Illegal Immigrants ....

[Justcrazy]

Folks , you all must all have heard about illegal immigrants.

Now many a times we see that these illegal immigrants in UK / USA / Canada etc come from poor families and have a whole lot of responsibilities back home to take care off.

Many a times they work for very less money , and in tough conditions. For eg : I have seen myself people working for 2.5 pounds / hr in UK ( Manchester area ).

Some people say that they are doing wrong because they are illegal in those countries and they take away the jobs of the local , or bring the wage rate down.

I would like to know your opinion as to what you think.....

They should be allowed to work the way they are doing

Or they should be deported.

Or do you have any other solution to this problem.

[Down2Earth]

should they be above the law because they come from poor families? they're illegals and should be deported unless they claim asylum with a genuine concern.

[Amoeba]

Personally I have no problem with illegal immigrants as long as they don't break other laws. What were deemed desirable economic migrants when the economy requires them become illegal immigrants when the economy doesn't.

Usually immigrants - so called legal or illegal work harder and merely want a bettter life for themselves and their families. Usually an asset financially and culturally to our society.

[Nitin Tomer]

Originally Posted by Amoeba Usually immigrants - so called legal or illegal work harder and merely want a bettter life for themselves and their families. Usually an asset financially and culturally to our society.

Not always. We have a huge number of Bangladeshi illegal immigrants and they create lots of problems. Most of petty crimes in north India can be attributed to them. Nowadays they are rioting against Assam's native tribal and killing them. They have changed the demographic of West Bengal for ever....

[Amoeba]

Originally Posted by Nitin Tomer Not always. We have a huge number of Bangladeshi illegal immigrants and they create lots of problems. Most of petty crimes in north India can be attributed to them. Nowadays they are rioting against Assam's native tribal and killing them. They have changed the demographic of West Bengal for ever....

Do you know that for a fact or merely media reporting?

The media in all countries is prone to blame the country's entire woes on illegal immigrants.....it's called the Daily Mail Syndrome.

[Ibad17]

the government should make less strict rules for the poor countries so they don't try to become illegal entrant.

[Nitin Tomer]

Originally Posted by Amoeba Do you know that for a fact or merely media reporting? The media in all countries is prone to blame the country's entire woes on illegal immigrants.....it's called the Daily Mail Syndrome.

I know these for a fact sir.

[Amoeba]

Originally Posted by Nitin Tomer I know these for a fact sir.

Ok. As you say most of the crimes can be attributed to them. Do you have the numbers and proportion of crimes committed per head?

[Nitin Tomer]

Originally Posted by Amoeba Ok. As you say most of the crimes can be attributed to them. Do you have the numbers and proportion of crimes committed per head?

If one is a resident of NCR (Nation Capital Region - are around Delhi), one would know how involved these illegal immigrants are in crimes. Hardly a day goes when you don't see 2-3 mentions of their crimes.

This is not to say that there aren't hardworking and honest individuals amongst them. Almost 60% of rickshaw-pullers and 80% of maids in NCR are illegal immigrants and they make a honest living. In my home itself, we have a Bangladeshi as house-mail since 8 years and she is very honest - there have been any instance where she has found expensive items lying around and returned.

And what about Assam and West Bengal situation? Everybody knows how many issues have been happening there due to immigrants.

[avidlearner]

@Nitin Tomer - I would say instead of North India, It is the natives of North East India which has suffered the most in terms of Illegal immigrants. Demography of North eastern states like Assam and West Bengal has changed forever, ever since mid 70's. If we have to believe the reports emanating from various news media, we have roughly around 1.5 crores of illegal immigrants in these two states alone (50 lakhs in Assam post 70's).

The riots between native Bodos with a population of less than 5% of the state against the Migrants who form more than 30% of the state is a result of the consistent marginalization of native tribes of Assam (Bodos) for more than 20 years by the successive state Govts (even the ones which claimed to protect the native's rights such as AGP etc) by encouraging illegal migrants for vote-bank politics.

This has been the root cause which has lead to various secessionist movements spreading across the 7 sister states of North East. Only recently that the militancy problems in these areas have started to subside to a certain extent(Thanks to constant development activities by center). But except in the case of Assam which is still reeling under the issue of years of negligence on state's indigenous people by ruling govt, and now they fear their race might be erased off the Assam's history if this kind of influx of immigrants they are having from neighboring states/country.

@Down2Earth - I do agree with your statement, as you have mentioned I am also for allowing immigrants as long as there is genuine concern for their lives by their old state/country (provided they don't cause any law and order situation in the migrating state)

[ElRaja]

the fact is if you live in a country you use its services, its roads, its waste disposal, security, etc, etc. if you are living illegally you use those services but do not contribute towards them since you don't get taxed on cash in hand jobs.

i can understand in some cases people who are super poor being desperate to survive resorting to these means, and to some extent i empathise with them, having said that, ive also come across illegal immigrants who run fairly substantial cash in hand businesses under no specific threat if they go back to their home countries.

now im not even talking of the thousands of women and men who get lured into the prospect of illegal immigration for work, only to find themselves working as slaves, or prostitutes on arrival in the new country.

another problem is that most illegal immigrants make money to send home, so whatever little money they do make rarely goes back into the host economy.

Usually immigrants - so called legal or illegal work harder and merely want a bettter life for themselves and their families. Usually an asset financially and culturally to our society.

everyone wants a better life for their family, does not justify breaking the law, and could you give an example of how illegal immigrants may be a financial (macro economically, as a financial asset to the entire economy) or cultural asset, which legal migrants may not.

all in all, as i said i understand why some people may be driven to desperation and resort to such measures, but it still doesnt make it right.

As far as solutions go, children born and raised in the UK to illegal immigrants should be given the right to remain, and work, but where found, illegal immigrants should be fitted with trackers, asked to leave within a certain period, a year or so, and deported if they do not comply.

[humzy]

let em in.. in a hundred years there will be no boundaries

[Justcrazy]

Originally Posted by Down2Earth should they be above the law because they come from poor families? they're illegals and should be deported unless they claim asylum with a genuine concern.

Brother thanks for your post. No, none should be above laws.

So what do you think , about genuine asylum. What according to you is major concern because many can and in fact are misusing them.

[Justcrazy]

Originally Posted by Amoeba Personally I have no problem with illegal immigrants as long as they don't break other laws. What were deemed desirable economic migrants when the economy requires them become illegal immigrants when the economy doesn't. Usually immigrants - so called legal or illegal work harder and merely want a bettter life for themselves and their families. Usually an asset financially and culturally to our society.

Brother thanks for your post ....

You see we are talking about illegal immigrants here, economic migrants are different.

Illegal immigrants in the context of the thread are those who go on temporary visa and overstay ,,, visas like tourist / student etc. or sometime enter illegally by crossing borders without inspection.

Economic migrants are those people who migrate legally, they qualify by certain parameters set by the government and then go to those particular countries with a particular set of skills.

[Senman]

Economic imbalance/war in this world is the cause of this with no solution whatsoever unless the respective Government cares about its citizens welfare.
If illegal immigration is allowed 90% of the world population will be in USA. Illegal immigrants should be forced out of the respective countries with max force if necessary.

[Justcrazy]

Originally Posted by ElRaja As far as solutions go, children born and raised in the UK to illegal immigrants should be given the right to remain, and work, but where found, illegal immigrants should be fitted with trackers, asked to leave within a certain period, a year or so, and deported if they do not comply.

You are saying that children should be allowed to stay, and what about parents?

Also they should be deported if they do not comply .... comply with what?

[LongHorn]

Originally Posted by Nitin Tomer Not always. We have a huge number of Bangladeshi illegal immigrants and they create lots of problems. Most of petty crimes in north India can be attributed to them. Nowadays they are rioting against Assam's native tribal and killing them. They have changed the demographic of West Bengal for ever....

What you posted is pure BS.

Some Indians have a habit of calling any Muslim Bengali as Bangladeshi.
The ones in Assam are Indian Bengalis , many of whom happen to be Muslims, while others are Hindus. They are not Bangladeshis.
There are Bangladeshi illegal migrants in cities like Mumbai and Delhi; just like there are Indian illegal migrants in Singapore, the Gulf, UK and Europe.

[saeedhk]

Pakistani asylum seekers in Hong Kong.Interesting read.

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_d...d_str=20120518

[ElRaja]

Originally Posted by Justcrazy You are saying that children should be allowed to stay, and what about parents? Also they should be deported if they do not comply .... comply with what?

yes, if someone was born here, grew up here and is above 16 they should be allowed to stay if they want to. the parents would be required to leave.

comply with leaving within their own means within a certain time period. the idea of forced deportation creates its own problems, so everyone who is caught should have a chance to make arrangement and leave within a designated time period.

[Down2Earth]

Originally Posted by Justcrazy Brother thanks for your post. No, none should be above laws. So what do you think , about genuine asylum. What according to you is major concern because many can and in fact are misusing them.

Ahmadi's in pakistan have a genuine concern as they're persecuted daily. Just like the sikhs that were butchered in india and had to move to canada and uk to avoid persecution. Afghan singers and sikhs had to leave afghanistan and were granted asylum by countries like germany because of the threat posed by the taliban.
There are plenty of people who at risk of being killed and they deserve all the help they can get. But I cannot stand those that abuse the system and live off the taxpayers.

And if people think that the really poor ones become illegal immigrants are mistaken as it costs them a few thousand pounds or dollars to reach the country.

[Down2Earth]

Originally Posted by Justcrazy You are saying that children should be allowed to stay, and what about parents? Also they should be deported if they do not comply .... comply with what?

They have a right to a family life but that could be exercised at the country of their origin. Btw, children born to illegal immigrants aren't automatically citizens of that county, only residents. They have to be registered. I think the correct term is that they have to be neutralized

[PIE_CHUCKER]

I suppose ilegal immigrants are not so bad, they cannot claim benefits hence are no burden on the tax payer or the goverment.

They usualy work for themselves, pay there bills, rent, food etc. And in case of medical they have no access to free NHS!!

However the main problem is legal migration. People from Somalia, Afghanistan, Eastern Europe, and other parts of Africa. These lot are the problem, they dont work, have no intention to do so. They have extensive knowledge of the Free Benefit provided by the goverment, claim everything possible, keep having endless children so they can be housed in larger houses. This group is the main problem for us UK Tax Payer!!!!!

Poor Ilegal immigrants just get on with there sorry lives without effecting us!!!

[Down2Earth]

illegal immigrants are a burden on the tax payer because 95% of them destroy their passports and ID which prevents them from being deported as the country doesn't know where to send them... That's when they're provided for until their hearing is heard and they're lost in the system.

[Bilal7]

As long as they're honest and hardworking, they should be supported. If they've gone through all the trouble to immigrate to countries like Canada, its because they want a better future for them and their kids and are willing to work for it.

All those that oppose them should be thankful that they are not in their situation and at the same time should look at things from their point of view.

[Bilal7]

Originally Posted by PIE_CHUCKER I suppose ilegal immigrants are not so bad, they cannot claim benefits hence are no burden on the tax payer or the goverment. They usualy work for themselves, pay there bills, rent, food etc. And in case of medical they have no access to free NHS!! However the main problem is legal migration. People from Somalia, Afghanistan, Eastern Europe, and other parts of Africa. These lot are the problem, they dont work, have no intention to do so. They have extensive knowledge of the Free Benefit provided by the goverment, claim everything possible, keep having endless children so they can be housed in larger houses. This group is the main problem for us UK Tax Payer!!!!! Poor Ilegal immigrants just get on with there sorry lives without effecting us!!!

Quality post.

[Justcrazy]

Originally Posted by ElRaja yes, if someone was born here, grew up here and is above 16 they should be allowed to stay if they want to. the parents would be required to leave. comply with leaving within their own means within a certain time period. the idea of forced deportation creates its own problems, so everyone who is caught should have a chance to make arrangement and leave within a designated time period.

Ok. I got what you are saying. The ones who are born and grew up should be allowed to live there if they wish so , but the parents must leave.

And to the second part I think they are are given time before deported , I mean in detention centers. In most case though if they are allowed to go on bail , and asked to report to detention centers once in a while , most simply abscond.

[Justcrazy]

Originally Posted by Down2Earth illegal immigrants are a burden on the tax payer because 95% of them destroy their passports and ID which prevents them from being deported as the country doesn't know where to send them... That's when they're provided for until their hearing is heard and they're lost in the system.

Yes a valid point , they do destroy there identifications.

[Nitin Tomer]

Originally Posted by LongHorn What you posted is pure BS. Some Indians have a habit of calling any Muslim Bengali as Bangladeshi. The ones in Assam are Indian Bengalis , many of whom happen to be Muslims, while others are Hindus. They are not Bangladeshis. There are Bangladeshi illegal migrants in cities like Mumbai and Delhi; just like there are Indian illegal migrants in Singapore, the Gulf, UK and Europe.

Any proof of what you are saying? Or it was just a case of verbal diarrhea?

[Justcrazy]

Originally Posted by Bilal7 As long as they're honest and hardworking, they should be supported. If they've gone through all the trouble to immigrate to countries like Canada, its because they want a better future for them and their kids and are willing to work for it. All those that oppose them should be thankful that they are not in their situation and at the same time should look at things from their point of view.

Yes brother you are right , if we are in that position we would be also doing almost same, but here it is not about putting ourselves in there shoes. Its about been neutral to both sides and say what should be done in the real world. According to you what is the best solution.

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Originally Posted by Amoeba Do you know that for a fact or merely media reporting? The media in all countries is prone to blame the country's entire woes on illegal immigrants.....it's called the Daily Mail Syndrome.

It's worth mentioning that the press in the UK makes a stink about the influx of any immigrants, I don't think they distinguish that much between legal or illegal.

I am always curious as to what the country would look like in terms of production if immigration was clamped down on harder. Would we still remain competitive in manufacturing or other industries without access to cheap labour?

Personally I'd love to see a crackdown on illegal immigrants if it would shut the news media up. Maybe we could go back to the 70's when we were moaning about trade unions wrecking the economy instead.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by PIE_CHUCKER I suppose ilegal immigrants are not so bad, they cannot claim benefits hence are no burden on the tax payer or the goverment. They usualy work for themselves, pay there bills, rent, food etc. And in case of medical they have no access to free NHS!!

Not strictly correct. They can walk into any A&E waiting room and get free-at-point-of-care service. If they can provide a utility bill then they can get onto a GP's register.

[AFG_Brit]

Originally Posted by PIE_CHUCKER I suppose ilegal immigrants are not so bad, they cannot claim benefits hence are no burden on the tax payer or the goverment. They usualy work for themselves, pay there bills, rent, food etc. And in case of medical they have no access to free NHS!! However the main problem is legal migration. People from Somalia, Afghanistan, Eastern Europe, and other parts of Africa. These lot are the problem, they dont work, have no intention to do so. They have extensive knowledge of the Free Benefit provided by the goverment, claim everything possible, keep having endless children so they can be housed in larger houses. This group is the main problem for us UK Tax Payer!!!!! Poor Ilegal immigrants just get on with there sorry lives without effecting us!!!

i don't see anything correct in this post and yet people call it top post!!

[pakistanalltheway]

It they are illegal deport them or let them claim asylum . Simples

[PIE_CHUCKER]

Originally Posted by AFG_Brit i don't see anything correct in this post and yet people call it top post!!

Thats because you are probably a legal migrant claiming benefits whilst im having to work my back side of to pay my bills and my tax so lazy people like you can wake up at mid day, in a house paid for by the goverment and then go que at local job centre or post office to claim your weekley allowance!!!

And a poor so and so ilegal immigrant is working all day everyday so he can support himself and his family back home!!

Enough said!!!!!

[PIE_CHUCKER]

Originally Posted by Robert Not strictly correct. They can walk into any A&E waiting room and get free-at-point-of-care service. If they can provide a utility bill then they can get onto a GP's register.

How can a illegal person provide a utility bill? They cant!! Its impossible!!

And you cannot go into A&E without your GPs details!!

[AFG_Brit]

Originally Posted by PIE_CHUCKER Thats because you are probably a legal migrant claiming benefits whilst im having to work my back side of to pay my bills and my tax so lazy people like you can wake up at mid day, in a house paid for by the goverment and then go que at local job centre or post office to claim your weekley allowance!!! And a poor so and so ilegal immigrant is working all day everyday so he can support himself and his family back home!! Enough said!!!!!

Again you are wrong. I am a british citizen and a tax payer. However, unlike u i don't run round streets of london shouting " hey i am a tax payer give me a medal" . I suggest you write it on a board and hang it round your neck! I have no problem with people claiming their benefits which they are entitled to. If the state has no problem then who are you? what would you if you became unemployed and have no support from your family? Beg on the streets or go to government and claim your benefits that you are entitled to?

Also, why did u just mention afghans , somalian and eastern europeans? There are thousands of Pakistanis, Indians, bangalis who are doing the same?

If u are so concerned about the tax you pay then don't pay. You are one of those people who give money to charity and then everywhere you see your money spent, you brag about hey " this is my money"!! mate, once you have paid your tax then just chill. You are not going to get it back by moaning on PP!

[AFG_Brit]

Originally Posted by PIE_CHUCKER Thats because you are probably a legal migrant claiming benefits whilst im having to work my back side of to pay my bills and my tax so lazy people like you can wake up at mid day, in a house paid for by the goverment and then go que at local job centre or post office to claim your weekley allowance!!! And a poor so and so ilegal immigrant is working all day everyday so he can support himself and his family back home!! Enough said!!!!!

Sorry if hurt you, didn't know you were an illegal immigrant!!!!

[shahrukh619]

Originally Posted by Amoeba Personally I have no problem with illegal immigrants as long as they don't break other laws. What were deemed desirable economic migrants when the economy requires them become illegal immigrants when the economy doesn't. Usually immigrants - so called legal or illegal work harder and merely want a bettter life for themselves and their families. Usually an asset financially and culturally to our society.

Agree with this..

Always find it funny when many posters here bash and blame everything on illegal immigrants and show hatred towards them.. Need to be careful, who knows in future what could happen to us that could also lead us to this

[PIE_CHUCKER]

Obviously AFG-Brit is benefit claiming refugee!! Hence he is getting touchy about benefits / housing etc.

Usualy its such trate of these people they believe its they given right to FREE everything courtsey of the British Goverment!!

[AFG_Brit]

Originally Posted by PIE_CHUCKER Obviously AFG-Brit is benefit claiming refugee!! Hence he is getting touchy about benefits / housing etc. Usualy its such trate of these people they believe its they given right to FREE everything courtsey of the British Goverment!!

i guess you cannot read. So i am just going to ignore you. why waste my energy with an idiot in ramadhan.

[shahrukh619]

Originally Posted by bilal7 as long as they're honest and hardworking, they should be supported. If they've gone through all the trouble to immigrate to countries like canada, its because they want a better future for them and their kids and are willing to work for it. All those that oppose them should be thankful that they are not in their situation and at the same time should look at things from their point of view.

+1
Also top post by afg brit

[Justcrazy]

Originally Posted by pakistanalltheway It they are illegal deport them or let them claim asylum . Simples

The decisions on asylum seekers takes long time. There also many people misuse that.

[Justcrazy]

Suppose Government allows all the illegal immigrants an opportunity to become Legal residents ( not citizens ) ....... so that they also start paying tax. Do you all think that it will improve the situation any better or will the situation get worse.