Will Salman Butt go the distance or will he fade away? (merged)

[Tariq Jamshed]

He has been in indifferent form of late and has been dropped (yet again) from the ODI side. His career so far has been a story of starts and stops.

Have the selection policies affected his confidence (and consequently his game) or his results are a measure of his ability?

Personally I think the guy has a lot to offer to Pakistan cricket. Don't care what he does or doesn't do in ODIs but I sure hope they keep him in the test side. He is one of the best young openers out there in the world, me thinks. Not the most naturally gifted but then you don't have to be, esp for an opener. I think he can do quite a decent job at test level.

[floatingslip]

In my opinion he should not have been dropped from the one day side. He is very talented and they should have persisted with him.

Some averages of other players after their first 32 matches in one day internationals
(Butt has played 32 matches @ avg of 31.00)

Hayden - 33.96
Jayasuriya - 11.44
Tendulkar - 33.18
Mark Waugh - 23.88
Lara - 35.5
Inzi - 32.31

Not sure if any of the above were dropped from the side during this time.

[cavin420]

salman butt is not a good enough player , right now hes more of a liability then an asset , his fielding is awful for a 21 year old..........and if the ball moves just a tad , hes in all sorts of problems.....he needs to go away and play for pakistan A........meantime shoaib malik and imran farhat are doing just fine....

[Invictus]

I am not sure about this guy any more. The Indian series did'nt do good for his confidence. Its not if you get out or how you get out its the manner in which you play when you are out there. He looked short of confidence. Maybe needs some time off the middle to sort his head out. Definately someone to groom though. His thinking is right about the game and one of those guys that can play through the innings.

[Saqs]

dropping him might improve his gameplan...
for the moment, i think its a good decision, keeps him on his toes, if he's smart about it, he'll polish some technicalities and come back stronger...
it happens to most good players...the reason they transform from being good players to great players...partly due to them being dropped...Flintoff was told to lose weight and improve his fitness (not sure if he was dropped or not)...look at him now

[offstump]

butt has alot of deficiencies...one big one is he's terrible on his leg side...he also cant play the short delivery...he has played some amazing knocks, eden gardens was one of them... but he seems to have lost his way a little...

[Easa]

Go the distance.

He needs to lose some weight and keep on learning.

[Rudi hater]

I think both Imran Farhat and Salman Butt should be played in the test matches. In ODI only Imran.

[Zeenix]

Not sure what people find so fascinating in him. Probably the 1 odd Hundred in Australia has made him the blue eyed boy. However what i see in him is a technically ILL-EQUIPPED, mentally subdued batsmen, who should be better off playing GALI Cricket. I've yet to see him play any kind of shot with authority. Most of the time i see him i get the impression of a frightened lamb amongst a pack of wolves. An opener at TEST LEVEL and can't play the short ball. WOW. And people suggest him to be put in Test Matches. Hell he can't even play in the 20 20 cup too.
Yah he's a good face, so might be from an aesthetic point of view he can be in the team.

[pakistani pride]

good face ? LOL

He wil bounce back. He has done it before. . .
Mentally he seems strong and he will come nack as a better player !

[in_cutter]

not long ago, Butt was suppose to be the next big thing

[the Great Khan]

what utter nonsense..this guy is only twenty one and has already performed pretty well..although inconsistent we should keep him in the setup and he will continue to get better...yes he should have been dropped but watch he will be back..its good that we are keeping them on their toes!!...but this nonsense about him being a gully player is just stupid...he's a good youngster who will get better...give him a break!!

[in_cutter]

Originally Posted by the Great Khan what utter nonsense..this guy is only twenty one and has already performed pretty well..although inconsistent we should keep him in the setup and he will continue to get better...yes he should have been dropped but watch he will be back..its good that we are keeping them on their toes!!...but this nonsense about him being a gully player is just stupid...he's a good youngster who will get better...give him a break!!

agree...it's just typical knee-jerk reactions

[Rudi hater]

I don't know. All of you pessmist, Butt has not done too badly in tests. He has scored runs when it mattered. Karachi last test scored a 50, Multan test scored a hundred when it mattered. He is a talented, in cricket everybody goes through a bad patch in life but I dont know whether he is going to through a bad patch now. He scored 26 on a testing picth in Columbo. I feel he is the best test opener right now. Imran is too flashy for my liking be it talented.

[Waq]

give Butt a break. no doubt he is a talent and if anyone saw the aussie/indian ininngs when he made centuries than you would not argue.

He is new, raw and out of form and been dropped. Simple as that, lets hope he comes back and proves us all wrong soon. It happened to Nasser Hussain, Damien Martyn, Steve Waugh, Matthew Hayden and many more.

[UJ]

Butt will go the distance. He is just going through a rough time...everyone does. I think that some time playing a domestic level will do wonders from him. Over the longer term, hes our man!!

[Rudi hater]

I am not sure whether he is going through a bad patch..I thought he batted well in Columbo on a difficult pitch.

[inzidabest]

Originally Posted by Rudi hater I think both Imran Farhat and Salman Butt should be played in the test matches. In ODI only Imran.

Just what I thought to post on this topic.
Imran Farhat looked good yesterday. He did throw it away , but that deficieny can be removed with time.

Salman Butt should play test cricket for some time. he has the temperament. More test cricket he plays , more his technique will get better and he can push for the ODI spot.

[Blistering Barnacle]

Originally Posted by zeenix Not sure what people find so fascinating in him. Probably the 1 odd Hundred in Australia has made him the blue eyed boy. However what i see in him is a technically ILL-EQUIPPED, mentally subdued batsmen, who should be better off playing GALI Cricket. I've yet to see him play any kind of shot with authority. Most of the time i see him i get the impression of a frightened lamb amongst a pack of wolves. An opener at TEST LEVEL and can't play the short ball. WOW. And people suggest him to be put in Test Matches. Hell he can't even play in the 20 20 cup too. Yah he's a good face, so might be from an aesthetic point of view he can be in the team.

I agree that he doesn't seem technically equipped and I definitely agree that he seems mentally subdued as a batsman. And the analogy of a frightened lamb amongst a pack of wolves is right on the button.

I like more agressive players who act a bit more confident at the crease - eg., Akmal, Malik, etc. Butt is really quite a slow batsman who lets the pressure build up.

He's no doubt played some good knocks but so have all of our other openers. I'm not sure he is more deserving than any of them. Dropping him for now was a good move.

[suhaib]

Originally Posted by floatingslip In my opinion he should not have been dropped from the one day side. He is very talented and they should have persisted with him. Some averages of other players after their first 32 matches in one day internationals (Butt has played 32 matches @ avg of 31.00) Hayden - 33.96 Jayasuriya - 11.44 Tendulkar - 33.18 Mark Waugh - 23.88 Lara - 35.5 Inzi - 32.31 Not sure if any of the above were dropped from the side during this time.

so just because 6 players out of 10 million crickets did good when they came back after averaging 30s in there first 32 matches means butt would do the same, DNT FINK SO MATE.

nad by the way hayden was droped and came back after 5/6 years.

[salman24]

HE should go the distance. He has shown potential and is the only solid opener Pakistan have found in the last few years.

[Sultan Yusuf]

I've said it many times - he needs a stable, SPECIALIST opening partner! He can't carry the opening burden all on his own...

[Rudi hater]

Butt is here to stay or do you want Hafeez or Naved Latif back..lol

[Tariq Jamshed]

Originally Posted by zeenix An opener at TEST LEVEL and can't play the short ball. WOW. And people suggest him to be put in Test Matches.

How many batsmen in entire Pakistan (not just test eleven, or openers) can play the short ball? They are all basically low bounce pitch batsmen. Ditto for majority of Indian batsmen.

So Salman cannot be excluded on the above count. What he does have is a good temperament for test cricket. Yes he isn't very fluent, but as an opener, he doesn't have to be. We are not spoilt for choices. I think he should definitely be part of the test team.

[Officer Barbrady]

He is still the option for opening amongst the chosen ones in the squad, tests that is. Farhat and Butt are the best equipped to open.

For the future, we need a look at Taufeeq Umar.

[Officer Barbrady]

Originally Posted by zeenix An opener at TEST LEVEL and can't play the short ball. WOW. And people suggest him to be put in Test Matches. Hell he can't even play in the 20 20 cup too. .

His replacement, Malik, is no better equipped to play the short stuff.

And he scored a lot of runs against England (where incidently Malik didn't enjoy much success).

[CricketCommentator]

Ever since Imran Farhat was promoted in place of Salman Butt, he always has looked flashy, flamboyant and extravagant in playing his strokes, whether that be a (mis-timed) pull/hook shot or a glorious cover drive for four. As someone pointed out recently, the time Farhat connects bat to ball it appears as if he is going to rip the ball to shreds and pieces before it ever has a chance to reach the ropes.

Farhat's "mystery" partner at the other end; at times we have Butt, Akmal and recently Malik. Out of all of them, who, in your opinion, is the most suitable, not only for the English tour, but also for FTP and the World Cup? Considering the constant habit of Salman fishing outside the off-stump, it would seem very unlikely they would let him play in those seaming conditions. Malik and Akmal are the only two remaining candidates left at this point, and either of them are likely to open the innings with Farhat (who should be persisted with, down the road).

On the topic of Salman Butt, what should be done in his case? Should he be retained in the team because of this (past) records and miserable recent form and let him grow his confidence back, or should he be shown the exit door for the time being?

[Cartman]

Butt should be brought back.. Butt and Farhat make a nice pair. Simple as that.

[Slugger]

Originally Posted by CricketCommentator Ever since Imran Farhat was promoted in place of Salman Butt, he always has looked flashy, flamboyant and extravagant in playing his strokes, whether that be a (mis-timed) pull/hook shot or a glorious cover drive for four. As someone pointed out recently, the time Farhat connects bat to ball it appears as if he is going to rip the ball to shreds and pieces before it ever has a chance to reach the ropes. Farhat's "mystery" partner at the other end; at times we have Butt, Akmal and recently Malik. Out of all of them, who, in your opinion, is the most suitable, not only for the English tour, but also for FTP and the World Cup? Considering the constant habit of Salman fishing outside the off-stump, it would seem very unlikely they would let him play in those seaming conditions. Malik and Akmal are the only two remaining candidates left at this point, and either of them are likely to open the innings with Farhat (who should be persisted with, down the road). On the topic of Salman Butt, what should be done in his case? Should he be retained in the team because of this (past) records and miserable recent form and let him grow his confidence back, or should he be shown the exit door for the time being?

try farhat and moyo

[CricketCommentator]

Originally Posted by Slugger try farhat and moyo

I will shoot this fax message straight over to Wasim Bari.

[INZItheman]

Farhat and Malik- Farhat deserves more of a chance than Butt!
Malik on the other hand may not be the best on a seaming pitch but he is the best Pak have got. He made some good knocks in the 1st 3 ODI's vs India where Pathan was swinging it and well a marathon of an innings last test match.

Not worth continually chopping and changing and disrupting the team. Pak should persist with two openers and keep working on their weaknesses.

[GQ]

I think Butt is a better player than Farhat. He's just going through a bad patch and will bounce back. Just needs a good confident inning. Farhat has proven more than once that he's irresponsible in his shot selection.

[Farhad]

Should he be retained in the team because of this (past) records and miserable recent form

Alongwith his few low scores in Tests, he was one of the main reasons Pak won the Multan Test against England RECENTLY - he happened to be the Man of the Match. He also played his part in Karachi Test second innings V India when the chips were down.

Miserable recent form? Surely ODI performance is not a criterion to make selection for Tests? Well, it may be nowadays.

[Team Slayer]

good post Farhad, can't understand why Salman has been given such a raw deal by Bob and co. Two major muck-ups by Bob so far in his tenure: Salman's inconsistent selection and silly preferrence of Razzaq over Afridi.

[Team Slayer]

and was calling him loverboy (whatever the heck that was supposed to mean) really necessary?

[shan]

i like this

You have to play well in every series to be in the team look at butt and afridi, we don't want one series wonders!

[Tariq Jamshed]

I don't see who else is better than Salman anyway. I think they will have to bring him back, and he certainly deserves to be in the side. In fact there is a bigger question mark on who should be the other opener. There does not seem to be anyone who has put his hand up

[Tariq Jamshed]

Woolmer has made it very clear that Shoaib Malik will open in England. I will post the link here.

This is not good news for Salman, who is out of the team these days. I believe Salman is a lot more likely to have success as opener than Malik

[akpower]

Originally Posted by Tariq Jamshed Woolmer has made it very clear that Shoaib Malik will open in England. I will post the link here. This is not good news for Salman, who is out of the team these days. I believe Salman is a lot more likely to have success as opener than Malik

Malik is doing the job and he deserves to play. If you look at how he has learned the art of batting sensibly and buidling an innings over the last couple of years. He has played almost every position in the team. And i dont care if we doesn't have a perfect technique and what not, he gets the job done and is one of our more consistent batters.

If anything others shd learns something from his willingness to play anywhere and adopt to the position.

Butt I think has a future but he absolutely deserved to be dropped. I dunno why people are so obsessed with past averages. They mean squat. He was getting out in similar ways in his last few innings and was figured out by the opposition. He had to go.

As for Farhat I have never rated him. But he managed two 50s in the test series so I guess he shd get the nod ahead of Butt. And thats fair enough.

[Disco_Lemonade]

give him sum time n confidence... let him open in abu dhabi matches and against england from the start (prac matches)... he will definitely come off this series... he had already scored a century against aussies in aussies.. so definite potential.

[Zain]

He has alot of talent, pakisytan should not let him fade away he is still young they should groom him, i hope the same thing does not happen to him as happened with imran nazir showed brillaint tallent didnt play well out of the team and they left hi, young players need to be groomed and tought.

[sloveo]

He has already faded away. people calling him the next big thing were talking right utter nonsense. Since Inzi and Sohail (who made debuts in the same game in 1992) the only batsmen to come in and go on to play 20 Tests have been Younis Khan and MoYo!

Thats two NEW batsman in 14 years !!!! pathetic

Hassan Raza, Mohd Wasim, Imran Farhat, Imran Nazir, Taufiq Umar, Yasir Hameed.....all were considered to have the world at their feet and be potential great players for us. Huh!

[UJ]

Originally Posted by sloveo He has already faded away. people calling him the next big thing were talking right utter nonsense. Since Inzi and Sohail (who made debuts in the same game in 1992) the only batsmen to come in and go on to play 20 Tests have been Younis Khan and MoYo! Thats two NEW batsman in 14 years !!!! pathetic Hassan Raza, Mohd Wasim, Imran Farhat, Imran Nazir, Taufiq Umar, Yasir Hameed.....all were considered to have the world at their feet and be potential great players for us. Huh!

Yes, but the selectors must be to blame at a little bit here. They have been guily of not giving some players an extended run to prove their worth.

[Tariq Jamshed]

Originally Posted by akpower Malik is doing the job and he deserves to play. .

He certainly deserves a place in the side but is more suited to the lower middle order. Opening in tests require a lot of skills, and even Inzi, Yusuf and Younis would struggle to have great success if they were in that role, especially if the ball moves around a bit.

But of course as has been pointed out in this thread, we are not spoilt for choices when it comes to batting. Salman I believe is the best of an average lot. He is the one most likely to do well as an opener compared to all the others that have been tried.

[Usman Chadda]

Originally Posted by zeenix Not sure what people find so fascinating in him. Probably the 1 odd Hundred in Australia has made him the blue eyed boy. However what i see in him is a technically ILL-EQUIPPED, mentally subdued batsmen, who should be better off playing GALI Cricket. I've yet to see him play any kind of shot with authority. Most of the time i see him i get the impression of a frightened lamb amongst a pack of wolves. An opener at TEST LEVEL and can't play the short ball. WOW. And people suggest him to be put in Test Matches. Hell he can't even play in the 20 20 cup too. Yah he's a good face, so might be from an aesthetic point of view he can be in the team.

Who do we have in the team to replace him.....lemme think a guy who cant pull to save his life? Thats the one and only Imran Farhat, who IMO doesnt give a damn about the team! Too reckless, too flashy, has a temperament which can be compared to Imran Nazir, I can go on and on....

[Farhad]

He's too good and to hard-working a player to be kept out for long.

[Tariq Jamshed]

Originally Posted by Farhad He's too good and to hard-working a player to be kept out for long.

Pakistan have laid waste to quite a few like that before. Being in and out of the side all the time can and does destory a player. Either you are good enough to be given a decent run, or you are not good enough to be there in the first place. This judgement call however does not seem to exist many times in Pak cricket

[akpower]

Originally Posted by Tariq Jamshed He certainly deserves a place in the side but is more suited to the lower middle order. Opening in tests require a lot of skills, and even Inzi, Yusuf and Younis would struggle to have great success if they were in that role, especially if the ball moves around a bit. But of course as has been pointed out in this thread, we are not spoilt for choices when it comes to batting. Salman I believe is the best of an average lot. He is the one most likely to do well as an opener compared to all the others that have been tried.

Malik's grit can make him a permanent opener, but Salman does have a good chance to serve Pak for a long time if he can overcome some of his glaring weaknesses. Overall, i agree with u, he has great composure and a free flowing bat.

[arqum]

Every player needs to be dropped to make them realize that they are not invisible. Players like afridi , inzimam, shoaib akhtar all World Class playesr have been dropped thru out ther careers.

Salman Butt is a kid. It is a good thing that we dropped him so he can learn from his mistakes and become a solid batsman. He is going to realize his weaknesses during the time hes been laid off.

Just like IMran Farhat has seemed to learn after the drop.
Hopefully one day salman butt and farhat will open. and its gonna be destruction.

[Amir]

I would persist with Farhat, but to drop him from the squad is wrong. YOu do not need to play him within the 11, but not in the squad will dent his confidence. However, what I do nto understand is, something prior to his drop dented his confidence. He just hit a match winning 100 vs India in the 1st ODI and than for the rest of the series goes in a complete shell and plays at the rate of 50!

I just do not understand the dramatic drop, does anyone here?

[Farhad]

He slammed a double ton today against Pakistan Customs I believe. Not such an important match but nevertheless, would have added to his confidence.

[sehsan]

Originally Posted by Farhad He slammed a double ton today against Pakistan Customs I believe. Not such an important match but nevertheless, would have added to his confidence.

great. its important to get confidence back

[Muyazzim Khan]

He needs to sharpen up all aspect of his game. I just dont like the way our young batsmen come into the side with only one string to their bow, which primarily is batting yet they seem like BUTT to be awful fielders and terrible athletes.

Butt not only needs to get his act together with the bat he also needs to lose some weight and learn to either become a slip fielder like most openers are or do something to improve his fielding.

Most decent batsmen around the world seem not only to bat but field well and can turn their arm over as well. Players like Vaughan, Trescothic, Smith, Astle, Hussey, Yuvraj, Sehwag, Sarwan and so on. Unlike our young batsmen who seem to struggle to their primary job let alone the other aspects.

[Tariq Jamshed]

Originally Posted by Muyazzim Khan He needs to sharpen up all aspect of his game. I just dont like the way our young batsmen come into the side with only one string to their bow, which primarily is batting yet they seem like BUTT to be awful fielders and terrible athletes. Butt not only needs to get his act together with the bat he also needs to lose some weight and learn to either become a slip fielder like most openers are or do something to improve his fielding. Most decent batsmen around the world seem not only to bat but field well and can turn their arm over as well. Players like Vaughan, Trescothic, Smith, Astle, Hussey, Yuvraj, Sehwag, Sarwan and so on. Unlike our young batsmen who seem to struggle to their primary job let alone the other aspects.

The point about other aspects of the game is a good one. But historically, Pakistan haven't had many batsmen who have been good at anything else - not to mention they haven't been all that good at their primary role either. However much more is expected from a cricketer these days - at the bare minimum, you have to be able to field at a good level. But then how can we single out younger batsmen when the example they have to look up is the senior crop.

[Tariq Jamshed]

Looks like the only distance Salman has to travel now is the one back to the mediocrity of domestic cricket - until we see him again, as I am sure we will.

[MIG]

Obituaries again ? I thought only I was that daft

[sloveo]

In six months time we'll be thinking....Salman who??

[Fessal]

I am probably the only one but I think Salman and Farhat are players that have been messed about a bit. Ok I now I say they are fishermen but both have one bad series or innings and gets dropped, then picked again, then dropped. PLayers need to be given confidence and not fear and pressure that this will be there last match. Like Asif Iqbal said on Ary today: "they should say to these players: look we give you a run of three matches to perform ..a chance. In that way they dont have this pressure and can play ok".

Asif Iqbal is also right in saying that Sami on the other hand has had so many chances and hasn't taken it but still gets picked. He said that Sami should be replaced but the problem is by who right now? Also, that we hear Sami has this and that potential for the last 6 years but still hasn't delivered. 6 years is a long time and performance is needed NOT potential.

[Fessal]

Asif being an ex-player said that Salman scoring a hundred at Sydney against the AUSSIES is no fluke, and knows that is one of the hardest things to do there.

[Tariq Jamshed]

Yes Fessal, fact of the matter is that Salman has got a raw deal, while others continously get picked despite being consistently awful - Sami.

I actually don't think Salman is gone for good. He will be back

[INZItheman]

Originally Posted by Fessal Asif being an ex-player said that Salman scoring a hundred at Sydney against the AUSSIES is no fluke, and knows that is one of the hardest things to do there.

He has been living on that far too often!

[Fessal]

Originally Posted by INZItheman He has been living on that far too often!

Offcourse he can't live on that for ever, but the thing is he shouldnt have been dropped after one poor series. The point is give him a few games in a row without dropping him: give him confidence not pressure and doubt.

[iZeeshan]

Its amazing how this world works!

You know when this guy burst onto international career I was really happy that Pakistan had finally found someone for the future. He played so well, got some brilliant hundreds verses India in ODIs and Test, and a test 100 vs Australia IN Australia. He was rolling along really well in the cricketing world.

THen something happened. Butt started to decline completely, getting out for ducks and low scores under 25. Something affected his confidence, and he was dropped. He continued to worsen. And now he's in all sorts of trouble wehn the ball moves around. He got out to a good delivery, but that could have been played.

Its sad to see such a great talent go down again and be wasted because he will most likely be dropped. It always happens like this, and I hate to see it happen. I really hope, however, that he will continue to open for Pakistan, and one day he will hopefully come around the corner.