Lahore Metro (underground)

[suhaib]

Transit rail’s technical feasibility report: Punjab govt awards contract to MVA Asia

* Technical work on $2b project starts, will be completed by end of May
* 12km from Kalma Chowk to Bhaati Gate will run underground

By Khawaja Naseer

LAHORE: The Punjab government has awarded the contract for carrying out the technical feasibility of the Mass Transit Rail Service (MTRS) in the city to Hong Kong-based construction firm MVA Asia, Punjab government sources told Daily Times on Saturday.

Technical work on the estimated $2 billion project had started, sources said, adding that the under the proposed MTRS plan about 350,000 people would be facilitated daily and that the project would cover 27 square kilometres of the city.

Interestingly, after a lot of discussion on weather Lahore should have an elevated, underground or surface monorail system, consultants were considering an underground system, sources added.

It was also proposed that 12 kilometres of track from Kalma Chowk to Bhaati Gate would run underground, sources said.

The project’s technical study would be completed by the end of May 2006, sources said, adding that the Punjab government had started two transport projects including the Ring Road and MTRS to facilitate Lahoris.

Sources said that besides MVA Asia’s help with the MTRS project, which was being supervised by the Punjab Transport Department, NESPAK was providing technical consultation for the Ring Road project, which was being supervised by the Punjab Communication and Works (C&W) Department.

The Punjab chief minister had asked the Punjab Planning and Development Department to coordinate with the C&W and Transport Departments to avoid technical differences over both projects, sources added.

If the MRTS project was inaugurate by 2007, it would be completed by the end of 2012, sources said. However, they refused to disclose the sources that were funding the MRTS project and consultancy fee.

About 10 foreign countries had bid for the international tender for the MTRS project on April 26, 2005, and the Punjab government’s Consultant Selection Committee announced that Transplan SDN BHD and Min Consultants Private Limited from Malaysia, Hamburg Consult Private Limited from Germany and MVA Hong Kong Limited from Hong Kong had qualified for the final bid.

The selection committee consisted of the transport secretary, engineers and financial officials of the Planning and Development Department, Finance Department and Communication and Works Department.

Government circles have been contemplating a mass transit system for Lahore for a long time. The feasibility report of a light rail transit (LRT) system was made by Japanese development organisation JICA in 1991, when Nawaz Sharif was prime minister. It had proposed a 13-kilometre-long LRT system.

The study was reviewed and updated as part of the World Bank funded ‘Lahore Traffic and Transport Studies’ in 1993.

The cost of the system was estimated at about $400 million, but with better network coverage. In 1995 Japan proposed to finance the original scheme with grants and loans of about $495 million, but the project could not be implemented due to various reasons.

The army-led government also worked on such a project in 2000 and a memorandum of understanding was signed, but the project was dropped again.

“I don’t know exactly why the previous projects were shelved, but the 2000 study was dropped because the other party backed out,” one of the sources said.

[suhaib]

While speaking on the occasion, District Nazim Mian Aamir Mahmood said the chief minister has approved $ 600 million project of underground train system in the provincial metropolis and work on this project would be started soon.

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/jan2...06/metro/l5.htm

[suhaib]

Govt wooing donors to start Mass Transit System

By Babar Dogar

LAHORE: Punjab government has started negotiations with World Bank, Asian Development Bank and other donor agencies to acquire $ 2 billion loans for starting work on 22 km ‘Lahore Mass Rapid Transit System (LMRTS)’ from Shahdara to Kotlakhpat via The Mall.The work will start from 2007 and the officials are expecting that it will be completed till 2012.

President Gen. Pervez Musharraf has appreciated the project during a briefing held recently, the sources informed the News.

The system will operate on the surface from Ravi Bridge to Bhatti Gate while it will operate underground from onward via Lower Mall, The Mall to Kot Lakhpat. The system will have 15 stations and it will facilitate 30,000 people after every one hour.

In this regard a Hong Kong based MVA Asia Company has conducted a comprehensive study on the project and presented its report to the government.

The study has proposed four lines in the city to share the traffic burden. The other three lines starting from Multan Road, Model Town and Wahga will be connected with the main-line and each line will cost the government $ 2 billion.

The study further proposed that the preliminary study and reference for the project will cost the government $ 200 million.

Talking to The News, Chairman Planning and Development Suleman Ghani stated that the provincial government has initially decided to give priority to Shahdara-Kotlakhpat line while remaining three lines will be undertaken after the availability of funds.

He said the government can start work on all the four lines provided the donor agencies agreed to extend the required $ 8 billion loans. He said they had started negotiations with the WB, ADB and other donor agencies for the loans and they were hopeful to get atleast $ 2 billion during the current year to start the project.

He said the government wanted to have overhead ‘Lahore Mass Rapid Transit System’ but the study did not term it viable because of too many turns involved in it.

He further stated that government had started consideration on starting light rail transit system in mid 80s when a Japanese development organisation JICA proposed a 13-km LRT system but the project could not be implemented.

[Raz]

Does Karachi have an underground transport system or is this a first for Pakistan?

[suhaib]

its the first, karachi will be getting a monorail.

[Geordie Ahmed]

Originally Posted by suhaibonline its the first, karachi will be getting a monorail.

cool - lets hope they do it right

[Raz]

Originally Posted by Geordie Ahmed cool - lets hope they do it right

Agreed, it would be great for Pakistan if both Lahore and Karachi could get one!

[isr]

The right way to do it would be to analyse how much of the work could be subcontracted to firms at home. Try to get as much as possible sourced from within Pakistan. Even if this means government assistance in getting some key industries off the ground (steel, etc).

Then, the money you spend on the project itself has a much greater trickle down effect, than if the whole thing was just dumped in the lap of a foreign engineering company. Supplier industries get seeded. An infrastructure is helped to develop.

Get foreign assistance only for those speciality areas for which there is no source of supply in Pakistan, and whose applicability to future projects would be limited (in which case, seeding some nascent companies to fill this void may not be practical).

It'll take longer to do, and cost more (in the short run). But in the long run, thats one great way to develop economic infrastructure.

[Hash]

Karachi was going to get an underground system many years ago but the feasibility study found that the ground was too soft.

[suhaib]

Originally Posted by Hash Karachi was going to get an underground system many years ago but the feasibility study found that the ground was too soft.

just like the people

[lahori]

Originally Posted by suhaibonline just like the people

what is that supposed to mean?

[karachiite]

Originally Posted by isr The right way to do it would be to analyse how much of the work could be subcontracted to firms at home. Try to get as much as possible sourced from within Pakistan. Even if this means government assistance in getting some key industries off the ground (steel, etc). Then, the money you spend on the project itself has a much greater trickle down effect, than if the whole thing was just dumped in the lap of a foreign engineering company. Supplier industries get seeded. An infrastructure is helped to develop. Get foreign assistance only for those speciality areas for which there is no source of supply in Pakistan, and whose applicability to future projects would be limited (in which case, seeding some nascent companies to fill this void may not be practical). It'll take longer to do, and cost more (in the short run). But in the long run, thats one great way to develop economic infrastructure.

The government is looking for foreign aid to develop this project and that aid never comes without any strings attached. This would limit the flexibility with which the government can operate.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by karachiite The government is looking for foreign aid to develop this project and that aid never comes without any strings attached. This would limit the flexibility with which the government can operate.

Projects such as this can never be done without foreign assistance. Thailand has one of the best train systems I have ever seen in my life. If you ever go to Bangkok check out their Sky Train (elevated railway). It is out of this world and I believe most of the funding came from Australia.

[karachiite]

Originally Posted by Hash Projects such as this can never be done without foreign assistance. Thailand has one of the best train systems I have ever seen in my life. If you ever go to Bangkok check out their Sky Train (elevated railway). It is out of this world and I believe most of the funding came from Australia.

Im guessing then that most of the work would have been done by Australian contractors too. Lets hope the proect materialises though, because the average commuter in Lahore wont care less where the money for the train has come from as long as it gets him from A to B safely, quickly, comfortably and affordably.

[suhaib]

no one wil give aid for a project like this and why would they.

the project will have to be private or if build by the goverment then they will need big loans, which i think there doing.

i hope they dont make a shruddy underground like the one in london, its nothing less then a dustbin, its not just full of rubbish and rats but the trains are rusted, they should make something like the ones in asia, hong kong must have the best one.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by suhaibonline no one wil give aid for a project like this and why would they. the project will have to be private or if build by the goverment then they will need big loans, which i think there doing. i hope they dont make a shruddy underground like the one in london, its nothing less then a dustbin, its not just full of rubbish and rats but the trains are rusted, they should make something like the ones in asia, hong kong must have the best one.

The London Underground is a joke. A disgrace in fact. Quite unbelievable when you think that the UK is suppose to be one of the great economies of the world. Though the disadvantage they have is that it is very old.....being one of the first underground systems ever built.

[Asim2Good]

HK does have very good train system called MTR
London underground is worst, dark,dirty, and it's not so wide as well as they are still using old trains.
HK all stations are clean, full of lights, security cameras, different counters to help you out.
I hope if Pak is using HK company to build it, then they buy trains from them as well

[Asim2Good]

Some Pics of HK MTR

[suhaib]

yep the contract has been awarded to a hong kong group, a malaysian group and a german group.

[tahaqureshi]

Malaysian?? interesting

[cornered paktiger]

I hope people will realise they can't ride on the top of tubes like you can on the roof of a train.

[Toony™®]

u cant do much about londons without closing down the network in stages and making the tunnels bigger....it just aint feasable as that will be a massive project lasting decades...without a overground system which is as extensive and frequent as the underground.

The only thing they can do is bring more trains online which just creates congestion.

London needs crossrail to help it move along.

But,, overall considering its age..its good.

All underground railway systems will end up like this eventually with mice and rats too.

[suhaib]

Originally Posted by cornered paktiger I hope people will realise they can't ride on the top of tubes like you can on the roof of a train.

this isnt a bollywood movie.

[Mercenary]

The Mullah types have a new target!!

[Slugger]

why does lahore need a metro? traffic problems are much worse in karachi

[isr]

Originally Posted by cornered paktiger I hope people will realise they can't ride on the top of tubes like you can on the roof of a train.

That would only be a temporary problem. Those who try, won't last long.

Darwinian natural selection in action.

[Hando]

What ever happened to this plan

[Cricketismylife]

Originally Posted by Hando What ever happened to this plan

didnt send the right cut to the right ppl ?

[WithLoveFromCanada]

Originally Posted by Hando What ever happened to this plan

Nawaz sharif came into the plan

[Foozee]

oohhh man.. i got excited about this, thought it was happening now..then i looked at the date of OP..2006 still nothing

[Eagle_Eye]

Originally Posted by suhaib its the first, karachi will be getting a monorail.

I hope its not like the one they built in the Simpsons ....



Where is the money coming from for the Lahore project? Will this be much use for the Lahoris or just a white elephant? I am sure there must be better use for this money somewhere else.

@myself...... Didnt realise the OP date.

[Mohsin]

Originally Posted by suhaib its the first, karachi will be getting a monorail.

From this guy?



But seriously, i thought it was from now/this year...then i saw the date lol

[Tera Gawaandi]

Lahore metro project is moving at very slow pace, it seems our Ludhiana will have Metro much earlier than Lahore. It will cost around Indian Rupee 6,600 Crore (US $ 1.47 billion). Punjab Government cabinet gave its nod for the execution of the metro project, it will be operational by 2014.

Wiki - Ludhiana Metro

Other Tier II cities like Ahmedabad, Jaipur, Lucknow, Nagpur, Pune, Surat will also get metro in next 5 years.

[DesiMunda]

Originally Posted by Tera Gawaandi Lahore metro project is moving at very slow pace, it seems our Ludhiana will have Metro much earlier than Lahore. It will cost around Indian Rupee 6,600 Crore (US $ 1.47 billion). Punjab Government cabinet gave its nod for the execution of the metro project, it will be operational by 2014. Wiki - Ludhiana Metro Other Tier II cities like Ahmedabad, Jaipur, Lucknow, Nagpur, Pune, Surat will also get metro in next 5 years.

Ludhiana has just finished it's Detailed Planning Report so the construction will still take time.
Pune and Lucknow are even further behind. No clue about Surat, most likely it must just be talked about right now. Ahmedabad isn't getting a Metro, as they have the BRTS system. They will only get a "metro-rail" between Ahmedabad and Gandhinagar.

After Delhi, the following cities are the only ones that have actual construction going on:
- Bangalore (Phase I becomes operational in two months)
- Mumbai (Phase I becomes operational in 2012)
- Jaipur (Phase I becomes operational in 2013)
- Hyderabad (just started construction.. Phase I probably 2014)

Modernisation of the ancient Kolkata Metro is also going on. The problem with the Kol Metro currently is that it is run by Indian Railways in the old-fashioned way. Hope they get an autonomous body to deal with it.

Regarding the dates above though, bear in mind that operationalisation of a metro doesn't mean that the construction work is finished. A metro takes a long time to cover the city. The Delhi metro became operational in 2002, but new lines are being constantly added, and it has just finished construction of Phase II. Phase III has started and it will be finished in 2015.

For Pakistani Posters here: I sincerely hope that your cities get a metro, as the subtle social ramifications of students, labourers, office goers, people of different classes riding together in a comfortable air-conditioned environment are really underestimated. I've seen this personally in Delhi, and it does bring a community together.

[Usman]

Well it seemed a stupid idea to begin with anyway. Anyone who is a regular commuter like myself on london underground will tell you that at times, the heat is unbearable. If the temperature outside is around 25 degrees or more, well then underground it will easily feel more like 45 degrees. Even the Jubilee line which is air conditioned feels so very hot on a summers day. Now in Pakistan, where the it can get to 50 degrees, sitting in an underground train would be effectively like sitting in a giant kettle.

[Mohsin]

Originally Posted by Usman Well it seemed a stupid idea to begin with anyway. Anyone who is a regular commuter like myself on london underground will tell you that at times, the heat is unbearable. If the temperature outside is around 25 degrees or more, well then underground it will easily feel more like 45 degrees. Even the Jubilee line which is air conditioned feels so very hot on a summers day. Now in Pakistan, where the it can get to 50 degrees, sitting in an underground train would be effectively like sitting in a giant kettle.

Well the Jubilee isnt that bad actually in terms of heat, maybe its just me...its pretty confortable even on a really hot day.
Met line (the old one's, not the new improved ones) can get pretty hot though (which makes it even more stinky lol!)

[Foozee]

Originally Posted by Usman Well it seemed a stupid idea to begin with anyway. Anyone who is a regular commuter like myself on london underground will tell you that at times, the heat is unbearable. If the temperature outside is around 25 degrees or more, well then underground it will easily feel more like 45 degrees. Even the Jubilee line which is air conditioned feels so very hot on a summers day. Now in Pakistan, where the it can get to 50 degrees, sitting in an underground train would be effectively like sitting in a giant kettle.

hmm.. and what about the people who get crammed into buses.. as if thats any better.. atleast with this it would ease that part out.. plus modernize the lahori infrastructure

[Inswinger]

We've got plenty of underground subways in NY and the heat isn't a problem at all.

[DesiMunda]

Originally Posted by Usman Well it seemed a stupid idea to begin with anyway. Anyone who is a regular commuter like myself on london underground will tell you that at times, the heat is unbearable. If the temperature outside is around 25 degrees or more, well then underground it will easily feel more like 45 degrees. Even the Jubilee line which is air conditioned feels so very hot on a summers day. Now in Pakistan, where the it can get to 50 degrees, sitting in an underground train would be effectively like sitting in a giant kettle.

The London underground uses pretty old coaches. In India, metro systems all use AC coaches, and in fact the AC (along with a hassle free transit) is one of the main draws why the system works in the heat of the subcontinent.

[geo]

Originally Posted by DesiMunda Ludhiana has just finished it's Detailed Planning Report so the construction will still take time. Pune and Lucknow are even further behind. No clue about Surat, most likely it must just be talked about right now. Ahmedabad isn't getting a Metro, as they have the BRTS system. They will only get a "metro-rail" between Ahmedabad and Gandhinagar. After Delhi, the following cities are the only ones that have actual construction going on: - Bangalore (Phase I becomes operational in two months) - Mumbai (Phase I becomes operational in 2012) - Jaipur (Phase I becomes operational in 2013) - Hyderabad (just started construction.. Phase I probably 2014) - Chennai (Construction going on..Phase I opens in mid 2013, it's going good speed considering planning commission approval received only on 2008 April) Modernisation of the ancient Kolkata Metro is also going on. The problem with the Kol Metro currently is that it is run by Indian Railways in the old-fashioned way. Hope they get an autonomous body to deal with it. Regarding the dates above though, bear in mind that operationalisation of a metro doesn't mean that the construction work is finished. A metro takes a long time to cover the city. The Delhi metro became operational in 2002, but new lines are being constantly added, and it has just finished construction of Phase II. Phase III has started and it will be finished in 2015. For Pakistani Posters here: I sincerely hope that your cities get a metro, as the subtle social ramifications of students, labourers, office goers, people of different classes riding together in a comfortable air-conditioned environment are really underestimated. I've seen this personally in Delhi, and it does bring a community together.

Fixed

[Saad Hasan]

Originally Posted by Mohsin From this guy? But seriously, i thought it was from now/this year...then i saw the date lol

"Is there a chance the track could bend, not on your life my hindu friend"....

[Saad Hasan]

Originally Posted by WithLoveFromCanada Nawaz sharif came into the plan

Nah, Mushie and his NRO is more like it...

[DesiMunda]

Originally Posted by geo Fixed

Oops my bad.. Of course Chennai's going well too.

[murphyslaw79]

Originally Posted by Mohsin Well the Jubilee isnt that bad actually in terms of heat, maybe its just me...its pretty confortable even on a really hot day. Met line (the old one's, not the new improved ones) can get pretty hot though (which makes it even more stinky lol!)

Air conditioning on London Underground has proven to be a problem.

The London underground is significantly different from the NY subway, as the NY subway runs just under the roads, therefore the air conditioning has an outlet. You often see smoke coming through the outlets onto the roads.

IN London, the underground is built quiet deep, therefore no outlet has ever been designed for air conditioning smoke to be released properly.

air conditioning is being introduced on the Met line, as a significant portion of it runs overground and even the underground stations (Baker st, Farringdon, Liverpool st and Aldgate) have an easy outlet.

Not sure who said the Jubiliee line is air conditioned. I can only wish it was.

[Vegitto1]

Thank god this project did not go ahead.

Seriously, why would you go for anything other than elevated monorail system.

Do they not know that by using an elevated monorail system, they can mount solar panels/mini-wind turbines on the elevated platforms and this way it would serve a dual purpose and is likely to be less expensive.

They should invest money on improving the sewage system in Lahore

[DesiMunda]

Originally Posted by Vegitto1 Seriously, why would you go for anything other than elevated monorail system.

Depends upon the population of the city. The monorail system is not a "mass transit" system, and can support much fewer people. Some cities use a combination of both where the monorail system acts as a feeder system for the metro system. (They are building both monorail and metro in Mumbai for this purpose).

Regarding elevated systems, you can have an elevated metro system (which is more cost effective) than an underground metro system. Delhi has a mix of underground and elevated metros.

[nish_mate]

Originally Posted by DesiMunda The London underground uses pretty old coaches. In India, metro systems all use AC coaches, and in fact the AC (along with a hassle free transit) is one of the main draws why the system works in the heat of the subcontinent.

Mere bhai, consider the fact that LU was built around the time when having a car on Indian roads was considered a novelty.

LU for all it's faults and probs is one of the better networks running around considering it's age and usage.

Plus offcourse flks get upset over the fares, but for me honestly if you are earning decent London wages the LU fares are not extortionate by any rate.

[PakistanPaindabad]

Lahore underground plan is moving forward. construction is to start soon

[Hando]

Originally Posted by PakistanPaindabad Lahore underground plan is moving forward. construction is to start soon

How do you know?

[Foozee]

Originally Posted by Hando How do you know?

Source: coz Stone Cold Said So.. i guess

[Usman]

Originally Posted by Mohsin Well the Jubilee isnt that bad actually in terms of heat, maybe its just me...its pretty confortable even on a really hot day. Met line (the old one's, not the new improved ones) can get pretty hot though (which makes it even more stinky lol!)

Forget the Met line, try the Bakerloo! Not only is it one of the most cramped, but because it is deeper underground than any other line, it is also the hottest. It actually makes you feel dizzy.

Originally Posted by Foozee hmm.. and what about the people who get crammed into buses.. as if thats any better.. atleast with this it would ease that part out.. plus modernize the lahori infrastructure

Buses operate overground. Therefore, as hot as a cramped bus might me, it is nowhere near the heat levels of something equally as crampt but operating underground.

Originally Posted by Inswinger We've got plenty of underground subways in NY and the heat isn't a problem at all.

Well London underground is ancient. I was in a carriage on the Met line the other day, and I kid you not, it said 'this carriage inspired Stalin to build Russia's own underground system.' That is how old the system is.

Originally Posted by DesiMunda The London underground uses pretty old coaches. In India, metro systems all use AC coaches, and in fact the AC (along with a hassle free transit) is one of the main draws why the system works in the heat of the subcontinent.

Yep as one of the most developed countries in the world, we have an underground system worse than some of the least developed. We are also the most expensive country in Europe for rail travel. Does Pakistan have the budget for a Indian style subway system, quite probably not.

[Runner Up]

Khayali Palawo Thread

[Looney]

lol topi alert

[PakistanPaindabad]

Shahbaz Sharif was in China a couple of months back to sign the deal after having met with interested parties in China and Korea, but yeah here are some of the sources I could find

http://ftpapp.app.com.pk/en_/index.p...37323&Itemid=2

http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrin...3&dt=4/20/2011

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahore_Metro