India and Pakistan (nothing offensive)

[Daniyal99]

I know that our countries don't have the best of relationship, but as I am from Punjab region of Pakistan how is our relationship with India, compared to Karachi etc.? And why do you think it's different in other countries, Indians and Pakistanis get along just fine, like my dad goes to the Park and sits next to Sikh people and they get on just fine, so why is this different in Pakistan

[Down2Earth]

punjab and karachi are both in pakistan...

and you need to ask your dad why pakistan and india hate each other

[Bilal7]

Google it.

[Inswinger]

I'm assuming the 99 in your username is the year of birth?

[Lachrymose]

I think the hatred between the people from both nations is much worse within Pakistan and India than it is in foreign lands.

[Bilal7]

Originally Posted by Inswinger I'm assuming the 99 in your username is the year of birth?

Yeah, he's 13.

[Senman]

Originally Posted by Daniyal99 I know that our countries don't have the best of relationship, but as I am from Punjab region of Pakistan how is our relationship with India, compared to Karachi etc.? And why do you think it's different in other countries, Indians and Pakistanis get along just fine, like my dad goes to the Park and sits next to Sikh people and they get on just fine, so why is this different in Pakistan

Its very basic calculation really. In foreign lands you have no threats of being attacked by Pakistani if you are a Indian or by Indian if you are a Pakistani. The politicians of both countries have no effect if you are in foreign lands and so as the intelligence agencies non-state actors. Simply put the chance of annihilation made us vary of each other than anything else.

A no-war pact will reduce this war mongering greatly but that is a long-shot from reality as of now.

[mithun_minhas]

If you ask Indians and Pakistanis, they will give you hundreds of reasons(Political/Religious/Geographical etc). Many have lost their lives and the people who lost their lives can probably never forgive the culprits on both sides of the border.

But for the betterment of both the countries, people have to move on.

As a kid growing up in India, we used to hear some scary things about Pakistan. Nobody knows what the actual truth is. But whenever a discussion about Pak comes up(during cricket matches) ,we always heard that you cannot trust them and they are backstabbers, they cheat and are against Hindus etc etc... A generation of kids have been brought up where kids hear about bad stuff about Pakistan as a nation. Good thing was that we were never taught to hate Pak in our academics nor by our teachers. We were taught about Pak just like we were taught about Nepal or Bangladesh or Srilanka.

As I grew older and finally moved to USA where I got to interact with people from other countries including Pak, I knew that people are the same wherever they come from. They really do not have much hatred for any country. We do find some occasional jerks, but most people are worried about their families, their job. Looking at those things, we get a feeling that life is too short to hate some unknown people from your neighboring country who are basically the same people but just happened to be on the other side of the border.

[Couch Cricketer]

It's because India and Pakistan are contrived nations and to keep unity among provinces and states. They have to make people believe it's us against them. They needed something for people to unite after the British were forced out.
During partition some people took the opportunity to settle their personal feuds which escalated into large number of atrocities committed on both sides. And the wounds have still not healed and are unlikely to heal as long as Kashmir and other such issues are not solved as they keep scratching those wounds. Outside India and Pakistan we are no longer under the barrage of propaganda or constant news of each others countries wrongs against each other

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2

[Bilal7]

Originally Posted by mithun_minhas If you ask Indians and Pakistanis, they will give you hundreds of reasons(Political/Religious/Geographical etc). Many have lost their lives and the people who lost their lives can probably never forgive the culprits on both sides of the border. But for the betterment of both the countries, people have to move on. As a kid growing up in India, we used to hear some scary things about Pakistan. Nobody knows what the actual truth is. But whenever a discussion about Pak comes up(during cricket matches) ,we always heard that you cannot trust them and they are backstabbers, they cheat and are against Hindus etc etc... A generation of kids have been brought up where kids hear about bad stuff about Pakistan as a nation. Good thing was that we were never taught to hate Pak in our academics nor by our teachers. We were taught about Pak just like we were taught about Nepal or Bangladesh or Srilanka. As I grew older and finally moved to USA where I got to interact with people from other countries including Pak, I knew that people are the same wherever they come from. They really do not have much hatred for any country. We do find some occasional jerks, but most people are worried about their families, their job. Looking at those things, we get a feeling that life is too short to hate some unknown people from your neighboring country who are basically the same people but just happened to be on the other side of the border.

Great Post

[Looney]

2 countries with too many similarities for their own liking .

[Lachrymose]

Originally Posted by mithun_minhas If you ask Indians and Pakistanis, they will give you hundreds of reasons(Political/Religious/Geographical etc). Many have lost their lives and the people who lost their lives can probably never forgive the culprits on both sides of the border. But for the betterment of both the countries, people have to move on. As a kid growing up in India, we used to hear some scary things about Pakistan. Nobody knows what the actual truth is. But whenever a discussion about Pak comes up(during cricket matches) ,we always heard that you cannot trust them and they are backstabbers, they cheat and are against Hindus etc etc... A generation of kids have been brought up where kids hear about bad stuff about Pakistan as a nation. Good thing was that we were never taught to hate Pak in our academics nor by our teachers. We were taught about Pak just like we were taught about Nepal or Bangladesh or Srilanka. As I grew older and finally moved to USA where I got to interact with people from other countries including Pak, I knew that people are the same wherever they come from. They really do not have much hatred for any country. We do find some occasional jerks, but most people are worried about their families, their job. Looking at those things, we get a feeling that life is too short to hate some unknown people from your neighboring country who are basically the same people but just happened to be on the other side of the border.

Great post, and definitely agree with the highlighted part!

[freelance_cricketer]

Property dispute.



Do you have a chacha?

[vcool80]

Indian communities stay away from Pakistan/North African/Afghan/Arab people. This is general orthodox Hindus IMO.

[Maximas]

Originally Posted by Inswinger I'm assuming the 99 in your username is the year of birth?

yep.. new generation view is very different now with olders & foreigners. Victim generation is past. Mistrust is more suitable word relating Ind-Pak then Hatred atm & its changing. In 12-15yrs, Hindu-Muslim conflicts in this region wont matter much but other contraints like cultural relativism, Pragmatic ethics etc will be in count, as Indians (mainly hindus) are getting rapidly effected by turing atheistic materialism then Pakistanis.

[mithun_minhas]

Originally Posted by Maximas yep.. new generation view is very different now with olders & foreigners. Victim generation is past. Mistrust is more suitable word relating Ind-Pak then Hatred atm & its changing. In 12-15yrs, Hindu-Muslim conflicts in this region wont matter much but other contraints like cultural relativism, Pragmatic ethics etc will be in count, as Indians (mainly hindus) are getting rapidly effected by turing atheistic materialism then Pakistanis.

I agree to that. Many Hindus I know are either Athiestic or extremely liberal in their views on religion even though they come from traditional families. Even on PP, looks like a lot of Indian PP'ers are not religious at all.

[Namak_Halaal]

Originally Posted by mithun_minhas I agree to that. Many Hindus I know are either Athiestic or extremely liberal in their views on religion even though they come from traditional families. Even on PP, looks like a lot of Indian PP'ers are not religious at all.

Well then they cannot be Hindus in the first place.

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Originally Posted by mithun_minhas I agree to that. Many Hindus I know are either Athiestic or extremely liberal in their views on religion even though they come from traditional families. Even on PP, looks like a lot of Indian PP'ers are not religious at all.

or they don't give their real views. Most Indians seem to appear very liberal on the internet but the reality seems different in India itself. There is an Indian on the family honour UK thread for example who has taken a very high moral ground on women's rights yet many Indian women in the UK complain about the misogyny in the Indian family structure.

See Gurinder Chadha's films such as Bend it like Beckham for example.

[Cpt. Rishwat]

On the subject itself, I think from the Pakistan point of view, while the military holds sway, India will always be presented as The Big Threat. Because peace will undermine the army's very reason for existence on the scale it is now.

[Senman]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat or they don't give their real views. Most Indians seem to appear very liberal on the internet but the reality seems different in India itself. There is an Indian on the family honour UK thread for example who has taken a very high moral ground on women's rights yet many Indian women in the UK complain about the misogyny in the Indian family structure. See Gurinder Chadha's films such as Bend it like Beckham for example.

That is culture, it has nothing to do with religion. In India generally North is more liberal while down south is very conservative but again it depends on the family you are born in to.


I don't think a religious person will call himself atheist.

[velu]

Originally Posted by Senman That is culture, it has nothing to do with religion. In India generally North is more liberal while down south is very conservative but again it depends on the family you are born in to.

and exact opposite when comes to religion..
northies are more religious than southees

[Senman]

Originally Posted by velu and exact opposite when comes to religion.. northies are more religious than southees

Yes very true. As far as Tamil Nadu is concerned more credit should go to Erode Venkata Ramasamy (Thanthai Periyar) great revolutionary, we owe him a lot, the main reason for southees(TN in particular) liberal views on religion.

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Originally Posted by Senman That is culture, it has nothing to do with religion. In India generally North is more liberal while down south is very conservative but again it depends on the family you are born in to. I don't think a religious person will call himself atheist.

Whether you want to call it culture or religion the net result is the same. India is still a very repressed place to be a woman and probably not much different to Pakistan in reality as opposed to the internet.

[Senman]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat Whether you want to call it culture or religion the net result is the same. India is still a very repressed place to be a woman and probably not much different to Pakistan in reality as opposed to the internet.

Agreed women liberation in India needs to go a long way but I don't think it is comparable to Pakistan, no offense.

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Originally Posted by Senman Agreed women liberation in India needs to go a long way but I don't think it is comparable to Pakistan, no offense.

Why not? There are plenty of women in Pakistan leading far more liberal lives than the vast majority of women in India. In the big cities there's probably little difference, and I wouldn't be surprised if the poor women who make up the vast majority in India are repressed every bit as much as the poor women in Pakistan.

[Senman]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat Why not? There are plenty of women in Pakistan leading far more liberal lives than the vast majority of women in India. In the big cities there's probably little difference, and I wouldn't be surprised if the poor women who make up the vast majority in India are repressed every bit as much as the poor women in Pakistan.

Dude I cannot give you answer without offending others, since the OP is way-off on what we are posting about I am going to let it slide.

[Maximas]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat Whether you want to call it culture or religion the net result is the same. India is still a very repressed place to be a woman and probably not much different to Pakistan in reality as opposed to the internet.

Abt your women right pov, Allthough I agree, it's very repressed yet for women, but things are chainging rapidly in India. As its turning more liberal society day by day, women are doin well now in education, politics, science, defence, service.. last few years the passing percentage of girls outshine boys in SSC.

But overall moral ground of religion & value for it getting decreased, thats what I wanted to point out. Ind-Pak conflict aint just a hindu-muslim thing anymore.

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Originally Posted by Maximas Abt your women right pov, Allthough I agree, it's very repressed yet for women, but things are chainging rapidly in India. As its turning more liberal society day by day, women are doin well now in education, politics, science, defence, service.. last few years the passing percentage of girls outshine boys in SSC. But overall moral ground of religion & value for it getting decreased, thats what I wanted to point out. Ind-Pak conflict aint just a hindu-muslim thing anymore.

I would say the same is true for Pakistan although there are probably more obstacles in that country. But I don't want to take this off topic so I will leave it at that.

[zzebie]

Originally Posted by velu and exact opposite when comes to religion.. northies are more religious than southees

As a southie who grew up in the North, in general i found Southies to be much more religious than north indians. Tamilnadu, might be an exception. Cant speak for TN,as i never lived there.

[pakistanalltheway]

Haha Daniyal always starts of threads innocently and they turn into huge debates he probably doesn't understand .

[Daniyal99]

Originally Posted by pakistanalltheway Haha Daniyal always starts of threads innocently and they turn into huge debates he probably doesn't understand .

Yeah lol

[akheR]

Is the "religiousness rate" really divided in North-South ? A friend told me that, ironically, whereas Sikh Jatts are the most proud of their religion, their neighbouring Hindu Jatts from Haryana are, on the opposite, known to be quite secular (he's himself a Jatt, from Rajasthan, and has a caste-centric view over a religious or culture-centric.)

I guess it has more to do with the Hindu renaissance movements of the 19th century which, inspired by the British model (in terms of social values, education, ...) made the Hindus from some areas quite liberal : in case of North India/Pakistan, Arya Samaj "enlightened" the Hindus, whereas the Sikhs and Muslims didn't really have such figures to look at for their socio-economic uplifting, and therefore their ethic change (Sir Syed Ahmed Khan's philosophy was not practical, limited to the Islamic élite of Aligarh, Delhi and surrounding.)

You also had the Brahmo Samaj in West Bengal, Prarthana Samaj in Maharashtra, etc
No wonder that Bengalis, even today, are seen as some kind of "intellectuals" in India (I think ahead of Tamils ? Who are AFAIK quite secular too), as the said Hindu renaissance movements were mainly based in West Bengal (the Tagores & co) - Satyajit Ray probably wouldn't have seen light in Punjab or Bihar, for these reasons.

So I'd say it has more to do with where such sociological movements took place than geography per se (even if they penetrated more in the southern parts of the SC), and I'm sure that you'd find more "religious" chaps in Orissa than Haryana.

[shan]

Originally Posted by Senman Agreed women liberation in India needs to go a long way but I don't think it is comparable to Pakistan, no offense.

You cant say this with stright face because huge numbers of baby girls get killed after or before birth in India. Huge numbers of girls doesnt even grow up because parents want boys. Even in Pakistan rural areas they prefer boys but they dont go extra mile to kill baby girls.

[pakistanalltheway]

And the match has been lit .............

[LethalSami]

Originally Posted by shan You cant say this with stright face because huge numbers of baby girls killed in India. Huge numbers of girls doesnt even grow up because parents want boys. Even in Pakistan rural areas the mindset is the same but they dont go extra mile and kill them.

+1

well those female fetuses rights were never abused since they don't have any

this is the World we live in.....where abortion is legalized......so murdering a unborn child = no harm done/rights abused

[Daniyal99]

Originally Posted by pakistanalltheway And the match has been lit .............

Hate it when this happens

[Senman]

Originally Posted by shan You cant say this with stright face because huge numbers of baby girls get killed after or before birth in India. Huge numbers of girls doesnt even grow up because parents want boys. Even in Pakistan rural areas they prefer boys but they dont go extra mile to kill baby girls.

As I said it is happening, India has to go long way before women are liberated. Parents preference for boys are well known and documented.I don't want want to defend a social evil. So if you think Pakistani's are better off than that is good.

[Senman]

Originally Posted by LethalSami +1 well those female fetuses rights were never abused since they don't have any this is the World we live in.....where abortion is legalized......so murdering a unborn child = no harm done/rights abused

Abortion is not the problem abortion based on preference for boy child is.

[IgnitedMind]

I think the young India is very liberal in thought....but India as a whole is very conservative. that is the reason why there is a lot of difference between things that happen in real India and the Indians in the internet mostly dominated by young people....but as these young people become adults...then we cqn see a lot of change. There is a very evident difference in thought betwee the parents and teenage/young kids..especially in towns and cities....thse same with religion...young Indians especially hindus are not religious too....

I think like in many othet things...due to sheer size of the population..such varied upbringings and financial conditions....for the next 50 yrs...there will be rich India..and a poor India....a liberal India....a conservative India.........a India where women are progressing...a India where female infantiscide happens at an allarming rate....so I think it is important for people of India especially who are from the better part to recognize the sad things that are still very prevelent and work on it. both go hand in hand..and also important for Non-Indians to not generalize a population of 1.2 billion....Huge number of well to do Indians.. upper and middle class who are huge in numbers by themselves will struggle to proclaim India as they are in..and as they to see to the rest of wold...with equally prevelent poverty/conservative extremist thinking....It is important for India to improve the condiions...things are improving..but sheer size of the population make it impossible for rapid growth...and corruption does not help either...but some good steps are being taken by NGO's and govt(sometimes)

[Senman]

Originally Posted by navroks123 I think the young India is very liberal in thought....but India as a whole is very conservative. that is the reason why there is a lot of difference between things that happen in real India and the Indians in the internet mostly dominated by young people....but as these young people become adults...then we cqn see a lot of change. There is a very evident difference in thought betwee the parents and teenage/young kids..especially in towns and cities....thse same with religion...young Indians especially hindus are not religious too.... I think like in many othet things...due to sheer size of the population..such varied upbringings and financial conditions....for the next 50 yrs...there will be rich India..and a poor India....a liberal India....a conservative India.........a India where women are progressing...a India where female infantiscide happens at an allarming rate....so I think it is important for people of India especially who are from the better part to recognize the sad things that are still very prevelent and work on it. both go hand in hand..and also important for Non-Indians to not generalize a population of 1.2 billion....Huge number of well to do Indians.. upper and middle class who are huge in numbers by themselves will struggle to proclaim India as they are in..and as they to see to the rest of wold...with equally prevelent poverty/conservative extremist thinking....It is important for India to improve the condiions...things are improving..but sheer size of the population make it impossible for rapid growth...and corruption does not help either...but some good steps are being taken by NGO's and govt(sometimes)

Again superb post navroks123.

[par]

Originally Posted by zzebie As a southie who grew up in the North, in general i found Southies to be much more religious than north indians. Tamilnadu, might be an exception. Cant speak for TN,as i never lived there.

I don't think there is any difference in religious level of Tamil Nadu with other states. But a party, which said there is no God, managed to come to power here.

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Originally Posted by navroks123 I think the young India is very liberal in thought....but India as a whole is very conservative. that is the reason why there is a lot of difference between things that happen in real India and the Indians in the internet mostly dominated by young people....

Again, this is very similar in Pakistan. The main difference being that Pakistani younger generation would probably still have some limits and will probably choose more carefully which aspects of modern life they will adopt.

[Sufi]

India-Pakistan friendship, lol that's a dream and far from reality.

Believe it or not, but there are millions of Indian Hindus out there who want your country (Pakistan) wiped off the planet, and you (wiped off in the process too).

This may sound mean or cruel but it's the cold hard truth.

Go on any Indian defence forum and you'll be able to see the hatred they have for Pakistanis. They're also very immature in their discussions and will refer to Pakistanis as "Porkis" even in their formal discussions. These people have no respect for Pakistan as a country and for the Pakistani people. I went to the forums with a positive intention and noticed that to my surprise, even the moderators were immature and racist.

However, if you go on a Pakistan defence forum or pakpassion.net you'll see that the people here are very welcoming and warm. Indians are free to post here and discussions are done in an educated manner.

Basically, to sum things up, the reason why Pakistanis and Indians abroad are living peacefully and have friendships is because there is the meaning of equality and racial equity here. People don't stereotype and we are all brought up that everyone around us are peace loving people. Also there isn't an irrational fear of being attacked, or being prosecuted by your neighboring country.

The situation is much different in Pakistan or India. There are radical groups in both countries, people trying to stir up hatred, and even intelligence agencies working together to destabilize the regions of both countries (More so India trying to destabilize Pakistan) Do you know how much the Indian media reports on Pakistan, and if you look at it vice versa, Pakistanis barely report on Indian issues - we're concerned for ourselves not others. The cold hard truth is that peace will never be an option between Pakistan and India, and the least we should be doing is rambling on about this issue.

Hindus from India have intense fear and hatred for Pakistan and this is evident in not only their online community forums, but also through their media and the many radical groups that exist in their country.

Peace among Pakistanis & Indians living abroad is definitely possible (and already exists) in the West.
But Peace among Pakistanis & Indians at home is definitely not a possibility, given the long history of issues and the history of rivalry both countries have had. Both countries have a habit for blaming each other with issues such as terrorism and destabilization and that has been evident in the past decade.

As Pakistanis, we should be open minded at all times and despite what Indian Hindus think of us, we should always be willing to lend a hand to them and be respectful towards them. Maybe one day, that will change their attitude and minds towards us. If not, at least we have nuclear weapons and an army behind our back, if they try anything sneaky.

[akheR]

^^word.

Interesting avatar BTW.

[IgnitedMind]

Originally Posted by Sufi India-Pakistan friendship, lol that's a dream and far from reality. Believe it or not, but there are millions of Indian Hindus out there who want your country (Pakistan) wiped off the planet, and you (wiped off in the process too). This may sound mean or cruel but it's the cold hard truth. Go on any Indian defence forum and you'll be able to see the hatred they have for Pakistanis. They're also very immature in their discussions and will refer to Pakistanis as "Porkis" even in their formal discussions. These people have no respect for Pakistan as a country and for the Pakistani people. However, if you go on a Pakistan defence forum or pakpassion.net you'll see that the people here are very welcoming and warm. Indians are free to post here and discussions are done in an educated manner. Basically, to sum things up, the reason why Pakistanis and Indians abroad are living peacefully and have friendships is because there is the meaning of equality and racial equity here. People don't stereotype and we are all brought up that everyone around us are peace loving people. Also there isn't an irrational fear of being attacked, or being prosecuted by your neighboring country. The situation is much different in Pakistan or India. There are radical groups in both countries, people trying to stir up hatred, and even intelligence agencies working together to destabilize the regions of both countries (More so India trying to destabilize Pakistan) The cold hard truth is that peace will never be an option between Pakistan and India, and the least we should be doing is rambling on about this issue. Hindus from India have intense fear and hatred for Pakistan and this is evident in not only their online community forums, but also through their media and the many radical groups that exist in their country.

Sure, an online discussion forum of 100 odd people will be used to generalize a billion people...that 1 is to what???

But I will tell you this, not just hindus..whatever the reason is the majority of Indians..muslim/hindus/sikhs do not like pakistan..and they could not care less about how pakistan is doing!!!.....there is difference between disliking and hating!!!!.....and then there is quite a population which absolutely hate pakistan evident in their discussions.. ...but it is either dislike or hate...and many do not care!!!!!and intense fea?r..not just fear..but intense fear? why ?

[akheR]

^^we would love to not care either if there weren't some on forums like PP.

[IgnitedMind]

^^^

I am sure many people in pakistan do not care about how india is doing either...but since we are on forums..people talk about each other..and hate each other which just comes innately to us against each other....

But Indians and pakistanis who have never met each other can only hate each other...once they meet..people will realize how similar we are...mostly.....

[Centurion]

Originally Posted by Sufi Believe it or not, but there are millions of Indian Hindus out there who want your country (Pakistan) wiped off the planet, and you (wiped off in the process too). This may sound mean or cruel but it's the cold hard truth. Go on any Indian defence forum and you'll be able to see the hatred they have for Pakistanis.

You cannot base your opinion of millions of Indians based on what you read on Indian defence forums. Such forums will obviously be dominated by deluded Hindu Nationalists and Akhand Bharatis who will be rabidly anti-Pakistan in their views and talk of conquering neighbouring countries. Funny thing is that they'd probably be scared to shoo a cat in real life.

[RWAC]

Originally Posted by Sufi India-Pakistan friendship, lol that's a dream and far from reality. Believe it or not, but there are millions of Indian Hindus out there who want your country (Pakistan) wiped off the planet, and you (wiped off in the process too). This may sound mean or cruel but it's the cold hard truth. Go on any Indian defence forum and you'll be able to see the hatred they have for Pakistanis. They're also very immature in their discussions and will refer to Pakistanis as "Porkis" even in their formal discussions. These people have no respect for Pakistan as a country and for the Pakistani people. I went to the forums with a positive intention and noticed that to my surprise, even the moderators were immature and racist. However, if you go on a Pakistan defence forum or pakpassion.net you'll see that the people here are very welcoming and warm. Indians are free to post here and discussions are done in an educated manner. Basically, to sum things up, the reason why Pakistanis and Indians abroad are living peacefully and have friendships is because there is the meaning of equality and racial equity here. People don't stereotype and we are all brought up that everyone around us are peace loving people. Also there isn't an irrational fear of being attacked, or being prosecuted by your neighboring country. The situation is much different in Pakistan or India. There are radical groups in both countries, people trying to stir up hatred, and even intelligence agencies working together to destabilize the regions of both countries (More so India trying to destabilize Pakistan) Do you know how much the Indian media reports on Pakistan, and if you look at it vice versa, Pakistanis barely report on Indian issues - we're concerned for ourselves not others. The cold hard truth is that peace will never be an option between Pakistan and India, and the least we should be doing is rambling on about this issue. Hindus from India have intense fear and hatred for Pakistan and this is evident in not only their online community forums, but also through their media and the many radical groups that exist in their country. Peace among Pakistanis & Indians living abroad is definitely possible (and already exists) in the West. But Peace among Pakistanis & Indians at home is definitely not a possibility, given the long history of issues and the history of rivalry both countries have had. Both countries have a habit for blaming each other with issues such as terrorism and destabilization and that has been evident in the past decade. As Pakistanis, we should be open minded at all times and despite what Indian Hindus think of us, we should always be willing to lend a hand to them and be respectful towards them. Maybe one day, that will change their attitude and minds towards us. If not, at least we have nuclear weapons and an army behind our back, if they try anything sneaky.

Lol I'm shivering from fear. No intense fear. Bahahhaa

[Sufi]

Originally Posted by RWAC Lol I'm shivering from fear. No intense fear. Bahahhaa

yeah i'm sure you felt all safe and sound during the 2008 Mumbai Attacks

[Sufi]

Originally Posted by Centurion You cannot base your opinion of millions of Indians based on what you read on Indian defence forums. Such forums will obviously be dominated by deluded Hindu Nationalists and Akhand Bharatis who will be rabidly anti-Pakistan in their views and talk of conquering neighbouring countries. Funny thing is that they'd probably be scared to shoo a cat in real life.

I guess, because it's the internet?

People can say whatever they want without being questioned for it/there is a feeling of anonymity.

[RWAC]

Originally Posted by Sufi yeah i'm sure you felt all safe and sound during the 2008 Mumbai Attacks

Let's read what you wrote again, shall we?

Hindus from India have intense fear and hatred for Pakistan

Exactly. During the 2008 Mumbai attacks, Hindus all over India were shivering in fear while Indian Muslims, even those living meters within the attacked places, were walking around like it was a normal day.

Nice try to cover your vile. I could break down every single aspect of your post which is covered with veiled hatred, that's not the point of this thread. OP asked why Indians and Pakistanis hate each other. IMO your post is a quite good approximate measure of why. Loaded with crap like "Hindus live in fear of Pakistan", "we Pakistanis should be open minded despite what the Hindus think of us". Exactly - all Pakistanis think are super nice in their attitude towards Hindus despite of what they think of them, and all Hindus think alike about Pakistan. It is exactly this we are "dudh ke dhule" attitude one side adopts for itself that leads to generalizations and hatred. Stop feeding that rot to an impressionable mind.

OP: A good reason why Indians and Pakistanis hate each other is because of the exact post quoted above. A good number of both Indians and Pakistanis have such negative generalizations about each other, which leads them to develop a superiority complex over each other. It's a downward spiral from there.

[Sufi]

Originally Posted by RWAC Let's read what you wrote again, shall we? Exactly. During the 2008 Mumbai attacks, Hindus all over India were shivering in fear while Indian Muslims, even those living meters within the attacked places, were walking around like it was a normal day. Nice try to cover your vile. I could break down every single aspect of your post which is covered with veiled hatred, that's not the point of this thread. OP asked why Indians and Pakistanis hate each other. IMO your post is a quite good approximate measure of why. Loaded with crap like "Hindus live in fear of Pakistan", "we Pakistanis should be open minded despite what the Hindus think of us". Exactly - all Pakistanis think are super nice in their attitude towards Hindus despite of what they think of them, and all Hindus think alike about Pakistan. It is exactly this we are "dudh ke dhule" attitude one side adopts for itself that leads to generalizations and hatred. Stop feeding that rot to an impressionable mind. OP: A good reason why Indians and Pakistanis hate each other is because of the exact post quoted above. A good number of both Indians and Pakistanis have such negative generalizations about each other, which leads them to develop a superiority complex over each other. It's a downward spiral from there.

haha Indian Hindu denying his hatred and fear for pakistan

to the young minded OP, don't believe this guy he is just feeding you propaganda

Radical Hindus shouldn't be considered as allies or friends (I got no problem with Good Hindus)

[Sufi]

Originally Posted by navroks123 ^^^ I am sure many people in pakistan do not care about how india is doing either...but since we are on forums..people talk about each other..and hate each other which just comes innately to us against each other.... But Indians and pakistanis who have never met each other can only hate each other...once they meet..people will realize how similar we are...mostly.....

Good, I respect and support that view.

Now have fun explaining that to the Radical Hindus in your county preaching hatred

[Sufi]

Originally Posted by navroks123 Sure, an online discussion forum of 100 odd people will be used to generalize a billion people...that 1 is to what??? But I will tell you this, not just hindus..whatever the reason is the majority of Indians..muslim/hindus/sikhs do not like pakistan..and they could not care less about how pakistan is doing!!!.....there is difference between disliking and hating!!!!.....and then there is quite a population which absolutely hate pakistan evident in their discussions.. ...but it is either dislike or hate...and many do not care!!!!!and intense fea?r..not just fear..but intense fear? why ?

That explains why Indians love going on Pakistani forums for the main intent of trolling? And your media loves reporting about Pakistani issues? And why is your media so obsessed with ISI?

And the intense fear stems from your radical hindu friends comes from the fact that they're close minded and can't respect the fact that we Pakistanis don't hate you guys and we're here to be friends.

please, why would India have so many of its troops lined up at the Pakistan-India border? you guys want peace but at the same time try to threaten us out of peace?

[Sufi]

Originally Posted by RWAC Nice try to cover your vile. I could break down every single aspect of your post which is covered with veiled hatred, that's not the point of this thread. .

I love Indians, regardless of race, creed or religion. Seriously though.

It's the radical Hindus who don't love me.

[saadibaba]

Originally Posted by RWAC Let's read what you wrote again, shall we? Exactly. During the 2008 Mumbai attacks, Hindus all over India were shivering in fear while Indian Muslims, even those living meters within the attacked places, were walking around like it was a normal day. Nice try to cover your vile. I could break down every single aspect of your post which is covered with veiled hatred, that's not the point of this thread. OP asked why Indians and Pakistanis hate each other. IMO your post is a quite good approximate measure of why. Loaded with crap like "Hindus live in fear of Pakistan", "we Pakistanis should be open minded despite what the Hindus think of us". Exactly - all Pakistanis think are super nice in their attitude towards Hindus despite of what they think of them, and all Hindus think alike about Pakistan. It is exactly this we are "dudh ke dhule" attitude one side adopts for itself that leads to generalizations and hatred. Stop feeding that rot to an impressionable mind. OP: A good reason why Indians and Pakistanis hate each other is because of the exact post quoted above. A good number of both Indians and Pakistanis have such negative generalizations about each other, which leads them to develop a superiority complex over each other. It's a downward spiral from there.

Good post.

[RWAC]

Originally Posted by Sufi India-Pakistan friendship, lol that's a dream and far from reality. Believe it or not, but there are millions of Indian Hindus out there who want your country (Pakistan) wiped off the planet, and you (wiped off in the process too)

Source of your numbers? Or can we say millions of Pakistani Muslims also want to conquer India and convert everybody to Islam. *insert 10 Zaid Hamid videos*

Go on any Indian defence forum and you'll be able to see the hatred they have for Pakistanis. They're also very immature in their discussions and will refer to Pakistanis as "Porkis" even in their formal discussions. These people have no respect for Pakistan as a country and for the Pakistani people. I went to the forums with a positive intention and noticed that to my surprise, even the moderators were immature and racist. However, if you go on a Pakistan defence forum or pakpassion.net you'll see that the people here are very welcoming and warm. Indians are free to post here and discussions are done in an educated manner.

Remember this? http://www.defence.pk/forums/members...u-friends.html

Oh wait...defence.PK must be a troll Indian site since 100% of Pakistanis are all so loving and open in their attitude towards Indians/Hindus.

The situation is much different in Pakistan or India. There are radical groups in both countries, people trying to stir up hatred, and even intelligence agencies working together to destabilize the regions of both countries (More so India trying to destabilize Pakistan)

What's your quantitative metric again? Or did the Pakistani in made you write that? Ask an Indian, he'd say the opposite. Without quantifiable evidence, your and his arguments cancel out.

Do you know how much the Indian media reports on Pakistan, and if you look at it vice versa, Pakistanis barely report on Indian issues - we're concerned for ourselves not others.

So Mubashir Luqman recently did a full program on the internal societal issues of Pakistan. Right.

Hindus from India have intense fear and hatredfor Pakistan and this is evident in not only their online community forums, but also through their media and the many radical groups that exist in their country.

Want the link again to show how much love the Pakistanis have for Hindus?

As Pakistanis, we should be open minded at all times and despite what Indian Hindus think of us, we should always be willing to lend a hand to them and be respectful towards them. Maybe one day, that will change their attitude and minds towards us. If not, at least we have nuclear weapons and an army behind our back, if they try anything sneaky.

Ah yes. The icing on the cake. Pakistanis, as they always have thought history, stay nice and friendly and ever helpful. It's the only the Hindu who hates. And if the Hindu still tries to be sneaky, we've got the nukes for them. None of such discourses are complete without this icing.

[vcool80]

except for culturally closer groups like Punjabi(Indian), most of Indians see Pakistanis as strangers and many of them have bad stereotyping Pakistanis as Extremists and usually stay away from Pakistan/Afghan/Middle Easterners. this is especially true with central,eastern and southern Indians. observe this in other countries. It is actually true that Hindus(Indians irrespective of religion) fear Pakistanis because for most Hindus Pakistanis,Afghans are Gangsta people.

[akheR]

Originally Posted by RWAC Nice try to cover your vile. I could break down every single aspect of your post which is covered with veiled hatred, that's not the point of this thread.

Try the same exercise about PP's Indian posters, you'd see that 90% follow the same path.

[James]

From what I have seen, Indians hate Pakistanis a lot more than the other way round.

[ahamedirshad123]

Originally Posted by James From what I have seen, Indians hate Pakistanis a lot more than the other way round.

1 billion > 160 million

[akheR]

Originally Posted by RWAC Remember this? http://www.defence.pk/forums/members...u-friends.html Oh wait...defence.PK must be a troll Indian site since 100% of Pakistanis are all so loving and open in their attitude towards Indians/Hindus.

Lol why give the example of Defence.PK ? Obviously you'll see the most "ideological" Pakistanis on this forum, why not compare, say, PP to its Indian counterpart (a cricket forum) ? And if I use half of the impoliteness displayed there I'd be banned instantly on PP (for the right reasons.)

And I'm not even talking of one thread, go through the whole website : whereas you give the example of one OP on some defence forum with "Ghaznavi" as login, can't really expect them to pull out a Gandhi, but it's interesting to note that his post was "thanked" by four peoples, whereas in the same thread, that's the answer thanked by 34 lads:

1st: yes, i do have lots and lots of hindu friends that i love 2nd: you sound like a f***in lunatic. 3rd: pakistan has fair amount of hindus and india has a fair amount of muslims, so its not a hindu vs muslim conflict. 4: you are not to decide who is patriotic or not 5th: if having hindu friends makes me unpatriotic, thn fine, im not patriotic at all. 6th: get your head checked, thank you. lastly, i have no words for people like you. allah tum ko hadayat de Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/members...#ixzz1vgl4i3MZ

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members...ml#post2942040

Keep in mind all of that on a defence forum, where you'd expect more of Zaid Hamid-types.

[James]

Originally Posted by ahamedirshad123 1 billion > 160 million

More people in one of the countries is not a justifiable reason for one set of people to hate the other set more.

[IgnitedMind]

James,
I wonder what made you to come to the conclusion. Interested since, you see it from nuetral perspective...

As far as I know, we tend to hate each other equally..

[James]

Meeting a lot of Indians and Pakistanis has led me to my current conclusion.

Bear in mind I emphasise 'from what I have seen', 'up to this point'. I am not saying I am right, just sharing my experience.

Don't get me wrong, we have a lot of white trash in this country who don't like Pakistanis. But Indians seem to hate Pakistanis even more than the English white lower classes.

Meanwhile Pakistanis don't really display any hate towards Indians, they talk of other things.

[Namak_Halaal]

Here is my view.

The border between Pakistan and India is more than just a national divide; it is a division of religion – a unique and excusive border in this world. No matter what one says, the tension, the animosity, the hatred between the two nations all boils down to religion for the simple reason Islam and Hinduism fundamentally oppose each other.

Some claim geo-politics are to blame, it is not. It was India who colluded with the Americans and Israelis to prevent Pakistan from obtaining the bomb when all the while India was testing its warheads in its back garden – such hypocrites. Once Pakistan developed the nuclear bomb India had to rethink its position.

India and Pakistan would be at war if it India wasn’t hesitant; hesitant because India stands to lose much more in the event of a nuclear holocaust. The birth place of Hinduism, the homeland of Hinduism, wiped out – India will not risk it. This is proved by the fact Pakistan has drawn first blood a few times, India has failed to respond.

Now you will find pockets of Indians/Pakistanis who are genuinely friendly with each other, but the reality is, as seen on PP, if the T&Cs removed or suspended, the bona fide views start to flow - "Muslims are Terrorists!", "Pakistan is a terrorist country!" - all based on religion. It's not just on forums; I can provide reams of anecdotal evidence in the UK too.

There will never be peace between two opposing religions, never. One religion considers their God to be sacred, while the other considers the same God to be sacrificial. Yes I have heard the 'there are more Muslims in India' mantra but most of us know how Muslims are treated and perceived in India.

We can pretend we get along, we can pretend we are the same, we can pretend we respect each other, the reality is we shared the same land but it didn't work out. The land was divided because Hindu Nationalists (majority) had other ideas on Muslims (minority), and Jinnah saw right through these right-wing nationalists and created Pakistan.

My paternal and maternal grand parents agreed. They wouldn’t have migrated to Pakistan if they felt they were Indian, and as such, never will I befoul their legacy.

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Originally Posted by James Meeting a lot of Indians and Pakistanis has led me to my current conclusion. Bear in mind I emphasise 'from what I have seen', 'up to this point'. I am not saying I am right, just sharing my experience. Don't get me wrong, we have a lot of white trash in this country who don't like Pakistanis. But Indians seem to hate Pakistanis even more than the English white lower classes.

I wonder if they are just sucking up to you because they expect that's what you want to hear? As you know Pakistanis don't have a great reputation in the UK so it might just be an attempt to disassociate themselves.

Indians are usually friendly enough in my experience, but most people are on a face to face basis. What they are thinking underneath the public facade might be something else altogether.

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Originally Posted by Namak_Halaal Here is my view. There will never be peace between two opposing religions, never. One religion considers their God to be sacred, while the other considers the same God to be sacrificial. Yes I have heard the 'there are more Muslims in India' mantra but most of us know how Muslims are treated and perceived in India. We can pretend we get along, we can pretend we are the same, we can pretend we respect each other, the reality is we shared the same land but it didn't work out. The land was divided because Hindu Nationalists (majority) had other ideas on Muslims (minority), and Jinnah saw right through these right-wing nationalists and created Pakistan.

That's why I strongly believe Pakistan should be a strictly secular country. The level of thinking amongst the religious hierarchy on both sides of the border is barely above the gutter. Let them mind the mosques and temples and leave the business of politics to people who have to live in today's world.

[Namak_Halaal]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat That's why I strongly believe Pakistan should be a strictly secular country. The level of thinking amongst the religious hierarchy on both sides of the border is barely above the gutter. Let them mind the mosques and temples and leave the business of politics to people who have to live in today's world.

India claims to be secular, but not only does Hindu Nationalism represented by the largest opposition party in India, but we hear/read about religious violence every day, so what chance does secularism have in Pakistan?

Whether secular or not, Muslims have more chance assimilating with Christians and Jews, in comparison to Hindus given the fundamental differences in ideology.

While the idea of separating the state from religion is a sound one, the fact is citizens are closer to their religion than politics. Look in the USA, you win the religious vote, you win the presidency, even though religion is separate from the state.

In the end, religion does matter.

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Originally Posted by Namak_Halaal Whether secular or not, Muslims have more chance assimilating with Christians and Jews, in comparison to Hindus given the fundamental differences in ideology. While the idea of separating the state from religion is a sound one, the fact is citizens are closer to their religion than politics. Look in the USA, you win the religious vote, you win the presidency, even though religion is separate from the state. In the end, religion does matter.

In the States religion might be important but the key is that religion is separated from the state as you yourself have acknowledged. So my point stands really.

[Namak_Halaal]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat In the States religion might be important but the key is that religion is separated from the state as you yourself have acknowledged. So my point stands really.

Might be important? Even though The State and Religion are separate, religion is key. It begs the question, why separate the two in first place when in the end religion always matters, because religion is personal, and given religion always matters, Muslims and Hindus will never live in peace regardless of what model of governance you speak of - this was my point to your response.

You call it just above the gutter thinking, I call it reality.

[ElRaja]

i honestly dont hate indians, but i wont deny i enjoy teasing them about anything i can. thats only in the real world though, i dont see any point of cyber teasing indians, you cant see their face when they are getting annoyed on the net, which is half the fun, lols.

however a quick visit to the neighbours cricket forum and you dont need much convincing that a noteworthy chunk of indians dislike pakistanis.

[shan]

Originally Posted by Namak_Halaal Might be important? Even though The State and Religion are separate, religion is key. It begs the question, why separate the two in first place when in the end religion always matters, because religion is personal, and given religion always matters, Muslims and Hindus will never live in peace regardless of what model of governance you speak of - this was my point to your response. You call it just above the gutter thinking, I call it reality.

I dont agree with this at all. Yes there is discrimination Indian muslims face on daily basis but unlike Pakistan where goverment have created law against Muslims Ahmedi because of pressure from Saudi Arabia, Indian constitution consider every one equal.

Being secular is the way forward, doesnt mean Pakistan wont stop being Islamic country. And hindu-muslims not living in peace is hindutva-Zaid hamid like thinking.

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Originally Posted by shan I dont agree with this at all. Yes there is discrimination Indian muslims face on daily basis but unlike Pakistan where goverment have created law against Muslims Ahmedi because of pressure from Saudi Arabia, Indian constitution consider every one equal. Being secular is the way forward, doesnt mean Pakistan wont stop being Islamic country. And hindu-muslims not living in peace is hindutva-Zaid hamid like thinking.

Couldn't agree more. All muslim countries look beyond religion and trade with India, not to mention plenty of other non-muslim countries. What benefit does it bring to stoke up religious hatred other than to Pakistan's military which is then given priority over ordinary citizens.

[Senman]

Originally Posted by shan I dont agree with this at all. Yes there is discrimination Indian muslims face on daily basis but unlike Pakistan where goverment have created law against Muslims Ahmedi because of pressure from Saudi Arabia, Indian constitution consider every one equal. Being secular is the way forward, doesnt mean Pakistan wont stop being Islamic country. And hindu-muslims not living in peace is hindutva-Zaid hamid like thinking.

Didn't expected this but its a great thinking and I fully agree with you.

Secularism doesn't stop one from practicing their religion its just a way to separate Government or ruling institution from religion.

I hope in the near future both countries will move forward and flourish. If we can forgive British there is no reason why we can't move forward from our issues.

[Namak_Halaal]

Originally Posted by ElRaja i honestly dont hate indians, but i wont deny i enjoy teasing them about anything i can. thats only in the real world though, i dont see any point of cyber teasing indians, you cant see their face when they are getting annoyed on the net, which is half the fun, lols. however a quick visit to the neighbours cricket forum and you dont need much convincing that a noteworthy chunk of indians dislike pakistanis.

To me both internet and the real world matter, if the internet didn't matter I wouldn't learn stuff off it.

I have had the same discussions on the net as I have face to face with Indians, the reactions and responses are near identical, except in reality there is a sense of diplomacy while on the internet the responses are more upfront because of anonymity.

Fundamentally though whether on the net or face to face, the views are the same deep down.

[Namak_Halaal]

Originally Posted by shan I dont agree with this at all. Yes there is discrimination Indian muslims face on daily basis but unlike Pakistan where goverment have created law against Muslims Ahmedi because of pressure from Saudi Arabia, Indian constitution consider every one equal. Being secular is the way forward, doesnt mean Pakistan wont stop being Islamic country. And hindu-muslims not living in peace is hindutva-Zaid hamid like thinking.

I say bring it on. Secularism is the way forward, but Secularism doesn’t change the personal connection one has with religion. Secularism doesn't bridge the differences between Islam and Hinduism.

You can live in a secular state, non-secular state, pluralism, totalitarian, authoritarian, dictatorship, communism, democracy; anything you can think of, religion will always be personal and will always matter to the people.

[shan]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat Couldn't agree more. All muslim countries look beyond religion and trade with India, not to mention plenty of other non-muslim countries. What benefit does it bring to stoke up religious hatred other than to Pakistan's military which is then given priority over ordinary citizens.

Infact every other Muslim country was ready to accept India in OIC but pressure from Pakistan meant they didnt get in. Its not like it matter because OIC is useless anyway.

[Namak_Halaal]

Originally Posted by shan Infact every other Muslim country was ready to accept India in OIC but pressure from Pakistan meant they didnt get in. Its not like it matter because OIC is useless anyway.

Why should Pakistan accept India in the OIC when it was India who colluded with USA and Israel to prevent Pakistan from acquiring the bomb?