Who Should Have Replaced Shoaib in the 16 man Squad?

[Saj]

With our strike bowler not selected, who should have been selected in the party in his place ?

Another out and out pace merchant, are you happy with Shahid Nazir's selection or should another spinner have been selected ?

[z10]

Najaf Shah

[usman7]

i think shahid nazir was the right choice. he would be very suitable to these english conditions. he deserves his place in the team. nd i have gotta feeling he'l do pretty well.

[Amjid Javed]

I think shahid nazir was right choice interms of what was left. In regards to sqaud its a shame that irshad/najaf werent in it a head of a few others.

[sehsan]

i think shahid nazir is a good choice BUT i am still baffeled to see no Najaf in even 21 man squad. He is not even in A team. There is must be something wrong with him

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by sehsan i think shahid nazir is a good choice BUT i am still baffeled to see no Najaf in even 21 man squad. He is not even in A team. There is must be something wrong with him

i stll cant phatom how khalil is in the "A" team when there are 100s of better left arm bowlers in pakistan.

[cavin420]

najaf shah, my mate said he,s put on an extra yard of pace in his bowling + he is a left-arm bowler which provides variation to our bowling attack.

[161]

Saj - u should have mushy as an option also.

[sehsan]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed i stll cant phatom how khalil is in the "A" team when there are 100s of better left arm bowlers in pakistan.

same here, may be they take him for the sledging

[Saj]

Originally Posted by kashif77 Saj - u should have mushy as an option also.

Added.

[Amjid Javed]

how come junaid zia isnt on the poll?

[PlanetPakistan]

I would have gone with Mustaq!
The inclusion of Mustaq would have had many off field benefits along with his on field wizardary(if that's a word). It would have also made the English management think about the prospect of a spin attack consisting Mustaq, kaneria and possibly Afridi!

[HAFRIDI]

Mushy

[Amir]

There is no real point wasting a spot in the squad for Mushy. We are better off taking a player that resides in Pakistan, because if we needed Mushy he can easily be called(as Bari said). So, why waste a spot? If you think aobut it, Mushy is still part of the squad, just not part of that particular list.

So in essence, we haev a 17 man squad, rather than 16.

[Officer Barbrady]

Nazir is a good bowler but perhaps too late?

Najaf is the only other possibility though he couldn't have made it even if we have five injuries.

[Team Slayer]

i wonder how many people have seen najaf or any of the upcoming bowlers.

[HAFRIDI]

Amir, can u expand on that bit what Bari supposedly said?

[qasim722]

Originally Posted by Team Slayer i wonder how many people have seen najaf or any of the upcoming bowlers.

i saw him during (20\20 if u consider it cricket ) and in bagh-e-jinnah cricket stadium lahore.he is tall and quite good too........

[Sultan Yusuf]

I would have liked to see Najaf Shah in there. However, I don't mind Shahid Nazir - the problem I have is Bob never picks him in the final XI!

[Sultan Yusuf]

Abdul Rauf should have been in the reckoning too...

[Officer Barbrady]

Rauf has struggled when playing for the A team. He's also probably modified his action too many times for his own good.

[DM]

Yasir Ali if he's 150kph

[Monsee]

Yasir Ali should be the logical choice...Pace for Pace

Mushy for Shoaib

I am sure Mushy cannot even run a few feet, how is he supposed to take that high leap and [Sarcasm] Chuck [/Sarcasm] like our Jet Man

[entralinks]

Can I say this, if someone isn't on the list that you think should have been, just write down his name and it will be added.

The kind of questions 'why the hell isn't he on/how come he isn't there/why would you miss him out' just aren't really pleasing to be honest. There are always plenty of contenders to be listed and its only natural that Saj forgets one of them.

Where you demand inclusions as if Saj did it on purpose.

[Officer Barbrady]

Originally Posted by Monsee Yasir Ali should be the logical choice...Pace for Pace Mushy for Shoaib

Given that Yasir hasn't really played first class in a year, he couldn't have been considered.

[Monsee]

Originally Posted by Marooned Given that Yasir hasn't really played first class in a year, he couldn't have been considered.

Mushy to lead the Pak attack with the new ball, to replace Ferrari...now that does make sense

[Amir]

Originally Posted by HAFRIDI Amir, can u expand on that bit what Bari supposedly said?

Sure can, Quote as follows from Cricinfo:

Shahid Nazir named in Pakistan squad Osman Samiuddin June 8, 2006 Few surprises emerged in a 16-man squad announced by Pakistan's selectors for the tour to England which begins later this month. Shahid Nazir has been recalled, in place of the injured Shoaib Akhtar, but the selectors and Bob Woolmer, Pakistan's coach, were both satisfied that the squad was the strongest one available. Wasim Bari, the chief selector, told Cricinfo that despite Shoaib's absence, Pakistan will arrive with a strong pace attack. "I think this is the best squad we could get, especially after the news of Shoaib's fracture. We will miss him of course - any side would - but in Shahid Nazir we have a bowler who is suited to English conditions and is a good option for the captain." As a consolation, Shoaib's absence is not unusual for Pakistan; they drew in India and the West Indies last year and won in Sri Lanka recently without him. The emergence of Mohammad Asif and Rana Naved-ul-Hasan and the return of Umar Gul has helped ease the burden and with Mohammad Sami recalled as well (Bari said the bowler has been working "extremely hard" since he was dropped after the India series), Pakistan's seam attack still has an enviable depth. "We've played and done well in a few series without Shoaib," said Woolmer. "Obviously his presence and express pace are good to have, but I am happy with the squad we have. Shahid Nazir can be very good in these conditions." Shoaib's participation at some point during the tour has, of course, not been ruled out yet least of all by Bari or the bowler. "I am very hopeful that he will play at some stage of the series. He will have another scan in six weeks and we will see after that," said Bari. And Shoaib told AFP he was planning to be fit in time to play at least the last two Tests of the series. His absence apart, little about the squad warranted debate; in Woolmer's words, "this is a squad that has done very well and we don't want to be chopping and changing all the time." As is now the norm, there is a scarcity of specialist openers in whom confidence can be invested. Salman Butt and Imran Farhat are selected, though Shoaib Malik is likely to open with one of them in the Tests. "I don't understand why people have issues with him as an opener," said Woolmer, referring to a number of half-century opening stands and a maiden Test hundred in Colombo recently since Malik added opening to a burgeoning list of roles. "He is a good, good cricketer. All opening batsmen are under pressure, but he's gutsy and the sort of bloke you want in your team. And he's done pretty well as opener." Below them - always nice to say - is a middle order that picks itself. Asim Kamal's continued absence (though he remains a reserve member) might grate with some, but his poor domestic form and the robust international display of Faisal Iqbal recently, lessens the impact of his absence. And because it is England, mischievous mutterings about little Mushie, currently busy tormenting English batsmen on the county circuit, still float around. Bari and Woolmer played their part, neither ruling out, nor ruling in, a Mushtaq cameo at some point in the summer. Woolmer hinted that he might not be needed: "Danish [Kaneria] is our No. 1 spinner but we also have back-up in Shahid Afridi and Shoaib Malik. The pitches at that time of year in England will also have uneven bounce so we're looking more at our seam attack to do the work." But Bari said, open-endedly: "We can't pre-plan these things and it all depends on what happens as the tour progresses, but he is in good form certainly." That form has seen him help Sussex to the top of the County table and help himself to 47 wickets from seven matches. With England still suffering from a calamitous injury list, you could almost be tempted into believing Pakistan stand a more-than-decent chance of preserving an unbeaten record on England tours since 1982. Almost, but not quite, says Woolmer. "I don't look into the future. I respect the team, any team, that we play against. We still have to play very good cricket and win those crucial sessions to win matches. Above all we must take every game seriously." Pakistan squad Inzamam-ul Haq (capt), Younis Khan, Mohammad Yousuf, Shoaib Malik, Salman Butt, Imran Farhat, Kamran Akmal, Shahid Afridi, Abdul Razzaq, Danish Kaneria, Faisal Iqbal, Muhammad Sami, Rana Naved, Mohammad Asif, Umar Gul, Shahid Nazir. Osman Samiuddin is Pakistan editor of Cricinfo

Hope that helps...

[161]

mushy all the way - the english batsmen have become adept at playing against good pacers, but even an ordinary spinner seems to have them chasing their tails ---> and believe me mushy is no ordinaryspinner in english conditions --> he's become ever more succesful then warne in the counties.

[kc_subodh]

Mushy.....we shouldn't look for pace. If you look for pace, I hope you can find a lots of pacers better then Akhtar. But Mushy can be the weakness for the English Mans so.

[Nauman]

Rao Iftikhar

[Easa]

Originally Posted by Nauman Rao Iftikhar

DIE Nauman DIE.

I think Najaf Shah would have been a good selection but I don't mind Shahid Nazir, either.

[fast]

mohammed sami

[Saqib]

I think only this tour we should have included Mustaq Ahmed in the team. He is showing currently his best side in his career, taking wickets every match. He is a match winner. But yes he is old but only for this tour he has some experience in english conditions.

[IMMY69]

test match cricket is invariably played on good tracks..whether they offer some seam and swing is irrelevent...the fact is the wickets are true and usualy have consistent bounce...unlike some first class wickets..especially in pakistan....fact that yasir ali maybe 160 kmph bowler is irrelevent unless he has genuine control and can actually so something with the ball (swing or seam or both)....90 mph+ delivered without control is something any decent test match batsman will put away for boundaries time and time again...it even happens to shoiab when he is out of form...and i have seen it happen to waqar too (and that too when he was close to his fastest pace)...so why would u want to pick a rookie just because people say he has pace and would be like for like replacement for shoiab???

i find it astonishing how people refuse to place enough trust in the selectors, captain, the coach and various experts to ascertain who can be succesful in test cricket and who cant (whether they dont have the ability or may not be ready yet)...all this about najaf shah, yasir ali, etc etc is based merely on hearsay (need i say more? irshaad?)..saj mehmoud has been a 90 mph bowler for the past 3 years but he wasnt rushed into test cricket because he was not ready...same goes for other bowlers around the world too...

[cavin420]

Originally Posted by fast mohammed sami

but he,s already in the 16 man squad

no votes for mohd akram, thats bit of a shock, he used to be a good bowler was hard done by the PCB though...i have never seen anyone get the amount of outswing he used to get, wonder how old is he now ?

i think najaf deserves his chance now, he`s not even in the A team for some strange reason.

[nedian21]

very good decision. In todays Jung its mentioned that selectors had to pick one out of Khalil, Rao and Nazir and in the end Bob and Inzi's vote went for Nazir. Inzi commented that Nazir experience and his style of bowling will suit us in England. He also mentioned that Rao is a decent ODI bowler.
Thanks GOD they didnt go for Rao or Khalil.

[Monsee]

Originally Posted by IMMY69 test match cricket is invariably played on good tracks..whether they offer some seam and swing is irrelevent...the fact is the wickets are true and usualy have consistent bounce...unlike some first class wickets..especially in pakistan....fact that yasir ali maybe 160 kmph bowler is irrelevent unless he has genuine control and can actually so something with the ball (swing or seam or both)....90 mph+ delivered without control is something any decent test match batsman will put away for boundaries time and time again...it even happens to shoiab when he is out of form...and i have seen it happen to waqar too (and that too when he was close to his fastest pace)...so why would u want to pick a rookie just because people say he has pace and would be like for like replacement for shoiab??? i find it astonishing how people refuse to place enough trust in the selectors, captain, the coach and various experts to ascertain who can be succesful in test cricket and who cant (whether they dont have the ability or may not be ready yet)...all this about najaf shah, yasir ali, etc etc is based merely on hearsay (need i say more? irshaad?)..saj mehmoud has been a 90 mph bowler for the past 3 years but he wasnt rushed into test cricket because he was not ready...same goes for other bowlers around the world too...

Same selectors and team management who keeps picking M. Khalil

I can list at least 4-5 Left armers who are much better than Khalil will ever be, yet he continue to get picked and has never delivered on the so-called promise he shows to the selectors. When will he deliver that promise or will he be another Azhar Mehmood!

Najaf Shah, Waqar ahmed (Peshawar), Jamshed (U19 kid) are three bowlers who are miles better than Khalil and yet...

BTW, Yasir Ali is not a rookie (has played one Test) and in my opinion is the Best Domestic Fast Bowler!

[IMMY69]

Originally Posted by Monsee Same selectors and team management who keeps picking M. Khalil I can list at least 4-5 Left armers who are much better than Khalil will ever be, yet he continue to get picked and has never delivered on the so-called promise he shows to the selectors. When will he deliver that promise or will he be another Azhar Mehmood! Najaf Shah, Waqar ahmed (Peshawar), Jamshed (U19 kid) are three bowlers who are miles better than Khalil and yet... BTW, Yasir Ali is not a rookie (has played one Test) and in my opinion is the Best Domestic Fast Bowler!

sorry monsee for once i have got to disagree with you...

firstly, khalil has not played a test match nor has been included in the final test side since the india series in 2005.

secondly, people also wrote off asif so the management must see something in him otherwise why will they be picking him for the a teams and also for the training camps?

yasir ali did not light up the world in the only test he played against bdesh..in fact he clearly had a suspect action...which i blve has now been rectified....

i dont disagree with you that there other talents bowlers in pakistan but the judgement of experts in secting players in pakistan cricket is far more important then in any other country simply because of the state of our domestic cricket....for every one decent player to emerge from first class cricket (based on stats alone) there are 20 more who have equally good stats but are just not test material...this applies more to our system...faisil akbar being one example...a guy who has topped the bowling averages (or thereabouts) over the past 4 or 5 seasons yet didnt look anywhere near test class when selected for the national team...and he is just one example...

my point is that like any team or country playing professional sports one must rely on the judgements of the professionals then just be an arm chair critic...if they dont perform then the management must be changed...but until that happens we must leave it to them...

the upcoming bowlers, like yasir ali, jamshed, ayub, najaf i am sure will be given the chance at some stage whether it is international level or A team level...but i would rather leave it to the professionals to judge...

[IMMY69]

one other thing about yasir ali...and i really do hope that he succeeds...but surely reason for not picking him for england tour is because the lad has only played 11 first games (according to cricinfo)...and his average in those matches is 32...now in your opinion he may be the best bowler in domestic cricket but when u look at sami's first class career stats, and he averages soemthing like 30 with the ball, and when u speak to any batsman plying their trade in domestic circuit they will all tell you that sami and shoaib are the two best by far...there is daylight between them and the rest...and its upto the youngsters to bridge the gap...

[Schiller]

najaf shah - looking to the future

[waqar_ahmad]

najaf shah would have been the rite choice. gul, asif and nowe nazir are all similar bowlers, najaf shah is a left armer and would have added variety to the attack. plus he moves the ball quite well.

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by cavin420 but he,s already in the 16 man squad no votes for mohd akram, thats bit of a shock, he used to be a good bowler was hard done by the PCB though...i have never seen anyone get the amount of outswing he used to get, wonder how old is he now ? i think najaf deserves his chance now, he`s not even in the A team for some strange reason.

i agree with u ther. i liked Mohammad Akram too. I dont know y the PCB did to him what they did. Najaf shah should have been there instead os shahid nazir. i never liked him, i think he is pretty average. najaf would have added variety to the attack

[cavin420]

Originally Posted by waqar_ahmad i agree with u ther. i liked Mohammad Akram too. I dont know y the PCB did to him what they did. Najaf shah should have been there instead os shahid nazir. i never liked him, i think he is pretty average. najaf would have added variety to the attack

indeed najaf should have been there, especially after adding some serious pace to his bowling. his batting ant too bad either i have been told!

[cavin420]

why is shahid nazir in the poll waise ? he`s already in the 16 man squad now.

[Officer Barbrady]

Originally Posted by comma najaf shah - looking to the future

In this poll, Shahid Nazir has more votes than anyone else. Dare I say, had he not been selected he wouldn't have made it to the top five.

I do think it's a decent selection.

Najaf isn't 'rated' by some for certain reasons. He was the most successful bowler in last year A tours which should made him an automatic selection for the A team. He then got 60 odd wickets this domestic season.

He doesn't even find himself in the A team which is mind boggling. Such is Pakistan cricket.

Yasir Ali, on the other hand, didn't have a chance in hell. No cricket team can select a player for such a tour when he hasn't played any FC for nearly a year, has barely 10 FC games in the bag and is just now returning from injury. It's a no-brainer.

[Officer Barbrady]

Originally Posted by Monsee Mushy to lead the Pak attack with the new ball, to replace Ferrari...now that does make sense

Who said anything about Mushy?

[KB]

Najaf isn't 'rated' by some for certain reasons.

And what are these 'certain reasons'?

[waqar_ahmad]

the decision to include shahid nazir is as surprising to me as the one to have rao in the team for such a long time. y dont the selectors go for new and more talented people. i ahve no idea y they have started liking right arm medium pacers and ignoring talented youngsters who can add variety to the attack. I just think that the management is afraid to take any risks with younger players. typical wasim bari isnt it, going for tried and tested players rather than youngsters

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by cavin420 indeed najaf should have been there, especially after adding some serious pace to his bowling. his batting ant too bad either i have been told!

i know he can move the ball quite well. any idea how fast he is?

[HAFRIDI]

Originally Posted by Amir Sure can, Quote as follows from Cricinfo: Hope that helps...

It did- cheers. I think thats pretty understandable. See how kaneria does. If he's flopping, u could bring mushy in.

I hope Najaf is as good as everyone is saying waise, i dont think i have seen him bowl.

[Monsee]

Originally Posted by IMMY69 one other thing about yasir ali...and i really do hope that he succeeds...but surely reason for not picking him for england tour is because the lad has only played 11 first games (according to cricinfo)...and his average in those matches is 32...now in your opinion he may be the best bowler in domestic cricket but when u look at sami's first class career stats, and he averages soemthing like 30 with the ball, and when u speak to any batsman plying their trade in domestic circuit they will all tell you that sami and shoaib are the two best by far...there is daylight between them and the rest...and its upto the youngsters to bridge the gap...

You can do the math on Khalil below; this is part of a thread I did about Khalil vs the other left armers. Do tell me how Khalil gets to jump ahead of the pack

I have seen all 4 of them and Khalil is at the bottom of the pack in terms of pace, swing, seam, and being the the one with the worst bowling action (actually retarded is the word that comes to mind after seeing his action)

BTW, if Khalil is Int'l material than so can be all the other 3 and probably twice better!



Mohammad Khalil
Pakistan

Born November 11, 1982, Lahore, Punjab
Current age 22 years 246 days
Major teams Pakistan, Lahore, Redco Pakistan Ltd
Bowling style Left-arm medium

Bowling averages

class mat balls runs wkts bbi bbm ave econ sr 4 5 10
First-class 24 4147 2390 73 7/71 32.73 3.45 56.80 4 1
List A 18 878 666 15 2/25 2/25 44.39 4.55 58.53 0 0 0
Twenty-20 1 18 29 1 1/29 1/29 29.00 9.66 18.00 0 0 0

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Najaf Shah

Pakistan

Born December 17, 1984, Gujranwala, Punjab
Current age 20 years 210 days
Major teams Pakistan International Airlines, Rawalpindi
Bowling style Left-arm medium-fast


Bowling averages

class mat balls runs wkts bbi bbm ave econ sr 4 5 10
First-class 40 7638 3603 141 7/57 25.55 2.83 54.17 9 0
List A 30 1511 1049 36 4/35 4/35 29.13 4.16 41.97 1 0 0

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Waqar Ahmed

Pakistan


Born April 1, 1980, Peshawar, North-West Frontier Province
Current age 25 years 105 days
Major teams Pakistan Customs, Peshawar Cricket Association, Water and Power Development Authority
Bowling style Left-arm fast-medium



Bowling averages

class mat balls runs wkts bbi bbm ave econ sr 4 5 10
First-class 42 6969 3937 194 7/67 20.29 3.38 35.92 13 3
List A 31 1166 1064 44 4/26 4/26 24.18 5.47 26.50 3 0 0

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zahid Saeed
Pakistan

Full name Zahid Saeed
Born July 5, 1981, Alo Mahar, Punjab
Current age 24 years 10 days
Major teams Gujranwala Cricket Association, National Bank of Pakistan, Pakistan Reserves, Sialkot Cricket Association
Bowling style Left-arm fast-medium

Bowling averages

class mat balls runs wkts bbi bbm ave econ sr 4 5 10
First-class 67 11096 6661 266 6/77 25.04 3.60 41.71 14 4
List A 54 2625 2256 816/23 6/23 27.85 5.15 32.40 4 2 0

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not only the fact that Khalil is the slowest of the bunch (Zahid Saeed is close in terms of pace but has performed much better than Khalil), has the crappiest action ever (Faulty at best), can't swing the ball if his life depended on it, does not even have a good height to generate good bounce etc., he is also below par in terms of wickets per match...when compared to the other three!



M. Khalil: Wickets per match = 3.04 in 4/3 day matches; 0.83 in limited overs

Najaf Shah: Wickets per match = 3.53 in 4/3 day matches; 1.20 in limited overs

Waqar Ahmed: Wickets per match = 4.62 in 4/3 day matches; 1.42 in limited

Zahid Saeed: Wickets per match = 3.97 in 4/3 day matches; 1.50 in limited



CONCLUSION: Khalil does not hold advantage in any department, against some of the best we have in the left arm fast category. He does not seem to possess any natural talent, he is a very poor fielder, less said about his batting the better...what is it that the selctors see in him to make us go through the agony of watching someone who will be slaughtered even at the club level, let alone the Big Stage of International cricket!

To top it all, they recently sent him to India to train with Lillee...I am sure Lillee must have felt like killing himself after seeing the future of fast bowling!

I sincerely believe that he has some sort of "Paawa or Safarish" that got him through the ranks. There seems to be no Reasonable or Unreasonable explanation besides that!


What do you think?

[Amjid Javed]

monsee, there are many other better left armers then khalil in pakistan. safraz ahmed and samiullah khan are another two who should be higher in the pecking order aswell.

[Monsee]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed monsee, there are many other better left armers then khalil in pakistan. safraz ahmed and samiullah khan are another two who should be higher in the pecking order aswell.

Yep, even though they are not as good as Najaf and Waqar Ahmed (My personal Favorite)...they still have more pace and swing!

Sarfraz's action is quite weird though...

Infact, I don't remember Khalil as being a wicket takeing bowler...he was barely able to contain and that is all he does. No swing, no bounce, weird/awkward action, no pace...in fact all the Indian left armers look like his Baasps

[Hash]

so five have voted for Rao Iftikhar (including me)

[Amjid Javed]

Monsee told me hes not voting as junaid zia isnt on the poll!

[Bilsher007]

Asalaam alikum Wr Wb brothers;

Looking at the options in the poll it becomes obvious based on previous and current performances at domestic level and based on having sufficient experience of playing conditions in england that the choice would be shahid nazir.

Mohammed akram, azhar mahmood are talents wasted by PCB, not groomed, nourished or polished over a period properly and hence they faded into oblivion. Rao iftikhar ?? EXCUSE ME PLEASE. Yasir ali and mohammed irshad, i have heard a lot about both of them from ppers regards their immense potential. However i think his non selection is justified having looked at domestic statistics for both first class and one day currently and for previous season. I think yasir ali and mohammed irshad might be prospects for future depending on their performances, fitness and development with regards to being internationl test and one day materials.

Jamshed ahmed and akhter ayub better known for their U-19 fame from the match winning U-19 pakistan team at the recent U-19 world cup are great future prospects. But they need to first develop their first class and one day records at domestic level. They are both very young and given their performances at domestic level,development into mature cricketer, right treatment in nurturing and polishing they can adapt to international cricket when called upon.The same for anwer ali even though in his not mentioned in the poll.

Najaf shah's performances at domestic level be it first class and one day competitions is fantastic for current season and previous two seasons. He is a left arm fast medium bowler and i believe his selection would have been justified cause he gives us rich variety in potent bowling attack. I would have picked him along shahid nazir in the 16 man squad. Thus leaving out umar gul and bringing in najaf shah in his place. Umar gul really has'nt delivered much goods since his return from year long injury. His last great performance was in april 2004 at lahore when exploiting the conditions he decimated india with his seam bowling. Since his return umar gul has been ordinary. I am not sure why he is picked in the squad.

[Hash]

bulsher- azhar mahmood played 139 ODIs and 21 tests.

That is plenty of opportunity to prove himself so you cannot say the PCB failed to groom, nourish or polish him. It is COMPLETELY his fault.

[zaf1986]

Originally Posted by Hash bulsher- azhar mahmood played 139 ODIs and 21 tests. That is plenty of opportunity to prove himself so you cannot say the PCB failed to groom, nourish or polish him. It is COMPLETELY his fault.

in the majority of the 139 odis he batted at 8 or 9. Not giving him the opportunity to show his batting skills.

I still think he should have played more Tests, after such a good start. But he was dropped, and then in for one match of a series, and then gone etc.

Even in ODIs, he was picked was the 2003 WC, and played in one match which was washed out.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by zaf1986 in the majority of the 139 odis he batted at 8 or 9. Not giving him the opportunity to show his batting skills. I still think he should have played more Tests, after such a good start. But he was dropped, and then in for one match of a series, and then gone etc. Even in ODIs, he was picked was the 2003 WC, and played in one match which was washed out.

Not true......check this out-

click here

[Hash]

As for his ODI batting......

he batted at three 6 times, and had an average of 8.17
he batted at six 17 times, and had an average of 23.28
he batted at seven 23 times, and had an average of 21.38

He has had plenty of opportunity. It is always easy to blame the PCB for the failings of a player but in his case it is, in my opinion, ENTIRELY his own fault.

He also opened a few times and battd at 8 or 9 as you said.

[Officer Barbrady]

Originally Posted by Hash As for his ODI batting...... he batted at three 6 times, and had an average of 8.17 he batted at six 17 times, and had an average of 23.28 he batted at seven 23 times, and had an average of 21.38 He has had plenty of opportunity. It is always easy to blame the PCB for the failings of a player but in his case it is, in my opinion, ENTIRELY his own fault. He also opened a few times and battd at 8 or 9 as you said.

Actually an average of 23 odd at 7 given a limited number of opportunities isn't that bad. Simply because many a times he would have come in when all we needed was a few hits and a 23 odd did the job.

I do believe he should have been given a sustained run higher up the order especially after he hit a few 100s against South Africa.

That didn't happen and he was moved up and down the order regularly which didn't help.

Having said that, he's well past the point of an international return and certainly had flaws in his batting.

[zaf1986]

Originally Posted by Marooned Actually an average of 23 odd at 7 given a limited number of opportunities isn't that bad. Simply because many a times he would have come in when all we needed was a few hits and a 23 odd did the job. I do believe he should have been given a sustained run higher up the order especially after he hit a few 100s against South Africa. That didn't happen and he was moved up and down the order regularly which didn't help. Having said that, he's well past the point of an international return and certainly had flaws in his batting.

He is past a recall now, no question.

But at the time, 1997/1998, when he was batting well, he should have batted at 6 or 7 consistently.

[safehands46]

m. akram i dont think can play for pakistan any more.

Umm for me it would have mushtaq or lefty seamer. Mushtaq the benefit is you get wicket taker. He can really create problems for the british who are historically weaker against leg spin. Aussies are historically weaker against off spin. Its a matter of technique. Umm Najaf shah i havent seen much of but samiullah look ordinary. Those u-19 seamer might have been handy but pcb uses the a team as there grooming grounds now.

[IMMY69]

Originally Posted by Monsee You can do the math on Khalil below; this is part of a thread I did about Khalil vs the other left armers. Do tell me how Khalil gets to jump ahead of the pack I have seen all 4 of them and Khalil is at the bottom of the pack in terms of pace, swing, seam, and being the the one with the worst bowling action (actually retarded is the word that comes to mind after seeing his action) BTW, if Khalil is Int'l material than so can be all the other 3 and probably twice better! Mohammad Khalil Pakistan Born November 11, 1982, Lahore, Punjab Current age 22 years 246 days Major teams Pakistan, Lahore, Redco Pakistan Ltd Bowling style Left-arm medium Bowling averages class mat balls runs wkts bbi bbm ave econ sr 4 5 10 First-class 24 4147 2390 73 7/71 32.73 3.45 56.80 4 1 List A 18 878 666 15 2/25 2/25 44.39 4.55 58.53 0 0 0 Twenty-20 1 18 29 1 1/29 1/29 29.00 9.66 18.00 0 0 0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Najaf Shah Pakistan Born December 17, 1984, Gujranwala, Punjab Current age 20 years 210 days Major teams Pakistan International Airlines, Rawalpindi Bowling style Left-arm medium-fast Bowling averages class mat balls runs wkts bbi bbm ave econ sr 4 5 10 First-class 40 7638 3603 141 7/57 25.55 2.83 54.17 9 0 List A 30 1511 1049 36 4/35 4/35 29.13 4.16 41.97 1 0 0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Waqar Ahmed Pakistan Born April 1, 1980, Peshawar, North-West Frontier Province Current age 25 years 105 days Major teams Pakistan Customs, Peshawar Cricket Association, Water and Power Development Authority Bowling style Left-arm fast-medium Bowling averages class mat balls runs wkts bbi bbm ave econ sr 4 5 10 First-class 42 6969 3937 194 7/67 20.29 3.38 35.92 13 3 List A 31 1166 1064 44 4/26 4/26 24.18 5.47 26.50 3 0 0 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Zahid Saeed Pakistan Full name Zahid Saeed Born July 5, 1981, Alo Mahar, Punjab Current age 24 years 10 days Major teams Gujranwala Cricket Association, National Bank of Pakistan, Pakistan Reserves, Sialkot Cricket Association Bowling style Left-arm fast-medium Bowling averages class mat balls runs wkts bbi bbm ave econ sr 4 5 10 First-class 67 11096 6661 266 6/77 25.04 3.60 41.71 14 4 List A 54 2625 2256 816/23 6/23 27.85 5.15 32.40 4 2 0 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not only the fact that Khalil is the slowest of the bunch (Zahid Saeed is close in terms of pace but has performed much better than Khalil), has the crappiest action ever (Faulty at best), can't swing the ball if his life depended on it, does not even have a good height to generate good bounce etc., he is also below par in terms of wickets per match...when compared to the other three! M. Khalil: Wickets per match = 3.04 in 4/3 day matches; 0.83 in limited overs Najaf Shah: Wickets per match = 3.53 in 4/3 day matches; 1.20 in limited overs Waqar Ahmed: Wickets per match = 4.62 in 4/3 day matches; 1.42 in limited Zahid Saeed: Wickets per match = 3.97 in 4/3 day matches; 1.50 in limited CONCLUSION: Khalil does not hold advantage in any department, against some of the best we have in the left arm fast category. He does not seem to possess any natural talent, he is a very poor fielder, less said about his batting the better...what is it that the selctors see in him to make us go through the agony of watching someone who will be slaughtered even at the club level, let alone the Big Stage of International cricket! To top it all, they recently sent him to India to train with Lillee...I am sure Lillee must have felt like killing himself after seeing the future of fast bowling! I sincerely believe that he has some sort of "Paawa or Safarish" that got him through the ranks. There seems to be no Reasonable or Unreasonable explanation besides that! What do you think?

monsee bhai dont ask me what i think....

please read my posts because i dont see why you have given a full rendition on khalil...i am not here debate who should be in the side and who should not...

fact 1: khalil is not in the side..
fact 2: my post was on selection and how u cant judge players on stats alone in pakistan
fact 3: the examples i drew upon were for yasir ali...who actually you were supporting and i was saying sami actually has better stats then yasir ali in domestic cricket...

i am not arguing with you with respect to khalil...in fact there is no debate...

[Monsee]

Originally Posted by IMMY69 monsee bhai dont ask me what i think.... please read my posts because i dont see why you have given a full rendition on khalil...i am not here debate who should be in the side and who should not... fact 1: khalil is not in the side.. fact 2: my post was on selection and how u cant judge players on stats alone in pakistan fact 3: the examples i drew upon were for yasir ali...who actually you were supporting and i was saying sami actually has better stats then yasir ali in domestic cricket... i am not arguing with you with respect to khalil...in fact there is no debate...

I merely replied about your comment of 'Selectors and team management, knowing better'...maybe they don't always know the truth!

Maybe, just maybe, certain people/Groups don't want them to see or know about the rising players

I don't have all the answers either BUT every time I see Khalil ambling in to bowl and then that Retarded swing of his arm...ahhh akh thoo akh thoo

[nadeem]

Yasir ali without a shred of doubt and the reason is his ability to hurry and cramp the batsmen. On his debut, i saw him bowling really quick for a 17 yr old and the ball was just thudding into latif's gloves. PCB are hell bent on wasting this guy who did put a lot of pressure on the english in one of their side games in PAK before he went off with injury.

[Kamranz]

Shahid Nazir Is the man for the job

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by nadeem Yasir ali without a shred of doubt and the reason is his ability to hurry and cramp the batsmen. On his debut, i saw him bowling really quick for a 17 yr old and the ball was just thudding into latif's gloves. PCB are hell bent on wasting this guy who did put a lot of pressure on the english in one of their side games in PAK before he went off with injury.

Yasir looked like a good prospect and had all raw ingredients to do well. However, there were a few question marks over his action.

PCB selectors seem to like line and length trundlers like rao, khalil etc rather than bowlers with zip.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed Yasir looked like a good prospect and had all raw ingredients to do well. However, there were a few question marks over his action. PCB selectors seem to like line and length trundlers like rao, khalil etc rather than bowlers with zip.

Khalil didn't even have line and length!

[Easa]

Spot on.

[Monsee]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed Yasir looked like a good prospect and had all raw ingredients to do well. However, there were a few question marks over his action. PCB selectors seem to like line and length trundlers like rao, khalil etc rather than bowlers with zip.

He has completely remodelled his old action and it looks quite different from the old one!

He, as Nadeem says "Without doubt" is the best bowler on display, at domestic level...as far as I am concerned

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by Monsee He has completely remodelled his old action and it looks quite different from the old one! He, as Nadeem says "Without doubt" is the best bowler on display, at domestic level...as far as I am concerned

has the change in action effected his pace?

[Monsee]

Originally Posted by waqar_ahmad has the change in action effected his pace?

Well, I am not in a position to say Yes or No cause I have only watched one ball from his debut Test, with his dodgy action!

What I can vouch for is 'when I saw him last year, he was the quickest of all the domestic bowlers including Irshad, Rauf, and rest of the crop!'

He is young, tall, seems to be physically strong yet athletic, unlike the hulking physique of Shoaib, and in a few years, he will only get better and faster...barring any injuries

Here's hoping he gets his second chance soon...even if it means having to deal with Amir Sohail as a selector again (Minus that Ganja Chucker)

[pakistani pride]

yasir ali i mean whats the fuss about ? UNLEASH HIM PCB ! ! !

[waqar_ahmad]

we definitely need young fast bowlers now, specially coz we need to rotate them to avoid any injuries.

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by Monsee Well, I am not in a position to say Yes or No cause I have only watched one ball from his debut Test, with his dodgy action! What I can vouch for is 'when I saw him last year, he was the quickest of all the domestic bowlers including Irshad, Rauf, and rest of the crop!' He is young, tall, seems to be physically strong yet athletic, unlike the hulking physique of Shoaib, and in a few years, he will only get better and faster...barring any injuries Here's hoping he gets his second chance soon...even if it means having to deal with Amir Sohail as a selector again (Minus that Ganja Chucker)

well u r rite there, only aamir sohail had the guts to bring in fresh blood, bari keeos on trying tested players and keeps on repeating the same mistakes.