the charge of cheating

[RazaSohail]

I've seen this being alleged against "Pakistanis" on this board and also on numerous others. Are there any here who believe that we are cheats because akhtar and asif werent banned according to WADA rules? If so, can you please explain to me the logic behind this? I simply fail to understand it.

There are plenty of countries that do not follow WADA rules. The US being the prime example. And I dont think there is any country that can definitively say that none of its athletes have been caught using steroids. So what am I missing? Where did we go wrong? Please dont make me bring up the color of our skin. coz I will!!

[akram_rejuvinated]

the united states has a rather diluted, almost non existant anti-doping law. which is why most of the sports they play are either intramural, i.e. played with divisions within the country. they are not immune to the rules, i.e. when they compete at the international level such as the olympics or the soccer world cup etc, they like others must comply to the international rules. now if a particular sport decides to not determine its own laws and chooses to be independent of the WADA council, it may choose to do so, such as tennis where the ATP is not a WADA signatory.

the matter of much contention is not if asif and shoaib were juicing or what should be their punishment. the reason why pakistan is being labeled as a cheat and a scoundrel is because in the appeal, something to which both players are entitled to, determined that neither player was accountable for their actions. i.e. there was absolutely no burden of responsibility on the player.

now unfortunately a number of people who do not have an understanding of how law works fail to see that the process of appeals is very different from the orignial trial, or in this case the tribunal held by the PCB. in the appeal process, no new evidence may be presented without special permission from the presiding judge/judges, nor are there any deliberations on the admissibility of past evidence, its validity etc. an appeal is a rather difficult case to win and since both players won their case, i think they deserve to walk free with absolute impunity. the rest of the world alas, differs.

[RazaSohail]

Originally Posted by dhoni_ka_pankha the united states has a rather diluted, almost non existant anti-doping law. which is why most of the sports they play are either intramural, i.e. played with divisions within the country. they are not immune to the rules, i.e. when they compete at the international level such as the olympics or the soccer world cup etc, they like others must comply to the international rules. now if a particular sport decides to not determine its own laws and chooses to be independent of the WADA council, it may choose to do so, such as tennis where the ATP is not a WADA signatory. the matter of much contention is not if asif and shoaib were juicing or what should be their punishment. the reason why pakistan is being labeled as a cheat and a scoundrel is because in the appeal, something to which both players are entitled to, determined that neither player was accountable for their actions. i.e. there was absolutely no burden of responsibility on the player. now unfortunately a number of people who do not have an understanding of how law works fail to see that the process of appeals is very different from the orignial trial, or in this case the tribunal held by the PCB. in the appeal process, no new evidence may be presented without special permission from the presiding judge/judges, nor are there any deliberations on the admissibility of past evidence, its validity etc. an appeal is a rather difficult case to win and since both players won their case, i think they deserve to walk free with absolute impunity. the rest of the world alas, differs.

im still confused. so neither new nor old evidenca may be considered?

so you agree with me that the charge of cheats is bogus? you can argue law all you want. but to call this cheating is simply ridiculous imo.

[RazaSohail]

nobody here to make the "cheaters" charge huh? well thank God for that. go Asif...

and shoaib too i guess.

[isr]

The term "cheaters" is a moral, not legal one. You can accidentally break the rules (and perhaps, can be punished for that). But, in my book, you can't accidentally be a "cheater".

If Asif & Shoaib truly did not deliberately use banned substances, then they're not cheats - even if they broke the rules.

Unfortunately, no-one really knows whether the did so deliberately or not. All we have is a huge doubts over intent, a shambolic drugs awareness program, and no real resolution over what really happened.

The only thing we can say is, learn from this, and move on. Case closed.

[Genghis]

Originally Posted by isr The term "cheaters" is a moral, not legal one. You can accidentally break the rules (and perhaps, can be punished for that). But, in my book, you can't accidentally be a "cheater". If Asif & Shoaib truly did not deliberately use banned substances, then they're not cheats - even if they broke the rules. Unfortunately, no-one really knows whether the did so deliberately or not. All we have is a huge doubts over intent, a shambolic drugs awareness program, and no real resolution over what really happened. The only thing we can say is, learn from this, and move on. Case closed.

Well said. None of us really know what was Shoaib and Asif's intention so it is silly to say otherwise.