Future Pakistani Pure Pace Prospects

[Mercenary]

Watching this test series vs England makes me wonder whether the future really is bright and green. The Pakistani bowlers have been uninspiring and medium paced.

Where's the Sami that clocked 97mph in Sharjah? Where's the Sami that was neck and neck for pace with Akhtar during the 2004 series with India??

Even Gul clocked a few deliveries at 90mph before his stress fracture but nowadays it seems that he's scared to bend his back and who could blame him?

Akhtar himself is not far from retirement, Asif isnt pure pace and Rana hasnt proven himself test standard.

So is that it? Is the future of Pakistani bowling medium pace? Are we the new India?

Well let's have a look at some bowlers that might just buck that trend and bring the pace back to where it belongs. The bowlers are listed in order of supposed speed...

Tanveer Zeeshan - His pace was reported in the Jang and his existence was confirmed by Woolmer who said he had genuine pace! He's reported to be a 150kph bowler and is currently working on his strength, stamina and fitness in the PCB Academy. Is he being held back as a secret weapon for the World Cup or is he just not ready yet??

Yasir Ali - He's supposed to be 90mph+ but we have no proof of this as of yet, not only that but after some excellent performances for the 'A team' he seems to have disappeared from the radar. We saw him bowl vs Bangladesh in 2003 at 17 years of age and he was generating a lot of pace even at that young age. Has he matured and got even faster or are we chasing yet another phantom?

Yasir Arafat - We've all seen him clock 90mph vs England in Pakistan but his average speed is around 88mph. He's definitely an exciting prospect but at 25 years of age and already filled out, he's unlikely to get much faster than that. Still bowling upto 90mph is nothing to be sniffed at!

Mohammad Irshad - At one time he was touted as a 90mph+ speed demon but after watching him bowl it seems that perhaps he's not what we hoped for. I refuse to write him off based on one performance but even if he is 90mph+ his performances for the A team are sporadic and he does get smacked around all over the place. Do we really need another Sami?

Akhtar Ayub - Ayub clocked 88.2mph in the u19 world cup at just 19 years of age! If he continues growing as a player then hopefully he will be 90mph+ in a couple of years. The important thing about Ayub is that we have seen him bowl and he is a very smart bowler, hopefully he can only get better with age!

Kamran Shehzad - He won the pace competition with a speed of 87.4mph, we havent heard anything about him since then. I cant find his name in the Pakistan domestic stats so it seems he isnt playing domestic yet perhaps he was too young or maybe he has been discarded just like the winner of the last speed competition who was supposed to be trained in Australia!!

Jamshed Ahmed - I know we shouldnt compare players to previous greats but there was only one thing that came to mind whilst watching Jamshed bowl and that was his similarity to Wasim Akram. He was one of the u19 trio that defended a score of around 100 runs vs India in the u19 WC final. He's 17 years old and still has to fill out and put on muscle yet he's already clocking 86.1mph. Hopefully with the right training and nurture he will be clocking 90mph+ when he's in his 20's.

Mohammad Talha - Talha is a PakPassion exclusive. Aaqib Javed revealed his name to us during the interview with Farhad. Many were skeptical because thye had never heard of the name before but all that was about to change! Aaqib said Talha was a 16 year old who was already bowling at 85mph, then this was confirmed when Talha clocked 84.5mph to come fourth in the Pepsi Pace competition! Talha was also fast tracked to the u19 team but lost his place in the end due to the superior skills of Jamshed, Ayub and Anwer!!

...so let's not panic. There is pace coming through the ranks but it looks like we might have to wait 3 to 5 years for them to burst onto the scene!!

[Nauman]

Merc thing is all these bowlers would go to academies get their actions remodelled and when we see them again they will be rubish bowling at 70mph.

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by Nauman Merc thing is all these bowlers would go to academies get their actions remodelled and when we see them again they will be rubish bowling at 70mph.

That's what we're all afraid of!!

Irshad and Rauf are two cases in point!! Maybe we can even add Sami to that list

[Disco_Lemonade]

hmm.. by the reading this... it seems that if we handle them properly... we can have two 90 mph bowlers opening our bowling... InshAllah!

[Whippy]

One day Shabbir Ahmed will be back to save the day

[iZeeshan]

They clock the speeds now, but like Nuaman said, when the get their action set, they will start bowling at 70. That maybe true in some, but it doesn't have to be true in all. We do have talent coming up, but I want the PCB to use it right.

[aabbasi]

Originally Posted by Nauman Merc thing is all these bowlers would go to academies get their actions remodelled and when we see them again they will be rubish bowling at 70mph.

Completely agree with nauman here...

As we have heard the famous notion
"Neem Hakeem khatra-e-Jaan... Thats what our academies are..."

[Billy]

I don't think Jamsehd needs to work on speed.

He'd be fine at 85 or 86MPH with the kind of control he's got.

[tradecars]

the problem seems to be the fact the selectors and bob are afraid or not confident enough to try out one of these young guys.
they keep saying they are too young or hvent filled out yet which is a load of rubish.
back in the day these boys would have been tried and tested
now days its not the case . we have a load of idiots for selectors . and for some reason bob just doesnt want raw kids in his team

[safehands46]

Originally Posted by tradecars the problem seems to be the fact the selectors and bob are afraid or not confident enough to try out one of these young guys. they keep saying they are too young or hvent filled out yet which is a load of rubish. back in the day these boys would have been tried and tested now days its not the case . we have a load of idiots for selectors . and for some reason bob just doesnt want raw kids in his team

Bob has a throw back of the western side of cricket which assumes that players come through the domestic circuit. But he doesnt realize that the talent actually becomes stagnant. Plus you have to be a visionary to groom and stick with a erratic youngster in the international arena.

[bakarashi]

Pakistan's inept Opening combination betrays scarcity of really redoubtable pace reserve in the domestic circle. I expect the intelligence to understand the sense, the above-sentence makes.I fear the notion that Pakistan soon might follow the track, Yesterday's deadly weapons, today innocuous and toothless attack- West Indies is on; Pakistan must find out its luck from the streets and ordinary play grounds, ''kabhi kabhi ghodrion mein bhi laal mil jatey hein''--- ''Sometimes precious stones locate themselves in mendicant's belongings''.

[Hari Sombar]

Guyz bowlings not all about speed! A team does not need every bowler to be fast to be good.
So as u guys are sayin, lets not panic a fast bowler is apperaing! U panicking because u aint got a fast bowler.

[Kamranz]

Mercenary: You left out another decent bowler Anwar Ali U19!

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by Kamranz Mercenary: You left out another decent bowler Anwar Ali U19!

The title is pure pace and Anwer will be around Gul/Asif's pace and not 90mph+ which is why he isnt included. It's also why Najaf Shah misses out.

I do agree with you that Anwer is a good prospect but I have my doubts about him performing when the conditions arent favourable.

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by Hari Sombar Guyz bowlings not all about speed! A team does not need every bowler to be fast to be good. So as u guys are sayin, lets not panic a fast bowler is apperaing! U panicking because u aint got a fast bowler.

i agree its not abt speed, but speed is a very big adavantage. every good bowlinh side has one guy who can bowl at good pace, shoaib akhtar, harmison, bond, lee, ntini. and these guys make the bowling attack so much better.
besides, we r used to seeing bowlers with good pace in our team always. waqar younis, wasim, imran, shoaib. thats y we care about pace. indian for example, have never experienced such a bowler in their side coz they cant find that kind of talent anywhere.

[Sonny]

The interesting thing is we're not giving many of these talented bowlers a chance.

Especially Yasir Arafat, whose statistics prove he is bowling well in English conditions, and also batting well.

His style is typical of a Pakistani bowler, full and straight, and a nice action.

So where is he? How come he hasn't been drafted in? You'd think with all these injuries he would have got a match, so why hasn't he?

This decision has left me bemused.

I'd like to know the reason of it.

Also now we have Waqar Younis as a bowling coach, atleast we could have bought some of these bowlers like Yasir Arafat, and it would have been excellent learning for them under Waqar.

[in_cutter]

Does'nt matter about all the bowling talent we have...it is all about SIFARISH

[Kamranz]

I just hate Line and Length style of bowling! We always had attacking firey bowlers like Imran Wasim and Waqar. Toe crashing yorkers, Slow balls and bouncers with swing.

Now, I'd like to see the same style in upcomming youngsters like the past greats - Thinking bowlers.

Brazilian football is about Attacking and Skill. They keep the tradition going. We need to do the same keep Swing and attack style going thats our style not "Stupid line and length all the time".

[pakistani pride]

there is enough talent in pak BUT are they give a chance ?

[Gunner786]

well we have asif for say 12-15 more years

hes only 23 atm,

and najaf shah,

but thats just about it,

looks like ur right...

[sharuk]

Why dont you post this on BOb's website

[Kamranz]

Yea post this msg on Bobs website and add our (Public concerns) in ur message too.

I think its right time to groom few more players before the World cup.

[i m gr8]

I say dont put to much hope on Asif , We are already thinking he is some kind of revolution only after two series ... lol

I agree he bowled great in the two series , but before putting all your hopes on Asif as most people I have seen here are doing , Atleast give him 2 years , We will then really know what bowler he is .

[Officer Barbrady]

Jamshed and Arafat are not genuine quick bowlers. Neither is Irshad.

I haven't seen the rest.

There is no such thing as World Cup secret weapons.

[Schiller]

No real pacers in the wings. Face it.

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by sharuk Why dont you post this on BOb's website

Bob has worked with Yasir Arafat in the first team.

He's worked with Mohammad Irshad and Yasir Ali in the A team.

He's seen Jamshed Ahmed, Akhtar Ayub, Kamran Shehzad and Mohammad Talha in various training camps that have been held.

He also confirmed the existence of Tanveer Zeeshan and called him a genuine pace prospect. So Bob already knows all about these bowlers.

[mlegha1]

There will be another Shoaib keep the faith the land of the Pure will give us another speed demon like it always has.

[infamous9383]

Akthar Ayub might be our best opener

[Oxy]

What has been the difference in this current series so far? It's been Steve Harmison's 10 wkt haul - where he basically terrorised our batsman at Old Trafford.

He bowled with pace and hostility - yet one thing Harmison is renowned for is lack of consistency and direction - he sprays it around more often than not. But when he's on target, he gets wickets and wins matches.

THATS why express pace is vital to a team like Pak. We've had it with Imran, Waqar, Wasim and Shoaib. And that is what is missing. As a n Eng batsman, would I rather be facing gently 80 mph deliveries or a wayward speedster that may be off target, but will surprise you by knocking your head off with a 95mph ripper.

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by Oxy™ What has been the difference in this current series so far? It's been Steve Harmison's 10 wkt haul - where he basically terrorised our batsman at Old Trafford. He bowled with pace and hostility - yet one thing Harmison is renowned for is lack of consistency and direction - he sprays it around more often than not. But when he's on target, he gets wickets and wins matches. THATS why express pace is vital to a team like Pak. We've had it with Imran, Waqar, Wasim and Shoaib. And that is what is missing. As a n Eng batsman, would I rather be facing gently 80 mph deliveries or a wayward speedster that may be off target, but will surprise you by knocking your head off with a 95mph ripper.

exactly, thats y im fed up with many people saying that pace doesnt matter and bla bla bla.. pace does matter, ask the batsmen who have to face it

[jalex382]

Originally Posted by waqar_ahmad exactly, thats y im fed up with many people saying that pace doesnt matter and bla bla bla.. pace does matter, ask the batsmen who have to face it

I second that.

Difference between medium pacer and sheer pace is that.

Batsmen make mistake and get out to mediem pacer. But sheer pacer forces batsmen to make mistake and get out.

[infamous9383]

Sami could have been that bowler but suddenly hes a medium pacer

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by abdul9383 Sami could have been that bowler but suddenly hes a medium pacer

lack of confidence and fear of being hit around

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by Oxy™ What has been the difference in this current series so far? It's been Steve Harmison's 10 wkt haul - where he basically terrorised our batsman at Old Trafford.

Exactly. If Zahid hadnt got injured and we'd had Akhtar and Zahid tearing in bowling at 100mph from each end we would have terrorised the worlds batsmen!!

We need another 95mph opening partnership like Wasim and Waqar in their heyday. I know those sorts of bowlers come along once in a lifetime but we can be greedy right?

[Anwar]

Where all the Fast bowlers hiding!?!?!?!!

We are Pakistan a nation known in the cricket world for producing EXPRESS PACE bowlers since the days of Imran Wasim and Waqar.

There have been alot of PACE bowlers since the Imran Era and some havent worked and we have found Shoaib.

I have been READING about the PACE prospects from Pakistan for MONTHS and yet no sign of ANYONE breaking through to the Pakistan side with 3 first team Pacers Injured.

After WATCHING the U-19 Final i was SO happy not just because we won but becasue i saw three wonderful FAST Bowlers in Jamshed Ahmed, Anwar Ali and Akhtar Ayub.

I was so Exicited about this as i felt Pakistan needed some fresh blood in the Fast bowling department. i was even more EXCITED after the news that they have been put in Pakistan Acadamy and therefore part of the "SETUP".

However thre has been NO News or NO SIGN of these bowlers?!?!

The biggest dissapointment for me is Yasir Arafat not being picked. He got 9 wickets V England in tour game last year. He impressed in the ODIs V England Last year and has been playing well for Sussex proving he is good in ENGLISH CONDTIONS.

Arafat to me would of been an obvious choice for Pakistan @ Old Trafford but not according to Bob and the Selectors. And How Wonderfully well our medium pacers dont in that match!

COULD it possibly be a total change in attitude due to Bob Woolmer? Bob and the SELECTORS just dont want to give a RAW young PACER a chance!!!

WHEN WILL WE SEE A NEW EXPRESS FAST BOWLER FOR PAKISTAN AGAIN???

[akpower]

Originally Posted by Oxy™ What has been the difference in this current series so far? It's been Steve Harmison's 10 wkt haul - where he basically terrorised our batsman at Old Trafford. He bowled with pace and hostility - yet one thing Harmison is renowned for is lack of consistency and direction - he sprays it around more often than not. But when he's on target, he gets wickets and wins matches. THATS why express pace is vital to a team like Pak. We've had it with Imran, Waqar, Wasim and Shoaib. And that is what is missing. As a n Eng batsman, would I rather be facing gently 80 mph deliveries or a wayward speedster that may be off target, but will surprise you by knocking your head off with a 95mph ripper.

Harmison is most often accurate then not. That is why he is a world class bowler. Pace is great if u can be on target for the majority of the time, otherwise its rubbish

[bakarashi]

who is zahid?

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by bakarashi who is zahid?

read these...

Mohammad Zahid: Pakistan's other 100mph man!!

*****AMAZING!!!: Zahid Likely broke 100mph***** Young Waqar to be measured next.....

[Nauman]

Originally Posted by bakarashi who is zahid?

Mohommad Zahid, he was probably quicker then Shoaib.

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by Nauman Mohommad Zahid, he was probably quicker then Shoaib.

Could you imagine post-2003 when the W's retired. If we had Zahid and Akhtar opening the bowling at around 100mph and Sami coming on first change bowling 95mph+

The would have scorched the pitch and the stadium would have gone up in flames

[Serendipity]

First of all, great post, Merc. Very good, keep it going.

Secondly, remodelled actions, reduced pace and unwillingness to try raw talent (as has been the custom and uniqueness about Pak) are major concerns, At least try one or two for a while?

I think, not completely sure, Indians are doing better with Young fast bowlers than we are? Sresanth, Munaf and so on look better placed given their short careers for some reason! What is going on?

Some one really needs to look at this seriously and soon!

[Billy]

Originally Posted by akpower Harmison is most often accurate then not.

Could someone please tell this to big Steve?

kthnxbye

[Slugger]

the problem is that pakistan cricket is concentrated and isn't really a nationwide sport due to the lack of facilities in a lot of areas

we have karachi, a few cities in punjab and a few cities in nwfp that's it

[nadeem]

Awesome thread Merc and very informative too. Well done bro.

[Sultan Yusuf]

Originally Posted by Mercenary Bob has worked with Yasir Arafat in the first team. He's worked with Mohammad Irshad and Yasir Ali in the A team. He's seen Jamshed Ahmed, Akhtar Ayub, Kamran Shehzad and Mohammad Talha in various training camps that have been held. He also confirmed the existence of Tanveer Zeeshan and called him a genuine pace prospect. So Bob already knows all about these bowlers.

So if he does, then the blame lies squarely with him for not playing them yet!

[infamous9383]

akthar ayub might be it because hes the first u19 bowler to make it into the 30 man probable for champions trophy

[Sultan Yusuf]

Originally Posted by abdul9383 akthar ayub might be it because hes the first u19 bowler to make it into the 30 man probable for champions trophy

Unfortunately, I highly doubt he'll make the cut for the last 15, never mind XI.

I think it's time to face it. Pakistani pace bowling will be dead while the current management are in charge.

We're gonna have a production line of khalils and zalils!

[infamous9383]

dont think hell make the final 15 either because for some reason woolmer doesnt like bringing young players to the team

[Kamranz]

Originally Posted by abdul9383 dont think hell make the final 15 either because for some reason woolmer doesnt like bringing young players to the team

Yeah! I felt the same too, I remember in World Cup 99 when they threw new faces in the World XI team.

I remember Charles (Sky sports host) said: Pakistan loves introducing young talented players. And they through them at the deep end to see what this kids got.

When i heard that line, I felt like "We're the brazilian of cricket". Just amazing feeling.

[Fessal]

whoevers getting the bowlers remodelling the actions at the academy? i don't know why. Maybe someone like wasim or waqar should be bowling coaches at the academy.

[Has]

A good mix of bowlers is needed, so pace has importance, but it is everything.

[Has]

Any more details on this Tanveer Zeeshan guy?

How old is he?

Does he play domestic cricket?

Is he in the A/Youth squad?

Any info at all?

[Slugger]

In Lieu of Merc's Concerns, Re: Pakistan's future of pace bowling, I would like to say that this should be a win-win opportunity. Pakistan Cricket should be in the business of International Cricket not whining. If there are upcoming pace bowlers that's well and good, if there aren't then we must change and adapt ourselves to make the best of line and length as a weapon. Pakistan had been gifted with a golden era of pace bowling that lasted longer then any other country. With Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Sarfaraz, Shoaib, Zahid, Sami (until he cut his run up) being the specifics. Can any other country boast such an accomplishment? In addition to the fact that we lack the domestic structure and the use of technology compared to Australia and England? Pace bowlers had a good run, if it means that we'll be switching over to line and length then the least it'll do is make teams rethink their strategy against Pakistan, but for now I say let's go with the flow and make the best of what we have.

[jackal786]

Fast bowlers job have become very difficult these days. It is a highly batsmen oriented game these days. Moreover number of Test matches played by each country has gone up. Sooner or later you find bowlers pullins muscle or something or the other and going away from the field for a while. What would a pace man want? Playing for country for long periods or sitting out for long periods?

[Mercenary]

Will any of these guys step up to the plate if Akhtar and Asif are out for a couple of years?

I think Yasir Ali and Akhtar Ayub should be part of the Windies test squad

[Amjid Javed]

I think yasir arafat and najaf shah should be looked at alongside Gul/s nazir for test series v West indies.

[Easa]

Great post, Merc. Didn't see this thread before.

Akhtar Ayub should be thrown into the deep end here.

[infamous9383]

no reason why the likes of attock expresses akthar ayub and yasir ali should be held back. Throw them in there along with yasir arafat and should gives us glimpse if future.

[akpower]

Originally Posted by jalex382 I second that. Difference between medium pacer and sheer pace is that. Batsmen make mistake and get out to mediem pacer. But sheer pacer forces batsmen to make mistake and get out.

pace matters when u have some control over it, like brett lee does. also u need to move the ball in some way...

[Mercenary]

After watching Rana and Nazir today, it makes me wonder if it isnt time to test the likes of Yasir Ali and Akhtar Ayub on the big stage!

Plus when is Tanveer Zeeshan going to be ready??

[Disco_Lemonade]

Not now as WC is just ahead. we have our two bowlers missing, shoaib and gul. after wc is the right time to introduce young guns.
I know Tanveer Zeeshan only through PakPassion! whats the update on him. Last time i remember a thread he completed his college.

[Ilyas]

Till the Year 2009, Pakistan will play along with Shoaib and Sami: However in Year 2009, you will see the emergence of an incredible fast bowler at Under 19 Level and he will be the answer to the sore eyes...

[PlanetPakistan]

Originally Posted by Mercenary After watching Rana and Nazir today, it makes me wonder if it isnt time to test the likes of Yasir Ali and Akhtar Ayub on the big stage! Plus when is Tanveer Zeeshan going to be ready??

M Irshad deserves to be mentioned here...the guy is not just quick but also has the ability to move the ball of the seam.

[safehands46]

Originally Posted by Kamranz Yeah! I felt the same too, I remember in World Cup 99 when they threw new faces in the World XI team. I remember Charles (Sky sports host) said: Pakistan loves introducing young talented players. And they through them at the deep end to see what this kids got. When i heard that line, I felt like "We're the brazilian of cricket". Just amazing feeling.

The difference between 99 and now is simply that pakistan looks to the a team to find its players rather than the u19. I think its good because as good as they look on tv i truly think that these bowlers are relatively raw and are nothing compared to our previous prospects physically.

[infamous9383]

bump

anyone have information on tanveer zeeshan? I mean where he is these days.

Others are in domestic cricket but no info on Zeeshan

[Monsee]

Originally Posted by Ilyas Till the Year 2009, Pakistan will play along with Shoaib and Sami: However in Year 2009, you will see the emergence of an incredible fast bowler at Under 19 Level and he will be the answer to the sore eyes...

So will he also come down in a space craft...

[DM]

Originally Posted by Monsee So will he also come down in a space craft...

71mph

[siddharth]

Originally Posted by Nauman Merc thing is all these bowlers would go to academies get their actions remodelled and when we see them again they will be rubish bowling at 70mph.

why would they ''remodel ''

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by infamous9383 bump anyone have information on tanveer zeeshan? I mean where he is these days. Others are in domestic cricket but no info on Zeeshan

If you wanted to know about Tanveer Zeeshan specifically then you bumped the wrong thread...

The Facts about Tanveer Zeeshan: Is he the next Shoaib?

...last we heard he was sitting some exams, maybe lahori can let us know how he did!

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by siddharth why would they ''remodel ''

Because really fast bowlers have actions that cause injuries and modern thinking is that the action should be changed to something safer but then that also makes them lose their pace. Irshad and Rauf are two cases in point!!

[siddharth]

Originally Posted by Mercenary Because really fast bowlers have actions that cause injuries and modern thinking is that the action should be changed to something safer but then that also makes them lose their pace. Irshad and Rauf are two cases in point!!

But isn't that true . Take for example Mohammed Zahid .When u give excess amount of pressure to ur back and shoulders .

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by siddharth But isn't that true . Take for example Mohammed Zahid .When u give excess amount of pressure to ur back and shoulders .

Shortly after Zahid's debut Waqar said Mohammad Zahid's action was an injury waiting to happen. Really fast bowlers put their bodies through hell and back. Perhaps you can name a 95mph+ bowler who's never had injuries?

Zahid, Waqar, Akhtar, Lee, Bond, Bishop have all been through injuries. Some of them career ending, others leaving them as shadows of their previous selves.

[DM]

Exactly merc. With rare exceptions, putting a human body through generating 95mph repeatedly will yield injury.

While Shoaib has had many injuries, compared to other 95mph bowlers, he must surely stand as one of the most enduring, in terms of maintaining top pace. He has regularly hit 95mph right throughout, and I have no doubt he'll do it again.

[octavian]

Sami hasnt really had a major injury and he used to bowl at 95+ consistantly at the start of his career. I wonder why has he lost so much pace ?

[DM]

I guess he has had a lot of minor injuries, tissue, tendon, ligaments that make it more difficult/painful to hit top speeds. His bones are probably riddled with microfractures, that would make it more painful to bowl faster.

[Megadeth]

curiously..how d you guys classify Javagal srinath?...When he first burst into the scene he was touted to be genuinely quick..even during the 2009 world-cup... Prior to his rotatory cuff surgery I would say he was India's genuine quick bowler...the pace dropped a few notches after the surgerybut was still in the early 90smph