Greg Chappell's Record as India Coach

[deep82]

G. Chappal has completed his 1st year with the Indian Team at the end of windies tour. Here is India's record under him so far:

Test
Matches: 15
Won: 6 (2-Zim,2-SL,1-Eng,1-WI)
Lost: 2 (1-Pak,1-Eng)
Draw/No Result: 7

ODI
Matches: 36
Won: 22(6-SL,5-Pak,5-Eng,3-WI,2-Zim,1-NZ)
Lost: 13(4-SL,4-WI,2-Pak,2-NZ,1-Eng)
No Result: 1

High Points:
1. India's back to back crushing ODI series victories vs SL,PAK & ENG.
2. India winning test series outside subcontinent (vs Zim, vsWI)

Low points:
1. Debacle at Karachi & Mumbai tests.
2. Latest one day series blip vs WI.


Can anybody provide similar stats of Bob Woolmer?

[skr30]

All I know is that he hasn't declared himself "number one" to the people of Pakistan.

btw it's a middle finger joke for the Indians posting here.

[pakistani pride]

BOB has achieved way more than chappel has no need for stats to show that !

HE HAS DONE IT IN BOTH FORMS OF THE GAME . . . .

[deep82]

Ya I know. Bob is with PAK for more than 2 years now(?) so can't compare. But still a performance chart of Bob would be ideal.

[skr30]

Originally Posted by deep82 Ya I know. Bob is with PAK for more than 2 years now(?) so can't compare. But still a performance chart of Bob would be ideal.

sounds like a lot of work to prove pretty much nothing. I wonder if you would have been happy with Chappel had India lost yesterday which seemed possible.

[deep82]

Originally Posted by skr30 sounds like a lot of work to prove pretty much nothing. I wonder if you would have been happy with Chappel had India lost yesterday which seemed possible.

But It didn't happen.

Guess PPers are not passionate enough to do some research,no offence.

[skr30]

not when it proves nothing

[safehands46]

either way the comparison is difficult, Woolmer had horrible first year. The losses in aussie the drawn series in windies to name a few. It takes time to build the core.

[Rickz]

Originally Posted by safehands46 either way the comparison is difficult, Woolmer had horrible first year. The losses in aussie the drawn series in windies to name a few. It takes time to build the core.

I agree.........Pakistan has made a lot of progress since their 3-0 loss in Australia.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by deep82 But It didn't happen. Guess PPers are not passionate enough to do some research,no offence.

Well you guessed wrong.

The truth is that we are far more intelligent than you and we all know that stats, in the bigger scheme of things, are pretty (though not completely) meaningless and hide the reality (which is that we are much better than you).

[PlanetPakistan]

Originally Posted by deep82 G. Chappal has completed his 1st year with the Indian Team at the end of windies tour. Here is India's record under him so far: Test Matches: 15 Won: 6 (2-Zim,2-SL,1-Eng,1-WI) Lost: 2 (1-Pak,1-Eng) Draw/No Result: 7 ODI Matches: 36 Won: 22(6-SL,5-Pak,5-Eng,3-WI,2-Zim,1-NZ) Lost: 13(4-SL,4-WI,2-Pak,2-NZ,1-Eng) No Result: 1 High Points: 1. India's back to back crushing ODI series victories vs SL,PAK & ENG. 2. India winning test series outside subcontinent (vs Zim, vsWI) Low points: 1. Debacle at Karachi & Mumbai tests. 2. Latest one day series blip vs WI. Can anybody provide similar stats of Bob Woolmer?

Not bad!

[PlanetPakistan]

High points for Woolmer:

1- Drawn test series vs IND in IND(Bangalore test match really gave the side a lot of confidence)
2- The ODI series win in IND,
3- Clean sweeping WI in ODIs,
4- Tests and ODI series wins over ENG,
5- Test series win over IND.
6- Tests and ODI series win vs SL.

Low points

1- Thrashing in AUS(3-0)
2- ODI series loss to IND.
3- PAK failed to make the Asia cup final in 2004 and failed to win a tri series vs SL/ZIm.

[W63L35]

Originally Posted by deep82 2. India winning test series outside subcontinent (vs Zim, vsWI)

Why just look at India's record under Chappell....?? How about overall?

PHP Code:

AWAY TESTS
Team                Tests      Won     Lost    Drawn     Tied      Win %
Australia             326      117       91      117        1      55.98
England               419      129      143      147        0      47.42
West Indies           235       76       93       65        1      44.70
Pakistan              170       43       58       69        0      42.57
South Africa          139       35       54       50        0      39.32
Sri Lanka              83       14       40       29        0      25.92
India                 193       26       82       85        0      24.07
New Zealand           171       24       78       69        0      23.52
Zimbabwe               39        2       27       10        0       6.89
ICC-XI                  1        0        1        0        0       0.00
Bangladesh             23        0       21        2        0       0.00

TOTAL                1799      466      688      643        2 


[skr30]

Originally Posted by W63L35 Why just look at India's record under Chappell....?? How about overall?

Don't you know about all the bad umpiring, weather, Sharjah etc

I almost forgot the ball tampering. Feel free to add the ones I missed.

[deep82]

Got a first hint of India haters. Apart from one guy,rest 'intelligent' guys are so hell bent on defending Woolemer when all I wanna discuss is woolmar's performance as Pak Coach. No where did I intend to compare Wolmer & Chappall or mentioned that Chappall record is better than him.

Thx to planetPakistan for one 'intelligent' reply.

[safehands46]

Originally Posted by PlanetPakistan High points for Woolmer: 1- Drawn test series vs IND in IND(Bangalore test match really gave the side a lot of confidence) 2- The ODI series win in IND, 3- Clean sweeping WI in ODIs, 4- Tests and ODI series wins over ENG, 5- Test series win over IND. 6- Tests and ODI series win vs SL. Low points 1- Thrashing in AUS(3-0) 2- ODI series loss to IND. 3- PAK failed to make the Asia cup final in 2004 and failed to win a tri series vs SL/ZIm.

Where is the drawn series against windies. Basic point i am trying to make is that chappell is trying to stabalize a india team the way woolmer had to. Woolmer didnt do an overnight job he basically built a core and then went from there. He now has younis playing as top batsmen with inzi and youhana. We have given akmal time to grow like we did with alot of other players.

Basically, on the test side chappell has yet to find a solid core. He has had to open the bowling with medium pacers. He has clearly tried to do the smart thing introduce some juice even though Chappell has far from easy job. Plus his captain is new. Its not easy to play with young team. Having tendulkar out doesnt help either.

The reason we have to seperate both odis and tests is because odis can be won with the flamboyant batting and so on. But test matches come down to the bowlers. how many strike bowlers you have. Chappell i think has done a fine job with the talent that he was given.

[banana_246]

Chapell has been a far better coach than Woolmer will ever be, and that's the bottom line cause banana246 said so!

[mulan]

I'm not the biggest Woolmer fan in the world...but that's another story for another thread...

I think India should give Chappel more time. It's only been a year. A whole lot of cricket is going to be played until the WC. If he can make India peak at the right time...Who knows?

[pakistani pride]

Pakistan has won series versus india, Eng and SL !

they have won odi series versus ind, eng , wi and SL

india has not achieved that sort of thing with chappel. I mean getting beaten by eng C team and getting thrashed by pak in karachi. What is even more worse that indian team is carried by 1 or 2 players while BW has formed a great unit !

[banana_246]

Originally Posted by pakistani pride Pakistan has won series versus india, Eng and SL ! they have won odi series versus ind, eng , wi and SL india has not achieved that sort of thing with chappel. I mean getting beaten by eng C team and getting thrashed by pak in karachi. What is even more worse that indian team is carried by 1 or 2 players while BW has formed a great unit !

Alright! Lets just reflect on what you said. Pakistan won a test series against India and England at home. India have also won against Sri Lanka at home. Outside of home, both countries have only won one series away. For Pak it's SL (note still in asia and SL were missing Jayasuriya, Attpatu, Vaas and Zoysa), and for Inida it's the West Indies. So do you really think Woolmer has done a good job. I mean after all, the thing he needs to improve on is Paks record away from home, and outside of the sub-continent. After two years as being coach, he has failed in that.

[Daoud]

Originally Posted by banana_246 Alright! Lets just reflect on what you said. Pakistan won a test series against India and England at home. India have also won against Sri Lanka at home. Outside of home, both countries have only won one series away. For Pak it's SL (note still in asia and SL were missing Jayasuriya, Attpatu, Vaas and Zoysa), and for Inida it's the West Indies. So do you really think Woolmer has done a good job. I mean after all, the thing he needs to improve on is Paks record away from home, and outside of the sub-continent. After two years as being coach, he has failed in that.

The series we've had abroad were Australia and a 2 test series against the Windies. Not looking to make excuses but if India had a 2 test series against the Windies with Dravid, Tendulkar, (any other batsman), Kumble and another main bowler, they too wouldnt have won that series

[deep82]

Still waiting for Woolmar performance stats,anyone?

[razorman]

Sri Lanka is a much harder place to tour than West Indies.

Sri Lanka home record:

Australia : LOSS
Pakistan: LOSS
India : WON
South Africa : WON
England : WON
West Indies : WON
New Zealand : DRAW

West Indies home record:

Australia : LOSS
Pakistan : DRAW
India : LOSS
South Africa : LOSS
England : LOSS
New Zealand : LOSS
Sri Lanka : WON

Not to take credit away from India's fine win, but I'd say Pak winning in Sri Lanka is a harder achievement than India winning in the West Indies.

[W63L35]

Originally Posted by deep82 Got a first hint of India haters.

Like you are here on PP for the love of Pak team and its players???

Originally Posted by deep82 Apart from one guy,rest 'intelligent' guys are so hell bent on defending Woolemer when all I wanna discuss is woolmar's performance as Pak Coach. No where did I intend to compare Wolmer & Chappall or mentioned that Chappall record is better than him.

Here is your OWN quote...just in case you forgot to look up;

Originally Posted by deep82 G. Chappal has completed his 1st year with the Indian Team at the end of windies tour. Here is India's record under him so far: Can anybody provide similar stats of Bob Woolmer?

In hindi, it may not be called comparison but in English it sure sounds like one!

Originally Posted by deep82 Thx to planetPakistan for one 'intelligent' reply.

From the rest of us who had "stupid" or "non-itellegent" replies to your Woolmer/Chappel non-comparison,.............I have only one thing to say......"ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer"!

As far as Woolmer vs Chappell is concerned, Chappell has waaaay easy job at hand than Woolmer.

See for yourself;

ALL TESTS
Team                Tests      Won     Lost    Drawn     Tied      Win %
Australia             682      315      178      187        2      63.63
Pakistan              320      100       82      138        0      54.94
England               848      295      245      308        0      54.62
West Indies           433      149      136      147        1      52.09
South Africa          312      101      111      100        0      47.64
Sri Lanka             163       44       62       57        0      41.50
India                 400       88      129      182        1      40.36
New Zealand           330       61      130      139        0      31.93
Zimbabwe               83        8       49       26        0      14.03
Bangladesh             44        1       39        4        0       2.50
ICC-XI                  1        0        1        0        0       0.00

TOTAL                1808     1162     1162      644        2

Now tell me whose job is easier..........Chappell is dealing with a team that is already at #7...the only way for Chappell is UP....he can take that team to #6, #5, #4.....he has plenty of room for improvement.

Now Woolmer's team is already at #2 all time ranking. You can take #2 team to only #1 and thats it!

[W63L35]

Originally Posted by razorman Not to take credit away from India's fine win, but I'd say Pak winning in Sri Lanka is a harder achievement than India winning in the West Indies.

Hey razorman......why are you putting damper on such a BIG achievement....??? Let them enjoy and gloat!!! We are used to winning but the wins come rarely to them....SPEACIALLY outside subcontinent.

Congrats to Indian team on this fantastic win!
P.S. I am NOT being sarcastic!

[MIG]

Deep82 - if you want to contribute on PP, you are welcome but pls dont start this "Indian hater" rubbish discussion.

One more outburst like that will result in a ban - Thanks

Guys:

His first post was fine - pls dont use this thread to take pot shots at India etc.

[chuck]

Ok here are the stats for Woolmer ...

Tests - 16 matches, 6 win, 5 loss, 5 draw
ODI - 50 matches, 30 win, 19 loss, 1 NR

In Tests it's avg. However ODI stats are very good indeed. Stats apart, what Woolmer has done is more reflected in collective synergy in the team. Pakistan always had individual stars but in his era the team looks like a collective unit fighting for a common cause. That's one of the best things to happen to any team.

[Bilsher007]

Originally Posted by chuck Ok here are the stats for Woolmer ... Tests - 16 matches, 6 win, 5 loss, 5 draw ODI - 50 matches, 30 win, 19 loss, 1 NR In Tests it's avg. However ODI stats are very good indeed. Stats apart, what Woolmer has done is more reflected in collective synergy in the team. Pakistan always had individual stars but in his era the team looks like a collective unit fighting for a common cause. That's one of the best things to happen to any team.

You have summed it up nicely but with some exception offcourse. The exception is your judgement on the test record. You got to remember when woolmer took over and uptill the period when pakistan team went over to australia for a test series and triangular series, pakistan team was going through transition. They were not a finished article then ( 2005 jan to feb) so if you are going to say the test record is average then that's poor judgement from you. Pakistan has improved hugely and progression has been admirable.

[Farhad]

To top it all, Greg The Whinger has really enhanced his record now by talking of "mitigating circumstances" causing losses to India at the hands of Paks and England (small matter of them being the crunch and demanding fixtures of his tenure so far), just after his team has beaten a lowly-ranked woeful team. Basking in the glory, eh? Does he seriously think all would be forgotten...those nightmarish and jolting major losses?

[Schiller]

Stupid question to begin with.

ps Didn't know Pak was no 2 in overall rankings. Say what you will, that is commendable.

[offcutter]

Originally Posted by W63L35 Like you are here on PP for the love of Pak team and its players??? Here is your OWN quote...just in case you forgot to look up; In hindi, it may not be called comparison but in English it sure sounds like one! From the rest of us who had "stupid" or "non-itellegent" replies to your Woolmer/Chappel non-comparison,.............I have only one thing to say......"ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer"! As far as Woolmer vs Chappell is concerned, Chappell has waaaay easy job at hand than Woolmer. See for yourself; ALL TESTS Team Tests Won Lost Drawn Tied Win % Australia 682 315 178 187 2 63.63 Pakistan 320 100 82 138 0 54.94 England 848 295 245 308 0 54.62 West Indies 433 149 136 147 1 52.09 South Africa 312 101 111 100 0 47.64 Sri Lanka 163 44 62 57 0 41.50 India 400 88 129 182 1 40.36 New Zealand 330 61 130 139 0 31.93 Zimbabwe 83 8 49 26 0 14.03 Bangladesh 44 1 39 4 0 2.50 ICC-XI 1 0 1 0 0 0.00 TOTAL 1808 1162 1162 644 2 Now tell me whose job is easier..........Chappell is dealing with a team that is already at #7...the only way for Chappell is UP....he can take that team to #6, #5, #4.....he has plenty of room for improvement. Now Woolmer's team is already at #2 all time ranking. You can take #2 team to only #1 and thats it!

Wow I didn't know we are the all time #2! What an achievement, Alhamdullilah!
But everyone is way...wayyyyy behind Australia it seems

[deep82]

Thx chuck for the stats. Hey guys I was asking for the simple stats which chuck provided. I dunno know why most of the guys are so outrageous or offended by it. As confirmed by the moderator, My post was fine. Still some guys[W63735 & farhad] went beserk and submitted non sense replies which are not related to the present discussion.
Anyways I shall ignore them.

Back to BW stats, I must say pretty impressive in ODIs (historically PAK are always good in ODIs though). In test too leave that 3 zip drubbing by the hands of AUS(the PAK team was very raw then) and the test record looks good.
Overall a fine coach.

Thanks to rest of the guys for nice discusiion.

[Farah]

Originally Posted by chuck Ok here are the stats for Woolmer ... Tests - 16 matches, 6 win, 5 loss, 5 draw ODI - 50 matches, 30 win, 19 loss, 1 NR In Tests it's avg. However ODI stats are very good indeed. Stats apart, what Woolmer has done is more reflected in collective synergy in the team. Pakistan always had individual stars but in his era the team looks like a collective unit fighting for a common cause. That's one of the best things to happen to any team.

Where did u get the stats from ? Woolmer was appointed Pak coach in June 2004.

Woolmer has been incharge 18 Tests not 16

Tests - 18 matches, 7 win, 6 loss, 5 draw

2004-2005 Pakistan v. Sri Lanka 20/10/2004 Drawn 1-1
2004-2005 Australia v. Pakistan 16/12/2004 Australia 3-0
2004-2005 India v. Pakistan 08/03/2005 Drawn 1-1
2004-2005 West Indies v. Pakistan 26/05/2005 Drawn 1-1
2005-2006 Pakistan v. England 12/11/2005 Pakistan 2-0
2005-2006 Pakistan v. India 13/01/2006 Pakistan 1-0
2005-2006 Sri Lanka v. Pakistan 26/03/2006 Pakistan 1-0

Test Series Played > 7

Won > 3
Drawn > 3
Lost > 1

[Blistering Barnacle]

Rather than looking at individual matches, it makes much more sense to look at series. At the end of the day, that's what counts.

Under Woolmer, Pak has only lost one test series and that was against top dogs Australia early in his tenure.

That's a very decent job.

Pak under woolmer is now ranked no. 3 in both tests and ODIs.

As far as Chappell goes, he seems to be doing very well with India as far as ODIs go, but so far there is not much improvement if any at all with the test team. Perhaps in the next year India will improve under him. There certainly seem to be quite a few new faces in the Indian test team.

[MIG]

Ok chaps - the title of this thread is about Greg and Not BW - lets not compare apples to oranges !

Greg = no nonsense Aussie approach
BW = congenial, fatherly attempt to get a bunch of wildly talented players into a cohesive and consistent playing unit .

[banana_246]

Originally Posted by razorman Sri Lanka is a much harder place to tour than West Indies. Sri Lanka home record: Australia : LOSS Pakistan: LOSS India : WON South Africa : WON England : WON West Indies : WON New Zealand : DRAW West Indies home record: Australia : LOSS Pakistan : DRAW India : LOSS South Africa : LOSS England : LOSS New Zealand : LOSS Sri Lanka : WON Not to take credit away from India's fine win, but I'd say Pak winning in Sri Lanka is a harder achievement than India winning in the West Indies.

So you say Sri Lanka is a harder place to tour than the West Indies. I agree BUT a Sri Lankan team without Vaas, Attapatu, Jayasuriya and Zoysa is pretty damn easy to beat (even at home, as pak showed) wouldn't you agree. Besides a confident, full strenght West Indian team is not that easy to beat.

I can guarantee if pak played a full strenght SL team in SL, they would loose.

[IMMY69]

personally i dont like greg chappel...you can see his influence on the indian players and it just isnt nice...it may workd for the aussies but indians are different...to give an example...after the second or third one day international against windies, during the presentation, dravid said 'we can take heart fromt he fact that we are not playing anywhere near to our potential and that we can play a lot better...' this to me was just plain awful...dravid is a gentlemen and has always praised the oppoisiton and his humility in the face of adversity is what i admired him for (apart ofcourse from his batting ability)...i was expecting him to priase the windies and instead he talked about his own team not playing to its protential...as it happens it all came back to hit him in the face..as india went onto lose the series 4/1.

the fact that chappel now talks about mitigating circumstances for their test failures against pakistan and england tells me that what dravid said that day was a direct result of chappels influence...

to compare chappels record as coach with bob woolmers would be extremely premature..but just by the way he seems to be making excuses, giving the finger to the press, throwing ganguly out of the team tells me that this guy may just turn out to be the worng man for the job..afterall whatever ganguly maybe he certainly was a great captain for india and did a lot for their national team..chappel should have shown a hell of a lot more respect for him then he did...

[Easa]

It's better to look at the series stats.

Pakistan have lost 1 out of 7 test series under Woolmer and that was against the best side in the world in their own backyard.

[IMMY69]

Originally Posted by banana_246 So you say Sri Lanka is a harder place to tour than the West Indies. I agree BUT a Sri Lankan team without Vaas, Attapatu, Jayasuriya and Zoysa is pretty damn easy to beat (even at home, as pak showed) wouldn't you agree. Besides a confident, full strenght West Indian team is not that easy to beat. I can guarantee if pak played a full strenght SL team in SL, they would loose.

i think you are losing the plot my man...

firstly jayasuriya did play in the test matches...and u have to remember we played without shoiab and rana so that evens out the bowling score...
and you may just about recall that sri lanka just drew with england in england without attapatu and zoysa...

you talk about full strength windies team not being easy to beat...but u forget all about the contract fiasco between the board and its players and that there was even talk of a players strike just before the final test match...add to that lara was a very unhappy captain due to the selectors not picking the team he wanted and that the toss seemed to be a lottery in the last test match since the pitch was clearly underprepared...if u didnt watch the game on tv then just look back at the scorecard and you'll know what i am talking about...

the bottom line is that since the aussie series where we lost the series without inzy (back injury), shoiab akhtar (in the last test match)...and with two rookie openers...and against a rampant aussie side which had not yet lost the ashes..., we have yet to lose a test series, at home or abroad...and if you check the pakistan stats back to 2000 you will see if anything we had a better away record then a home record so if anything bob woolmer has done a great deal for the country since we have won ever single home series (barring the draw against sri lanka) since bob was made coach...with respect to series overseas, outside asia we have only played the windies, and that too without shoiab akhtar for the entire srries and without inzy for the first test match..and still managed to win the last test match to draw the series..if only there was more then just two test matches then who knows we may have even come out on top...

[mulan]

Originally Posted by IMMY69 personally i dont like greg chappel...you can see his influence on the indian players and it just isnt nice...it may workd for the aussies but indians are different...to give an example...after the second or third one day international against windies, during the presentation, dravid said 'we can take heart fromt he fact that we are not playing anywhere near to our potential and that we can play a lot better...' this to me was just plain awful...dravid is a gentlemen and has always praised the oppoisiton and his humility in the face of adversity is what i admired him for (apart ofcourse from his batting ability)...i was expecting him to priase the windies and instead he talked about his own team not playing to its protential...as it happens it all came back to hit him in the face..as india went onto lose the series 4/1. the fact that chappel now talks about mitigating circumstances for their test failures against pakistan and england tells me that what dravid said that day was a direct result of chappels influence... to compare chappels record as coach with bob woolmers would be extremely premature..but just by the way he seems to be making excuses, giving the finger to the press, throwing ganguly out of the team tells me that this guy may just turn out to be the worng man for the job..afterall whatever ganguly maybe he certainly was a great captain for india and did a lot for their national team..chappel should have shown a hell of a lot more respect for him then he did...

Great post. I couldn't have said it better myself. Even the folks here on a Safrican Cricket Board are making these same deductions. (and they are ALL Safrican fans).

Which simply tells you one thing...Bottom line is: He's not the right guy to coach India...But I still think he should be given another year. After India fails at the WC, he'll be replaced anyway....

[Rickz]

Originally Posted by mulan Great post. I couldn't have said it better myself. Even the folks here on a Safrican Cricket Board are making these same deductions. (and they are ALL Safrican fans). Which simply tells you one thing...Bottom line is: He's not the right guy to coach India...But I still think he should be given another year. After India fails at the WC, he'll be replaced anyway....

I agree with he might not have been the right man for the job, but I disagree with you saying 'after India fails the world cup', can you predict the future?

[James]

After India's recent one day success in the Carribean, they cant fail to do well in a world cup in the West Indies..!

[mulan]

Originally Posted by Playa I agree with he might not have been the right man for the job, but I disagree with you saying 'after India fails the world cup', can you predict the future?

Sorry...that last sentence should have had this smilie ( ) at the end...It was said kinda tongue-in-cheek.

I'm actually a BIG Indian cricket fan...Also Sri Lanka....New Zealand... etc etc etc

[James]

As much as I like India's ODI team, they have still done very little to prove that they can perform in LOIs when the pitch isn't flat!

[Nauman]

You just cannot control a group of individuals with the force of a stick and to me that is what Greg Chappel seems to be doing, he is enforcing his ideologies and beliefs onto the team. Its a matter of time one before one of the senior player in the team revolts against him and it will all fall down. Chappel wants to run a one man show and right now he has found a good yes man in form of Dravid.

[mulan]

Originally Posted by Nauman Its a matter of time one before one of the senior player in the team revolts against him and it will all fall down. Chappel wants to run a one man show and right now he has found a good yes man in form of Dravid.

I actually believe Dravid just wants to keep the team together...that's why he's not rocking the boat by publicly saying what he (might be) feeling...

There's nothing that drags a team down more than when the coach and captain don't see eye-to-eye...

Is SA's case, the coach was the one who had to pack his bags (Smith vs Jennings, last year)

[Easa]

Originally Posted by IMMY69 i think you are losing the plot my man... firstly jayasuriya did play in the test matches...and u have to remember we played without shoiab and rana so that evens out the bowling score... and you may just about recall that sri lanka just drew with england in england without attapatu and zoysa... you talk about full strength windies team not being easy to beat...but u forget all about the contract fiasco between the board and its players and that there was even talk of a players strike just before the final test match...add to that lara was a very unhappy captain due to the selectors not picking the team he wanted and that the toss seemed to be a lottery in the last test match since the pitch was clearly underprepared...if u didnt watch the game on tv then just look back at the scorecard and you'll know what i am talking about... the bottom line is that since the aussie series where we lost the series without inzy (back injury), shoiab akhtar (in the last test match)...and with two rookie openers...and against a rampant aussie side which had not yet lost the ashes..., we have yet to lose a test series, at home or abroad...and if you check the pakistan stats back to 2000 you will see if anything we had a better away record then a home record so if anything bob woolmer has done a great deal for the country since we have won ever single home series (barring the draw against sri lanka) since bob was made coach...with respect to series overseas, outside asia we have only played the windies, and that too without shoiab akhtar for the entire srries and without inzy for the first test match..and still managed to win the last test match to draw the series..if only there was more then just two test matches then who knows we may have even come out on top...

Brilliant post. Couldn't have put it any better.

[KB]

This idea of India's record under Chappell or Pakistan's record under Woolmer, is somewhat misleading.

India have not played under Chappell, they have played under Dravid. Pakistan have not played under Woolmer, they have played under Inzamam.

Wins and losses go against the captain not the coach, as it is the captain who is the real leader not the coach.

[mulan]

Originally Posted by ggm This idea of India's record under Chappell or Pakistan's record under Woolmer, is somewhat misleading. India have not played under Chappell, they have played under Dravid. Pakistan have not played under Woolmer, they have played under Inzamam. Wins and losses go against the captain not the coach, as it is the captain who is the real leader not the coach.

Not if a coach has as much verbal diarrhoea as Chappel...

[Long_Live_Pakistan]

Originally Posted by mulan Sorry...that last sentence should have had this smilie ( ) at the end...It was said kinda tongue-in-cheek. I'm actually a BIG Indian cricket fan...Also Sri Lanka....New Zealand... etc etc etc

hahhahha....cool.....

[W63L35]

Originally Posted by mulan Not if a coach has as much verbal diarrhoea as Chappel....

[Manojcricket]

GS - the numbers do not mean much - the ODI record is good but remember its 100% inside the sub continent and the moment we went out of town , we lost 1-4 to a team as mediocre as the WI

more important : test record has been poor - u need to look at the quaility behind the numbers - remember the way India lost in Karachi and again against England ...the last test win in Jamaica is down to one man : Rahul Dravid. Period. (though overall in the series , u had heartening performances from Jaffer , Munaf . Sreesanth and Sehwag as well - but the last test proves people like Jaffer or Yuvi ir Kaif are still an unknown quantity under testing conditions)

You need to look at underlying fundamentals - has the quality of the various people's cricket gone up ? Name one example. Have weaknesses been rooted out ? Do we have a bowling attack that can take 20 wickets in a match ? No. Do we have 3 batsmen in the team that can perform in ANY condition whatsoever like Dravid does ? No. What significant improvements has he brought in ? which long term potentials has he shortlisted with a view to grooming for the future ?
Nothing has changed since he took over except for the worse.

So $crew the numbers - GS has done incalulable harm to Indian cricket - he is there with a personal agenda - impose his own way of doing things , remove people he deosn't like for whatever reason , add whoever he likes for that reason , insult and make serious unrpoven allegations against the most successful captain ever , and overall he has basically screwed up the atmosphere in the team - and all the time benefting from 'serving' the richest board in international cricket.
Hey . i'll still grant him all that - and more - if he makes a serious difference to the team's performance..has he been able to do that ? No. Will he do that in the future ? I dunno - for all our sakes , i hope he does .

[jusarrived]

The record looks good inspite of chappel,not b'cos of chappell..I have lost all respect for him!