and force you into a Masjid.

Saw a video on youtube and the Taliban spokesman wants exactly what I said, he basically said It is their duty to bring their version of Islam into Pakistan.

[zimmz]

I don't want to waste my vote when the common prediction is that he will not win. Only if every other person guarantee his win i might vote him...

[PennOne]

Originally Posted by srh because his sleeping arrangements have regressed big time. Before: Now:

that same argument was made for Osama who started in palaces and then slept in caves. doesnt mean anything in the end.


I will however want to see him lead as the others have got pakistan on the brink

[Eagle_Eye]

Zimm - How are you going to vote for him sitting in Deutschland?

[AbdulrazzaqFan]

Originally Posted by PennOne Saw a video on youtube and the Taliban spokesman wants exactly what I said, he basically said It is their duty to bring their version of Islam into Pakistan.

I read this a while back. A member of the central executive committee of Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf clearly said:

"Imran rejects the Taliban version of orthodox Islam and believes in the progressive view of Islam as preached by Quaid-e-Azam and Iqbal. Imran also values the rich cultural and religious heritage of Islam and how it has evolved in the sub-continent and West Asia."

http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrin...9&dt=5/23/2009

[zaid65]

His policy of bringing Taliban to the table will give them legitimacy in the political process.

What Imran has been saying, US is doing the same, finally US is trying to sit down with Taliban on table and negotiate.

Next argument!!

[zaid65]

Originally Posted by saadibaba The Beyghairat Brigade got it right. ‘Tehreek-i-Insaaf = A Good Looking Jamat-i-Islami’.

I was expecting some intellectual response from you ( because I have high respect for you as a poster), but you have disappointed me with typical sarak chaap response from typical Pakistani mentality.

First of all everybody knows he is not Jammati, but lets say for the sake of argument, if Imran is a Jamaati, are Jammatis are worse than Zardari, Nawaz or Altaf or Musharaf, have people found any corrupt Jammati, have they found them involved in morally unacceptable behavior or they like to criticize them as a fashion?

[akheR]

I'm FOR Imran Khan, but if I had ONE negative point it would be:

- He should diversify the leadership. I know that's a new party, so unknown names, but he should have some eloquent guys under him who will be PTI's public image (apart from Imran Khan himself.)

[insaftak]

ANALYSIS: Why progressives should support Khan —Yasser Latif Hamdani If Imran Khan opposes the bombardment of the tribes in Waziristan, he is consistent in applying the principle across the board by opposing any military solution to Balochistan Political pundits long poked fun at him and told him to stay out of politics because he was too ‘naïve’, ‘Im the Dim’, too ‘simple’, a ‘dunce’ or a ‘fool’, but they were unable to break his spirit. He was called an actor and a pretender by people who themselves are nothing more. His one time friend and later foe, Pakistan’s last tin pot dictator Pervez Musharraf referred to him as an unbalanced character who would never amount to much and who he had been wrong to suffer. Just as he began as a cricketer, dismissed as without talent who would never bowl fast, in politics too Imran Khan was dismissed with nothing but prejudice and contempt. He took each humiliation, insult and used it as a stepping stone to that ultimate triumph that now is only a matter of time. History, dear readers, is replete with such examples of persistence and courage; Jinnah being the last example from our recent history. The reason I support him however is not because of his great moment of personal triumph, which even on its own is inspirational enough, but because, in my view, Imran Khan represents by far the most progressive option in Pakistan, all things considered. Consider. The established definition of modernity rests on the following pillars: social justice, political democracy, secularism, responsible government and most importantly the rule of law. Imran Khan openly espouses four out of five of these conditions. He stands for social justice between economic groups and for the uplift of marginalised sections of society. He is committed to the electoral process and believes in a responsible and accountable government. Finally, he speaks of a society where the rule of law reigns supreme and therefore everyone — without exception — is equal in the eyes of the law. As for secularism, I am not of the opinion that one should refrain from using terms that aptly describe an idea or a person just because that person refrains from using these terms. As Marx said so aptly that the politics of politicians of the day ought to be analysed not per the draperies that adorn it but that the veil should be pierced to get to the substance of such politics. Khan may denounce secularism and pledge allegiance to the Islamic faith, but his politics, centring on commonsense temporal issues like the creation of a social welfare state, is by definition secular politics and a secular agenda. Distinguishing Islamic ideology from secularism, Imran Khan says in no uncertain terms that an Islamic state would provide all the freedoms of a secular state but would preserve the family system, which is the essence of Islam in his view. This view by no means is unique. Great Britain, which in theory is a protestant monarchy, is in fact a secular democracy without a complete separation of church and state. It seems then that Imran Khan is pleading for a cultural ethos rooted in Islam and not necessarily a state policy that seeks to implement one interpretation of Islam over the other. By espousing a pluralistic, democratic and egalitarian state, albeit Islamic, Imran Khan is following in the footsteps of established Islam-based democrats like the great Reccip Erdogan of Turkey and more precisely Ennahda Party of Tunisia. This trend has been described by many scholars as post-Islamism, which loosely defines politics that might deploy Islamic symbols and be culturally at home with this rhetoric but which follows an agenda of reform and pluralism. Imran Khan is Pakistan’s and possibly, with the exception of the Turkish prime minister, the Islamic world’s most credible post-Islamist leader. He has the potential to be Pakistan’s Erdogan. The socialist left should in particular recognise the potential Khan’s politics present to it. At the very least it is certain that the urban middle class — or to use Hamza Alavi’s innovative term, the ‘salariat’ — who supports Imran Khan represents the strengthening of capitalism and the rapid breakdown of traditional feudalism that has its hold over Pakistan. His challenge to the patwari (land record officer) system for example is significant for it promises to break down existing feudal structures and thereby disrupt in a significant way the control over the means of production in the agricultural rural areas. Another plank of his political design is to levy agricultural income tax, which will serve to strengthen the aforesaid salariat, which today bears the burden of heavy taxation because of the perpetual tax holiday unfairly and unjustly given to the landed class by the forces of the status quo. All these are steps in the right direction. Indeed it is the responsibility of every progressive patriot to lend a hand to Khan in doing away with these last vestiges of a medieval feudal society that have long held back our country. Another idea that was mocked by some was Khan’s suggestion that police chiefs ought to be elected by the people. This is central to the idea of direct democracy though it is not without its cons. Still, elected officials are always better than unelected appointees. In this one finds the germs of a viable local government that can play an important intermediary role between the state and the individual. One needs to only attend a meeting of a city council in the US to see how important this idea is for the formation of an informed citizenry that is interacting with the state at the most basic level. It is also important to note, for those who level the scurrilous charge that he is an establishment stooge, that Imran Khan has strongly condemned the brutalisation of Balochistan by the deep state. If Imran Khan opposes the bombardment of the tribes in Waziristan, he is consistent in applying the principle across the board by opposing any military solution to Balochistan. Here is the great merging of right and left on a single point agenda: dignity of the people of Pakistan, including all its oppressed groups and ethnic nationalities. Today if there is any one politician who can find a way out of the quagmire of Balochistan by restoring the constitutional rights of the Baloch people, it is Imran Khan and he is not someone who can be ignored easily by anyone who wants to see a fair and just solution to the issue. On the issue of the war on terror, Khan for long has advocated a peaceful political solution to the dismay of many, including myself. Today, even the most fervent advocate of the war on terror recognises the futility of armed conflict in Afghanistan. The massive mobilisation of the de-politicised sections in Pakistan makes Imran Khan’s movement unique. There is a tendency to dismiss it as an urban middle class ghairat (honour) phenomenon but that flies in the face of reality. It is therefore for Pakistan’s marginalised left in disarray to seize this moment or remain forever irrelevant. Only through engagement with this new national movement can the ideas espoused by the dozen odd communist and socialist parties be mainstreamed. Time is of the essence. The writer is a lawyer based in Lahore. He is also a regular contributor to the Indian law website http://mylaw.net and blogs on http//globallegalforum.blogspot.com and http://pakteahouse.net. He can be reached at yasser.hamdani@gmail.com

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...-11-2011_pg3_5

A great article in Daily Times yesterday and this is why I support Imran Khan.

[the Great Khan]

Originally Posted by PennOne Saw a video on youtube and the Taliban spokesman wants exactly what I said, he basically said It is their duty to bring their version of Islam into Pakistan.

yes we know that but they have failed and will fail in this mission. Talking to them will ensure the hardcore can be eliminated. 90 days was the time Pasha gave to the NA if we get out of the WOT.

[the Great Khan]

Originally Posted by insaftak http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...-11-2011_pg3_5 A great article in Daily Times yesterday and this is why I support Imran Khan.

yes and why I support him too. I do disagree with the assessment of post Islamism though. If you understand this is what Islam is all about too, welfare, rule of law, social justice, dignity. There is no contradiction!

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I have no idea what Imran will be like as a politician but I do know he's always been a man of strong principles who has enough fame and resources to find better ways to spend his time, probably in any other country of choice. The fact that he's stayed in Pakistan should say a lot about his commitment.

But they say you get the leaders you deserve, and if the people of Pakistan want to keep voting for crooks and thieves then that's what they should have.

[zaid65]

It is funny, mind boggling and pathetic to see when critics brings Imran's personal life and scandals into discussion but on the same token, completely ignored the scandals or immoral behaviors of Nawaz Sharif, Zardari, Musharaf, Altaf and many others..Do people have short term memory, if interested, ask me, I will give you the details of all these leaders personal scandals.

I don't understand when they discuss the personal issues or life of Imran, what is their reasoning, are they choosing him for the chairman of Tableeqi Jamaat or choosing him to run the political office of the country?

[0tt0man]

So how many of the posters in this thread will actually be voting or are eligible to do so?
An overwhelming majority of Musharraf's supporters are overseas Pakistanis. I can sense a lot of them in this thread as well

[zaid65]

Originally Posted by 0tt0man So how many of the posters in this thread will actually be voting or are eligible to do so? An overwhelming majority of Musharraf's supporters are overseas Pakistanis. I can sense a lot of them in this thread as well

Majority of the Musharaf ( biggest thief) supporters are in hide out or busy condemning the small thief, (match fixers)..

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

Originally Posted by zaid65 You have a choice to choose the experienced choor, corrupt leaders ( Nawaz, Zaradri, MQM, Chaudries) or honest naive leader who has no political experience but has track record to put the things in control and best order.

Don;t have anything against IK but there is a saying in urdu that " bewaqoof dost se dana dyshman acha hota hia "

Out of all teh reasons to pick IK this is the one reasoning i have a problem with . I like IK and illl support him because he seem honest and has been "mostly" consistent with what he says.That is a big thing in Pak politics where PML=PPP=MQM=ANP

[zaid65]

Don;t have anything against IK but there is a saying in urdu that " bewaqoof dost se dana dyshman acha hota hia " Out of all teh reasons to pick IK this is the one reasoning i have a problem with

Can you enlighten us with logic ( not just with blind statement), what make you think Imran is bewaqoof.?

[farhan]

eventhough , he is the most honest amongs the lot but his policies regarding different issues, I am really worried. if he wins the election, I totaly believed due to his regid attitude Pakistan is gonna end up like Iran (ahmadinijad) in isolation and with lot of sanction on it.

[saadibaba]

Originally Posted by zaid65 I was expecting some intellectual response from you ( because I have high respect for you as a poster), but you have disappointed me with typical sarak chaap response from typical Pakistani mentality. First of all everybody knows he is not Jammati, but lets say for the sake of argument, if Imran is a Jamaati, are Jammatis are worse than Zardari, Nawaz or Altaf or Musharaf, have people found any corrupt Jammati, have they found them involved in morally unacceptable behavior or they like to criticize them as a fashion?

Dear bro, did you read my other post. I'll copy and paste it again. Post # 26

"Having undermined and discredited every political party in the country, he has left himself almost no space to backtrack on what he never tires of brandishing as the core principle of his politics — no compromises for electoral success. The moment he utters the word ‘alliance’, he will start losing support." That's from article I talked about in my earlier post. I have been following Imran's rhetoric for a while now. Not too long ago, he was all about bringing fresh faces into politics. Non politicians, professionals, middle class people, etc. Now, he is explaining the reasons why all politicians are not bad, especially the ones joining his party, because apparently they had no other choices. Well, excuse me but isn't PTI been around for a while. All those "lota's" who are now coming to PTI, were they unaware of a party called PTI or the great charismatic leader called Imran Khan. Have some of them reformed recently or is it because they were unable to get tickets from other parties and decided to hedge their bet on the PTI bandwagon or is it because of a nod from the establishment, you take your pick. But the problem is that if you build yourself up as an alternative to the rest of the lot than you need to have candidates who are different from the rest of the lot. Career politicians like the ones who are joining him are no where close to being the type of people who one can expect to bring any major change to the current status quo.

Imran is not a Jamati but he definetly draws a lot of conservative crowd to his cause. With regards to foreign policy, his views are very similar to Jamati views. You talk about Jamati's not being corrupt. What about Molana Fazl Urrahman aka Molana Diesel. You are talking about a party who have consistently been a tool of the establishment. If they are so clean, why don'e people vote for them.

In any case, I think the argument that because there is noone better therefore one has to support Imran because no matter whatever deficiencies he may have, atleast he is not corrupt and is sincere about Pakistan. The same argument can be used to support martial law or a technocratic govt. Why not support that. Imran Khan was supposed to be the great Messiah, a revolutionary leader and your main argument has come down to, support him because the rest are worse. Well, that does not sound like a great leader to me. Did people supported Jinnah because he was the best of the worst. Did people supported Bhutto because he was the lesser of all the evils. I think the desperation among PTI supporters is becoming quite palpable when their whole argument rests on the "lesser of all evils" theory. In any case, good luck to him and PTI. I have nothing personal against him but I sure hope that he gets his act together.

[farhan]

imran khan and his cousin majid khan has some fare share in promoting the hatred in cricket ( Karachi vs Punjab)

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Originally Posted by farhan imran khan and his cousin majid khan has some fare share in promoting the hatred in cricket ( Karachi vs Punjab)

I'm not sure the hatred was from the Khan side or the opposition who liked to push that agenda.

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

Originally Posted by zaid65 Can you enlighten us with logic ( not just with blind statement), what make you think Imran is bewaqoof.?

actually its nadaan=naive. Whats explaining do you need ?

[zaid65]

Originally Posted by from_da_lost_dim3nsion actually its nadaan=naive. Whats explaining do you need ?

Ok explain to me how he is naive?

[zaid65]

You talk about Jamati's not being corrupt. What about Molana Fazl Urrahman aka Molana Diesel. You are talking about a party who have consistently been a tool of the establishment. If they are so clean, why don'e people vote for them.

It look like either you have not followed Pakistani politics or you are confused with Maula Diesel's party. When people call Imran as Jamaati, it means they are associating him with Jamaat-e-Islami due to Imran's close association with Qazi Hussain and now Maulana Munawar Hasan. Imran has nothing to do with Fazlo.

[PennOne]

Originally Posted by zaid65 What Imran has been saying, US is doing the same, finally US is trying to sit down with Taliban on table and negotiate. Next argument!!

and that argument failed and collapsed after Taliban assassinated a number of people in recent weeks.

[saadibaba]

Originally Posted by zaid65 It look like either you have not followed Pakistani politics or you are confused with Maula Diesel's party. When people call Imran as Jamaati, it means they are associating him with Jamaat-e-Islami due to Imran's close association with Qazi Hussain and now Maulana Munawar Hasan. Imran has nothing to do with Fazlo.

OK, so Jamati is JI not JUI, I got it. Were'nt they in alliance at one time. I think it was called MMA.

[zaid65]

Imran Khan was supposed to be the great Messiah, a revolutionary leader and your main argument has come down to, support him because the rest are worse. Well, that does not sound like a great leader to me. Did people supported Jinnah because he was the best of the worst. Did people supported Bhutto because he was the lesser of all the evils. I think the desperation among PTI supporters is becoming quite palpable when their whole argument rests on the "lesser of all evils" theory. In any case, good luck to him and PTI. I have nothing personal against him but I sure hope that he gets his act together.

First of all nowhere I have said Imran is a Messiah or he is a revolutionary leader. I had few meetings with him and I found him quite simple in politics and not as shrude or cunning as most of the politicians.

My reason to support him is very simple, he has found to be honest, not once people have questioned him on his honesty, dedicated, determined, not power hungry, otherwise would have accepted Musharaf's offer to become the PM, has courage to speaks the truth ( which most people are reluctant), ..

What is wrong to accept the lesser evil theory? ( if this is the best argument you can come up), or should we continue to support the bigger evil forces because we do not have real Messiah comes out yet from the seventh sky?

[zaid65]

Originally Posted by saadibaba OK, so Jamati is JI not JUI, I got it. Were'nt they in alliance at one time. I think it was called MMA.

Imran had nothing to do with that alliance but Jamaat Islami left the alliance because of corrupt Fazlo.

I can highlight more on that alliance and its differences, but this is off topic discussion,

[zaid65]

Originally Posted by PennOne and that argument failed and collapsed after Taliban assassinated a number of people in recent weeks.

US is still trying to make the deal with Mulla Umar and that is the only solution for the Afghan war.

[saadibaba]

Originally Posted by zaid65 First of all nowhere I have said Imran is a Messiah or he is a revolutionary leader. I had few meetings with him and I found him quite simple in politics and not as shrude or cunning as most of the politicians. My reason to support him is very simple, he has found to be honest, not once people have questioned him on his honesty, dedicated, determined, not power hungry, otherwise would have accepted Musharaf's offer to become the PM, has courage to speaks the truth ( which most people are reluctant), .. What is wrong to accept the lesser evil theory? ( if this is the best argument you can come up), or should we continue to support the bigger evil forces because we do not have real Messiah comes out yet from the seventh sky?

That whole "PM offer by Musharraf" rumor has been overblown by Imran and PTI supporters. Musharraf has since been repeatedly asked if he ever offered Imran the PM post and he has repeatedly denied it. We can either believe Imran or Musharraf, everyone is free to take their pick.

Nothing wrong with the "lesser evil theory", but its not the most compelling theory if that's all you got. Plus, anyone who has never come to power will always be the lesser of all evils by the simple fact that they have no track record, no experience in management and no way of anyone to judge how they will rule. Running a country is not the same as being a captain or running a hospital.