Imran backs Akhtar despite injury

[Legendary_Sage]

KARACHI (AFP) - Former Pakistan bowling great Imran Khan on Wednesday backed fast bowler Shoaib Akhtar, saying he should have been kept with the team despite his injury problems.
"You keep your match winners with the team and Akhtar's only two bursts put Pakistan in the match winning position in the Port Elizabeth Test," Khan told reporters, referring to the series in South Africa.
Akhtar capped his return to Test cricket with a magnificent 4-36 in the second Test against South Africa last week before tearing his hamstring muscle.
The 31-year-old maverick fast bowler did not bowl in the second innings of the Test, which Pakistan won by five wickets on Monday. He was due to miss the third Test starting at Cape Town from Friday and was returning home on Thursday.
Khan said injury is been part and parcel of a fast bowler's career. "Every fast bowler gets unfit and because of his action and speed Akhtar has more fitness problems but that doesn't mean you don't play him at all.
He won Pakistan the most important series against England in 2005," said Khan.
Khan was referring to Akhtar's 17 wickets which guided Pakistan to a 2-0 Test series win over England, who had come to Pakistan on the back of regaining the Ashes from Australia after 18 years.
Akhtar, however, had to undergo twin knee operations in February last year and missed Pakistan's tours of Sri Lanka and England.
His career was also hit by a failed doping test in October last year.
Akhtar was banned for two years in November before an appellate committee lifted the ban on the grounds that he took the banned substances unknowingly.
To add further woes to his recent injury, Akhtar's verbal spat with coach Bob Woolmer also hit the headlines and the team management fined him an undisclosed sum after a disciplinary hearing.
Khan said not selecting Akhtar in the original 17-man squad was a great injustice.
"I would blame the selectors for not selecting Akhtar in the original squad."
"When I was the captain I selected unfit leg-spinner Abdul Qadir for the tour of England in 1987 and paceman Wasim Akram for the West Indies tour a year later, simply because they remained with the team and got fit."
Khan, who played 82 Tests for Pakistan before switching to politics, said Akhtar's verbal spat with Woolmer was his reaction for not being selected.
"He (Akhtar) would have been angry on not being selected in the first place, so he would have lost his temper."
Pakistan Cricket Board announced Akhtar and another paceman Umar Gul, who on Wednesday returned home from South Africa after injuring his ankle, would start rehabilitation before the World Cup in the West Indies starting from March 13.

http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/jan-2007/25/sports1.php

Imran is a blind supporter of Akhtar

[Raza Sohail]

Imran is just a loud mouthed political nobody. trying to get cheap votes by stirring public sentiment. quite pathetic really!

[hasbeen]

imran is right.

if pakistan want to win world cup they need the big experienced stars including the likes of afridi, akhtar:
1 akmal/malik
2 hafeez
3 yk
4 moyo
5 inzi
6 malik/akmal
7 afridi
8 razzaq
9 shoaib
10 rana/gul
11 asif

thats the team thats going to win the world cup. rehman may also play a crucial part if afridi in poor form.

[Hash]

Imran is wrong.


You should never select an unfit player in the playing squad. That is wholly unfair on other cricketers who have been working hard on their fitness, it is a waste of a spot in the squad and it isn't right that someone should just come with the squad, stay in the 5 star hotel (though that is a negative thing according to Fletcher), chill by the pool and enjoy a holiday while everyone else is playing hard and determined cricket.

The best way to get fit is to play matches..........Akhtar should have been back in Pakistan playing domestic cricket to begin with.

[Legendary_Sage]

yes v should look forward to give chance to the youngesters like niazi,anwar ali,fawad alam,adnan raza,arafat
rather then sticking with the unfit players like shoaib,abdul razzaq
cuz this will give youngesters a chance to prove themselves n improve.
it will also create a backup for the players.cuz when a vitol player is unfit or out of form u can go for the replacement

[Legendary_Sage]

i compeletly agree with hash
u can even see aussies this is how they come up with world class players.
recent example is mitchell johnson

[SUPERSAMI]

With a torn hamstring, injured knee and his weight issues I don't see the point of keeping Akhtar with the team, he needs to rehab, loose weight and come back looking like a fast bowler not some drunk at a bar. Imran is wrong on this one.

[Hash]

I am actually very dissapointed in Shoaib.

He had not been injured....he had been banned. So there was nothing stopping him from training and keeping fit during his time off. He should have been in the gym, in the nets, jogging around Model Town Park or anywhere he could find and doing everything he could. By the looks of things he just sat around waiting.

[Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar]

Imran's gotta be smoking some strong stuff. picking unfit players so they can recover while on tour? unfit players throwing tantrums for not being picked DESPITE being unfit?

surely you can do better than that Imran?

[Nauman]

Originally Posted by Hash I am actually very dissapointed in Shoaib. He had not been injured....he had been banned. So there was nothing stopping him from training and keeping fit during his time off. He should have been in the gym, in the nets, jogging around Model Town Park or anywhere he could find and doing everything he could. By the looks of things he just sat around waiting.

Exactly banned doesnt mean you are confined to your kitchen, he could have gone out jogging, in gym and bowled in the nets.

[shan]

Imran is 100% right here. Fact is we never won a test against SA without Akhtar special contributions, so it will be miracle if we go onto win next test there without our ace pacer.

[Hash]

Imran's cricket punditry has been very dissapointing lately. I remember he was particularly poor after we lost the ODI series against India in 2006.

He acted as if the team had committed the crime of the millenium and he completely forgot about us nearly brownwashing England in the tests, beating them in the ODIs and beating India in the tests as well! The way he was going on you would have thought we lost all 4 series that summer, not won 3 and lost 1!

[Amoeba]

Waiting wouldn't have been too bad but as Cullinan said to Warne when he told him that he had just been waiting to bowl at him again - "it's seems that you just spent the whole time eating!"

[Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar]

the only reason why Imran's views are tolerated as commentator/pundit is because he is Imran. if anybody else came up with this stuff he would have been ripped apart.

I especially hate it when he justifies something by saying that "when I was captain, I did it..." so what does that mean? just because he did it at some point doesn't mean it will be so till the end of time.

[Monsee]

Originally Posted by Hash I am actually very dissapointed in Shoaib. He had not been injured....he had been banned. So there was nothing stopping him from training and keeping fit during his time off. He should have been in the gym, in the nets, jogging around Model Town Park or anywhere he could find and doing everything he could. By the looks of things he just sat around waiting.

Exactly...especially when the tournament of tournaments i.e. WC was just around the corner!

I mean is there a bigger motivation for a cricketer than being fit, being in the WC team, and winning the WC for his team

Shoaib got found out in that department...no matter how important his contribution in our victory was!

And on top of that, he almost took Asif for the ride (Unfitness One)...by putting so much pressure on him; but I am not surprised, as he has taken Asif for the ride before too in another famous saga (I am quite sure of that too)

[Hash]

Originally Posted by Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar the only reason why Imran's views are tolerated as commentator/pundit is because he is Imran. if anybody else came up with this stuff he would have been ripped apart. I especially hate it when he justifies something by saying that "when I was captain, I did it..." so what does that mean? just because he did it at some point doesn't mean it will be so till the end of time.

Exactly. Cricket has evolved a lot over the years. Times have changed. It is not the 1980s anymore.

[SUPERSAMI]

I can't believe Imran with his history of amazing fitness would tolerate someone like Shoaib, it's clear Shoaib's carrying at least 30lbs of extra blubber and that should be looked as the reason for his injuries before you can use his action or speed as an excuse.

[Monsee]

Hash and others...just check the 'Bob Woolmer: Turning the Corner' thread for another surprise

[161]

shoaib is 32 years old and has a disablitay of lose injury prone joints ... yet still bowls at 150 kph and wins matches for us ... shoaib haters need to shut up...

[shan]

Originally Posted by kashif77 shoaib is 32 years old and has a disablitay of lose injury prone joints ... yet still bowls at 150 kph and wins matches for us ... shoaib haters need to shut up...

by 32 years most bowlers retire let alone bowl at 150. Akhtar have special talent

[SUPERSAMI]

Originally Posted by kashif77 shoaib is 32 years old and has a disablitay of lose injury prone joints ... yet still bowls at 150 kph and wins matches for us ... shoaib haters need to shut up...

Actually he's 31.

[Nauman]

Imran should look at his own work ethic and then compare that with Shoaib's he will see a remarkable difference after that he wouldnt make any comments like these.

[Monsee]

Originally Posted by shan by 32 years most bowlers retire let alone bowl at 150. Akhtar have special talent

Imran was bowling at that pace when he was 35-36 (against WI in WI)...what is your point!

Imran took pain injections in 1992 WC when he was 39 years old...and you were saying

[161]

Originally Posted by usman917 Actually he's 31.

w/e... shoiab haters are getting quite pathetic ... why don't they also complain about gul's fitness who is 7 years younger then shoaib .. only bowls at 130 kph and has much more injury problems then akhter ?

[Monsee]

Originally Posted by kashif77 shoaib is 32 years old and has a disablitay of lose injury prone joints ... yet still bowls at 150 kph and wins matches for us ... shoaib haters need to shut up...

And that excuses him for putting tons of weight on...every time he is injured?

I have rarely seen a bowler going from 'Alan to Nanhaa' (Or from being like this 1 to this 0) in just a few months...so many times!

How many times he has to do this before he learns his lesson i.e. when I am unfit, I need to watch my diet and continue working out

[shan]

Originally Posted by Monsee Imran was bowling at that pace when he was 35-36 (against WI in WI)...what is your point! Imran took pain injections in 1992 WC when he was 39 years old...and you were saying

now plz stop there. Imran never bowled at 150 once in all he's carrier let alone in 1992 when he was 37 year old budha. Akhtar is the fastest bowler ever and even at 32 is fastest bowler in the world.

[Monsee]

Originally Posted by kashif77 w/e... shoiab haters are getting quite pathetic ... why don't they also complain about gul's fitness who is 7 years younger then shoaib .. only bowls at 130 kph and has much more injury problems then akhter ?

Gul didn't put 30 pounds or so every time he gets injured and comes back only to be unfit again soon

Gul's problems are due to his action and extreme work ethic...Shoaib would die 10 times to get close to what that kid has shown in his short career so far i.e. 11% commitment every time

[Truthteller]

Originally Posted by shan Imran is 100% right here. Fact is we never won a test against SA without Akhtar special contributions, so it will be miracle if we go onto win next test there without our ace pacer.

What? Our chances of winning the next test are improved by having Akhter sit in the dressing room? Next you will be saying he should be in the eleven and Pakistan take the field with 10 men.

You might be an Imran worshipper and therefore feel spellbound in supporting anything he says. To the rest of us it not only sounds but actually is complete nonsense.

[SUPERSAMI]

Originally Posted by kashif77 w/e... shoiab haters are getting quite pathetic ... why don't they also complain about gul's fitness who is 7 years younger then shoaib .. only bowls at 130 kph and has much more injury problems then akhter ?

I was just correcting you, not bashing Shoaib. Imran by his own admission didn't start bowling at his fastest until he was 31 and Bret Lee is 30 and bowls faster than Shoaib does now, so it is possible to bowl 150kph and remain fit even in to the 30's.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by kashif77 w/e... shoiab haters are getting quite pathetic ... why don't they also complain about gul's fitness who is 7 years younger then shoaib .. only bowls at 130 kph and has much more injury problems then akhter ?

Gul has been our most consistent bowler for the last year.....and he is a lot quicker than 130kph, that comment only shows to others that you have not actually watched any Pakistan cricket at all.

Oh and we are not Shoaib haters. We are Pakistan cricket lovers and we want what is best for Pakistan cricket. A fit and firing Akhtar is best for Pakistan cricket but not an overweight, unfit Akhtar who lies about his fitness, disrespects a 60 year old man and his team coach and breaks down in the middle of a test match putting unbelievable pressure on poor Mohammad Asif. Not to mention Shoaib's apparant refusal to keep himself fit while banned.

[Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar]

Originally Posted by Hash Oh and we are not Shoaib haters. We are Pakistan cricket lovers and we want what is best for Pakistan cricket. A fit and firing Akhtar is best for Pakistan cricket but not an overweight, unfit Akhtar who lies about his fitness, disrespects a 60 year old man and his team coach and breaks down in the middle of a test match putting unbelievable pressure on poor Mohammad Asif. Not to mention Shoaib's apparent refusal to keep himself fit while banned.

absolutely...

[Monsee]

Originally Posted by shan now plz stop there. Imran never bowled at 150 once in all he's carrier let alone in 1992 when he was 37 year old budha. Akhtar is the fastest bowler ever and even at 32 is fastest bowler in the world.

Imran has been reported to have bowled at 95 MPH many times...especially during that 1982-83 time frame

When he bowled against England in 1987 (He was 34) and bowling really fast and looking extremely fit...ask Nadeem what he thought of Imran's fitness in that time period

Then after he retired first time after 1987 WC, he was urged by Zia-Ul_Haq to come back in 1988-89 against WI...he came back at 35+ age and destroyed WI in WI in the first test and many said he bowling extremely fast during that test!

He developed an injury in that test and yet played with pain killers throughout the series

This is what Imran was...Shoaib cannot die enough times to even emulate or try to be what Imran was even at age 35, 36 or even 37

[shan]

Originally Posted by Truthteller What? Our chances of winning the next test are improved by having Akhter sit in the dressing room? Next you will be saying he should be in the eleven and Pakistan take the field with 10 men. You might be an Imran worshipper and therefore feel spellbound in supporting anything he says. To the rest of us it not only sounds but actually is complete nonsense.

have we ever won the test against SA without Akhtar? In all 3 test victories against them he played the most important role.

[shan]

Originally Posted by Monsee Imran has been reported to have bowled at 95 MPH many times...especially during that 1982-83 time frame When he bowled against England in 1987 (He was 34) and bowling really fast and looking extremely fit...ask Nadeem what he thought of Imran's fitness in that time period Then after he retired first time after 1987 WC, he was urged by Zia-Ul_Haq to come back in 1988-89 against WI...he came back at 35+ age and destroyed WI in WI in the first test and many said he bowling extremely fast during that test! He developed an injury in that test and yet played with pain killers throughout the series This is what Imran was...Shoaib cannot die enough times to even emulate or try to be what Imran was even at age 35, 36 or even 37

Imran bowling at 95mph? shows the proof because naked eye can't detect speed.

[SUPERSAMI]

Originally Posted by shan now plz stop there. Imran never bowled at 150 once in all he's carrier let alone in 1992 when he was 37 year old budha. Akhtar is the fastest bowler ever and even at 32 is fastest bowler in the world.

Oh please, 150kph doesn't start and end with Shoaib Akhtar, Imran was a genuine fast bowler, granted not as fast as Shoaib is probably but to say he never bowled 150kph is just retarded, but expected from you

[Hash]

Inzi played a far more important role than Shoaib in this victory......and the MOTM adjudicator agreed.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Hash Inzi played a far more important role than Shoaib in this victory......and the MOTM adjudicator agreed.

the MOM decider is a Shoaib Hater who can't see who won the match

[Amoeba]

Originally Posted by shan now plz stop there. Imran never bowled at 150 once in all he's carrier let alone in 1992 when he was 37 year old budha. Akhtar is the fastest bowler ever and even at 32 is fastest bowler in the world.

Considering that when Thommo was timed at 99.9mph he was coming back from injury and past his pace peak I somehow don't think so. It is not unbelievable that Thommo has bowled above 100mph many times (not just one harmless delivery in a Jamodi) and could probably bowl in excess of 105mph.

[Hammad]

Total crap from Imran. I think it is quite a paradox that two Pakistani cricketing legends, Imran and Akram, who were so invaluable to the team while playing, later in retirment began to cast a dark shadow on Pakistan cricket, owing to their tendency to promote their favourites/agenda. Sending Shoaib, whose fitness even the best of times is ify, while he has not demonstrated that he is fit is courting disaster. And lo and behold we almost got into a disastrous situtation precisely because of that, thanks to rushing Shoaib to SA because of the enormous pressure put on by the czars or rather the bane of Pakistani cricket like Imran and Akram. God forbids if anything happens to Asif, I would hold Shoabi, Imran and Akram directly responsible for that fiasco.

[shan]

Originally Posted by Amoeba Considering that when Thommo was timed at 99.9mph he was coming back from injury and past his pace peak I somehow don't think so. It is not unbelievable that Thommo has bowled above 100mph many times (not just one harmless delivery in a Jamodi) and could probably bowl in excess of 105mph.

all excuses, there is not enough proof that thomi bowled at 100mph. this is all bs and why bring thomi here? he was crap bowler hiding behind great lille

[Amoeba]

Originally Posted by shan all excuses, there is not enough proof that thomi bowled at 100mph. this is all bs and why bring thomi here? he was crap bowler hiding behind great lille

Because Thommo bowled the fastest timed delivery - 99.9mph a record which the great injured one put all his misguided efforts in breaking in his early years. Now is it inconceivable that Thommo may have bowled 0.1mph quicker sometime during his career when speedguns weren't around?
In fact people of the calibre of Ian Chappell, Clive LLoyd and Imran have mentioned that he would have bowled in the 100-107.5mph range.

Now as I have said many times, I don't rate pace as the be all and end all of being a great bowler but you do it seems. So by that reckoning the crap thommo was still better than great the (permanently injured) Shoaib because he bowled faster. Enough rope to hang yourself by?

[Serendipity]

Partly I can ssee the both sides of the argument but what about Shoaib Malik and Umar Gul who were both on tour despite ebeing injured, one of themonly recently got back?

[12thMan]

Shoaib Malik I think got injured in the practice match and he was fine before that. Gul was questionable. Having Shoaib in dressing room might just be one problem and controlling him on the tour another (what he does affects others) but one cannot lose 20 some pounds in 3 weeks or tour. what was he doing while being banned? waiting for a tour to get fit

[Ilyas]

Imran Khan is right...

Imran Khan himself played World Cup 1992 with injury...

Yes: As long as in any match Shaoib can send down ten overs, he should be played...

World Cup Second Round is gruesome and Pakistan will need to intelligently use Shoaib through that round to make sure they reach the Semi-Finals...

After that twenty overs of Shoaib will be most crucial together with 20 by Mohammad Asif...

[12thMan]

I just love it when every other article Imran Khan goes on with "I did this" and "I did that"

[Monsee]

Originally Posted by shan Imran bowling at 95mph? shows the proof because naked eye can't detect speed.

Imran at the age of 27-28 when he became the 3rd fastest bowler in the World, in a competition in Australia...was being clocked at 135-138 MPH and that in a competition which supposedly was not by any stretch of imagination as accurate as the speed guns these days; many believed Thomo was much faster than the competition showed him to be!

Now at that age Imran was still a novice as a Fast Bowler...he had just turned the corner as an out and out fast bowler (even bowled with a different action); in the later years, especially around 1982-1989, he was the fastest he ever was (except for a period when he was out with injury)

Yes, no one has any proof how fast Imran actually was but same is the case with God...what proof you have God exists (except our Iman)?

Same is the case with air...how do you breath it without ever seeing it?

Imran at his fastest was probably a 150-155 KMH bowler and anyone who has seen world's best batsmen including Viv Richards playing him with respect and caution can attest to that!

[Amir]

Originally Posted by Ilyas Imran Khan is right... Imran Khan himself played World Cup 1992 with injury... Yes: As long as in any match Shaoib can send down ten overs, he should be played... World Cup Second Round is gruesome and Pakistan will need to intelligently use Shoaib through that round to make sure they reach the Semi-Finals... After that twenty overs of Shoaib will be most crucial together with 20 by Mohammad Asif...

I do not think Imran understands teh severity of Shoaib's injury. Imran didn't have a hamstring injury. How will Shoaib steam in if he can't run? There goes his bowling action.

[Monsee]

Originally Posted by Ilyas Imran Khan is right... Imran Khan himself played World Cup 1992 with injury... Yes: As long as in any match Shaoib can send down ten overs, he should be played... World Cup Second Round is gruesome and Pakistan will need to intelligently use Shoaib through that round to make sure they reach the Semi-Finals... After that twenty overs of Shoaib will be most crucial together with 20 by Mohammad Asif...

But who will bowl those other 10 overs by Shoaib cause he will in all likelihood be out injured after the first 10!

I see the point that Shoaib will be asolutely vital for us in WC but does he even realises that when he eats himself to 25-30 pounds over his normal weight or by not working as hard as he could on his fitness?

[Ilyas]

Originally Posted by Amir I do not think Imran understands teh severity of Shoaib's injury. Imran didn't have a hamstring injury. How will Shoaib steam in if he can't run? There goes his bowling action.

Imran does not know what is hamstring injury

Winning the World Cup 2007 means one needs to play with the minds of the opponents as well: So Imran Khan has given such a valuable advise...

[safehands46]

clearing up some facts imran bowled at his fastest mid nineties to low nineties. he had alot of stamina though.

ok and regards to the comments regarding shoaib, its slightly out of context Imrans theory is that shoaib is a match winners regardless of attitude should be in the team. He always backs someone who will win a match. He says tempremental types like akhtar qadir sarfraz need special backing in order to perform at the right times. regardless of behavior for the betterment of the team they have to be with the squad. In a seperate interview recently he was asked about the second test bowling line up and he said he would win the world cup again.

[Amoeba]

Originally Posted by Monsee Imran at the age of 27-28 when he became the 3rd fastest bowler in the World, in a competition in Australia...was being clocked at 135-138 MPH and that in a competition which supposedly was not by any stretch of imagination as accurate as the speed guns these days; many believed Thomo was much faster than the competition showed him to be! Now at that age Imran was still a novice as a Fast Bowler...he had just turned the corner as an out and out fast bowler (even bowled with a different action); in the later years, especially around 1982-1989, he was the fastest he ever was (except for a period when he was out with injury) Yes, no one has any proof how fast Imran actually was but same is the case with God...what proof you have God exists (except our Iman)? Same is the case with air...how do you breath it without ever seeing it? Imran at his fastest was probably a 150-155 KMH bowler and anyone who has seen world's best batsmen including Viv Richards playing him with respect and caution can attest to that!

I think you mean 135-138 kPH - otherwise that really would be something!

As for Thommo he was probably at his fastest in 73-75 before he had his shoulder injury. However he was still timed at 99.9mph but obviously that is just BS, as is the considered opinion of the greats who faced him, according to Shan.

[Monsee]

Originally Posted by Amoeba I think you mean 135-138 kPH - otherwise that really would be something! As for Thommo he was probably at his fastest in 73-75 before he had his shoulder injury. However he was still timed at 99.9mph but obviously that is just BS, as is the considered opinion of the greats who faced him, according to Shan.

That would definitely be something...what would Indians call such a Phaast Imran: A Berry berry Berry Phaast Maaphic Bowler

[safehands46]

Originally Posted by 12thMan I just love it when every other article Imran Khan goes on with "I did this" and "I did that"

21 years of cricket. leading averages as an all rounder. best captain in history. found some of the top players. won a the first series in india, england. world cup seems pretty decent. last pakistan team to be first in the ranking. developed most of the current strategical schemes used today. spinners in odis, attacking fields and so on.


Imran is right, fast bowlers win you matches. We need a fit shoaib akhtar to win the world cup. we would have the best bowling line up with him.

[12thMan]

If Imran Khan had a hamstring injury he would have hopped on one leg or used crutches to bowl in second innings

At the dummy captain incident, He is also the one who said he would have punched someone because of disrespect shown. What does that mean ... a VIP cannot wait for 10 min to talk with the boss and would punch a 70 year old man for it

[12thMan]

safehands46 - Imran was the best cricketer Pakistan produced and maybe the best of the 80s. But bringing "I did this" everytime is too much. Even my kids won't understand if I kept on telling them I did this and that. What he did was great but it is a different time and different team. one should not be bringing up and comparing his achievments to show others they are not that good

[siddharth]

Almost every body was bowling arouned 140,145,150 speed in that PE test .yeah even Kallis clocked 147 ,so some thing wrong with their calculation.regarding Thommos's speed,obvoiusly he bowled more than 100MPH .even Patrick Patterson bowled with that speed .Unluckily they belong to that era ,where speed guns were not so popular .the theory of Imran is not working here.he took injured Qadir ,Akram with the team.but i think they played full test match ,they might not have sat out after playing one innings.and had a an aggressive argument with the coach as well totally different scenario.but it is safe to take Akhtar for WC ,its only ODI's .

[safehands46]

Originally Posted by 12thMan safehands46 - Imran was the best cricketer Pakistan produced and maybe the best of the 80s. But bringing "I did this" everytime is too much. Even my kids won't understand if I kept on telling them I did this and that. What he did was great but it is a different time and different team. one should not be bringing up and comparing his achievments to show others they are not that good

well then why is everyone taking it so seriously. he irony for me, is the context this is taken at karachi press club, where he was there for his campaign questions. He was simply asked a question on shoaib he stuck to what he said before. thats it instead there is a whole article about this but none about the praise he showered on the current bowling attack.

basically, if you didnt value his opinion then you wouldnt argue this. but if you did you would argue. to me it seems in context of that you do value his opinion. as regard to boasting, credibility comes from your previous achievements. Imrans say phd in cricket has credibility therefore people listen. your kid arguement is sort of badly placed we are not kids. we do not rationalize like kids as kids have different interests. Its like if someone asked me something about golf i could care less.

[shan]

Originally Posted by Amoeba Because Thommo bowled the fastest timed delivery - 99.9mph a record which the great injured one put all his misguided efforts in breaking in his early years. Now is it inconceivable that Thommo may have bowled 0.1mph quicker sometime during his career when speedguns weren't around? In fact people of the calibre of Ian Chappell, Clive LLoyd and Imran have mentioned that he would have bowled in the 100-107.5mph range. Now as I have said many times, I don't rate pace as the be all and end all of being a great bowler but you do it seems. So by that reckoning the crap thommo was still better than great the (permanently injured) Shoaib because he bowled faster. Enough rope to hang yourself by?

as i said this is all bs. I just don't believe that thomo bowled over 100mph because some so called greats are saying because naked eye can't detect speed.

[midwicket]

Imran has a strong/confident personality and is not easily fazed by the likes of Akhtar. Talent often goes together with an excessive regard for oneself - we could all reel off a list or two. Imran could utilise players like that in a cricket context. I think if you badly want to win yourself then that draws in other competitive people.

So Imran may be a politician, out of touch, not know about hamstring injuries, etc. But he would have got the best out of Akhtar and can't be dismissed so easily.

[Truthteller]

Originally Posted by shan have we ever won the test against SA without Akhtar? In all 3 test victories against them he played the most important role.

There is a difference between Akhter playing and Akhter sitting in the dressing room.

A fit and firing Akhter is a winning ingredient. But an injured one sitting in the dressing room - what good is that? Which I believe, after Imran, is what you were advocating.

[shan]

Originally Posted by Monsee Imran at the age of 27-28 when he became the 3rd fastest bowler in the World, in a competition in Australia...was being clocked at 135-138 MPH and that in a competition which supposedly was not by any stretch of imagination as accurate as the speed guns these days; many believed Thomo was much faster than the competition showed him to be! Now at that age Imran was still a novice as a Fast Bowler...he had just turned the corner as an out and out fast bowler (even bowled with a different action); in the later years, especially around 1982-1989, he was the fastest he ever was (except for a period when he was out with injury) Yes, no one has any proof how fast Imran actually was but same is the case with God...what proof you have God exists (except our Iman)? Same is the case with air...how do you breath it without ever seeing it? Imran at his fastest was probably a 150-155 KMH bowler and anyone who has seen world's best batsmen including Viv Richards playing him with respect and caution can attest to that!

don't compare apple with oranges. If there was something wrong with the speed guns then even i can say that Akhtar bowled over 110mph.

[siddharth]

Originally Posted by shan as i said this is all bs. I just don't believe that thomo bowled over 100mph because some so called greats are saying because naked eye can't detect speed.

you won't accept it,cos you are a fan boy.speed guns in WC2003 was showing one delivery of Wasim Akram as 161.2Kph .what was that?,.then they said it was a mistake .so even today the speed guns are not reliable.

[Monsee]

Originally Posted by shan don't compare apple with oranges. If there was something wrong with the speed guns then even i can say that Akhtar bowled over 110mph.

Shoaib has been recorded all over the world...with different guns and yet he has come out with the same speeds; there goes that 110 MPH theory

Mine still stands cause expert every where agrees that the earlier speed guns were not as accurate as the current ones...you can play the tabla for all I care but experts are folks who know what they are talking about!

You, on the other hand are just blinded by the worshipping of a Wannabee

[12thMan]

basically, if you didnt value his opinion then you wouldnt argue this. but if you did you would argue. to me it seems in context of that you do value his opinion. as regard to boasting, credibility comes from your previous achievements. Imrans say phd in cricket has credibility therefore people listen. your kid arguement is sort of badly placed we are not kids. we do not rationalize like kids as kids have different interests. Its like if someone asked me something about golf i could care less

I don't value ex-players comments much if all they say is filled with negatives or start going with "I". Imran, let's say has a phd, now should he just go about saying while I was doing phd I did this and that instead of saying how to tackle or solve current problems or how the bowling should be given that we have X, Y and Z bowlers the next match or what was wrong in field placement or batting or what the team should be. He is not being a good teacher, analyst or a leader here. When someone brings himself and his achievments too much into different scenarios it doesn't look good to me and does bring the impression he is talking to kids

[shan]

Originally Posted by 12thMan I don't value ex-players comments much if all they say is filled with negatives or start going with "I". Imran, let's say has a phd, now should he just go about saying while I was doing phd I did this and that instead of saying how to tackle or solve current problems or how the bowling should be given that we have X, Y and Z bowlers the next match or what was wrong in field placement or batting or what the team should be. He is not being a good teacher, analyst or a leader here. When someone brings himself and his achievments too much into different scenarios it doesn't look good to me and does bring the impression he is talking to kids

he always talk like that! he only give credit to him self for 92 WC win but forgot that Pakistan played WC s before as well with him but only won in 92.

[Legendary_Sage]

I really respect imran as cricketer but off late he is giving undue favour to stupid akhtar.i dont understand y he is unable to find any fault in akhtar.
on the other hand he is very annoyed with the captaincy of inzi.i admit inzi is not the best captain around the world n he is very defensive in his approach n also gives a lot of support to his fav cricketers like kami,arshad khan,mushi,malik,abdulrazzaq etc
but he has also bring unity in the team.which has never been the case in our team since imran left.
i really doubt shoaib honesty after spat with woolmer n breaking down just after bowling 10 to 12 overs.this is really pathetic.

[Sultan Yusuf]

That is wholly unfair on other cricketers who have been working hard on their fitness, it is a waste of a spot in the squad and it isn't right that someone should just come with the squad, stay in the 5 star hotel (though that is a negative thing according to Fletcher), chill by the pool and enjoy a holiday while everyone else is playing hard and determined cricket.

Fairness has nothing to do with winning matches. If you want to win matches, you devise the best strategy. And if that involves including a match-winner, despite fitness concerns then that is the way to go.

I'll admit, I was pretty peeved at Shoaib too. However, one thing that cannot be doubted is - even in those couple of sessions, the inclusion of shoaib decided the match. Many a cricket match has been won over 2 sessions, and this is proof of it. Yes shoaib didn't do it all on his won, he had excellent support from the rest of the bowlers, but in a way they also performed because of shoaib. When was the last time Danish got 3 wickets within the 1st 2 sessions of a test match?

Graeme Smith himself said that the major factor in the loss was that they were unable to come back from the massive blow they received on the first day....

[Raza Sohail]

graeme "crybaby" smith also said SA lost because of mental fatigue.

[Amoeba]

Originally Posted by shan as i said this is all bs. I just don't believe that thomo bowled over 100mph because some so called greats are saying because naked eye can't detect speed.

So you can't conceive that Thommo bowled at least 0.1mph quicker during his whole career at some point than he did in 76/77? Notwithstanding he had a major shoulder injury which meant that he reduced his pace he was still consistently quicker than Shoaib.

So now Chappell, Lloyd and Imran are so called greats. Either way I would rather take their opinion having actually faced Thommo than that of some deluded teenage scribbler.

[safehands46]

Originally Posted by buntylover_2000 I really respect imran as cricketer but off late he is giving undue favour to stupid akhtar.i dont understand y he is unable to find any fault in akhtar. on the other hand he is very annoyed with the captaincy of inzi.i admit inzi is not the best captain around the world n he is very defensive in his approach n also gives a lot of support to his fav cricketers like kami,arshad khan,mushi,malik,abdulrazzaq etc but he has also bring unity in the team.which has never been the case in our team since imran left. i really doubt shoaib honesty after spat with woolmer n breaking down just after bowling 10 to 12 overs.this is really pathetic.

I have really explained this before. Imran doesnt turn on the people he supports so basically it kills and makes him. Anyone who has the talent and guts to win he supports. his theory simple, this player wins matches for me so i support no matter what with the hard aches and what not I will percerviere and he will win me matches.

The pakistan cricket board theory, this player is a nuisance he gets board in trouble, drop him. and make him the scapegoat everytime. Imran supported inzi when he failed, he supported wasim when he was dropped. Imran always supports his favorites. no matter how bad they do or how good they do.

[Monsee]

Naved, stop harping about Shoaib...he has taken our only good hope of a series win with him too i.e. Asif being injurwed due to the huge load!

Lanat hai aisaay match winner per...I do hope now (If Asif is really out of the match) that Shoaib never plays for Pak again; we will be alright without him.

I have never wished for this before but I will be hoping that his 'Shodaa Baaz' face is not on T.V. ever again in a cricket game

[isr]

Imran Khan has the strength of his convictions. If he feels someone, or something, is right, he'll back them ALL the way. Thats not a bad personality trait to have - uncommon amongst Pakistani's.

That doesn't mean he's always right. I've already posted http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...973#post932973 what risks and benefits Shoaib brings to the team.

Keeping Shoaib with the team does bring the following benefits:
1) he's still a part of the squad mindset, and becomes less of a "loose cannon", used and discarded at will (which can't be good for the ego).
2) when left to his own devices, he doesn't bust a gut in rehab. Within the team environment, his rehab pace will be pushed.
3) the opposition is still kept guessing what they will have to face.

This constant flying players in and out of tours annoys me. If we have injury worries, select a slightly bigger squad. We could have done with Afridi, Abdur, etc with the team from the begining (even if selectors really only wanted them for the ODI's).

This goes hand in hand with having more warmup games (or else, extra players DO become a hindrance).

[12thMan]

If we have injury worries, select a slightly bigger squad.

kiya baraat layjani hey?

BTW: Is there a squad limit

[Sultan Yusuf]

Originally Posted by Monsee Naved, stop harping about Shoaib...he has taken our only good hope of a series win with him too i.e. Asif being injurwed due to the huge load! Lanat hai aisaay match winner per...I do hope now (If Asif is really out of the match) that Shoaib never plays for Pak again; we will be alright without him. I have never wished for this before but I will be hoping that his 'Shodaa Baaz' face is not on T.V. ever again in a cricket game

It seems like you're almost hoping for Asif to be injured to prove your ridiculous point...

[safehands46]

Originally Posted by isr Imran Khan has the strength of his convictions. If he feels someone, or something, is right, he'll back them ALL the way. Thats not a bad personality trait to have - uncommon amongst Pakistani's. That doesn't mean he's always right. I've already posted http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...973#post932973 what risks and benefits Shoaib brings to the team. Keeping Shoaib with the team does bring the following benefits: 1) he's still a part of the squad mindset, and becomes less of a "loose cannon", used and discarded at will (which can't be good for the ego). 2) when left to his own devices, he doesn't bust a gut in rehab. Within the team environment, his rehab pace will be pushed. 3) the opposition is still kept guessing what they will have to face. This constant flying players in and out of tours annoys me. If we have injury worries, select a slightly bigger squad. We could have done with Afridi, Abdur, etc with the team from the begining (even if selectors really only wanted them for the ODI's). This goes hand in hand with having more warmup games (or else, extra players DO become a hindrance).

It really didnt hinder the team we won the match. I mean the desicion will have to come on whether to focus on odi or tests. I truly dont think he can play this much cricket. without his weightloss pills and creatine he will struggle.

His attitude is one that everyone hates on like a terrell owens or someone. To me it should be a non issue. Inzimam has to be able to control him. I mean not everyone is carbon copy. Its all about managing.

The second thing is the pcb does a half ass job, they take these wishy washy stances. if you want to rid of something do it and if you want to back somethng do it. instead we have bari try to make sure he doesnt screw himself.

[PlanetPakistan]

Good on Imran...he is always fair to the players and doesn't jump on the bandwagon!

[isr]

Here's what I think. The real problem is the baying mob on the sidelines. They whine and scream murder and consipiracy when Shoaib is left out of the squad, on fitness grounds. Then they whine and scream murder when Shoaib plays, and gets injured.

We need more level headed reactions. Slagging off Shoaib is NOT going to help him. He doesn't WANT to be injured. If he's 80% fit, and is asked if he's ready to play - he's going to say yes. He WANTS to play. Who wouldn't?

Lets just handle him better, without the histrionics. Keep him inside Team Pakistan (how I hate that Americanism!), not outside. Don't let a media circus build up over his fitness. Rehab him, play him when ready. Accept the fact that he is likely to break down again anyway. Don't heap praise on him one day for taking 4 wickets, and then heap abuse on him for having the gall to tweak his hamstring the next day (as if he meant to).

Shoaib WILL always be a fit now, unfit tomorrow player. Accept it, and use him when we can. Because, even in short bursts, he can still be an asset.

[SUPERSAMI]

Injuries happen and in Shoaib's case they happen allot, but going to SA with the fitness of a nine months pregnant women didn't help those hammies of his one bit. He's always had discipline issues and is a disruption to the dressing room atmosphere, if he can't play then theres no point in him being with the team. He may be a match winner on the pitch but off it he's just a nuisance.

[siddharth]

i wonder what actually Imran will do if Shoaib was playing with him.Khan might be happily bowling 50-60 overs on behalf of the injured match winner.and happily stick with him along with the team and encourage him to do the same thing in the next test as well.

[Blistering Barnacle]

People here don't seem to be able to distinguish between a hamstring injury and match fitness.

Akhtar's weight has not ballooned since the England series at home as far as I can tell.

Yet people blame his physical fitness for a hamstring injury. The truth is, anyone can get a hamstring injury, whether they are slim or have a bulkier physique like Akhtar's.

I agree with what Imran has said. And Akhtar's bowling in the first innings, when Asif didn't seem to be as penetrative as normal, contributed significantly to Pakistan's win.