When Will He Stop Moaning?

[Amoeba]

"I think he's had a very difficult job," said Fletcher. "Of all the captains I've been involved with - right from Nasser Hussain through Michael Vaughan, Marcus Trescothick, Flintoff and Strauss - he's had the most difficult job by far. He's done it when four or five major players are missing and that's not easy. It's difficult enough when you've got your full side."

So the unashamed chinless wonder is at it again . He's done an amazing job, for a Zimbo, at imitating a whinging whining Pom !

Well I have news for you Fletch Pakistan also have injury worries and were missing 5 first teamers at Lords. So you can't use that excuse anymore. Please Oh Please Shut The... Up!

[Mo.]

Who's he talking about?

[Amir]

I believe either STrauss or Flintoff, but the orginal poster has apoint. Too many excuses. What do you think Inzi has to deal with right now? Atleast England have their talsiman coming back. Simon Jones is being made out to be god, GIles is was a blessing getting injured, and Vaughan will play one big knock per series.

Pakistan are missing their main strike bowlers like Shoaib and ASif who help us take 20 wickets. I wish he would stop with the excuses, his team should be able to win easily now.

[ehjaz]

Originally Posted by Mo. Who's he talking about?

I think Strauss...............

[Amoeba]

He's talking about Strauss - after Lords.

Giles is proof that the less you play the better you become. Suddenly he's become World Class - well in Fletch's eyes (only).

[Easa]

More excuses.

I think England are forgetting that we are missing Shoaib, Asif, Rana, Younis, and Malik as well.

[iZeeshan]

I like Amir's and Amoeba's point.

Inzi has to deal with much more then Strauss. Us losing Shoaib, Asif, and Rana (our best 3 bowlers) is like Strauss losing Hoggard, Harmison, and Jones. And who is he missing out of them? Jones, the worst ones. Heck, Harmison and Hoggard were his best bowlers.

[Officer Barbrady]

He has a point. Captaining for the first time with many important players injured against a good team is difficult. But he's still got a decent bunch of players to deal with.

[Officer Barbrady]

Originally Posted by Xzianghow© I like Amir's and Amoeba's point. Inzi has to deal with much more then Strauss. Us losing Shoaib, Asif, and Rana (our best 3 bowlers) is like Strauss losing Hoggard, Harmison, and Jones. And who is he missing out of them? Jones, the worst ones. Heck, Harmison and Hoggard were his best bowlers.

You missed Flintoff, probably the best of the lot. Jones has an excellent record.

The backup pacemen (Tremlett, Andersen) are also injured. I think Fletcher was commenting on Strauss's first test as captain not really comparing man for man with Pakistan.

[entralinks]

Don't see a problem here, something's wrong with us.

[Amoeba]

Fletch can't keep using injuries as an excuse. Yes it was Strauss's first test and that makes it difficult but only if the opposition is at full strength. We were not. Therefore it is not valid as both teams were hampered.

By this notion Fletch's statement would be equally valid if say the opposition was Bangladesh - as it doesn't matter who you play just your own situation.

Just more whinging really. Time to shut up and grow a chin......

[iZeeshan]

But he also had Harmison and Hoggard to back him up remember? And his best batsmen were also there (Tresco, KP, and Straws.

[Swaraj!!]

Dont see why you would be bothered about this. He was talking about his captain, and explaining stuff about his team to his country's media. Whatever world they are living in let them be and swallow your bile.

[Oxy]

I dont see the problem with what Fletcher has said (and lets face it, he's spoken a lot of bakwaas in the last few months).

He has a valid point (from the extracts that are posted).

There's nothing disparaging about Pak, or the players or our captain, our coach, our tactics.

People should read it the quotes before commenting???????

[Amoeba]

The point is that Fletcher once again is using the excuse of Injuries to hide behind to explain his team's timid approach. Yes it is a fact that they were missing players - no one denies that. However Pakistan were missing players as well. Therefore it isn't justified or valid.

It doesn't have to be disparaging against Pakistani players to be a load of baloney. Many England fans that I have spoken to can see through Fletcher's excuses as well.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by Oxy™ I dont see the problem with what Fletcher has said (and lets face it, he's spoken a lot of bakwaas in the last few months). He has a valid point (from the extracts that are posted). There's nothing disparaging about Pak, or the players or our captain, our coach, our tactics. People should read it the quotes before commenting???????

Somehow I doubt you would have posted that if Bob had said those things. I can imagine you getting all worked up about Bob making excuses already.

[Raz]

Originally Posted by Hash Somehow I doubt you would have posted that if Bob had said those things. I can imagine you getting all worked up about Bob making excuses already.

The difference here is bro that it would indeed be shocking if Bob said something along those lines, simple because he prefers not hide behind excuses involving injuries to players, staying in 5 star hotels etc.

Fletcher on the other hand does this regularly, therefore his comments are not surprising anymore.

[Oxy]

Originally Posted by Hash Somehow I doubt you would have posted that if Bob had said those things. I can imagine you getting all worked up about Bob making excuses already.

I love Bob Woolmer - nothing he says would upset me....

Thing with Fletcher is that he has to justify his teams disappointing result to Eng fans/Media. After the Pak tour he did it by being CRITICAL of 'Pakistan' - as long as he keeps 'us' out f it - he can say what he wants....

[zMario]

Originally Posted by Oxy™ I love Bob Woolmer - nothing he says would upset me.... Thing with Fletcher is that he has to justify his teams disappointing result to Eng fans/Media. After the Pak tour he did it by being CRITICAL of 'Pakistan' - as long as he keeps 'us' out f it - he can say what he wants....

Remember the hotel excuse, that was the best on ever made!

[prepare]

Originally Posted by Amoeba "I think he's had a very difficult job," said Fletcher. "Of all the captains I've been involved with - right from Nasser Hussain through Michael Vaughan, Marcus Trescothick, Flintoff and Strauss - he's had the most difficult job by far. He's done it when four or five major players are missing and that's not easy. It's difficult enough when you've got your full side." So the unashamed chinless wonder is at it again . He's done an amazing job, for a Zimbo, at imitating a whinging whining Pom ! Well I have news for you Fletch Pakistan also have injury worries and were missing 5 first teamers at Lords. So you can't use that excuse anymore. Please Oh Please Shut The... Up!

6 if u include shabbir who probabaly would have played with top 3 out if his action was ok

[TaZ]

I agree. The man is a habitual moaner. We've got similar (or worse) problems but what can you do.

[Amoeba]

Originally Posted by Oxy™ I love Bob Woolmer - nothing he says would upset me.... Thing with Fletcher is that he has to justify his teams disappointing result to Eng fans/Media. After the Pak tour he did it by being CRITICAL of 'Pakistan' - as long as he keeps 'us' out f it - he can say what he wants....

But it can still be seen to be utter tosh in the clear light of day and England fans are beginning to tire of such excuses.

[IMMY69]

I think its absolutely great that fletcher is coming out with excuses...its shows you his mindset and this also reflects the mindset of the players...

one thing that fletch did well for the first 5 years of this reign was not to make excuses..but suddenly since the loss to pakistan in pakistan all he has been doing is making excuses...once u accept mentally that you have a weakness (be they injuries or whatever) then you are one step towards losing...So i'm really glad that pakistan (bob and inzy) are not making any excuses...it shows players have accepted the situation and are getting on with it...

its amazing how different the two camps are in their mindset...the one that accepts what the have got and makes the best of it will come out winners in this series and in my mind pakistan are leading the way...

[Amoeba]

Originally Posted by IMMY69 I think its absolutely great that fletcher is coming out with excuses...its shows you his mindset and this also reflects the mindset of the players... one thing that fletch did well for the first 5 years of this reign was not to make excuses..but suddenly since the loss to pakistan in pakistan all he has been doing is making excuses...once u accept mentally that you have a weakness (be they injuries or whatever) then you are one step towards losing...So i'm really glad that pakistan (bob and inzy) are not making any excuses...it shows players have accepted the situation and are getting on with it... its amazing how different the two camps are in their mindset...the one that accepts what the have got and makes the best of it will come out winners in this series and in my mind pakistan are leading the way...

Top post mate
Completely agree

[Oxy]

Nasser Hussain - when he was the captain - no excuses.

[IMMY69]

Originally Posted by Amoeba Top post mate Completely agree

u see its quiet simple...the signals that they send out by making such statements and by their overcauticous declaration is 'WE ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH' without our star players...and if this is their belief and they carry this through to the ashes then i see them taking a real hammering...i still see aussies beating them 2 or 3/1 if england had a fully fit side but if england carry on as they are then 5 nil is a possibility..the aussies are seeking revenge big time...watch out england...

[IMMY69]

Originally Posted by Oxy™ Nasser Hussain - when he was the captain - no excuses.

you make a very very good observation...nasser hussain was a no nonsense captain and vaughn is similar in his approach, only that he doesnt bollock his players like hussain used too...

so can it be that england upsurgance over the last 5 years has got a lot to do with hussain and vaughn and less to do with fletcher???

[Amoeba]

Originally Posted by IMMY69 you make a very very good observation...nasser hussain was a no nonsense captain and vaughn is similar in his approach, only that he doesnt bollock his players like hussain used too... so can it be that england upsurgance over the last 5 years has got a lot to do with hussain and vaughn and less to do with fletcher???

It has a lot to do with Hussain. Remember Fletch got the job on his recommendation.

Nas was a tough no nonsense mentally tough kind of player - which must have been more than partly due to his Asian roots. He changed the team from a losing team to a winning team. One of the hardest things to do - one which Inzy has done as well. He laid the foundation for Vaughan. Before Nas English cricket was a joke.

Nas gets too little praise and Vaughan far too much. From what I saw first hand I wouldn't rate Vaughan particularly highly for his tactical awareness. He may well be a good man-manager but he also has had a better set of players to work with than previous skippers.

[IMMY69]

Originally Posted by Amoeba It has a lot to do with Hussain. Remember Fletch got the job on his recommendation. Nas was a tough no nonsense mentally tough kind of player - which must have been more than partly due to his Asian roots. He changed the team from a losing team to a winning team. One of the hardest things to do - one which Inzy has done as well. He laid the foundation for Vaughan. Before Nas English cricket was a joke. Nas gets too little praise and Vaughan far too much. From what I saw first hand I wouldn't rate Vaughan particularly highly for his tactical awareness. He may well be a good man-manager but he also has had a better set of players to work with than previous skippers.

agree completely with you....nasser should get a lot of credit for the way england are playing now (or should i say upto 2005)...vaughn inhereted a winning team making his life a lot easier...also he played all his international career under hussain and that would have helped him hone his skills as a captain and as a player he could see what hussain lacked and apply that himself (i.e. be freindlier with players etc etc)...Hussain set it all up for him and shoul have also met the queen and handed his obe together with the rest of ashes winning team last year!!!!

[Amoeba]

Originally Posted by IMMY69 agree completely with you....nasser should get a lot of credit for the way england are playing now (or should i say upto 2005)...vaughn inhereted a winning team making his life a lot easier...also he played all his international career under hussain and that would have helped him hone his skills as a captain and as a player he could see what hussain lacked and apply that himself (i.e. be freindlier with players etc etc)...Hussain set it all up for him and shoul have also met the queen and handed his obe together with the rest of ashes winning team last year!!!!

Definately deserved it more than Belly and Colly!