What Yousuf Did to U Akmal | Find a More Extreme Example

[Ironcat]

Umar Akmal career test stats:

		Mat	Inn	Runs	Ave	100s	50s

With Yousuf	8	16	717	51.21	1	5
Without Yousuf	8	14	286	20.43	-	1

Ratio of "with" average to "without" average: 2.51

Here is another. Azhar Ali career test stats:

		Mat	Inn	Runs	Ave	100s	50s

With Younis	9	16	724	55.69	1	7
Without Younis	8	16	445	27.81	-	4

Ratio of "with" average to "without" average: 2.00

See if we can find a more extreme case. A genuine case nonetheless.

I'm sure there are a few. Maybe Misbah and someone else?

[Ironcat]

Here are the links:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=batting

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=batting

[ddss]

Misbah and Asad maybe.

Yousuf can't make the test squad because we already have settled seniors, but he definitely should be in the one-day team instead of YK.

[Ironcat]

Umar Akmal is a really extreme example. You are expected to get better with time, so some part of Azhar's later super-performance can be explained. For Umar, it's just .

[1137moiz]

It just shows how most PPers underrate the importance of senior role models to help younger batsmen.

[Cover Drive]

Brilliant thread.

I clearly remember the days when Umar Akmal made his debut and when Mohammad Yousuf was in middle with Mohammad Yousuf, literally after every single delivery Yousuf would go to Akmal and teach/tell him what to do and what not to do. So this was heavily criticized by nearly everyone on PakPassion.

And since time have passed now people are starting to realize how beneficial it was for Umar Akmal.

I remember when Mohammad Yousuf joined Pakistan team in 2010 Tour of England in Test Series Pakistan won the test straight away in which Yousuf played and Azhar had scored a 50 or so in that match and after the match Azhar Ali said that Mohammad Yousuf's presence in the middle helped him significantly and here is context from the article;

Originally Posted by From Cricinfo ......... Yousuf's sense of calm was indeed contagious as Azhar Ali started playing with gusto at the other end. Though he had a fifty under his belt in his five Tests, on this tour Azhar, like his Pakistani peers, has looked uncertain about which road to take whenever Pakistan found themselves at crossroads. Today he appeared more decisive and less fallible. Even when Yousuf departed, for the first time attempting an expansive stroke against Swann, Azhar guarded against any collapse with aplomb. "Mohammad [Yousuf] was very helpful," Azhar said. "When I was in the middle he was guiding me, calming me down, saying 'just stay in and the runs will come'." ....... Link: http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-...ry/473396.html

[Down2Earth]

it's a shame yousuf didn't bat much with khurram mansoor

[MR__KHAN__JI]

with

fawad.JPG

[Gotham Cronie]

Great thread. Didn't catch it the first time around.

Also, I remember Umar Amin doing well batting with Yousuf in a practice game after failures on the test level. Sadly, he didn't get to play with him in a real match.

[omairsiddiqui]

No one is doubting Yousuf's influence. The question is who do you leave out to accommodate Yousuf? While he may help youngsters at the crease, he may end up harming the confidence Asad has developed because Asad will most likely be the one to make way.

[Ironcat]

Originally Posted by omairsiddiqui No one is doubting Yousuf's influence. The question is who do you leave out to accommodate Yousuf? While he may help youngsters at the crease, he may end up harming the confidence Asad has developed because Asad will most likely be the one to make way.

As I said in another thread, no other team in the world has the same 6 batsmen playing in every test match. Even England during their peak went through a few configurations - i.e. Collingwood out / Bell in, Morgan in / out, Cook has had his moments of truth (esp. against Asif), and if Staruss wasn't the captain...

For SA, the only sure test starters have been Amla, Kallis, Smith, and ABDV.

India, Aus, and SL have had their batting worlds turned upside down.

The objective should be to have a core group of 8 to 10 batsmen who can be reconfigured depending on the opposition, grounds, conditions, series, etc. Look at Hafeez. Plays non-stop and never gets a chance to correct the technical mistakes that he keeps on repeating.

[Cosmic]

Yousuf for batting coac

[Canistani Hero]

Valid point but after a while you expect an Umer Akmal to grow out of it, he can't always have a Yousuf holding his hand.

[ElRaja]

Originally Posted by Ironcat Umar Akmal career test stats: Mat Inn Runs Ave 100s 50s With Yousuf 8 16 717 51.21 1 5 Without Yousuf 8 14 286 20.43 - 1 Ratio of "with" average to "without" average: 2.51 Here is another. Azhar Ali career test stats: Mat Inn Runs Ave 100s 50s With Younis 9 16 724 55.69 1 7 Without Younis 8 16 445 27.81 - 4 Ratio of "with" average to "without" average: 2.00 See if we can find a more extreme case. A genuine case nonetheless. I'm sure there are a few. Maybe Misbah and someone else?

asad shafiqs stats are misleading, of the 8 tests he has played without yk, 6 were his first 6 tests, in england agnst very good bowling teams.

whilst the stats are revealing, due to the tiny statistical sample you have used, it is impossible to say that form, opposition, or conditions have nothing to do with it.

[ads101]

The thing is youngsters have plenty of experience to play with. Younis Khan and Misbah. Even Taufeeq and hafeez to some extent. Younger batsmen will rarely be battling it on their own without a more experienced partner on the other end. Got plenty of experience to learn from.

When we have misbah and younis in the team, not sure Yousuf is really needed. People will say youngsters will learn from him, but what if he suddenly enters the team? Asad will probably make way for him. So no youngster really is going to get the opportunity of his experience and to play with him. Except maybe azhar who is doing fine anyway.

It's ironic that people are talking about umar akmal and yousuf and how badly umar needs yousuf, but if yousuf is in the team umar won't get a chance to play. So what's the point.

[asif9138]

black jadooo

[Lachrymose]

Excellent stuff!

It really does help to have a senior batting along with a youngster and helping him in improving his game!

[Ironcat]

Originally Posted by ElRaja asad shafiqs stats are misleading, of the 8 tests he has played without yk, 6 were his first 6 tests, in england agnst very good bowling teams. whilst the stats are revealing, due to the tiny statistical sample you have used, it is impossible to say that form, opposition, or conditions have nothing to do with it.

16 innings as a sample size is more than enough.

Sure, Azhar Ali's was a case of learning over time, but U Akmal's can't possibly be. He played most of those 8 tests in the first half of his test career. The difference is too large to blame it on sampling.

[MR__KHAN__JI]

You don't need stats to prove this principle.

It's just a Known FACT.

It's just something that's kids have to learn.. Just like brushing teeth.

One day there is a realisation.... Aaaa that's why I brush my teeth.

[omairsiddiqui]

I just feel that Pak has a really good balance of old and young right now in the Test side. If the balance is disturbed, then we might end up in a situation like India's at the moment. Sachin, Dravid, Laxman dominated for so long that no youngster was given enough Test experience.

[MR__KHAN__JI]

2 oldies are needed.

Choose two out of misbah moyo and yk.

[AmmarAshraf]

Originally Posted by MR__KHAN__JI 2 oldies are needed. Choose two out of misbah moyo and yk.

NO Brainer. Misbah is captain and Younis Khan is your best test batsman since 1 Nov 2010 http://bit.ly/HFyv87 ( Yousuf is least interested in ODI cricket. 3rd Paragraph -> http://es.pn/JiRUqf )

Yousuf's case is weak. He has not featured in international or domestic tournaments in more than nine months.

Last time he was selected for South Africa Series in UAE and he got injured. He make a comeback in 5th ODI against South Africa and just before 1st test he got injured again.

Yousuf need to play 3 5 domestic matches to prove his fitness and form. This is not rocket science. Har jaga yea hi criteria hai.

[Desi]

lol

or you include all 3 and have a rotation policy

[Canistani Hero]

Originally Posted by AmmarAshraf NO Brainer. Misbah is captain and Younis Khan is your best test batsman since 1 Nov 2010 http://bit.ly/HFyv87 ( Yousuf is least interested in ODI cricket. 3rd Paragraph -> http://es.pn/JiRUqf ) Yousuf's case is weak. He has not featured in international or domestic tournaments in more than nine months. Last time he was selected for South Africa Series in UAE and he got injured. He make a comeback in 5th ODI against South Africa and just before 1st test he got injured again. Yousuf need to play 3 5 domestic matches to prove his fitness and form. This is not rocket science. Har jaga yea hi criteria hai.

Valid point

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Originally Posted by Desi lol or you include all 3 and have a rotation policy

Merry go round...

Damn we need a smilie for this.

[Bilal7]

I think its time Taugeeq leaves the team to make way for MoYo..... provided that the bearded one performs ofcourse.

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Originally Posted by Bilal7 I think its time Taugeeq leaves the team to make way for MoYo..... provided that the bearded one performs ofcourse.

Lol.

Drop our second best opener ever.

[Zamee]

Originally Posted by MR__KHAN__JI Lol. Drop our second best opener ever.

Taufeeq is horrible against spinners. Second best just because there isnt anyone good enough in the competition

[Zaz]

Originally Posted by MR__KHAN__JI Lol. Drop our second best opener ever.

Lol at u if u think just because of his avge taufeeq is our second best opener ever

Stop insulting the likes of majid khan and hanif mohammed

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Originally Posted by Zaz Lol at u if u think just because of his avge taufeeq is our second best opener ever Stop insulting the likes of majid khan and hanif mohammed

Zaz.... have you not got used to my exaggerations to make a point...

It is arguable who was our best opener after .

What is clear is that taufeeq is one of the very few who can make a case.

That in itself should be evidence enough that we cant kick him out.

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Originally Posted by Zamee Taufeeq is horrible against spinners. Second best just because there isnt anyone good enough in the competition

Good bad or Ugly against spinners.

His record as a Pak opener deserves respect. Its shameful asking for his withdrawal.

[Zaz]

Originally Posted by MR__KHAN__JI Zaz.... have you not got used to my exaggerations to make a point... It is arguable who was our best opener after . What is clear is that taufeeq is one of the very few who can make a case. That in itself should be evidence enough that we cant kick him out.

Again we disagree, no way can taufeeqs name be mentioned with the likes of anwar, majid and the original little master

Anybody who does is simply doolally, If taufeeq was to finish his career today he wouldnt get a second thought as one of our great openers

Taufeeq has to do a lot lot more to even be in a similar league to these guys

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Originally Posted by Zaz Again we disagree, no way can taufeeqs name be mentioned with the likes of anwar, majid and the original little master Anybody who does is simply doolally, If taufeeq was to finish his career today he wouldnt get a second thought as one of our great openers Taufeeq has to do a lot lot more to even be in a similar league to these guys

I said he could make a case.. I didnt say he would win....

Still enough to make the same conclusion.

[Zaz]

Originally Posted by MR__KHAN__JI I said he could make a case.. I didnt say he would win.... Still enough to make the same conclusion.

He wouldnt even make a case mate! These guys are pakistani legends, taufeeq isnt

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Originally Posted by Zaz He wouldnt even make a case mate! These guys are pakistani legends, taufeeq isnt

He has a case.

Just not a strong one. There is no point arguing as its a moot point.


The relevant point is that Taufeeq is one of the few batsmen that have average close to 40 as an opener.

It's not good to throw that away.

[Pete Rose]

Originally Posted by Zaz Again we disagree, no way can taufeeqs name be mentioned with the likes of anwar, majid and the original little master Anybody who does is simply doolally, If taufeeq was to finish his career today he wouldnt get a second thought as one of our great openers Taufeeq has to do a lot lot more to even be in a similar league to these guys

Sorry did I muss something? Since Anwar retired have we been producing the second coming of Lara, Greenidge, and Haynes?
Taufeeq is best of the lot after Anwar. It's scandalous that we have reselecting garbage like butt and farhat in his place in tests.
Anwar as great as he was was mediocre against South Africa. Taufeeq was head and shoulders above him against the same opponent. Does that make Taufeeq superior to Anwar? Not at all. But to not have him in the test team is equally laughable.

[DRS]

I believe that seniors play important role in the performance of juniors players, influences can be guessed after looking at their averages with them and without them.

[Pete Rose]

Originally Posted by DRS I believe that seniors play important role in the performance of juniors players, influences can be guessed after looking at their averages with them and without them.

It is usually hoped that the juniors are not perpetual infants, so that when seniors retire, the juniors take over.

[Zaz]

Originally Posted by Pete Rose Sorry did I muss something? Since Anwar retired have we been producing the second coming of Lara, Greenidge, and Haynes? Taufeeq is best of the lot after Anwar. It's scandalous that we have reselecting garbage like butt and farhat in his place in tests. Anwar as great as he was was mediocre against South Africa. Taufeeq was head and shoulders above him against the same opponent. Does that make Taufeeq superior to Anwar? Not at all. But to not have him in the test team is equally laughable.

I never said taufeeq shouldnt be in the team, he should be based on hows he performed since his comeback

all im doing is refuting mr khan jis way over ambitious point that taufeeq is arguably our 2nd best opener ever

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Originally Posted by Zaz I never said taufeeq shouldnt be in the team, he should be based on hows he performed since his comeback all im doing is refuting mr khan jis way over ambitious point that taufeeq is arguably our 2nd best opener ever

Arguably he is... but in my opinion he isn't.

Glad you agree he should be in the team.

[Zamee]

Originally Posted by MR__KHAN__JI Good bad or Ugly against spinners. His record as a Pak opener deserves respect. Its shameful asking for his withdrawal.

Well it was shameful to see him getting bowled like a tailender against Swann aswell

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Originally Posted by Zamee Well it was shameful to see him getting bowled like a tailender against Swann aswell

He won't be the first or the last.