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#1
17th April 2005, 21:57
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Coach's Impact is Minimum: Imran Khan
I was watching Wah Cricket and Imran's Bouncer programme on Indian Channel Star News. Imran Khan here quite rightly mentions that cricket is not like soccer and the coach's impact is minimal and not as great compared to the captain and offcourse the players.
Imran went onto say that people seem to have a misconception that is is the coach that win's a team matches. It can't be as the coach does not take the field and neither does he perform on the field or make bowling changes etc. The players have to perform, listen, have the right attitude and and take the field. Technically the coach can not win or lose a match for any team and Imran again said that it is down to the players. He said if you give a top coach like Woolmer, Wright or Buchnan the job of coaching say Zimbabwe or Bangladesh the results of the team wont make much differnece still. (Nor will having an ordinary coach make difference to the Aussies success.) It's mainly down to the players and the onfield moves and strategies by the captain. Imran has been saying this about coaching for a long time and I use to wrongly think he said it only when miandad was pak coach. How wrong I was. 
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#2
17th April 2005, 22:00
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What Imran is saying on this is similar to what Asif Iqbal and many pundits think too. I have been convinced by Imran's logic for some time now.
Anyway I said before on the other thread: Quote:
I am not against Bob Woolmer or any coach. Far from that I think Bob is doing a good job and has made a difference to the players attitude and other aspects of the game. This has obviously helped in contributing in the team's positive results and improvements under him. Bob can hopefully HELP improve this Pak side more and make them more professional, fit , better fielders etc. One thing for sure he should continue as coach and be given a fair chance.
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#3
17th April 2005, 22:04
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well BW has made a difference. Fielding has improved and the plans against each batsman - I think BW comes up with them, not Inzi. I think coach does contribute to the team's success and Imran has it wrong.
For me, coach and captain are both interconnected. It is coach who usually comes up with the plans (thats his job) and captain as to execute it. But if the planA and plan B also don't work, it is the captain's duty to come up with something creative. This is where Inzi lacks.
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#4
17th April 2005, 22:07
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Quote:
i think imran khan played cricket in era when the importance of coach was minimun that why other likes of asif iqbal think to the same way
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#5
17th April 2005, 22:07
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Offcourse Bob has HELPED make a difference and does set strategies off the field. However, the coach can NOT WIN or lose the match for a team. Imran said if a team loses one match dosent mean the coach is poor and become a bad coach and if they win dosent make the coach necessarily a great coach.
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#6
17th April 2005, 22:11
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Maybe it is because of the difference in era and Imran may not have it all correct but I most definitley agree with the part he says that the coach can not win or lose. Even if coach has made a lot of difference then this can not be possible without having a talented commited bunch of players who are willing to learn.
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#7
18th April 2005, 11:55
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When things are going bad, the coach has to take the blame for the teams failings along with the captain, he might even lose his job over a couple of lost series' (Miandad). So when the team wins, the coach has to be given some credit for the teams success.
The players have to perform on the field but it is the coach's job to prepare the players so that they can perform to the best of their abilities. What would Imran Khan say about Sri Lanka's success in the 1996 World Cup? Obviously, the players performed but the coach's role was also vital in preparing the players in the best way possible.
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#8
18th April 2005, 11:59
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Saudi Arabia employed the best coach for the last world cup tournament. He was by far the highest paid and yet the Saudi's were beaten 8-0 in their very first game.
No coach can perform miracles. No coach can make 11 monkeys become the greatest cricket side ever. No coach will make Argarkar a 'fast bowler'
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#9
18th April 2005, 12:11
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Yes it is agreed that no coach can perform miracles but if you have say 5 evenly matched teams in terms of players, the coach might be the difference between which one becomes the best.
With the exception of Australia, most other test teams can have competitive series but it might be the case that the team with the best coach performs the best. If you look at New Zealand, they are by no means the most talented team in the world but they enjoyed a fair amount of success in odi's over a period of 1-2 years before they came up against Australia, the coach has to take at least some credit for this success.
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#11
18th April 2005, 12:57
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a debatable issue is under discussion here & frankly speaking, i can't go neither side. i am not sure about this issue but since JK's opinion is seems to be in minority so let me start it by taking his side.
well some credit has to be given to the coach for the success. coaches do work off the field but that work have a lot to do with on field activities & have an influence on the results. for example fitness, fielding, plans/strategies etc. nowadays coahces used to make strategies according to the strength & weakness of his team & the opposition. they come up with different plans for different players. if a player is doing something wrong on the field, a coach can identify the problem & sort that out off the field with the player like happened with Inzi when Miandad found out that Inzi needed to bat a bit more open chested & then Inzi played the most crucial inning of his life & win the Test match against BD (if you remember correctly). although Inzi played that inning but Miandad had some influence there, don't you think so??? they can send 12th man to convey their point to the captain & have the luxury to see the match from out side (which i believe is a huge plus point). he can also pin point few weaknesses of the currently batting batsman which (may be) a captain won't be able to find out that easily. therefore some credit has to go to the coach asthe role of coaches have been increased nowadays in cricket. Aneel
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#12
18th April 2005, 13:03
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In Cricket the coach's role is bigger than any other sport.
In ODI cricket if you dont come to the table with a plan, and prepared for the opposition you are going to get eaten alive by the best in the business. Having players that can stick to the plan and perform according to it is another story ie. why Saudi Arabia gets walloped in the world cup.
__________________
"The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the martyr"
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#13
18th April 2005, 13:43
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I think Imran is right.
But the coach job is to train the bowler check the player fitness gives the team the right commination talk to them. tell them the basic and tell then what they can improve...... His job is not to win the matches, Yes he is a part of the team, he has to make strategies but its the team that performs
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#14
18th April 2005, 15:27
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Imran may be generally correct but in Pakistan's case he is dead wrong!
Inzi is great as a leader as he is a very calm and straighforward guy at the top and those qualities do make him stand out among the rest of the relatively young team. However he does not have the most astute and strategic cricketing mind by any means. So with Inzi as the captain, the role of a strategic and innovative person as the coach is a very important one in Pakistan team. Someone who can help develop a complete gameplan and put things down which Inzi and the rest of the team can then implement on the field.
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#15
18th April 2005, 16:54
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I agree with Zorawar. Imran speaks with his own style in mind where Intikhab was a nonentity.
A coach has a very important role while Inzi is in charge. With YK it might be not as significant but still an important role behind the scenes.
__________________
The bug at the beach reported a possible breach at the beach. Come armed with shoes and a hunting crop.
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#17
18th April 2005, 17:37
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Imran is talking from the perspective when cricket was not played very prodessionally anywhere in the world. The concept of a coach in cricket is quite foreign to him and actually most Pakistani ex-cricketers.
Pakistan, in their old glory days, had a lot of educated and good strategic thinkers in the team as captains and players. The current lot of players hardly contain any players with much educational background. This creates a huge void, which can only be filled somewhat through thorough and professional coaching. In today's cricket where every team analyzes the opposing teams and players' qualities to the minutest detail, it is absolutely essential to have the best analysis coaches and accompanying experts to do the same task for yourself. So in the end, he doesn't know what he is talking about in this regards!
__________________
___________________ Every cricket ball should be played on its merit. If only it was easy to play every ball on its merit.
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#19
18th April 2005, 21:15
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Shame to see some pakistanis still have colonial induced inferiority complex which extends to them not being able to read English.
Oh yes sir mister Woolmer thank you for patronising us with your presence. If you get up, dust down your brown noses and read what Imran said you may understand (try reading it twice or getting an adult to read it for you)
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#20
18th April 2005, 21:20
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Quote:
 ?
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#21
18th April 2005, 21:20
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duplicate...
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#22
18th April 2005, 21:47
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It is funny how our 'supercoach' on his 'super salary' doesn't believe in superstars.
It also ill-behoves someone to go around bragging after mugging the old granny that is Indian cricket team right now and that when she was in her pyjamas one day cricket. Shoaib Akhtar went to India in 1999 and WON a TEST SERIES (real cricket) and OUTSHONE Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis (real supperstars nay ALL TIME LEGENDS) I think Woolmer should pipe down. Bangladesh can beat this current Indian team. Drawing a Test series against them is no big deal. Empty vessels make most noise. We the real supporters haven't forgotten how his 'team' failed to support the work of Shoaib in Australia who frequently had the Worlds Best Team Ever reeling only for golden boys Jam tomorrrow Sami or popeye Razzaq to let them off the hook.
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#23
18th April 2005, 21:49
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Quote:
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#24
18th April 2005, 21:50
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Quote:
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#25
18th April 2005, 21:58
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Not only is the role of a coach winning a match is msunderstood but also what I said. Maybe I didnt explain clearly before. I'll try and explain and start from Bob Woolmer.
Bob Woolmer is a top class coach if not great. He has done fantastic jobs for Warwickshire and Saffies in the past and now is doing a very good job for Pakistan. He has HELPED improve Pakistan by making them work more hard on their fitness, attitude, professionalism, fielding, running, catching etc. More over he has great man mangment skills and made the team a TEAM (unit) by setting up a great team spirit and morale. Pakistan has ceartainly improved TO some extent if not significantly more under Bob. Having said that and this is what people dont understand: BOB has ONLY done his job in HELPING the team and players in what should be expected of professionals. Bob is one of the best in HELPING to acheive the high standards that we expect from professionals. Again let me make it Bob has HELPED improve the team on technical aspects mentioned above. HE has only HELPED and NOT actually gone out there in the middle and performed. Sure he has made an impact but it's still down to the players in going out their and applying and performing under pressure. More importantly you can only stretch players a little more than there TALENT and Potential. IF the players are average eg, From Zimbabwe, Bangladesh to my nephew's school team, then it dosent matter if it's John Buchanan or Bob Woolmer or even lala or Humpty Dumpty himself the results wont be too different and still the same. Similalrly you can get the grandmother of my nextdoor neighbour to coach the Aussies and they will still annihliate teams. Sure, the times have changed from the days of Imran Khan with more technology and technical stuff today. However, the facts and basics of cricket remain the same and Imran is not stupid and does know about the changes. Finally, my title to this thread maybe misleading as what my main point is NO COACH can win or lose a test series or ODI for a team. They do have some impact but that is SOME.
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#26
18th April 2005, 22:00
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An example is if John Buchanan becomes Banglas coach and Banglas still lose all the time then does that then make Buchnan a crap no good coach? Can he become from a excellent coach who according to some made Aussies win all the time to a crap rubb1sh coach just by changing teams???
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#27
18th April 2005, 22:02
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Also, like to clear another thing: Imran did not say a coach does not contribute a single bit to a team's success or results. He didnt say anything like that but just said the coach's IMPACT is minimal and not as great as people nowadays make it out to be.
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#28
18th April 2005, 22:06
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Quote:
Point taken but if Imran Khan/Steve Waugh/Chappell/Taylor captain Bangladesh and the Bagalis continue to lose...would that make them bad captains? You are right that BW is only doing his job and that is exactly what we want him to do!
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#29
18th April 2005, 22:19
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MArooned bhai the point you made above is very fair and valid too.
One thing we all or most agree is that Bob is doing a very good job and long may it continue. He has helped improve the team and set up a new culture and let's hope he will get the backing and support he deserves. He deserves a good run as coach and hopefully people will get behind him and the team. I hope he is left alone to do his job by the bureaucrats, media, admins and fans etc unlike previous coaches. The support, communication and co-operation of all these and the players are very important. Chacha Bob I salute him for his hard work for Pakistan and long may it continue.
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