5th ODI at Kanpur: Stats and team/strategy discussion [12/04/05]

[shikari]

The next ODI in Kanpur may see Danish Kaneria's exit from the playing eleven. I think they will have Arhad come in the side for DK. Hafeez may be a possibility, but i would go with Arshad.
If batting first, I think Pak will go with YK as the opener. I think Akmal somehow managed to lose his opening slot for unknown reasons.

Batting second, if the team is chasing a huge total then i dont see any changes in the batting order.

Does anyone think that Rana or Sami may be rested for the next game ?

[Rob H]

YK should be boosted up the order. He is wasted coming in at the end forced to slog.

[AFRIDI 4]

no i dont thin there should be any chnage to the team or batting line up,as it has worked well for us in the last few games. afrid should reamin openig wheter we bat first or second coz even if we bat first wee need a good starrt and hopefully afridi can produce and so we can get a big total on the board

[DM]

AFRIDI!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AFRIDI 4]

yes DM????????

[AFRIDI 4]

yes DM??????????????????

;)+

[Abdul Qadir 236]

stick with Danish. would like to see Shahid Nazir somewhere, maybe for Younis if he is going to be wasted down the list.

[AFRIDI 4]

how can u replace a bowler with a batsmen, so well only have butt, afridi, malik, yoyo and inzi

[Naveed]

I would not make any changes. No need to mess with a winning combo. I'd like to see Danish given more of an oppurtunity before dropping him.

[Abdul Qadir 236]

if Younis is a specialist batsman at 7 or 8 facing about 10 balls it is a token gesture yaar. Every player has to conribute whatever team it is.

[Sheikh_Ji]

stick with Danish.... give him some time...he'll become an excellent ODI bowler

[Naveed]

Originally Posted by AmitMishra bowls wrongun if Younis is a specialist batsman at 7 or 8 facing about 10 balls it is a token gesture yaar. Every player has to conribute whatever team it is.

I would keep Younis in the line-up as he can basically bat anywhere depending on the situation. Yes he has been wasted the last 2 matches, but he would have been pretty handy in the first 2 when we were collapsing!

[Abdul Qadir 236]

well no one is a more ardent backer of Younis Khan than I am but he has to be utilised properly.

[Naveed]

Well, I don't see the problem with him being in the middle line-up as a backstop when our top order collapses (which it is prone to do every so often!). I'm convinced that the outcomes of the first 2 matches would have been different had he been in there.

He adds so much on the field too. Why drop him for a 7th bowler?

[AFRIDI 4]

well said naveed
i totally agree

[Abdul Qadir 236]

u should pick players for positive reasons and not for the deficiencies of others.

[Naveed]

Originally Posted by AmitMishra bowls wrongun u should pick players for positive reasons and not for the deficiencies of others.

We should pick players to win matches under all circumstances.

[nedian21]

team shd be retained. why change a winning combo. Danish need some time and confidence. and though YK isnt utilised properly but he shd be retained. u never know with Pakistan. and he can held the innings together. plus he gives u real fighting spirit and energy in the field.

[Abdul Qadir 236]

oh if it was down to me he would always be in the team and batting in the top5 at the worst.

[adi 101]

i want shoaib akhtar back in the team for the last to odis!!!!!!!!

[Abdul Qadir 236]

well what i would say is that i would pick my best players regardless of conditions. maybe u can play an extra spinner if necessary but stability is the key i feel, so long as a culture of complacency doesnt set in.
shoaib akhtar should come back in WI as should beera.
world class bowlers are a very rare commodity and Shoaib at least is undoubtedly one of them.

[zorawar]

Younus is our insurance policy if Inzi and Yoyo fall early so he is ok at #6. If needed he can be sent up or down as he can bat anywhere.

Bottom Line: We need to play Younus.
-----------

Afridi will give you 30-40 runs at opening slot about 25-30% of the time... the rest of the time we will start with the first wicket down in the first few overs. Yesterday also Dhoni dropped a sitter otherwise he was gone for single digits again.

Malik, Inzi and Razzaq's current form and inclusion of Younus gives us enough depth to justify sending in a mindless slogger at open to get the psychological edge.
Bottom Line: Not a good tactic otherwise but perhaps justified in these conditions.
-------------

Kaneria.... if we play him, we play him to get wickets.. at the cost of him going at 10 runs an over. Since Malik is bowling now (I am still not sure how) we have some flexibility in trying him out although I really doubt if he can do much damage in the few overs he can bowl.

The important thing about Kaneria is that I hope we don't mess up his confidence by giving him 3-4 overs every game where he keeps getting stick. Then again dropping him at this point will also probably not do wonders for hi confidence.

Bottom Line: What the hell.. lets keep playing him as well since neither of the other options are exactly our players for the future... If he gets one of the top 6 out... it will be worth playing him

[pakistani pride]

We DONT NEED YOUNIS KHAN FOR ODIs !!!

malik is a fine number 3 bat and razzaq proved again he can bat without trying to hit every ball !

Afridis role is to get a quick 35-40 runs so we are off to a flyer after that we have enough batters who can continue. younis khan comes to late and he has to slog i feel sorry for him cause that is not helping his cause. maybe yoyo shud be RESTED so younis can play but at the moment i wud drop younis for a bowler ( s. nazir)

The indians have been crying about gangs but if we play hafeez or younis then you have a player in the team who is not needed. !!! i wud play the extra bowler in next 2 games

[Cartman]

I think after what has happened so far in the series, we should play like 9 batsmen and Sami and Rana.. Get Younis and Malik to bowl alongwith Inzi, Butt etc. Put maybe Hafeez in there..



Because regular bowlers go for 6-7 an over too.. I don't think part time bowlers could do worse.. its ridiculous how the face of cricket has changed.. anything around 220 used to be a good total. 250 plus used to be a winning total. 270 plus would virtually seal a win. now you score 300 and still lose it..


I don't know what sort of watered down, or whatever you wanna call it, wicket they have over there and even in Pakistan.. or maybe its just the general mentality these days. quick singles and doubles has been turned into an art, we have reduced options for bowlers, batsmen are more slog happy than ever etc, but its producing really batsman friendly contests..



I DONT LIKE THAT.

I cannot really have any suggestion for who should play or not play at this point.. It seems to me you put a pace attack of Wasim, Waqar, Mcgrath, Thompson out there with Qadir, Warne, Kumble and Murali to back them and they would still end up getting hit for close to 300 runs..

Maybe we should not play bowlers at all...

how annoying!

[shikari]

PP,

Keep in mind YK's fielding is a plus in ODI's. The four catches and the crucial run out of Sehwag brings a lot of value to the team. I strongly believe that YK will open the innings if we happen to bat first or chasing a target of 275 or under.
Adding another bowler in the team is useless in my opinion, these dead pitches are not conducive to any kind of bowling. The end result of playing an extra bowler may just be the same which wont be a wise move if done at the expense of a batsman.

[Saj]

I would stick with the same team. They have had 2 good victories and whilst Danish has gone for runs, I think he deserves at least one more chance this series.

[pakistani pride]

true danish deserves to get another chance but shikari if younis plays he needs to come in before number 5 otherwise its a waste and i dont see a spot form him there and you cant be playinf alone by the reason that you can field well

if we had nezir for example or rao our bowlers wud have more rest and more options for inzi

[Cartman]

You cannot kick your Vice kuptaan out.. he is your guy for the future..

[shikari]

Saj,

I dont think sticking to the same team is a good move. Winning 2 games in a row does not mean that we should stop looking for improvements. Chasing 300 + does not happen everyday, we should be looking to improve the containment of runs. Bowling DK for 3 overs in this game really mean that we played with 10 specliat players and a substitute. If we are going to see a high scoring affair for the remainder of the series then we should bolster our batting by bringing hafeez who can bowl if needed. Next game if India scores 300 + and DK goes for runs or not used for a substantial amount, we may see a lot of media bashing on that

[Cartman]

we should sit out kaneria and bring in Nazir..

Butt
Afridi
Razzaq
Malik
Inzi
Youhana
YK
Akmal
Sami
Rana
Nazir

Three pacers and 2 spinners.
I would like that.. Kaneria goes for too many runs.

[Hash]

NEVER change a winning combination

The only change I can see is maybe Rao or Nazir in for Kaneria

[shikari]

Hash,
lol, kinda conflisting statements in a single post.

NEVER change and then the only change you see.

[zorawar]

Originally Posted by PAKISTANI PRIDE !!! true danish deserves to get another chance but shikari if younis plays he needs to come in before number 5 otherwise its a waste and i dont see a spot form him there and you cant be playinf alone by the reason that you can field well if we had nezir for example or rao our bowlers wud have more rest and more options for inzi

Wait till we get one of our famous mini collapses.... then you will cry to have Younus in there...

YOUNUS IS OUR INSURANCE POLICY. Keep him in there. We don't need any more bowlers... more bowling options will confuse Inzi even more :$

[Amjid Javed]

rao for kaneria
S nazir for sami

rest same as b4....

[Noddy]

i see the same side for kanpur.

[shikari]

AJ,

why do you think that Nazir can do better than Sami ?

[Cartman]

Honestly the game they are playing in India these days is not cricket..


I mean God's sakes.. you can expect to win even if you play 2 regular medium pacers, 1 part time spinner, the bush twins and artist formerly known as Prince...

the only condition is they should know how to make quick 15-20 runs in the last overs.

hhehe..

But seriously.. do we really need bowlers? Chacha Bob was right all along. He has proved us wrong every step..

Even in tests.. jeez.

I refuse to pass any comments from now on.

[pakistani pride]

well thats india

zorawar i say its hard on younis to come in and bat for 10 balls !

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by shikari AJ, why do you think that Nazir can do better than Sami ?

read my thread on "rise of rana and decline of sami"

then u can answer ur own question....

;)+ ;)+

[shikari]

OK
that is it this thread should be closed effective immediately.
Noddy Bhai just said no changes in the team. Any discussion on team composition from this point on is just mere noise

[Amjid Javed]

we can still speculate its fun....

[Cartman]

I say we keep the same side or at the most bring in Nazir or Rao for Kaneria..

If we are chasing anything close to 300, open with Afridi and go for broke..

If we are batting first try YK to open. I have faith in his ability to give us a good start.. with the heavy hitters at the end, we can get to 320-350 easily if we bat anything like we batted today.


In fact the way we played today if continue that form, and tighten up our bowling and fielding a bit, we can easily win the series.

[kashmiri]

my fave 11


advani
sonia
rahul
manmohan
vajpayee
priyanka
modi
sehgal
bal thakarey
jaswant
uma bharti


(mis)manager jethmalani



manager bush senior

[Hydro]

personally id drop kaineria for hafeez

and maybe sami for someone (to rest him)

[AFRIDI 4]

y rest him, this is the decisve odi, we need to win to have eny chace of winnig the series

[Ayubi]

drop younis khan or kaneria for shahid nazir.

[razzler]

No changes please.

[merabhai]

Originally Posted by Cartman we should sit out kaneria and bring in Nazir.. Butt Afridi Razzaq Malik Inzi Youhana YK Akmal Sami Rana Nazir Three pacers and 2 spinners. I would like that.. Kaneria goes for too many runs.

3 pacers and twospinners ...wat about razzaq?

Kaneria needs to replaced by Nazir/Rao or Arshad/Hafeez. All depends on the pitch. If its anything liek today Arshad Khan should play

[161]

We need Shoaib and Shabbir back now !! What the F is the PCB waiting for - India to score 400 runs and then say OK we can use them now ???

Our Bowling attack should be Rana, Shoaib, Shabbir, Razzaq, Afridi, Malik.

It Shoaib and Shabbir are still not called back - bring in Nazir for Danish (not Rao - he has had his opportunity, and so far he does not look like a wicket taking bowler in international cricket )

[Cartman]

Originally Posted by merabhai Originally Posted by Cartman we should sit out kaneria and bring in Nazir.. Butt Afridi Razzaq Malik Inzi Youhana YK Akmal Sami Rana Nazir Three pacers and 2 spinners. I would like that.. Kaneria goes for too many runs. 3 pacers and twospinners ...wat about razzaq?

I knew I was missing something. thanks Mera Bhai...

[Amjid Javed]

venue 5 Kanpur

indian record (played 8) - won 6 lost 2

pakistan neva played on the ground

highest score chased - 255 by eng v india 89/90

quite a low scoring ground

one of indias more favoured venues....

[pakistani pride]

finally a low scoring ground ???

[Amjid Javed]

The highest score batting 1st is 257 and highest overall 259(chasing 255 to win)

[pakistani pride]

good to hear !..

+

[MIG]

259 is nothing for us

[Amjid Javed]

KANPUR, April 12: Cricket fans in Indian city of Kanpur are complaining about non-availability of tickets for fifth One-day International to be played between India and Pakistan at Green Park Stadium here on Friday.

Although mercury here touched 40 degrees centigrade, hundreds of cricket lovers thronged different branches of Central Bank to get match tickets. However, they remained empty-handed because tickets for the match had already been sold out for the day and therefore they were unable to issue more tickets.

Every person standing in queue was given a token and only token holders were allowed inside bank premises in batches. Counters were designated for different denominations. Each token holder was issued two tickets. But, within a few hours organisers closed counters, saying 2000 tickets were sold out.

[Amjid Javed]

From 2-0 down to 2-2 has been a fantastic achievement, but that could all be irrelevant if pakistan lose the next two odis.

pakistan went into this ODI series as favourites and with the momentum after having a previous 4-0 head to head recent record and after winning the 3rd test....

yet all that postiveness was wiped out with defeats in 1st two odis....

pakistan once agen have the momentum... pakistans batsmen are begining to fire, yet the bowlers seem to be just intent on containing and settling to fact india are gona score heavily which is a poor line off thinking.

These two games shud be threated as a semi-final and final by pakistan.

Pakistan must blow it like they did last year.....

series is 2-2 ... NO clear favourites...

[Awesome Anjum]

Agreed, AJ bhai. I've got a funny feeling that this series will end up as being 3-3.

[Pax]

Nagpur pitch = Perth .

Abdul Razzaq/Sami and Rana would find it to their liking.

[Nawazb]

i would not play kaneria i would play s nazir

so my side
salman
afridi
s malik
inzi
yoyo
younis
kamran
sami
rana
s nazir

[MIG]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed KANPUR, April 12: Cricket fans in Indian city of Kanpur are complaining about non-availability of tickets for fifth One-day International to be played between India and Pakistan at Green Park Stadium here on Friday. Although mercury here touched 40 degrees centigrade, hundreds of cricket lovers thronged different branches of Central Bank to get match tickets. However, they remained empty-handed because tickets for the match had already been sold out for the day and therefore they were unable to issue more tickets. Every person standing in queue was given a token and only token holders were allowed inside bank premises in batches. Counters were designated for different denominations. Each token holder was issued two tickets. But, within a few hours organisers closed counters, saying 2000 tickets were sold out.

I wonder if BCCI have heard of a thing called Internet ?

[Amjid Javed]

intresting how last 3 odis have gone same as the 1st three odis in 2004 series...

similar type games aswell...

[MIG]

so you see pak choking in the last 2 , as they did in the Gaddafi ? Scary thought but possible.

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by MenInGreen so you see pak choking in the last 2 , as they did in the Gaddafi ? Scary thought but possible.

sadly i have a funny feeling about it....

[arsal_pakfan]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed From 2-0 down to 2-2 has been a fantastic achievement, but that could all be irrelevant if pakistan lose the next two odis. pakistan went into this ODI series as favourites and with the momentum after having a previous 4-0 head to head recent record and after winning the 3rd test.... yet all that postiveness was wiped out with defeats in 1st two odis.... pakistan once agen have the momentum... pakistans batsmen are begining to fire, yet the bowlers seem to be just intent on containing and settling to fact india are gona score heavily which is a poor line off thinking. These two games shud be threated as a semi-final and final by pakistan. Pakistan must blow it like they did last year..... series is 2-2 ... NO clear favourites...

completely agree with u Amjid bhai!

really we can't pick any favourite at the moment!...all we should do is just pray and hope for a similar performance from our team in the next ODI's!

Indians r not gonna make it easy for Pakistan with Ganguly out ,there is huge happiness in Indian camp and also Kumble is back and he could be lethal on Indian pitches!

lets hope fo the best!

[Jonty]

i mean.. why have six one dayers when you want a result in a series?

[Nauman]

Originally Posted by Nawaz i would not play kaneria i would play s nazir so my side salman afridi s malik inzi yoyo younis kamran sami rana s nazir

I endrose this team, as I said before the 4th ODI that we need a 3rd seamer as Razzaq cannot bowl inside first 15 overs, his strength is the old ball and the reverse swing he gets with it. If either one of Sami or Rana are going for runs Inzi can bring on the third seamer which will either be Rao or Nazir. Though I woul prefer Nazir but we all know that Inzi rates Rao over Nazir.

[nedian21]

yar Nawaz we should not change the winning combo. and Danish need some time to settle in one day mode. He hasnt played that much one dayers. beside Inzi shd attack with him and give him confidence and I am sure Dani will come good. I also want to see nazir in side but not at the expense of Dani. may be Sami but then why change a winning combination. i hope Shahid nazir gets his chances in WIndies provided he is selected again which I doubt since Shabbir, Shoaib will be back

[tahaqureshi]

Nagpur pitch = Perth .

Isn't it being played in Kanpur?

[Karachi King]

these high scoring matches have changed the frame of mind of many people (atleast here in Karachi). i remember the ODIs series in Pak with India. people were started to think 290s as an easy target to chase. i can see that happening in the next match. no matter what will be the score, no matter if its above 300, people will consider it as an easy target to chase & if any team will fail to chase it, they will feel the heat from their country.

Ganguly's exclusion is a big blow for Pak. his pressence meant alot for us. there was a possibility that his bad form with the bat would hit him in his cataincy as well & he start getting -ve in his captaincy. but now he is out of here & Dravid is a true professional & also an inform batsman from India. we will have to work really hard in the next one.

Aneel

[Amjid Javed]

my team

butt
afridi
inzi
malik
yoyo
razzaq
akmal
sami
rana
rao
s nazir

YK is being wasted in side and kaneria needs 2 be dropped.

[tahaqureshi]

AJ's included sami!

the winds of change are blowing

just joking amijd

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by tahaqureshi AJ's included sami! the winds of change are blowing just joking amijd

it was either hafeez or sami.... so i chose the lesser of two evils

arshad and kaneria are no nos at moment!

[Hash]

YK has picked up some vital wickets in the field and is good batsman. He should remain in the side and his batting postion decided by team position...ie if we have lost early wickets then we need someone to steady the ship. He is a versatile player and a team player.

I would stick with exactly the same team minus Danish bhai who I would replace with Rao Iftikhar Anjum.

[tahaqureshi]

amazingly, any team that won the toss and decided to bat has always lost and by margins of 6-9 wkts

[Jahangir Khan]

For the next game, I would stick with the same side but if it is known that the wicket will not suit spin, then maybe we should drop Kaneria and bring in Rao/Nazir.

Although we won the 4th ODI, I didn't totally agree with the batting line up. It is silly to put 3 of our hitters in the top 4 whilst putting Youhana and YK at 6 and 7. In effect, 3 of our bowlers bowled their full overs and then batted in the top 4. I would only play Razzaq at 3 if we lost an early wicket and needed to score fast off the seamers. Otherwise I would send in Malik or YK.

My line up would be:

Butt
Afridi
YK/Malik
Inzi
Youhana
Malik/YK
Razzaq
Akmal
Sami
Rana
Kaneria/Rao

It just does not make sense to play your 3 best batsmen at 5,6 and 7. YK and Youhana need time to settle and play a long innings where as Razzaq and Malik can play the big shots more or less as soon as they come in. I would play Malik at 6 so that he can hit indian spinners when they are bowling at the end.

I doubt very much that Razzaq and Malik would have batted at 3 and 4 if we were batting first in the 4th match.

[Hash]

Jhangir- i thinkthe batting order was more to do with needing a good start. It worked.

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by Hash YK has picked up some vital wickets in the field and is good batsman. He should remain in the side and his batting postion decided by team position...ie if we have lost early wickets then we need someone to steady the ship. He is a versatile player and a team player. I would stick with exactly the same team minus Danish bhai who I would replace with Rao Iftikhar Anjum.

YK isnt worth a place in odi squad as a batsmen, his records a joke and god knows why hes picked agen and agen....!

better players have been given less chances than YK.

[krazy--dude]

wats wrong with all u people saying than shahid nazeer should come in

if rana or sami have to sit out the first choice backup is rao and not nazeer

nazeer didnt do anything special with the a team and i dont know how he got called over yasir arafat