Imran wants Kaneria/ Mohammad. Sami in Team

[JhonnyBravo]

i was listening to Imrans experties in which he strongly recommended that kaneria / sami should be part of Pakistans squad .. i beleive sami has done well in ODIs and he should have been called up however he is useless in tests i beleive Gul , Arafat , kaneria and S nazir will be our future test bowling line up however rana should be replaced by either sami or arafat .. however rana is a must when he regains his bowling rhythem what u think guys

[UJ]

Malik, Hafeez and Afridi showed yesterday that they are capable ODI spin bowlers. Adding Kaneria would add another liability to the field who can't hang on to a bat at all. We just dont need him in ODIs.

Sami is a decent ODI bowler, and considering Asif and Akhtar will play no further role in this tournament, it might have been a good idea to call him up.

[safehands46]

I think if the board stopped listening but see what imran does. A player he backs he backs a hundred percent. He believes in that player coming through sort of the old player in him. At this point sami shouldnt be called up.

[JhonnyBravo]

when Younis was not a regular member of team Imran predicted that he is our future captain and guess what his is .... i think his predictions are always right but he especially mentioned that indain wickets are going to suit kaneria .. but that does not mean that he should play at every venue

[cricket_crazy]

Kaneria is out of form basing from the Eng series, and his bowling is a liablility in ODIS, not to mention his fielding.
Current team is good, Sami has been aweful in odis as well but going by Rana's form, it is Sami vs Rana. I'd still go with Rana...

[cavin420]

Thread title should be " cavin wants Sami in the team, oh yeah & imran Khan too" !


that would deffo be the right selection, for sure , we need someone to run through NZ , who better than Sami boy ? ;)

[kablooee87]

Originally Posted by cavin420 Thread title should be " cavin wants Sami in the team, oh yeah & imran Khan too" ! that would deffo be the right selection, for sure , we need someone to run through NZ , who better than Sami boy ? ;)

I love how you don't actually make a point as to why you think Sami should be picked.....yet still somehow diguise it to be one.

[cavin420]

Originally Posted by kablooee87 I love how you don't actually make a point as to why you think Sami should be picked.....yet still somehow diguise it to be one.

You answered , your own Question .

[kablooee87]

Originally Posted by cavin420 You answered , your own Question .

oh ok, so you're saying you're all smoke a screens and no actual substance?

and btw, I wasn't asking a question.....

[cavin420]

Originally Posted by kablooee87 oh ok, so you're saying you're all smoke a screens and no actual substance? and btw, I wasn't asking a question.....

you like asking, and answering Question on my behalf , dont you ;)


Last time i checked, sami still GOT THE JOB done , in ODI's for Pakistan ,

Bowling at 90 mph, being the most Experience bowler out of the LOT is reason enough , in this in-experienced Bowling Attack , Ranaldinho aside (who isn't exactly in the best of Forms!

Not to forget , his ability to stick around with the Bat , and Field well!

[Easa]

I would have called up Sami instead of Abdul Rehman. Kaneria, because of his poor batting and useless fielding, does NOT warrant a place in the squad.

[cavin420]

Originally Posted by Easa I would have called up Sami instead of Abdul Rehman. Kaneria, because of his poor batting and useless fielding, does NOT warrant a place in the squad.

exactly, one of my other points , we are struggling in the pace department, not SPIN!

[Easa]

And waisay, I know exactly why Imran wants these two in the team.

Kaneria because he always used to back Abdul Qadir and believes that Kaneria will emulate the master. Imran used to belive that a legspinner in ODI's was an attacking option and should be used.

Sami, well because, Imran loves him. Sami does no wrong in Imran's eyes. Plus, because he USED to have pace.

Just my two cents.

[Easa]

Originally Posted by cavin420 exactly, one of my other points , we are struggling in the pace department, not SPIN!

Yeah. Btw, Sami no longer bowls at 90 MPH.

[cavin420]

Originally Posted by Easa And waisay, I know exactly why Imran wants these two in the team. Kaneria because he always used to back Abdul Qadir and believes that Kaneria will emulate the master. Imran used to belive that a legspinner in ODI's was an attacking option and should be used. Sami, well because, Imran loves him. Sami does no wrong in Imran's eyes. Plus, because he USED to have pace. Just my two cents.

nope, Sami was a find of his "Pepsi imran clinic" (talent search hunt in Pak, started by Imran) , so you can say Sami is actually imrans find, dont take it literally !


& sami still bowls in the 90's, what are you on about, just go back and look at the last test match, innings he bowled for Pakistan !

reached 92.8 mph, even after all that rubbish talk given to him by waqar younis!

[kablooee87]

Originally Posted by cavin420 you like asking, and answering Question on my behalf , dont you ;) Last time i checked, sami still GOT THE JOB done , in ODI's for Pakistan , Bowling at 90 mph, being the most Experience bowler out of the LOT is reason enough , in this in-experienced Bowling Attack , Ranaldinho aside (who isn't exactly in the best of Forms! Not to forget , his ability to stick around with the Bat , and Field well!

there, now was that so hard? actually backing up opinions with some substance?

Now I can actually either agree or disagree with you.....

Sami is not as low in the Pakistani bowling depth chart as selection makes it look. That is a fact. Even people who hate Sami can't deny that he is better than at least some players in the squad. What's the difference? One thing I have always hated about the PCB is that they don't take decisive action. Oh, this little thing happened, let's bring Sami back....oh Rana's out of form, let's take him out for now. No, you need to send clear messages.

The PCB persisted with Sami for quite some time. He didn't perform, they still stuck with him. It didn't pan out. That's it. He's had his chance, and he couldn't cut it. We can't just keep working on short term basis and bring him back for this little bit or that. Let's get the other bowlers who still have yet to show their true worth and see what they can do.

[kablooee87]

What kind of a message would calling up Sami send? Is he back in the mix? or is it just a temporary call up? IMO, if they called him up now, it would be a purely short term decision. If, on the other hand, they truly believed that he has shown SO much improvement that he really can play well for Pakistan. Then I'm all for that. But if they call him up, it can't be any tin pot lame temporary call up. You either bring him up and support him, or you leave him alone.

[cavin420]

there, now was that so hard? actually backing up opinions with some substance?



Running Through NZ, was enough Substance for the sharper minds to ponder up on not my fault, if you couldn't work it out!

Now I can actually either agree or disagree with you.....

Sami is not as low in the Pakistani bowling depth chart as selection makes it look. That is a fact. Even people who hate Sami can't deny that he is better than at least some players in the squad. What's the difference? One thing I have always hated about the PCB is that they don't take decisive action. Oh, this little thing happened, let's bring Sami back....oh Rana's out of form, let's take him out for now. No, you need to send clear messages.

The PCB persisted with Sami for quite some time. He didn't perform, they still stuck with him. It didn't pan out. That's it. He's had his chance, and he couldn't cut it. We can't just keep working on short term basis and bring him back for this little bit or that. Let's get the other bowlers who still have yet to show their true worth and see what they can do.

al though, in paragraph 1, you make a lot of sense, in para graph 2, i would just like to add this, SAMI IS THE FUTURE, no matter what the PCB think, here is a guy whose been worked at, way too much in my opinion, sometimes its best, if you leave a bowler with out giving any advice, soon as bob Woolmer took over, he had a thing with both Akhtar's & sami run-up, we all know what Akhtar did with the advice, Thank God for that, but sami suffered big time !

[kablooee87]

Do I think Sami is still capable of his old form?Sure. But we've gone through series after series. Giving him chance after chance, just hoping for him to find the form again. If you ask me, he was great on the tour to India when we were depleted in the bowling department. But he's just too inconsistent. After all those chances, the selectors have to make the decision, like they have, to move on. You have to come to terms with it.

[cavin420]

Originally Posted by kablooee87 Do I think Sami is still capable of his old form?Sure. But we've gone through series after series. Giving him chance after chance, just hoping for him to find the form again. If you ask me, he was great on the tour to India when we were depleted in the bowling department. But he's just too inconsistent. After all those chances, the selectors have to make the decision, like they have, to move on. You have to come to terms with it.

i disagree, what the selector's have been doing is, taking Test match form as a Gauge for the selection , in the ODI's .

which makes no sense , if you look at sami the ODI bowler, you would appreciate that he is decent enough to be included in the team , plus you would think with so much cricket being played around, you would actually have sami playing ODI's anyway or as back-up, i dont care about Test match cricket .

look Brett lee was not exactly setting the world on fire, in his early days, what ACB did ? they kept playing him in ODI's , and after 18 months of non-stop ODI cricket, he found out what was required for him to succeed at the Test level.

we should not get ahead of ourselves, like i said dont give a monkey's banana about Test cricket, in one day cricket he can be very useful, but whose going to tell this sane stuff to the selector's (who have got it horribly wrong ?

[161]

it seems like imran ,who was quite sharper in the past, has gone demented over the years.

on a side note - after seeing his rational (or lack there of) in cricket, i'd hope he doesn't make it in politics.

[safehands46]

Originally Posted by kashif77 it's seems imran (who was quite sharper in the past) has gone demented in over the years. on a side note - after seeing his rational (or lack there of) in cricket, i'd hope he doesn't make it in politics.

not that i care but if you notice one thing, Imran is the only one who supports a player thouroughly. Its not a matter of right or wrong. he is simply saying i support this guy I think hell come through. Its not a matter of hey he is the best player, its more i gave him my support I could wreck his career more if i say hey this guy sucks.

[Hashim]

imran is right sami should be called up immeditly

[shan]

we don't need malcom Sami

[infamous9383]

Sami has to show something before he gets back to the team. He needs to perform when given chances

[Kamranz]

Isnt it amazing to see people support Sami soon as Shoaib is out of CT. Remember his poor display in the PAK vs Eng this summer, yet becuz he USED to bowl 90+ they want him back in the team.

The guy had bloody too many chances. It's about time we just forget him and move on.

[Daoud]

Originally Posted by Kamranz Isnt it amazing to see people support Sami soon as Shoaib is out of CT. Remember his poor display in the PAK vs Eng this summer, yet becuz he USED to bowl 90+ they want him back in the team. The guy had bloody too many chances. It's about time we just forget him and move on.

Its called selective memory. Hopefully Gul can crank it up 1 more mph regularly and they'll forget Sami. For the best part of the Test series, Gul was quicker than Sami anyway

[infamous9383]

Originally Posted by Daoud Its called selective memory. Hopefully Gul can crank it up 1 more mph regularly and they'll forget Sami. For the best part of the Test series, Gul was quicker than Sami anyway

its is amazing how Gul bowls at the same pace as sami and shoaib

[KA$H]

i Cannot think of a more retroactive step than bringing back sami into the fold

[Hash]

Sami?

Oh please Imran.

[Amjid Javed]

Seems like Rosa is getting to imrans brain!

[Hash]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed Seems like Rosa is getting to imrans brain!

[Nauman]

Originally Posted by cavin420 i disagree, what the selector's have been doing is, taking Test match form as a Gauge for the selection , in the ODI's . which makes no sense , if you look at sami the ODI bowler, you would appreciate that he is decent enough to be included in the team , plus you would think with so much cricket being played around, you would actually have sami playing ODI's anyway or as back-up, i dont care about Test match cricket . look Brett lee was not exactly setting the world on fire, in his early days, what ACB did ? they kept playing him in ODI's , and after 18 months of non-stop ODI cricket, he found out what was required for him to succeed at the Test level. we should not get ahead of ourselves, like i said dont give a monkey's banana about Test cricket, in one day cricket he can be very useful, but whose going to tell this sane stuff to the selector's (who have got it horribly wrong ?

Lee was still 10 times the ODI bowler Sami is/was.

[infamous9383]

Sami is useless needs to find a differnent hair style me thinks

[inzidabest]

Kaneria, may be in place of Afridi. However I would prefer a spinner who can field well.
Sami ..well If Asif does not make it to the WC squad, Sami should be there. Atleast in the squad if not in the first 11

[Muyazzim Khan]

Kaneria cannot be considered for ODIs as he doesnt posess the skills to be a striking spinner like a Saqlain or a Mushy not even a Harbajan. He will most likely give extra runs in the field along with the ones he gives away with his bowling. All in all he is not equiped to handle ODI cricket.

As for Sami I am a fan but there comes a point when just admiring someones potential skill is not good enough. The end game is a successful team and Samis inclusion will not help us be a successful team. He is one player in Pak cricket history(like Ramiz Raja) who cannot complain about not being given a fair chance.

[Muhammad]

Originally Posted by Muyazzim Khan Kaneria cannot be considered for ODIs as he doesnt posess the skills to be a striking spinner like a Saqlain or a Mushy not even a Harbajan. He will most likely give extra runs in the field along with the ones he gives away with his bowling. All in all he is not equiped to handle ODI cricket.

Can't expect anything with the bat either.

[Gasherbrum]

sami needs atleast 6-12 months away from the Pakistan team to think about things. he may have the ability but we have seen how things so easily fall apart for him. he was called back too early for the england tour.

[Nauman]

I would like to have Mansoor Amjid in the team in place of Afridi though.

[xbox]

I think what pakistan need is a LEFT hand bating all-rounder who can also bowl. He doesn't have to be exlposive batsmen like afridi but a solid run a ball player. Also be able to bowl left arm. Qaisar Abbass or maybe Fawad Alam. Think about with Younis, Yousuf, Malik and a left hand player in the middle overs.

xbox

[Naveed]

I think that it is time to give up on Sami as a test bowler and focus on making him strictly a ODI specialist. He's a strong fielder, has had some success in bowling in the death overs and has potential with the bat. Focus on these strengths and he could become something useful.

[Muyazzim Khan]

Originally Posted by xbox I think what pakistan need is a LEFT hand bating all-rounder who can also bowl. He doesn't have to be exlposive batsmen like afridi but a solid run a ball player. Also be able to bowl left arm. Qaisar Abbass or maybe Fawad Alam. Think about with Younis, Yousuf, Malik and a left hand player in the middle overs. xbox

Sensible idea which I concur with.

[Zaman Park]

If Shoaib and Asif are banned for the World cup. And Rana is struggling with his form, maybe Pakistan should play Azhar Mahmood. It will definitely make a our batting more powerful. And in bowling, he can't do worse than Rana. Sami is not good enough. Given so many chances. Kaneira will be a huge liability in the field and as a batsmen.

[Muyazzim Khan]

Originally Posted by Zaman Park If Shoaib and Asif are banned for the World cup. And Rana is struggling with his form, maybe Pakistan should play Azhar Mahmood. It will definitely make a our batting more powerful. And in bowling, he can't do worse than Rana. Sami is not good enough. Given so many chances. Kaneira will be a huge liability in the field and as a batsmen.

Last time me and Monsee saw Azhar it looked he was due but I think he is actuallly due around World Cup time. Infact rumour has it he has been expecting since 1999 WC.

[octavian]

ohh plz no SAMI !!

[Hammad]

Kaneria is a liability in batting and fielding, and is no Shane Warne. So no sense in playing him. Whatever he could do, could be done by Afridi, Malik and Hafeez..maybe in 1 out of 30 mathes he might deliver, but cant take that chance, knowing full well that his batting and fielding capbailites..besides indians our potential rivals in the semis could handle him quite well....i think sami has been given too many chances already..if he it had in him, he would have imporoved after so much at international level..the guy sprays all over the place and has no sense while bowling...Imran keeps harping on the same theme...i think he has a hidden agenda here: he does not want Pakistan to win another world cup in his liftime so that his lone achievement would always stand out!! Besides he might be a great leader of men, but on more than one occassion he showed poor judgment , for example about the opener Mansoor Akhtar he presisted with for so long...his biases again Qasim omar, and Wasim Raja , and Younis Ahmed...He is very judgmental, subjective and at times unfairly biased for and against certain players!

[Sheikh_Chilli]

Sami is obviously talented, but does he have the temperament
to stick it out, when he is being hammered all over the field ?.

Him playing domestic cricket is not going to help him. No pressure,
no challange. He should go play country cricket.


Sheikh Chilli

[omidahomie]

Kaneria for me is still a test bowler...we saw yesterday that our spinners can handle the game pretty well in odi's. But yes i do want sami in the side....will make rana think or two about his bowling ryhtym.

[Muzy]

if Imran really wants Sami back in the team, Sami needs to be disciplined professionally, yes everyone keeps saying that he's had TOO many chances, he's still got some cricketing years left in him and YES maybe one day he can come back into the ODI side, but this can only happen if he is being taught properly and not the yida yada way and say 'yes old son you can come back into the team but you will be out as soon as u under-perform'

yes he has been given far too many chances, with asif and akhtar out for the time being or for how ever long that may be, IF Sami is worth coming back the selectors need to be sure he is in capable form to earn his place coz im sure there are others who are working really hard to earn a place in the international side but then again the selectors dont get it right we all know that for sure, i dont think Sami is finished yet thats all im saying

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by xbox I think what pakistan need is a LEFT hand bating all-rounder who can also bowl. He doesn't have to be exlposive batsmen like afridi but a solid run a ball player. Also be able to bowl left arm. Qaisar Abbass or maybe Fawad Alam. Think about with Younis, Yousuf, Malik and a left hand player in the middle overs. xbox

qaiser abbas is nowhere near good enough to be in pakistan odi team. we dont need a pakistani ian blackwell/irfan pathan!

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by cavin420 i disagree, what the selector's have been doing is, taking Test match form as a Gauge for the selection , in the ODI's . which makes no sense , if you look at sami the ODI bowler, you would appreciate that he is decent enough to be included in the team , plus you would think with so much cricket being played around, you would actually have sami playing ODI's anyway or as back-up, i dont care about Test match cricket . look Brett lee was not exactly setting the world on fire, in his early days, what ACB did ? they kept playing him in ODI's , and after 18 months of non-stop ODI cricket, he found out what was required for him to succeed at the Test level. we should not get ahead of ourselves, like i said dont give a monkey's banana about Test cricket, in one day cricket he can be very useful, but whose going to tell this sane stuff to the selector's (who have got it horribly wrong ?

samis record in last 12-15 monthshes played has been a joke. hes averaged about 1 wkt per match and his average/s.r and econ hasnt been to clever either.

Brett lee has been best odi bowler on performance for last 5 years!

no comparison at all!

[12thMan]

Imran Khan jo bolta hey bolnay do. Some ex-players like Imran, Aamir Sohail, Miandad are good for providing entertaintment

[xbox]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed qaiser abbas is nowhere near good enough to be in pakistan odi team. we dont need a pakistani ian blackwell/irfan pathan!

I don't know about Ian Blackwell but I will take Irfan Pathan over afridi any day. You are correct Qaisar Abbas is not that good and that is why I said someone like him not necessiraly him. A guy who can bat lef handed and can bowl some spin.

Trust me there are a lot of Iftikhar Anjum's in domestic cricket who aren't flashy like afridi. But these are hard working players who have passion, who can bat or bowl decent plus willing to improve. Everyone bashed Ifthikhar but the guy does his job.

I am not asking to kick afridi out but we have to have a backup plan. Guys who are ready to join and perform. This concept of not keeping too many players in backup because it will put an added pressure on existing player is CRAP. We have heard in past they didn't want to bring another keeper or Yassir because it will put added pressure on Razzak and Kamran. Sadly we do have this policy in place and thats called players power. Board is not the total responsible for this. This buddy system and grouping cause that. Once player establish themselves they don't want another player around them whould is competing for their job. I hope this will change some day. The day it will there is no way to stop us as a team.

xbox

[safehands46]

If imran was in the team he wouldnt play sami. He would have him in the squad to learn. He would think long term. His main squad would have gul,rana, and arafat. He would have malik in the 5 spot followed by akmal and so on. the openers would be hafeez and butt. yasir hammeed would be there too. if someone faltered.

[Daoud]

Originally Posted by safehands46 If imran was in the team he wouldnt play sami. He would have him in the squad to learn. He would think long term. His main squad would have gul,rana, and arafat. He would have malik in the 5 spot followed by akmal and so on. the openers would be hafeez and butt. yasir hammeed would be there too. if someone faltered.

How long will Sami learn though. Hes been 'learning' for 6 years now. It looked like he was finally living up to his expectations in 2003 after a 3 year period of apprenticeship. Then hes been degressing for the past 3 years

[safehands46]

Originally Posted by Daoud How long will Sami learn though. Hes been 'learning' for 6 years now. It looked like he was finally living up to his expectations in 2003 after a 3 year period of apprenticeship. Then hes been degressing for the past 3 years

same could have been said of shoaib or afridi but they played 6 years before they finally started performing on a consistent basis. personally i am not a sami fan. More of a gul fan. but I was just explaining why i think imran sometimes is stubborn. He supports players all out basically. If you have his support it takes alot to lose it. you have to do something darastic to get him to hate on you. because he feels the mind is bigger than any talent. so positivity fixes everything. If there is one thing pcb should learn to be is be loyal like imran dont back stab players and make them scapegoats.

[Daoud]

Originally Posted by safehands46 same could have been said of shoaib or afridi but they played 6 years before they finally started performing on a consistent basis. personally i am not a sami fan. More of a gul fan. but I was just explaining why i think imran sometimes is stubborn. He supports players all out basically. If you have his support it takes alot to lose it. you have to do something darastic to get him to hate on you. because he feels the mind is bigger than any talent. so positivity fixes everything. If there is one thing pcb should learn to be is be loyal like imran dont back stab players and make them scapegoats.

Shoaib played his first game in late 97
Within 6 years he had:
Taken a 5fer in SA helping us win a game
Had THAT spell at Calcutta
Had a very impressive World Cup
Single handedly beat South Africa in Sharjah
Did very well in various ODI series
Destroyed NZL on a pitch where Inzi scored a triple century
Won us the ODI series in Australia
Destroyed the Aussie batting lineup in Sri Lanka

By the time Shoaib had played for 6 years, he was arguably one of the premier fast bowlers in the world
In contrast, what has Sami done anything apart from performances vs NZL and his hatricks

Afridi is a different case cause no one knew what he was supposed to do, but even then during his first 6 years, even if he failed with the bat he was our best fielder and was a very good bowler

[Easa]

And Lee did not make an average start to his career, Cavin.

[Daoud]

Originally Posted by Easa And Lee did not make an average start to his career, Cavin.

True. He started off spectacularly, but declined spectacularly in Tests. But at the same time, he was an incredible ODI bowler. Took over 20 wickets in the WC, and his ODI performances remained among the best in the world

[JhonnyBravo]

well i am really looking forward at Pakistans next eras bowling options i will certainally keep sami in that list shahid nazir is also a strong contender .. but for now arafat , gul and rao is the right choice ... i dont see any new bowlers making into pakistans team

[Raz]

To be honest it will do Sami more harm than good if he were to get recalled right now.

I can see what Imran is saying, but until Sami reverts back to his older, longer run up and starts bowling express, rather than barely touching 90mph and is used as an attacking bowler, rather than a line and length bowler he should not be in the team in my humble opinion.

Sami's forte is not trying to bowl line and length, he is best when the captain tells him to attack the stumps and try and get wickets, and not worry about economy. Naturally his accuracy will come then and when combined with the 95mph+ pace he is capable of bowling he will then be able to trouble any given batting lineup on any given day.

As for Kaneria we don't need two legspinners in the ODI team, especially one who is limited as a cricketer.

[garbage_can2003]

Are the 2 replacements now in India?

[cavin420]

Originally Posted by garbage_can2003 Are the 2 replacements now in India?

yep!

[garbage_can2003]

Originally Posted by cavin420 yep!

Hmm.... Lets see if Rana gets replaced now!

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by Raz To be honest it will do Sami more harm than good if he were to get recalled right now. I can see what Imran is saying, but until Sami reverts back to his older, longer run up and starts bowling express, rather than barely touching 90mph and is used as an attacking bowler, rather than a line and length bowler he should not be in the team in my humble opinion. Sami's forte is not trying to bowl line and length, he is best when the captain tells him to attack the stumps and try and get wickets, and not worry about economy. Naturally his accuracy will come then and when combined with the 95mph+ pace he is capable of bowling he will then be able to trouble any given batting lineup on any given day. As for Kaneria we don't need two legspinners in the ODI team, especially one who is limited as a cricketer.

completely agree with this and i have posted this repeatedly. THis is exactly how waqar ans wasim were used by imran. Sami needs to be told to bowl as fast as he can and not worry about runs. Plus, he needs to be told to attack the stumps. he is a different bowler to those who r good at bowling the off stump or outside line. he looks a different bowler when he is bowling fast and is bowling middle/middle and off with a strong leg side field. he just hasnt been used properly