Inzi / Gayle critical of Karachi Pitch [Merged]

[PlanetPakistan]

http://blogs.cricinfo.com/sg_tourdia...sing_mommy.php

Lalla Gayle calls the Karachi wicket the 'worst' pitch yet fails to mention about the pitches in Antigua? .....

[ahmii2002]

Gayle has so many firsts in Pakistan, first ride of motorbike, first worst pitch, first ever horselaugh on a cricket pitch.

[xbox]

atleaset he can't blame his dismissal because of pitch. these guys should just shuttup and play.

[MIG]

Also known as Foot in Mouth:



foot in one's mouth, put one's Say something foolish, embarrassing, or tactless.

[m_sohail]

Originally Posted by MIG Also known as Foot in Mouth: foot in one's mouth, put one's Say something foolish, embarrassing, or tactless.

Thanks for providing the caption, I thought I saw something which clearly didn't exist (thankfully!).

[Amjid Javed]

PAKISTAN captain Inzamam-ul-Haq has described the pitch for the third and final Test against West Indies as substandard.

Pakistan was 8-265 on the second day after struggling to 7-257 on day one despite a hundred from Mohammad Yousuf.

The batsmen faced severe problems with the low bounce and slow pace of the pitch.

"This is a very difficult wicket and it is going to get worse to bat on as the game progresses," Inzamam said.

"After seeing the behaviour of the pitch on the first day there is no way one can describe it as up to Test standards."

Inzamam, who struggled to 18 from 64 balls, said the pitch was not ideal for a Test match.

"By the third day the spinners are going to get lot of turn and the variable bounce is a major concern for everyone.

Getting a total of 300 is good on this track," he said.

The Pakistan Cricket Board curators at the National stadium blamed excessive rolling for the low bounce.

"We just follow orders that is all. We were told to cut off the grass and keep on rolling it to keep it dry and suitable for spinners and we did that," one said.

Pakistan leads the three-match series 1-0 after a nine-wicket win in the first Test in Lahore. The second ended in a high-scoring draw in Multan.

The preparation of pitches in Pakistan has long been the subject of intense debate with the board even hiring a foreign curator, Andy Atkinson, three years ago to help the locals prepare Test and one-day wickets.

West Indies have not won a series in Pakistan since 1981.

[Amjid Javed]

Well maybe the orders should have been keep grass on wicket and not roll it!

Then again pigs might be flying over karachi right now!

[Daoud]

Im not watching so I wouldnt know about the quality of cricket, but I suppose this would be better than a road which seems to have been the order

[Khalil]

The board even hiring a foreign curator, Andy Atkinson, three years ago to help the locals prepare Test and one-day wickets

Andy Atkinson, the former groundsman at The Wanderers in Johannesburg was fired for preparing poor pitches by the Gauteng Cricket Board. Why did Pakistan appoint this guy ?

[Blistering Barnacle]

I remember in the series against India at home that Pak lost, Inzi was bashing the curator (Andy). He's doing the same here. Both times though, they followed Inzi's instructions in terms of making sure it was flat as best as they could.

[batter]

Only after inzi's retirement we will see green tracks in pakistan.

Sigh

[Easa]

I said the same thing yesterday:

We have to wait until the Windies also bat on this pitch and currently they are struggling at 190/6.

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by Khalil Andy Atkinson, the former groundsman at The Wanderers in Johannesburg was fired for preparing poor pitches by the Gauteng Cricket Board. Why did Pakistan appoint this guy ?

Atkinson is the offical ICC pitch consultant and is pretty much used across the world when it comes to pitch prep.

[Daoud]

Atkinson did prepare pretty good pitches when South Africa were in Pakistan in 2003

[Hash]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed Well maybe the orders should have been keep grass on wicket and not roll it! Then again pigs might be flying over karachi right now!

Amjid bro you know that you cannot keep grass on a wicket in Pakistan. It gives far too much of an advantage to the side that wins the toss as the grass is more or less burnt to a frazzle by day 2. We saw that in Lahore and Pindi in the Jeet Lo Dil series and we saw it in Karachi against India in 2006 (ofcoarse India are too crap to make that advantage work).

Leaving grass on a wicket is not what we want. Ideally in Pakistan (where we should have conditions which favour us) we need pitches which are good for batting but which offer bounce to the fast bowlers and turn for the spinners as the game goes on. This is not easy in Pakistan given the nature of our soil.

It is very easy to just bash everything the PCB does but when you look at the bigger picture you will find that it is not as easy as simply Ashraf saying to the groundsman 'make a bouncy pitch' and there it is done. If only life was that simple.

[RazaSohail]

Originally Posted by Hash Amjid bro you know that you cannot keep grass on a wicket in Pakistan. It gives far too much of an advantage to the side that wins the toss as the grass is more or less burnt to a frazzle by day 2. We saw that in Lahore and Pindi in the Jeet Lo Dil series and we saw it in Karachi against India in 2006 (ofcoarse India are too crap to make that advantage work). Leaving grass on a wicket is not what we want. Ideally in Pakistan (where we should have conditions which favour us) we need pitches which are good for batting but which offer bounce to the fast bowlers and turn for the spinners as the game goes on. This is not easy in Pakistan given the nature of our soil. It is very easy to just bash everything the PCB does but when you look at the bigger picture you will find that it is not as easy as simply Ashraf saying to the groundsman 'make a bouncy pitch' and there it is done. If only life was that simple.

bang on. but good luck trying to reason it out with Amjid. grass or no grass, this is a substandard pitch. the top soil was giving way on day 1. this curator is simply trying to save his backside.

[fight_club]

It is very easy to just bash everything the PCB does but when you look at the bigger picture you will find that it is not as easy as simply Ashraf saying to the groundsman 'make a bouncy pitch' and there it is done. If only life was that simple.

yup its easy to make sub-standard pitches. now bro its not just me who is saying the pitch is shub-standard. even Inzy and gayle both better looking and more knowledgable then me are quated saying it.

i thought you were the same guy who was saying we should only concentrate on winning so i do not think you will have any problem with the pictch, west-indies does not have a decent spinner and Kaneria got into form of his life on this pitch. and in all probability we will win. i think we must hire the curtator who prepared that Quality pitch in mumbai where india defeated mighty austrailia.

Hash, dear where are you my questions are still awaiting your reply.

[xbox]

Inzing blaming curators is just a media plot. He exactly knew what he is going to get, chief curator Agha Zahid is an ex-test cricketer and knows exactly whats going on. Ya it is true that you can't get PERFECT taylor-made pitch. But PCB managment knew what they are going to get.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by fight_club yup its easy to make sub-standard pitches. now bro its not just me who is saying the pitch is shub-standard. even Inzy and gayle both better looking and more knowledgable then me are quated saying it. i thought you were the same guy who was saying we should only concentrate on winning so i do not think you will have any problem with the pictch, west-indies does not have a decent spinner and Kaneria got into form of his life on this pitch. and in all probability we will win. i think we must hire the curtator who prepared that Quality pitch in mumbai where india defeated mighty austrailia. Hash, dear where are you my questions are still awaiting your reply.

What questions? I'll check it out tonight when I get back from work.

I never said the pitch was not sub standard..........I said it wasn't a batting paradise and did offer help to the bowlers. Anyway.......I will answer whatever questions you so magnificently put to me with such fabulous intellect tonight. So be patient.

[Amjid Javed]

Hash,

The issue is simple inzi wanted a dead pitch with no grass, thats what has been made and now hes laying blame else where. typical inzamam.

[inzidabest]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed Hash, The issue is simple inzi wanted a dead pitch with no grass, thats what has been made and now hes laying blame else where. typical inzamam.

He made 16 runs of 57 balls. what will he say?
Good pitch. ha ha ha.
Tomorrow he will say, test cricket is crap. Cannot fit Razzaq however hard I try.

[infamous9383]

It looks like it will produce a result which will shut up many of the commentators that were saying pitch is too good for batting.

[fight_club]

the issue is not of a grassy pitch. but a pitch with some sort of life in it so batsman can be challenged and their is some sort of battle between bat and ball. let me assure you(with my limited knowledge) that such pitches can easily be prepared. its the amount of clay content which matters and then you can get the desired sort of soil(clay).

i pity the poor curator here who was simply overdid plucking life out of wicket under orders from his masters.

hash thanks for considerering my questions as magnificent and full of intellect even without reading them, actually they are their since yesterday night.

[Khalil]

Maybe we should do what the do on some South African grounds

Prepare the pitch in a greenhouse and then transport it to them stadium and place them in a carefully dugup trench

[RazaSohail]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed Hash, The issue is simple inzi wanted a dead pitch with no grass, thats what has been made and now hes laying blame else where. typical inzamam.

what? youre calling this a dead pitch? you are losing it!!!

[RazaSohail]

Originally Posted by fight_club the issue is not of a grassy pitch. but a pitch with some sort of life in it so batsman can be challenged and their is some sort of battle between bat and ball. let me assure you(with my limited knowledge) that such pitches can easily be prepared. its the amount of clay content which matters and then you can get the desired sort of soil(clay). i pity the poor curator here who was simply overdid plucking life out of wicket under orders from his masters.

you are wayyyy off base buddy. I've seen plenty of pitches with no grass on them but much harder and with much more bounce. are you caliming that you cant have bounce without grass?

all grass does is make the ball swing. everything else you can get without grass. bounce, seam, reverse swing are all possible on dry pitches. even swing can be achieved with the right overhead conditions.

as for the curator, he seems to be a dumb fool. scraping grass off a pitch should not make the top soil crumble on the first day. that is no excuse.

[MaVeRiCk]

The solution is simple, It is the PCBs fault because all the need to do i get one of those dop in pitches,that solves the problem. All this talk of top soil and this is true to some extent but the PCB should realsie that and use their own iniciative.

[Easa]

Originally Posted by Hash Amjid bro you know that you cannot keep grass on a wicket in Pakistan. It gives far too much of an advantage to the side that wins the toss as the grass is more or less burnt to a frazzle by day 2. We saw that in Lahore and Pindi in the Jeet Lo Dil series and we saw it in Karachi against India in 2006 (ofcoarse India are too crap to make that advantage work). Leaving grass on a wicket is not what we want. Ideally in Pakistan (where we should have conditions which favour us) we need pitches which are good for batting but which offer bounce to the fast bowlers and turn for the spinners as the game goes on. This is not easy in Pakistan given the nature of our soil. It is very easy to just bash everything the PCB does but when you look at the bigger picture you will find that it is not as easy as simply Ashraf saying to the groundsman 'make a bouncy pitch' and there it is done. If only life was that simple.

Exactly! Great post as per usual, Hash bhai.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by fight_club the issue is not of a grassy pitch. but a pitch with some sort of life in it so batsman can be challenged and their is some sort of battle between bat and ball. let me assure you(with my limited knowledge) that such pitches can easily be prepared. its the amount of clay content which matters and then you can get the desired sort of soil(clay). i pity the poor curator here who was simply overdid plucking life out of wicket under orders from his masters. hash thanks for considerering my questions as magnificent and full of intellect even without reading them, actually they are their since yesterday night.

Well quite clearly a batsman is challenged on this pitch so I don't know what you are going on about. Take a look at the scorecard.......Pakistan first innings 301 and West Indies 190 odd for 6........not the scores of a pitch which does not challenge the batsman. It may be substandard but quite clearly it is not easy to bat on.

As for pitches being easily prepared....you answered the question yourself in the brackets. Go back and read (can't be bothered to go and dig them up myself).......there were several articles around the India series with quotes from various people like Woolmer, groundsman etc that it is difficult to create hard and bouncy wickets in the sub continent and you need conditions to be perfect in order to do so.

It is always a pleasure to compliment someone on their magnificent intellect. I didn't even have to read the questions.....I can tell by your posts that you are a fine young man with tremendous potential. We could even have a future Nobel Prize winning PakPassioner in you so keep it up and make everyone proud of you.

Anyway....the questions. Now where are they? I'll find them and give you your answers.

[Geordie Ahmed]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed Hash, The issue is simple inzi wanted a dead pitch with no grass, thats what has been made and now hes laying blame else where. typical inzamam.

That is an interesting comment to make - can you prove Inzi wanted a dead pitch? or as usual are you making things up to suit yourself?

[the true passionist]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed Hash, The issue is simple inzi wanted a dead pitch with no grass, thats what has been made and now hes laying blame else where. typical inzamam.

true.

[fight_club]

Originally Posted by fight_club the issue is not of a grassy pitch. but a pitch with some sort of life in it so batsman can be [U]challenged and their is some sort of battle between bat and ball. let me assure you(with my limited knowledge) that such pitches can easily be prepared. its the amount of clay content which matters and then you can get the desired sort of soil(clay). i pity the poor curator here who was simply overdid plucking life out of wicket under orders from his masters. you are wayyyy off base buddy. I've seen plenty of pitches with no grass on them but much harder and with much more bounce. are you caliming that you cant have bounce without grass? all grass does is make the ball swing. everything else you can get without grass. bounce, seam, reverse swing are all possible on dry pitches. even swing can be achieved with the right overhead conditions. as for the curator, he seems to be a dumb fool. scraping grass off a pitch should not make the top soil crumble on the first day. that is no excuse.

dude, you clearly missed the point so no comments.

[QUOTE]It is always a pleasure to compliment someone on their magnificent intellect. I didn't even have to read the questions.....I can tell by your posts that you are a fine young man with tremendous potential. We could even have a future Nobel Prize winning PakPassioner in you so keep it up and make everyone proud of you.[QUOTE]

man you are really tempting me to belive this, how Osama samiuddin will ever forgive you. i think i am an obove avearge passionist, with sacred disregard to perfectionists.

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by Geordie Ahmed That is an interesting comment to make - can you prove Inzi wanted a dead pitch? or as usual are you making things up to suit yourself?

Intresting how the groundsmen said he was ordered to make such a pitch.

i wonder by who?

[sehsan]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed Intresting how the groundsmen said he was ordered to make such a pitch. i wonder by who?

on what basis you are believing groundsman?

[Amjid Javed]

sehsan,

On what basis are you believing inzamam?

I guess inzamam wanted a green seaming wicket didnt he?

[Geordie Ahmed]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed Intresting how the groundsmen said he was ordered to make such a pitch. i wonder by who?

you can wonder and you can guess BUT to say it was Inzi for definate is wrong

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by Geordie Ahmed you can wonder and you can guess BUT to say it was Inzi for definate is wrong

I didnt mention inzis name in last post!

[GQ]

I'm not an expert on pitches but I would like to comment on them based on some common sense.

We hear about "sub-standard, dead, batting friendly pitches", specially in the sub-continent, all the time. What I fail to understand is what are these critics trying to accomplish? Standard pitches all over the world regardless of different climatic conditions, soil conditions, "home advantage" option?

How come no one criticizes Australian, South African, or English pitches that assist fast bowlers? They create those pitches to support their fast bowlers. Shane Warne being an exception, you would rarely find quality spinners from these coutries.

Similarly, the sub-continent has always produced quality spinners and classic batsmen due to the playing conditions in this part of the world. Also, every team has the right to a "home advantage" where they should be able to prepare whatever type of pitches they like.

I agree, this limits the players' capabilities to play in different conditions but good players adapt. Not all English and Australian players are successful in the sub-continent and not all sub-continent players do well abroad. But, those who play well everywhere have adapted their game to the conditions.

Another point to note is the fact that the test series in the sub-continent also produce results and do not end in draws, like before. The result is, most of the time, in favor of the home side and that is quite understandable given the circumstances. Such is also the case in Australia and England.

So what's all the fuss about sub-standard pitches?

[sehsan]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed sehsan, On what basis are you believing inzamam? I guess inzamam wanted a green seaming wicket didnt he?

because he wasn't happy at multan wicket as well and kept saying again and again on CAPTAINS CORNER in geo that he want a supporting track

[RazaSohail]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed Intresting how the groundsmen said he was ordered to make such a pitch. i wonder by who?

yaar i actually began to think at one point that you were interested in straight up discussion. but how wrong was I. you are just a liar. no two ways about it. you will lie your backside off until you cant type anymore, then you'll get someone else to lie for you.

tell me which groundsman and where said he was ordered to make a dustbowl that would start crumbling after lunch on day 1 of a test match?

now you will come out and say boohoo, you are getting personal. but im not. what youve stated above is a simple, bold faced lie. no two ways about it. the groundsman said he was instructed to take grass off the pitch. fair enough. but who ordered a crumbling top soil with shifting cracks? can you show me any such statement? i think not! what a shame.

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by sehsan because he wasn't happy at multan wicket as well and kept saying again and again on CAPTAINS CORNER in geo that he want a supporting track

well there was grass on multan wicket a day before it started.

I suggest inzamam finds out who asked for it to be shaved off and sort them out then!

[Amjid Javed]

A crumbling dust bowl?

I suggest you go look at the mumbai wicket produced for 4th test v Australia the last time india/Aus clashed that was a dustbowl from Day 1.

The wicket hasnt broken up much, i dont see puffs of dust flying everytime the ball hits surface. I dont see huge cracks on wicket.

please dont exagerate. Finally traditionally teams have scored lower totals in 1st inns of test matches in Karachi in recent games, then as game has gone on 3rd inns teams tend to fair better.

[sehsan]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed well there was grass on multan wicket a day before it started. I suggest inzamam finds out who asked for it to be shaved off and sort them out then!

did you see the grass?

[Gunner786]

inzi and gayle have to blame pitch cos they failed on it

ask mohd yousof or ganga what the pitch is liek and they will tell you the truth

[Geordie Ahmed]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed I didnt mention inzis name in last post!

you didnt have to cause in post 9 you claim Inzi wanted a dead with no grass then when i asked for proof you said in post 33 that the groundsman was ordered to make such a pitch and you wondered by who - i said you can guess and wonder all you like BUT to say it was Inzi (which you did in post 9) is - and now instead of backing up your claim with proof you are trying to worm your way out of it

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by sehsan did you see the grass?

from dawn news 25th nov

KARACHI, Nov 25: Barely hours after Bennett King, the West Indies coach, appreciated the ‘grassy’ outlook of the National Stadium pitch where the third and final Test starts on Monday, the 22-year-old strip was completely shorn of grass on Saturday evening.

The instructions from the home camp were loud and clear; ‘play for a draw to keep the 1-0 advantage intact.’ This defensive approach, however, could easily backfire as it nearly did in the second Test at Multan where Pakistan survived some anxious moments on the final day before Mohammad Yousuf steered them to safety with a marathon 191.

Keeping in view the Karachi climate which helps faster bowlers to swing the ball appreciably, the selectors opted for Mohammad Sami instead of left-arm spinner Abdur Rehman when they announced the 15-man Pakistan squad soon after the Multan Test concluded.

But it remains to be seen what sort of combination the Pakistan team management opts for in the third Test. One thing that is certain now is that Inzamam-ul-Haq wants to play safe here for specific reasons. Firstly, he is keen on winning this series to put behind the England tour nightmares and secondly, he is anxious to end a lean period with the bat at a time when his future as captain is being repeatedly questioned.

This negative mindset on the skipper’s part was also evident in Multan. On the eve of the second Test the pitch wore a grassy look and was seen as a sporting track by the critics. On the day of the match, however, the grass was completely gone and it looked as placid as ever.

Pakistan may have its reasons for not favouring a lively track at the National Stadium. The bans on strike bowlers Shoaib Akhtar and Mohammad Asif have definitely altered the hosts’ game-plan despite heartening performance from Umar Gul and Shahid Nazir who have so far shared the new ball in this series.

Brian Lara’s outstanding form (scores of 61, 122 and 216) and his domination of Danish Kaneria in Multan is another reason for the home side to play totally safe.

But this policy clearly suggests Pakistan’s lack of planning. With the demanding tour of South Africa just round the corner, the batsmen need to play on sporting pitches at home and not featherbeds which will harm their chances of succeeding against Graeme Smith’s men.

[Geordie Ahmed]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed A crumbling dust bowl? I suggest you go look at the mumbai wicket produced for 4th test v Australia the last time india/Aus clashed that was a dustbowl from Day 1. The wicket hasnt broken up much, i dont see puffs of dust flying everytime the ball hits surface. I dont see huge cracks on wicket. please dont exagerate. Finally traditionally teams have scored lower totals in 1st inns of test matches in Karachi in recent games, then as game has gone on 3rd inns teams tend to fair better.

if it is a tradition for the karachi pitch to produce low 1st inns totals then why on earth are you blaming Inzamam for this or even the PCB? you yourself have just admitted its traditionally a low scoring pitch BUT you still felt it was necessary to kick up a fuss about the pitch

why on earth have you been crying like a baby about a pitch which you claim has been a low scorer in the recent past?

[Geordie Ahmed]

Originally Posted by gambino inzi and gayle have to blame pitch cos they failed on it ask mohd yousof or ganga what the pitch is liek and they will tell you the truth

well my friend i suggest you read what both of those batsmen had to say about the pitch

[sehsan]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed from dawn news 25th nov KARACHI, Nov 25: Barely hours after Bennett King, the West Indies coach, appreciated the ‘grassy’ outlook of the National Stadium pitch where the third and final Test starts on Monday, the 22-year-old strip was completely shorn of grass on Saturday evening. The instructions from the home camp were loud and clear; ‘play for a draw to keep the 1-0 advantage intact.’ This defensive approach, however, could easily backfire as it nearly did in the second Test at Multan where Pakistan survived some anxious moments on the final day before Mohammad Yousuf steered them to safety with a marathon 191. Keeping in view the Karachi climate which helps faster bowlers to swing the ball appreciably, the selectors opted for Mohammad Sami instead of left-arm spinner Abdur Rehman when they announced the 15-man Pakistan squad soon after the Multan Test concluded. But it remains to be seen what sort of combination the Pakistan team management opts for in the third Test. One thing that is certain now is that Inzamam-ul-Haq wants to play safe here for specific reasons. Firstly, he is keen on winning this series to put behind the England tour nightmares and secondly, he is anxious to end a lean period with the bat at a time when his future as captain is being repeatedly questioned. This negative mindset on the skipper’s part was also evident in Multan. On the eve of the second Test the pitch wore a grassy look and was seen as a sporting track by the critics. On the day of the match, however, the grass was completely gone and it looked as placid as ever. Pakistan may have its reasons for not favouring a lively track at the National Stadium. The bans on strike bowlers Shoaib Akhtar and Mohammad Asif have definitely altered the hosts’ game-plan despite heartening performance from Umar Gul and Shahid Nazir who have so far shared the new ball in this series. Brian Lara’s outstanding form (scores of 61, 122 and 216) and his domination of Danish Kaneria in Multan is another reason for the home side to play totally safe. But this policy clearly suggests Pakistan’s lack of planning. With the demanding tour of South Africa just round the corner, the batsmen need to play on sporting pitches at home and not featherbeds which will harm their chances of succeeding against Graeme Smith’s men.

Amjid bahi: According to newspaper karachi wicket had a grass too so did inzi them to take that as well?

[RazaSohail]

Originally Posted by Geordie Ahmed you didnt have to cause in post 9 you claim Inzi wanted a dead with no grass then when i asked for proof you said in post 33 that the groundsman was ordered to make such a pitch and you wondered by who - i said you can guess and wonder all you like BUT to say it was Inzi (which you did in post 9) is - and now instead of backing up your claim with proof you are trying to worm your way out of it

good luck getting this guy to admit a contradiction. he is one hell of an escape artist.

[RazaSohail]

Originally Posted by Geordie Ahmed if it is a tradition for the karachi pitch to produce low 1st inns totals then why on earth are you blaming Inzamam for this or even the PCB? you yourself have just admitted its traditionally a low scoring pitch BUT you still felt it was necessary to kick up a fuss about the pitch why on earth have you been crying like a baby about a pitch which you claim has been a low scorer in the recent past?

[Geordie Ahmed]

Originally Posted by RazaSohail good luck getting this guy to admit a contradiction. he is one hell of an escape artist.

i know that - i have witnessed it on this forum for the past couple of years - ever since that infamous one liner from BW

[Saj]

270 is the average first innings score at Karachi in test cricket. We beat that by 35 runs didnt we ?

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by sehsan Amjid bahi: According to newspaper karachi wicket had a grass too so did inzi them to take that as well?

well someone in team management/team has ordered it to be done!

[RazaSohail]

Originally Posted by Geordie Ahmed i know that - i have witnessed it on this forum for the past couple of years - ever since that infamous one liner from BW

what one liner??

[Amjid Javed]

GA,

The issue was with grass been taken off which basically killed of any assistance been given to the bowlers. Taking grass off and asking it to be rolled numerously has kiled the bounce and means no latteral movement.

[Geordie Ahmed]

Originally Posted by RazaSohail what one liner??

right, where do i start? il keep it brief and to the point

1) Pakistan appoint BW
2) majority of PakPassion happy including AJ
3) BW has a Q and A section on his website
4) AJ sends him a massive post with various suggestions
5) BW responds with the infamous one liner amongst the lines of "thanks for your time"
6) that obviously riled AJ since he felt he was deserving of much more
7) from that day onwards he has waged a war on BW and pakistan cricket in general
8) the impact of that one liner is still being felt to this very day, all the posts which infuriate yourself and many other members are a direct result of that one liner

[Saj]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed GA, The issue was with grass been taken off which basically killed of any assistance been given to the bowlers. Taking grass off and asking it to be rolled numerously has kiled the bounce and means no latteral movement.

There is some lateral movement and plenty of indifferent bounce and assistance to the bowlers.

Make no mistake this is a tricky wicket to bat on. I'd rather be a bowler than a batsman on this track. Reverse swing, the pitch is roughing up too for the spinners.

Pak should thank their lucky stars that they arent going to be batting last on this pitch.

[Geordie Ahmed]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed GA, The issue was with grass been taken off which basically killed of any assistance been given to the bowlers. Taking grass off and asking it to be rolled numerously has kiled the bounce and means no latteral movement.

grass or no grass - it has shown to be a competitive wicket and surely that is what matters at the end of the day, no?

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by Saj There is some lateral movement and plenty of indifferent bounce and assistance to the bowlers. Make no mistake this is a tricky wicket to bat on. I'd rather be a bowler than a batsman on this track. Reverse swing, the pitch is roughing up too for the spinners. Pak should thank their lucky stars that they arent going to be batting last on this pitch.

Yes there has been reverse swing, but not much sharp turn. Interms of latteral movement its been minimal its only when seamers have tried offf-cutters (colloymore has bowled a few) or leg cutters (as some call it) has ball deviated.

In tests v sri laka/india we saw almost banana like swing due to greenish grassy surface. Batting is hard but its a pitch you can bat on aslong as ur prepared to play straight on.

[Saj]

Make no mistake this wicket is going to be tough to bat on the last 2 days especially, largely due to the uneven bounce.

I've got a feeling that the Windies will collpase in the second innings and hand victory to Pakistan.

[Hash]

As Ganga and Yousuf (the only two people who have spent any real time at the crease) have both said, the pitch is difficult to bat on. It will get harder as the game goes on......I think the Windies will struggle to chase down 250 here.

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by Hash As Ganga and Yousuf (the only two people who have spent any real time at the crease) have both said, the pitch is difficult to bat on. It will get harder as the game goes on......I think the Windies will struggle to chase down 250 here.

Well lets hope we get a 250+ lead. I think even chasing 200+ in Asia is traditional hard regardless of the venue.

[RazaSohail]

Originally Posted by Geordie Ahmed right, where do i start? il keep it brief and to the point 1) Pakistan appoint BW 2) majority of PakPassion happy including AJ 3) BW has a Q and A section on his website 4) AJ sends him a massive post with various suggestions 5) BW responds with the infamous one liner amongst the lines of "thanks for your time" 6) that obviously riled AJ since he felt he was deserving of much more 7) from that day onwards he has waged a war on BW and pakistan cricket in general 8) the impact of that one liner is still being felt to this very day, all the posts which infuriate yourself and many other members are a direct result of that one liner

yaar pehlay batana tha, would have saved me some time.

[RazaSohail]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed Well lets hope we get a 250+ lead. I think even chasing 200+ in Asia is traditional hard regardless of the venue.

chasing 200 is difficult on flat batting tracks in Pakistan?? (and this is a flat batting tracks by any half decent analysis of your posts.) you must be joking!!!

just so i know, how many Amjid Javed's are there on this board? they all seem to have different opinions of this pitch!

[Hash]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed Well lets hope we get a 250+ lead. I think even chasing 200+ in Asia is traditional hard regardless of the venue.

yes. Plus the ability of the Windies to completely and utterly capitulate.

The key will be the psychological advantage of getting a 1st innings lead. If we can clean them up in the next 50 runs it is game, set and match.

[Officer Barbrady]

Pakistan want wickets that don't have bounce because they are troubled by the bounce.

At the same time they want pitches that spin because they have a spinner and are decent playing spin.

When you combine the two this is what you get. I don't blame the curator.

[Sultan Yusuf]

When will inzi stop his petulance?

He is the one who ordered the grass to be shaved of in Multan Vs India 2004. He is the one who asked the grass to be shaved off here. He also wanted the grass to be shaved off in Karachi last year Vs India. He went on record to say that it will be too much of an advantage to the team bowling first. The groundsman, under enormous pressure from the media and TV companies decided to tell inzi where to stick it. Result: Inzi didn't play citiing a chronic back injury - only for a miraculous recovery 4 days later when Pakistan won the match. Anyone remember the famous one-liner immediately after the Karachi test:

"Jes Ve are fit now" ??!

Now that the groundsman followed his orders to shave off the grass - the pitch has turned out to be the slowest and lowest thing since George Bush, Inzi is complaining again! This man truly is a joke.

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by RazaSohail chasing 200 is difficult on flat batting tracks in Pakistan?? (and this is a flat batting tracks by any half decent analysis of your posts.) you must be joking!!! just so i know, how many Amjid Javed's are there on this board? they all seem to have different opinions of this pitch!

heres some basics for you:-

when playing on flat wickets they tend to become worn down over 4/5 days and sometimes crack, get slower and lower and thus batting becomes difficult.

i suggest you not try to try and mix humour and what ever logic ur trying to conjure up because its not making sense. It really does show how much cricket youve watched or how much concept your not grasping!

[AWAN IN A MILLION]

My contribution to this thread is summed up by Ganga boy.....

He admitted later, while speaking to reporters, that sometimes it wasn't so bad to play on such pitches. [I]"This is a true test of character, a real test of skill as a batsman. I am enjoying the challenge though and as all great batsmen have done in the past, you have to prove yourself on all types of pitches."[/I]

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/pakvw...ry/270222.html

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by Naved Now that the groundsman followed his orders to shave off the grass - the pitch has turned out to be the slowest and lowest thing since George Bush, Inzi is complaining again! This man truly is a joke.

classic!

[AWAN IN A MILLION]

Originally Posted by RazaSohail just so i know, how many Amjid Javed's are there on this board? they all seem to have different opinions of this pitch!

[cricketcrazy]

Inzi / Gayle please stop, if GUL can score 26 on this pitch you should be able to make atleast 50. All you needed more concentration. The shot Gayle played to get out was 200% his fault it wasnt a good ball or anything...so please stop it and play some cricket

[Geordie Ahmed]

Originally Posted by RazaSohail chasing 200 is difficult on flat batting tracks in Pakistan?? (and this is a flat batting tracks by any half decent analysis of your posts.) you must be joking!!! just so i know, how many Amjid Javed's are there on this board? they all seem to have different opinions of this pitch!

[RazaSohail]

So Amjid, let me sum up your entire point. and as you suggested, I will make my best effort to use "logic".

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed traditionally teams have scored lower totals in 1st inns of test matches in Karachi in recent games, then as game has gone on 3rd inns teams tend to fair better.

You said this when I claimed that the pitch is crumbling and is difficult to score runs on.

So, even though the pitch is flat and good for batting, since it is a 'Karachi pitch', both teams failed to score runs in their first innings'. fair point.

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed when playing on flat wickets they tend to become worn down over 4/5 days and sometimes crack, get slower and lower and thus batting becomes difficult.

So, even though the pitch is flat and good for batting, since it is a 'flat wicket', it will be difficult for either team to score runs in their second innings. again, fair point.

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed The issue is simple inzi wanted a dead pitch with no grass, thats what has been made and now hes laying blame else where. typical inzamam.

So, even though the pitch is flat and good for batting, just the way Inzi wanted it, it will be difficult to score runs off it for either team in either innings.

Now why didnt this get through my head earlier? See, thats how little I know about cricket. Thanks Amjid Bhai!

Now, everyone repeat after me...

Pitch is flat, but nobody will score runs. One more time...

Pitch is flat, but nobody will score runs.

and the world makes sense again!

[Blistering Barnacle]

Originally Posted by Geordie Ahmed grass or no grass - it has shown to be a competitive wicket and surely that is what matters at the end of the day, no?

Yes, it has been shown to be difficult to bat on.

Hence, Inzi is unhappy with the pitch. He was expecting a flat pancake.

You're fooling yourself if you don't believe that Inzi likes flat pitches to be made for our home series.

Why do you think he always goes on about Kaneria being our strike bowler? Because he instructs the groundsmen to be sure to remove any assistance for fast bowlers.

[Officer Barbrady]

Originally Posted by Blistering Barnacle Yes, it has been shown to be difficult to bat on. Hence, Inzi is unhappy with the pitch. He was expecting a flat pancake. You're fooling yourself if you don't believe that Inzi likes flat pitches to be made for our home series. Why do you think he always goes on about Kaneria being our strike bowler? Because he instructs the groundsmen to be sure to remove any assistance for fast bowlers.

That is sadly very true.

[PlanetPakistan]

then why wasn't he ****** off at the Lahore pitch?