Pakistani Pace Cupboard v Australian Pace Cupboard

[Saj]

Seems like the Pakistani cupboard looks rather bare compared to the Australians who have Pattinson, Starc, McDermott Cummins (injured) in their ranks.

Of the aforementioned I'm really looking forward to seeing Pattinson bowlilng.

Whilst the wickets in the UAE probably won't help him a great deal, I'm sure Pattinson will generate some raw pace.

[truthseer]

Originally Posted by Saj Seems like the Pakistani cupboard looks rather bare compared to the Australians who have Pattinson, Starc, McDermott Cummins (injured) in their ranks. Of the aforementioned I'm really looking forward to seeing Pattinson bowlilng. Whilst the wickets in the UAE probably won't help him a great deal, I'm sure Pattinson will generate some raw pace.

Aussies have Mcdermott?

[Saj]

Originally Posted by truthseer Aussies have Mcdermott?

Yes Craig's son, Alistair.

[Stewie]

Cummings regulary bowls over 90mph I think but I dont think Pattinson is right up there.. I could be wrong.

Then again our bowlers are around 85-88 mph so I dont think they are that far behind.

[truthseer]

My assessment is that while the Australians do hold an edge in the pace department, there is talent in Anwar Ali and Sadaf Hussain that could be just as threatening (Plus they're young). We also have Wahab Riaz, if he gets his control right. So it's not all empty.

On the other hand, the Australians looked impotent in England

[Raz]

We don't have anyone who can consistently bowl 150kph. That is a sad and bitter truth that we must accept. Where have all these extreme speedsters gone? Initiatives such as Akhtar's are good and we need more of them.

[giri26]

Alistair seems to have gotten a great start to his FC career. Seems like yet another good prospect for Australia.

[Bullet Drive]

Wahab needs to be in the side. The quickest bowler from Pakistan who on his day will smash any team in the world. We need some aggressive cricketers and Wahab is one of them. Wahab is a match winner.

[Canistani Hero]

Australia after having let go if the (McGrath-Gillespie-Bracken and most recently Lee era) seems to have finally budged from the Tait-Siddle-Bollinger-Hilfenhaus-Harris (Mitchell Johnson is still there but even his place can't be taken for granted anymore) zone and hence forth, allowed raw youngsters like Cummins, Pattinson and Starc, a chance to establish themselves. I firmly believe, Pakistan needs to follow suits. When somebody like Sami gets recalled multiple times it discourage young bowlers and it's not like the talent has dried up. The talent is very much there, it just needs to be groomed. Sadaf, Rahat, Talha, Irfan, Khalil, Ali Imran, even Sohail Khan could establish themselves with time. Wahab Riaz, unfortunately, is too much of a 'hit or miss' for my liking. Junaid seems like a fine prospect, I can easily see him leading Pakistan's attack in the next 12 months.

[chacha kashmiri]

tanvir, cheema, junaid and anwar doesn't instill fear but tanvir's in form, cheema won't give much away, junaid has looked gd and anwar ali will be the suprise package

[Marshland]

I like Siddle. Genuine fire. Hilfy has another fan in me too - absolutely love to see him doing well. Ditto Patto-man.

Pakistan don't seem to have as many young prospects, sorry. Junaid Khan looks good but that's all.

[Jo_Don]

^^if Siddle can get a bit more variation, he'll be a real gun, and not just a trier. The guy clocks 140k+ consistently. He doesn't deserve the role of a workhorse IMO, he's better than that.

[Raz]

Originally Posted by Bullet Drive Wahab needs to be in the side. The quickest bowler from Pakistan who on his day will smash any team in the world. We need some aggressive cricketers and Wahab is one of them. Wahab is a match winner.

He needs to be given the license to attack and go for wickets. Naturally aggressive, has decent pace and that is his weapon that he should be allowed to go nuts with. Played one game against England and then dropped and the same story in the Asia Cup. Needs to be persisted with, although Wahab needs to work on being able to swing the ball too. His wrist position lets him down more often than not.

[Boi]

The likes of Sami, Wahab, Talha and other aggressive pace bowlers will never be successful if they're being led by defensive captains like Misbah. Until we have a captain who knows how to use genuine pace bowlers in an attacking manner we will never produce bowlers who can rip through lineups with sheer pace and aggressive bowling.

The defensive nature of captaincy has plagued us since Inzi, right through to Misbah. We need someone who can get rid of this mentality after Misbah leaves, hopefully we can find a rarity...

[Canistani Hero]

Originally Posted by Boi The likes of Sami, Wahab, Talha and other aggressive pace bowlers will never be successful if they're being led by defensive captains like Misbah. Until we have a captain who knows how to use genuine pace bowlers in an attacking manner we will never produce bowlers who can rip through lineups with sheer pace and aggressive bowling. The defensive nature of captaincy has plagued us since Inzi, right through to Misbah. We need someone who can get rid of this mentality after Misbah leaves, hopefully we can find a rarity...

Do you see somebody within or on the fringes of the Pakistani ranks, who could be groomed as an aggressive captain. I read earlier, a poster here said, Babar Azam, the U19 captain was also rather defensive. Ominous signs here.

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Riaz has been made obselte by the 2 new balls rule. He is also 27 and waquar younis reckons he will never learn to change his wrist position. Personally I think the bowler who would have done the best against us isn't there : McKay is injured

[Down2Earth]

it's easy to compare our weaknesses with their strengths. Why not compare the spinners? uae is the graveyard or fast bowlers

[Random Aussie]

Just had a look at the squad:

Pattinson
Cummins
Hilfy
MJ
Starc

No Siddle or Harris thankfully. The conditions will not suit Cummins, Pattinson or Starc at all so I wouldnt really worry about them. More likely to do the damage are the medium pacers and part time spinners.

[Random Aussie]

But whichever match Cummins and Pattinson play before their obligatory injury will be good to watch.

Should add Pattinson is a terrible ODI bowler anyway.

[Canistani Hero]

Originally Posted by Random Aussie But whichever match Cummins and Pattinson play before their obligatory injury will be good to watch. Should add Pattinson is a terrible ODI bowler anyway.

A little harsh, he's barely had a chance to prove himself consistently.

[Random Aussie]

Originally Posted by Canistani Hero A little harsh, he's barely had a chance to prove himself consistently.

The length he bowls in Test cricket, fast and full - is hittable length in ODI cricket. Without seam or swing it's have a swing time.

[Marshland]

Siddle, Hilfy and Patto are all unproven at one-day level.

And watch Cummins get injured three overs into his first spell in the opener. That's just the way he is.

[OZGOD]

Originally Posted by Canistani Hero A little harsh, he's barely had a chance to prove himself consistently.

End of day it's results that count, not potential or effort. He hasn't delivered. And it doesn't matter if he has the greatest potential in the world if he can't take wickets, whether that be lack of skill or injury or whatever.

[trogger]

Originally Posted by Marshland Siddle, Hilfy and Patto are all unproven at one-day level.

Hopefully it stays that way, 3 year out from the next wc so lets face it oen dayers means almost nothing right now, would rather the bulk of our test attack are saved for tests.

Would be happy if siddle hilf harris and patto play very little limited overs stuff the next 18 months.

[waqar_ahmad]

The major difference is selection policy.

The aussies select and PLAY their young pacers now. The pakistanis keep on going back to the tried and tested oldies. Young bowlers arent even selected, and if they are selected, they dont play asingle game, and are then dropped.

The likes of Gul and Cheema would not be playing in the national team, if they were aussies

[trogger]

Originally Posted by waqar_ahmad The major difference is selection policy. The aussies select and PLAY their young pacers now.

I don't think our team should be getting commended for our handling of young bowlers, cummins for example was given a test debut when they knew he was carrying an injury and he's basically been injured ever since.

Plus you can only play what is there, we seem to have a whole heap of promising young quicks popping up, if pakstan had young guys the caliber of cummins and patto they would play them but you can't play what isn't there.

Pakistan did give amir an early run, just unfortunate for them he valued money more than his country but the fact remains they had a promising young quick and they picked him right away.

[LastLaugh_PK]

You never know with Pakistan, there is always a gem of a bowler round the corner. I am hoping Anwar Ali does really well in the OZ series and makes a name for himself.

Plus Amir is halfway through his ban, a little more patience is required ( not that I support his inclusion in the side right after his ban ends)

Our selectors are to be blamed for the lack of bowling resources too, they send someone as talented as Sadaf Hussian to West Indies, don't give him a game and drop him from the team completely. Then they go on to pick people like Sami again and again.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by waqar_ahmad The major difference is selection policy. The aussies select and PLAY their young pacers now. The pakistanis keep on going back to the tried and tested oldies. Young bowlers arent even selected, and if they are selected, they dont play asingle game, and are then dropped. The likes of Gul and Cheema would not be playing in the national team, if they were aussies

Selection policy in turn depends upon the available talent. The reason Pakistan goes back to tried and tested failures now is because the rest are even worse.

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by trogger I don't think our team should be getting commended for our handling of young bowlers, cummins for example was given a test debut when they knew he was carrying an injury and he's basically been injured ever since. Plus you can only play what is there, we seem to have a whole heap of promising young quicks popping up, if pakstan had young guys the caliber of cummins and patto they would play them but you can't play what isn't there. Pakistan did give amir an early run, just unfortunate for them he valued money more than his country but the fact remains they had a promising young quick and they picked him right away.

When Amir was selected, the selection policy wasnt this horrendous. Young guys were getting picked. Take the example of Faisal Iqbal being selected out of nowhere! Hammad azam is being ignored, when players like malik are making it into the team. That's how bad it is at the moment.

And the most important thing is that YK, who was the captain at that time, wasnt scared of playing youngsters.

Originally Posted by Yuri Selection policy in turn depends upon the available talent. The reason Pakistan goes back to tried and tested failures now is because the rest are even worse.

With pakistani pacers, it's different. Someone gets picked out of nowhere, and lights up the stage. That's just how it is. I know there isnt probably as much talent in the pakistan domestic circuit as there used to be, but it is still not that bad.

Here is an example. Jamshed Ahmed played in the U19 WC a few years back. The guy was swinging the ball both ways at will. Looked a class act. Since that WC 8 years back (I think) he has played just 17 or so domestic games. Why is that? Nowadays the selectors are waiting for bowlers to perform and then get picked. Pakistani way is to see raw talent and then draft it into the team, no matter what their domestic performance. Jamshed Ahmed wll never get selected coz he wont play enough domestic games

[Saqs]

Just reading Canistani and RA's posts - got me thinking that there really are no Australian bowlers that are 'outstanding' at ODI level.

Yes, in Tests certain bowlers have stepped up and taken a more prominent role. And in Tests, they hunt as a pack.

But in the ODI scene, it seems like just a random conglomeration of those bowlers that are still fit from whatever Test series that preceeded the ODIs, or those bowlers who opt out of playing the shorter game, or those bowlers who aren't good enough to get into the Test fitout in the first place.

Nobody really stands out.

Strange.

[Random Aussie]

Originally Posted by Saqib S Just reading Canistani and RA's posts - got me thinking that there really are no Australian bowlers that are 'outstanding' at ODI level. Yes, in Tests certain bowlers have stepped up and taken a more prominent role. And in Tests, they hunt as a pack. But in the ODI scene, it seems like just a random conglomeration of those bowlers that are still fit from whatever Test series that preceeded the ODIs, or those bowlers who opt out of playing the shorter game, or those bowlers who aren't good enough to get into the Test fitout in the first place. Nobody really stands out. Strange.

Yep, thats correct. Clint McKay is really the only guy who is picked as an ODI bowler, the rest tend to be whoever happens to be fit at the time. And it shows.

To a degree, it reflects that a long period of dominance has meant we dont focus on ODI much, all our focus is really on Test cricket at the moment. The philosophy being that if the Test side is good, the ODI side will take care of itself. It's not really working out that way.

Incidentally this is why Brett Lee should have gone after the WC, we just delayed this period of "who the hell are our ODI bowlers" by letting him do a farewell lap.

[trogger]

It's mostly for batsmen at this stage but there also seems to be a trend developing and that is the aussies using one dayers as glorified test cricket rehearsals for new players.

Dangerous game to play as the habit of winning is surely more important than getting people like forrest a taste of international cricket.

[Random Aussie]

Originally Posted by trogger It's mostly for batsmen at this stage but there also seems to be a trend developing and that is the aussies using one dayers as glorified test cricket rehearsals for new players. Dangerous game to play as the habit of winning is surely more important than getting people like forrest a taste of international cricket.

We used to be able to get away with that because the ODI side was so dominant, I dont think we can anymore.

[Saqs]

But the ODI side was so dominant because it was practically the Test side less/add a couple of players.

An interesting conundrum.

[Asif321]

Misbah and whtmore are not in support of wahab
so expect wahab to b out of test and odi for 1 year atleast

[Saj]

7 wickets for the quicks today

1 for the medium pacer Christian.

[saeedhk]

Australians are way ahead of us.

[Osman]

so depressing to see the australian pace duo and then look at pakistans...sohail tanvir is probably even worse than australias medium pace all rounder chrisitan...aizaz cheema is a decent death bowler and that is all....whats worse is that unlike australia we are not giving our youngster junaid khan a chance....would love to see him in a battle with these 2

[Savak]

Aussie bowlers could not have wished for better opposition batsmen to bowl themselves into form. No wonder Sami keeps getting selected, he keeps impressing in the nets.

[Bewal Express]

We dont even have county standard seamers never mind international. Its so depressing to watch.

[Markhor]

The current crop of trundlers are a disgrace to Pakistan's great fast bowling heritage.