Analysis: Why does Pathan get wickets? (merged)

[sharuk]

1) I think Pathan is the slowest bowler to get as many wickets as he gets which is interesting

2) His only strength is length. any bowler with that speed can extract swing, just look at tendulkar when he is bowling slow medium, he bowls banana swings

3) The batsmen play him as if he is much quicker and thats where they faulter. they should play him like they would play either kumble or tendulkar

4) He has consistent swing, not late swing not outswing, he only ever inswings the ball into the right hander or in terms of left hander, he outswings, so its a matter of judging the swing and playing hard

5) When do you think he will be found out? Afridi who doesnt care about any bowler has the right idea when playing him: play him like a lollipop bowler, maybe someone who knows someone in Pakistan team or other teams should tell teams to play him aggressively instead of carefully

[cavin420]

just one 2 words lucky bowler!


rana naveed i classed the same early in his career ...used to get wickets even on bad balls......but now rana has mutured into a better thinking bowler whose capable of getting anyone out but before he was a bit like bacha pathan where batters gifted him theirs wickets..........but as for pathan his luck will run out one day !!!

[Miraj101]

He is just lucky to get the wickets that he gets, most of them are gifted to him. Look at the this Straus Wicket 3 feet wide on the off stumps, 120 Kph low bounce delivery, Strauss just gifted his wicket...

[Big Daddy]

1) there was a bowler back in the day who went by the name of larson , check him out
2) whats the point there
3)kumble and sachin and pathan are same kinds of bowlers in ur book ? wow , pathan is a swing bowler, who is at his best first up , after that he is worse then rana .
4)true he has inswing. but if u pitch the ball in the business area , based on the swing he gets , ask salman butt the rest of the story
5)afridi likes the ball pitched at a constant trajactory, at pathans pace bouncers wont hurry up afridi, if pathan bowls it fuller, he gets hammered, if he bowls it short he gets pulled easy. i have yet to see pathan hurry a batter on a pull shot, dont even mention that infamous martin dismissal here

[siimo]

hoggard has been bowling at simlar pace too in the afternoon at nagpur he was in lower 120's most of the time

[Romali_rotti]

Originally Posted by cavin420 just one 2 words lucky bowler! rana naveed i classed the same early in his career ...used to get wickets even on bad balls......but now rana has mutured into a better thinking bowler whose capable of getting anyone out but before he was a bit like bacha pathan where batters gifted him theirs wickets..........but as for pathan his luck will run out one day !!!

WHen did Rana mature into a good bowler? during the india series or the one and only series against eng?

[Blistering Barnacle]

Tired of seeing Pathan bashing here. The boy is a good new ball bowler.

[badxhah]

Originally Posted by Blistering Barnacle Tired of seeing Pathan bashing here. The boy is a good new ball bowler.

i think that line says it all ,,, when it doenst swing ....he becomes a ordinary bowler

[safehands46]

because when you are lefty and swing the ball as much as he does there are bound to be rewards.

[invincible]

He is an intelligent bowler imo ...

the wicket of Alistair Cook just a couple of moments before is the right example ... the ball before the wicket, he bowled a full pitched delivery swinging away from the left hander and the wicket ball had the ball pitched up swinging into the batsman thus grabbing him plumb ...

he plans his decisions very well ... i think he destroyed his own pace for the lateral movement he gets now a days ... he used to get speeds of 135 - 140 but now hardly crosses 132 ...

[cavin420]

Originally Posted by Romali_rotti WHen did Rana mature into a good bowler? during the india series or the one and only series against eng?

if you havent had the chance to look up at last years leading wicket takers in one dayers then go look........and tell me whose the bowler with most wickets after brett lee...... you will find your answer but if not......then come back to me and i will be more then happy to show you the full list here along with his ODI performances against india

[Slugger]

left armer

line and length

swing

pak batsmen suck

[cavin420]

i agree with sluggz here......we have this unique quality our pakistani players im on about we make ordinery players look world class...for example .........sachin tendulkar when he comes onto bowl against pakistan seems like shane warns bowling against our batters further more IAn bell comes to bowl it seems like glen mcgrath is bowling.....we even make ordinery teams look like world class at times !

[sharuk]

Originally Posted by invincible He is an intelligent bowler imo ... the wicket of Alistair Cook just a couple of moments before is the right example ... the ball before the wicket, he bowled a full pitched delivery swinging away from the left hander and the wicket ball had the ball pitched up swinging into the batsman thus grabbing him plumb ... he plans his decisions very well ... i think he destroyed his own pace for the lateral movement he gets now a days ... he used to get speeds of 135 - 140 but now hardly crosses 132 ...

dont fall for the commentators talk. they were saying this was the one that goes the other way, the one that goes the other way would have a different seam but it had the same seam has an outsswinger to the left hander. What does that tell you? it was reverse swinging. And when Munaf replaced Pathan he got sudden reverse swing as well. Pathan just got lucky with getting reverse swing with the same seam position as he would be bowling a outswinger to a left hander

[nafajafam]

Pathan has been discussed at length here. No need to start another same thread on him. There are some older ones.

[INZItheman]

Originally Posted by Slugger left armer line and length swing pak batsmen suck

+he is very lucky!

[Romali_rotti]

Originally Posted by nafajafam Pathan has been discussed at length here. No need to start another same thread on him. There are some older ones.

LOL

[Easa]

Originally Posted by cavin420 i agree with sluggz here......we have this unique quality our pakistani players im on about we make ordinery players look world class...for example .........sachin tendulkar when he comes onto bowl against pakistan seems like shane warns bowling against our batters further more IAn bell comes to bowl it seems like glen mcgrath is bowling.....we even make ordinery teams look like world class at times !

Ian Bell only got a wicket by claiming a bump ball.

That had nothing to do with our batsmen.

[deadly_man]

Originally Posted by badxhah i think that line says it all ,,, when it doenst swing ....he becomes a ordinary bowler

same goes for Asif,Gul,Razzak
isnt it???

[aamir_riaz]

Originally Posted by deadly_man same goes for Asif,Gul,Razzak isnt it???

NO It doesnot!!!
The reasons!!!
Well I will give my reasons taking the karachi match as an example
First of all Pathan is a swing bowler!
Gul razzak and Asif are seam bowlers theres is a difference between swing bowlers and seam bowlers
If u can recall the Karachi match
Other then his first spell Pathan sucked !!. The reason for that brilliant spell well You know it!! The greentop. Now if u remember when Akmal and Razzaq were playing the pitch seemed to be eased out . So the wicket had lost its first or pre lunch Life. But when Asif and Razzaq bowled you know what ghappened in the indian First innings. Now we come to the 2nd innings . Pathan gave an opening partnership of more then 100 on a greentop and sucked infact the indian bowlers got a record hammering where the Pakis first 7 batsman made 50+ . When Asif and co came on bowl on a 4th day wicket you know the indian great batting were like pinballs so You cant compare Pathan (I seriously doubt he is a Pathan)with Asif and Razzaq !!!

[The WagonWheel]

I must confess that I go swearing all over whenever I hear this little squeak of Pathan through the stump microphone and then find 122 Km/h written on the screen. But at the end of the day when I become a little sober, (sometimes) it does not look all that bad.

Comparison of Pathan with Akram is crap ... Perhaps his comparison with Chaminda Vaas shall make a little more sense but for that even Pathan shall have to learn the art of bowling in the death overs from Vaas. I believe Vaas's videos can be more than handy for Pathan and Vaas's records can serve as a good yardstick to measure his performances.

He is no Akram and Shoaib Akhtar can probably bowl faster than Pathan with both his hands tied at the back, but lets give the credit where its due , with a new ball Pathan has shown himself to be better than a lot of guys.

Lets not forget this "pop-up gun" has been bringing down the goliaths for quite sometime now.

[UJ]

Chaminda Vaas is excellent in the death overs isn't he. Thats what Pathan needs to work on, slower balls, cutters etc. I mean towards the end when its not swinging, he tends to struggle.

[Amoeba]

As have to keep on reminding everyone here - Pace ain't everything. Paks are obsessed with pace to the detriment of bowlers such as Gul and Asif.

Now suddenly everyone is going mad about Asif whereas a couple of months he was merely unfashionably medium pace!

Accruracy, a little bit of swing and seam and most importantly BRAINS are essential qualities to be successful.

[Bilsher007]

Originally Posted by Amoeba As have to keep on reminding everyone here - Pace ain't everything. Paks are obsessed with pace to the detriment of bowlers such as Gul and Asif. Now suddenly everyone is going mad about Asif whereas a couple of months he was merely unfashionably medium pace! Accruracy, a little bit of swing and seam and most importantly BRAINS are essential qualities to be successful.

Amoeba i think your knowledge of cricket is really poor or maybe your memory is poor. Pace is a major factor along with the right length,swing,seam,reverse swing e.t.c. If pace did'nt matter then the fearsome west indian bowlers holding,roberts,garner,griffith,marshall,ambrose,b ishop and walsh would'nt have made a major difference in world cricket. Neither of these bowlers mentioned used much swing in their arsenal unlike the deadly Ws wasim and waqar who had genuine pace and amazing swing and reverse swing. Asif is not MEDIUM PACE, he's a quick bowler who knows how to vary his pace in a given situation with lateral movement prodigously both ways.

Sami is genuinely quick but he struggles cause he lacks variety in his bowling and lacks a thinking mind. Rana is a good thinking bowler with the right varieties in his arsenal and he is in the range or zone of 135 mph. Pathan is only good with the new ball but quite a useless bowler with the old ball and he does'nt possess much variety. The way afridi mauled pathan in the test series was a perfect example how to play pathan and minimize his sting earlier on with the new ball.

Pakistani bowlers have plenty of brains with exception of sami however the less said about indian bowling the better. Some indians have this wrong concept that their bowling attack is good since they won the one day series against pakistan but reality is theywere gifted the series if they use their brains.

[Noman]

One do u guys think?

Bowling averages
class mat balls runs wkts bbi bbm ave econ sr 4 5 10
Tests 24 4922 2709 89 7/59 12/126 30.43 3.30 55.30 2 7 2
ODIs 54 2777 2269 92 5/27 5/27 24.66 4.90 30.18 2 1 0
First-class 59 11339 6063 191 7/59 31.74 3.20 59.36 10 3
List A 81 4171 3372 131 5/27 5/27 25.74 4.85 31.83 4 1 0
Twenty20 7 144 153 12 4/27 4/27 12.75 6.37 12.00 1 0


Pathan has 92 wickets and have only played 54 odi matches. its nealy 2 wcket per match
his strike rate is 30.18 on odi maches?

Do u guys think he is a good,very good or great odi bowler....`?

I know he hasnt the pace, but I think he is a very good odi bowler... He cant change a match like AKhtar can, but still a good line and leght bowler. I think he was better when he started his international, he might find the same form back,,,,

but what do u gus reckon? your thoughtS?

[CricketCommentator]

Pathan is the next Malcolm Marshall and Michael Holding in the making, all-in-one.

[Easa]

Originally Posted by CricketCommentator Pathan is the next Malcolm Marshall and Michael Holding in the making, all-in-one.

Is it me or have you forgotten Wasim Akram?

[CricketCommentator]

Originally Posted by Easatheman Is it me or have you forgotten Wasim Akram?

Teh who?

Holding can't even lace Pathan's boots, and Ian Botham needs to send his mother-in-law to India to get him a new pair of shoes, so he can easily identify Pathan's 150 kp/h reverse-swinging deliveries.

[the Great Khan]

who the hell cares..what are you pathans chacha or something?? tujaay us nay naukri deni hai??...stop with all these useless pathan threads..he's a trundler and we proved it in the test series..Rao is a good odi bowler for gods sake so i wouldnt use them as a bench mark!!...get over this medium pacer!!

[GQ]

Pathan = Overrated

[Noman]

I am only talking about odi.... I think he is one of the best new bowler in odi...... And I think he also a good batsman,, but U can call ham a good average allrounder.....

[Nauman]

He is an above average allrounder, I hate the guy but you cannot remain in denial for ever. Wether he is an Indian or not the guy has proved that he is a good one day cricketer, call it luck or anything you want to but he has the stats on his side. Before you start bashing me two things must be made clear they are:-
1) I am not an Indian.
2) I am talking about ODIs not tests.

[Noman]

Originally Posted by Nauman He is an above average allrounder, I hate the guy but you cannot remain in denial for ever. Wether he is an Indian or not the guy has proved that he is a good one day cricketer, call it luck or anything you want to but he has the stats on his side. Before you start bashing me two things must be made clear they are:- 1) I am not an Indian. 2) I am talking about ODIs not tests.

I cant agree with u more...

U have the same view as me

[Oxy]

Originally Posted by Noman I cant agree with u more... U have the same view as me

and the same name...

[Noman]

Originally Posted by Oxy™ and the same name...

But we spell them differently

[Rana]

pathan= cocky b*****d

[jusarrived]

He is overrated as a bowler,but is a thinking cricketer so hes not surprisingly doing very well in odi's...but his batting was under used in early part of his career....don be surprised if he ends his career with a 40+ batting avg.

[GQ]

Originally Posted by cavin420 i agree with sluggz here......we have this unique quality our pakistani players im on about we make ordinery players look world class...for example .........sachin tendulkar when he comes onto bowl against pakistan seems like shane warns bowling against our batters further more IAn bell comes to bowl it seems like glen mcgrath is bowling.....we even make ordinery teams look like world class at times !

I agree 100%. Ask Balaji, Irfan, Bell, Collingwood, etc.

[pakistani pride]

Well he seems to be a good odi player but only with the new ball. Still i cant get it how he gets his wickets. Afridi plays him great standing out his crease !

However butt played him with 2 much care. If you stay back he is deadly with the new ball.

Crap in tests thats a fact !

[jusarrived]

mohmd asif was struggling to cross 130 moh tody....ended up getting 5 wikts,imagine in a test match ...n hes supposed to be the best thing to have happned to pakistani bowling for few years now...wat a joke!

[Farhad]

Take away the Bangla and Zim stats from his Test record and it looks shockingly abysmal to say the least.

Of course Pathan would be good in ODIs as he bowls roughly half his overs armed with the new ball - remember that it's only when the ball is new that he is potent. After that, it's help-yourself service.

Interestingly, you don't hear of that comparison with Wasim now from the parosees.

[aamir_riaz]

Well to be a called a good ODI bowler you dont just bowl good six overs witht the new bowls bowls some Outswingers!!! You need to be able to bowl good in the death overs also Also Pathan is very overrated!!!

[the Great Khan]

who says asif was struggling?? theres a difference between even 83 mph and 72....personally i really dont care unless he is playing pakistan...what is this obsession with this guy(pathan) anyway?? get over it..he's a good player but thats it!!...we have bigger fish to fry especially since we vanquished the hype-star 11 last month!!

[aamir_riaz]

I think It would be fair now to have a comparison of Rao and Pathan rather then the other Pak bowlers

[MIB]

Crap Thread

[Aurangzeb]

Rao would be a god in india...

[nafajafam]

Originally Posted by Aurangzeb Rao would be a god in india...

Recent bowlers from India have been better than Rao.

[cavin420]

Originally Posted by nafajafam Recent bowlers from India have been better than Rao.

i agree, infact yesterday i was thinking, india has a good no of decent bowlers these days.........not express but with some experience , and who are effective, so if someone was injured they had a replacement..bowlers like

zaheer khan

ashish nehra

agarkar

rp singh

badrinat
bacha pathan
munna patel

i mean heck all trundlers but still better then our raooo,s....

[Aurangzeb]

rao is actually a pretty good ODI bowler...as for indians, yes, they are producing better bowlers by their standards...but that's not saying much...and having multiple orgasms at an 89mph ball bowled by the "bharuch express" (ahahahahah bharuch), makes them look quite pathetic really...

[Saqlain_doosra]

Too Many people are obsessed with phatan, one or the other. Get over it, soem of you guys just want piece of him. If he plays well then he plays well

[Saj]

Is he injured ? How come he hasnt been selected for the 1st test versus West Indies ?

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by Saj Is he injured ? How come he hasnt been selected for the 1st test versus West Indies ?

hes been dropped due to poor form. intresting move by india to pick 3 in-experienced seam bowlers for 1 test.

[Amjid Javed]

Close day 1 - India 235/9

[Geordie Ahmed]

the next Wasim Akram gets dropped against West Indies

[veez]

You guys are really hypocritics.

First you make fun of Indian bowlers who bowl at 83-88 mph and then you make the statement that Asif is not medium pacer and that he bowls quick.

common, everybody knows Asif is a medium pacer who bowls around 130kph.

Now this is what I call really pathetic analysys. Talk about being bias.

Now Asif has been a revelation bowler for Pak but he's not express and you guys make fun of "slow" 83-89 mph bowlers from India?

Get rid of your bias attitude. Everybody wants to defend their own isn't it?

[Geordie Ahmed]

Originally Posted by veez You guys are really hypocritics. First you make fun of Indian bowlers who bowl at 83-88 mph and then you make the statement that Asif is not medium pacer and that he bowls quick. common, everybody knows Asif is a medium pacer who bowls around 130kph. Now this is what I call really pathetic analysys. Talk about being bias. Now Asif has been a revelation bowler for Pak but he's not express and you guys make fun of "slow" 83-89 mph bowlers from India? Get rid of your bias attitude. Everybody wants to defend their own isn't it?

i dont think you will find anyone on this site who thinks Asif is a quick bowler

it doesnt matter what speed you bowl at aslong as you get wickets

[veez]

Originally Posted by Bilsher007 Pace is a major factor along with the right length,swing,seam,reverse swing e.t.c. If pace did'nt matter then the fearsome west indian bowlers holding,roberts,garner,griffith,marshall,ambrose,b ishop and walsh would'nt have made a major difference in world cricket. Asif is not MEDIUM PACE, he's a quick bowler who knows how to vary his pace in a given situation with lateral movement prodigously both ways. .

this buddy was talking about it

[Jonty]

i think he means asif is a "nippy" bowler.

[Nauman]

Asif easily gets around 85 to 86 clicks when he is in rhythem, where as Pathan atmost gets to 80mph, even Samuels's quicker ones are faster then normal Pathan delivery.