Nightclub opening in Lahore

[suhaib]

read this, it says PC want to open a nightclub for tourists

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...4-2007_pg13_12

[Saj]

Would this be the first night club in Lahore?

[Munda Pakistani]

So what do PP'ers think? Should the government allow it? Is it a good thing to have?

[Aurangzeb]

aren't there already loads of clubs in lahore and karachi? why is this so shocking?...i would go check it out, but i hear clubbing in pakistan is nothing more than a sausage party...

[has 786]

Originally Posted by suhaib read this, it says PC want to open a nightclub for tourists http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...4-2007_pg13_12

We have tourists? As in, the dance-all-night clubbing type?

[the Great Khan]

So what do PP'ers think? Should the government allow it? Is it a good thing to have?

no..and you dont want to hear what the rest of my opinion is..all ill say is im not surprised considering the direction our country is taking..

[Munda Pakistani]

Originally Posted by the Great Khan no..and you dont want to hear what the rest of my opinion is..all ill say is im not surprised considering the direction our country is taking..

Neither am I. The speed of Pakistan's moral decadence is alarming. No wonder Israr Ahmed's so depressed these days.

[Zechariah]

Tourists will go there, but if normal Pakistanis start to go there then those people themselves are the problem - they should know thier limits.

[Rana]

Pakistan starting to step on indian footprints!

[The Blazer]

Cool.

[pakistani pride]

Would be great !

[Salman]

This is only the begining , i been hearing about a legal alcohol store somewhere in Clifton, Karachi, from what relatives have been telling me, you drive past the store an all you see is groups of guys and girls getting drunk... a very sad state of affairs..

[the Great Khan]

well all i can say is sooner or later the dam will burst..there are many people who are totally against this sort of behaviour both liberal and conservatives..but the problem with the liberals is they are dicredited as being secular atheists with an anti islamic agenda and the right conservatives are tainted by their past misdemeanors (JI etc)..those of us in the middle are having to take sides between an atheistic elite and right conservatism..the centre ground no longer exists..since most pakistanis abhor kunjar behaviour and believe in Allah even if they arent practicing it swells the numbers on the right...this is musharrefs legacy that has polarised the nation!

[suhaib]

Originally Posted by Munda Pakistani So what do PP'ers think? Should the government allow it? Is it a good thing to have?

well goverment dnt have any rights to stop it.

everyone has there own mind and should go where they want, not where others tell them to, some people are just mentaliy ill and think they can control everyone.

not that i will be using it, but im all for freedom.

[suhaib]

Originally Posted by Rana Pakistan starting to step on indian footprints!

so indians are the ones who invented nightclubs and the only country to have nightclubs

[the true passionist]

My primary concern is that the Pakistani community is becoming very polarized lately especially since 9/11.

On one side extremism and hatred against West has sky rocketed and on the other side there is an increasing number of people who cannot be distinguished from westerners(if the don't speak English ).

Such polarization is not very good for any society which usually results in a clash and lack of tolerance for the other. I cann't think of much that could be done to bridge this ever-increasing gap.

The only thing most appropriate is the spread of Education along with increased awareness of Islamic values with logical reasoning. In Pakistan many people take Islam for granted and never try to understand the underlying significance of it's teachings which results in lack of understanding and wrong interpretation leading people to the two extremes.

[12thMan]

is this only for tourists? a restaraunt won't be able to surive that well if they counted on the 20-30 of them to all come every night. Does this also include desi's with foreign passports as they are tourists ( a passport says if you are tourist or not). can they bring their friends with them without passport? Is there a area in Lahore just for tourist as there might be in Islamabad (like the foreign conclave or whatever they call it).

Now the big question:
How much security will be there and required to make sure nothing happens there and will the tourists go when security is very high. Can the hotel take that risk?

[the true passionist]

Don't worry guys, we will have the veiled ladies with sultan rahi's gandasas take over such a night club and turn it to a madrasa. The best way to spread Islam.

[Jayed]

disgusted to call pak 'islamic republic'

[aliff]

what a shame.... If you claim, label yourself as 'Islamic Republic', then be a proper Islamic Republic and follow the Islamic Law. Don't be a country which claims itself to follow Islamic Law and yet does not follow most Islamic Laws, esp. things like not giving women proper rights. Sadly, not a single country today follows Islamic Law, be it Pakistan, Iran or Saudi Arabia.. each one of them follows their own Law and yet labels itself as Islamic country.

[mos123]

thats not fear

[b0wld]

well in lahore the nightclub/stripjoint/beerbar are all stacked in one place and that is a FARM HOUSE.

[Wazeeri]

well goverment dnt have any rights to stop it. everyone has there own mind and should go where they want, not where others tell them to, some people are just mentaliy ill and think they can control everyone.

Actually the government does have a right to tell them what to do and thats why they are seeking the permission. Any actions of any individuals which affect the wider community should be subject to a process of approval by the authorities.

This night club will have an adverse effect on our society,
It is against Islam
It has no place in Pakistan.

[easy_like_sunday]

the pearl continental in bhurban (near murri ) has a night club but only for couples

[swaziboy]

Originally Posted by the true passionist My primary concern is that the Pakistani community is becoming very polarized lately especially since 9/11. On one side extremism and hatred against West has sky rocketed and on the other side there is an increasing number of people who cannot be distinguished from westerners(if the don't speak English ). Such polarization is not very good for any society which usually results in a clash and lack of tolerance for the other. I cann't think of much that could be done to bridge this ever-increasing gap. The only thing most appropriate is the spread of Education along with increased awareness of Islamic values with logical reasoning. In Pakistan many people take Islam for granted and never try to understand the underlying significance of it's teachings which results in lack of understanding and wrong interpretation leading people to the two extremes.

coudlnt agree more with you

[Nakhuda]

Many Pakistanis love nightclubbing but its not part of our culture thus i feel very uncomfortable with this.No,this isn't a holier then thou attitude but have to totally disagree with Pak's new s*cking up to the west philosophy.

[arhamkarim]

hm.......yeah... I am stunned at how openly Pakistani uni students who come to Uk/US to study drink ...they even show off how drunk they get as its something cool.... My understanding is that in pakistan drinking is now just a social thing to show how western/cool u are.....its a shame......

[Boi]

Originally Posted by Salman This is only the begining , i been hearing about a legal alcohol store somewhere in Clifton, Karachi, from what relatives have been telling me, you drive past the store an all you see is groups of guys and girls getting drunk... a very sad state of affairs..

its supposed to be a muslim country

muslims dont drink alcahol

astagfirullah

[Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar]

certainly not my cup of tea. and if the world ran according to my views, I wouldn't be building nightclubs in Lahore - I'd build schools, hospitals, parks, etc.

however, what I do find interesting is the disgust on display here by everyone. I wonder if we'll get similarly strong reactions to acid attacks, panchayat sanctioned gang rapes, domestic violence, abuse of children in madrassas, bonded labour, etc. somehow I doubt it!

but mention alcohol and nightclubs and everyone's disgusted beyond belief. there are other issues apart from clubbing and alcohol too, you know...

or maybe not?

[irfan]

and most of them don't even live in Pakistan but in the 'decadent' West that they seem to despise so much.

[waqar_ahmad]

this is what the government calls enlightened moderation

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by waqar_ahmad this is what the government calls enlightened moderation

that probably will mean not to do what the Lal Masjid people or some in NWFp are doing in name of religion or bomb people of other sect because one thinks they are wrong

[jusarrived]

Does this mean , none of the ppers drink ?

[safehands46]

Its such a mistake, how is one going to regulate the rich paindu. There are going to be mad fights.

[Wazeeri]

however, what I do find interesting is the disgust on display here by everyone. I wonder if we'll get similarly strong reactions to acid attacks, panchayat sanctioned gang rapes, domestic violence, abuse of children in madrassas, bonded labour, etc. somehow I doubt it!

Well you have a very warped sense of assumption. Have a look at the number of threads and the number of pages on each thread on topics you have listed above, this thread isn't even on it's second page.

there are other issues apart from clubbing and alcohol too, you know..

And we discuss each and everyone of them. This forum and most like it have been designed to allow you to discuss more than one subject at a time. Just because there are other more important issues doesn't mean we have to stop discussing this one.

[Nakhuda]

Originally Posted by jusarrived Does this mean , none of the ppers drink ?

Can't speak for anyone else but i've never smoked tobacco,consumed alcahol or entered a nightclub in my life yet love socialising with my buddies.I've my salvation to think about!!!.I walk the middle path where i enjoy my life within what Islam has allowed.

[JammydodgA]

yay! I'm moving to Lahore!!

[the Great Khan]

and most of them don't even live in Pakistan but in the 'decadent' West that they seem to despise so much.

dont worry decadence is coming your way very quickly too and you dont even know it...those that live in the west hold closer to their deen because they know what the other side looks like first hand...but those in Pakistan are doing a bang up job so i say let em...send your daughters to nightclubs and enjoy...then watch society destroy itself..the west can absorb this decadence because its their culture,and they have the institiutions and law and order to deal with the aftermaths..Pakistan has none of this...and will suffer...but enjoy, go down with the ship not with a fiddle but with a pint!!...

[salman24]

No thats sad

[Zinnia]

Well done pakistan!!!
Just when u think the country couldnt get any worse it goes and proves me wrong.
Sooner or later im sure live in releationships are going 2 be the norm there too, along with paternity testing!!

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by 12thMan that probably will mean not to do what the Lal Masjid people or some in NWFp are doing in name of religion or bomb people of other sect because one thinks they are wrong

both extremes are wrong. dont bomb people of other sects, but dont encourage nightclubs either

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by Zinnia Well done pakistan!!! Just when u think the country couldnt get any worse it goes and proves me wrong. Sooner or later im sure live in releationships are going 2 be the norm there too, along with paternity testing!!

Add abortions clinics to that as well. O and someone told me of a big gay party that saw somewhere in islamabad. pak is just not an Islamic Republic anymore is it

[Boys_played_well]

Originally Posted by Zinnia Well done pakistan!!! Just when u think the country couldnt get any worse it goes and proves me wrong. Sooner or later im sure live in releationships are going 2 be the norm there too, along with paternity testing!!

We dont live in 600 A.D anymore. Times are changing. A nightclub is not the end of the world.

[suhaib]

Originally Posted by waqar_ahmad Add abortions clinics to that as well. O and someone told me of a big gay party that saw somewhere in islamabad. pak is just not an Islamic Republic anymore is it

why are you so backwards minded,
what do abortion clinics and gay partys have to do with a nightclub?
and there is no such thing as an islamic republic, not even saudi arabia.
you are acting like someone is going to drag you into the nightclub, if you dnt like it, simply dont use it, why do you have to critize something just cos you wont use it or dnt like it, its because of this same backwards mentality that pakistan and all muslim countrys are like that,

[tahaqureshi]

Originally Posted by suhaib why are you so backwards minded, what do abortion clinics and gay partys have to do with a nightclub? and there is no such thing as an islamic republic, not even saudi arabia. you are acting like someone is going to drag you into the nightclub, if you dnt like it, simply dont use it, why do you have to critize something just cos you wont use it or dnt like it, its because of this same backwards mentality that pakistan and all muslim countrys are like that,

get your mentality a check..maybe he is worried because his and many other countless obedient muslims will have children who will live in a society in pakistan where nightclubs are common place, so you understand the pressure the parents will be in?..they are worrying about the future! stop being so short-sighted and look at the effect this has on the WHOLE society!

[HAFRIDI]

Originally Posted by tahaqureshi get your mentality a check..maybe he is worried because his and many other countless obedient muslims will have children who will live in a society in pakistan where nightclubs are common place, so you understand the pressure the parents will be in?..they are worrying about the future! stop being so short-sighted and look at the effect this has on the WHOLE society!

Hmm i read this and then see your thread, confusing

[tahaqureshi]

Originally Posted by HAFRIDI Hmm i read this and then see your thread, confusing

Well its different in the sense that yes in the greater scheme of things, the future generation will be affected..but at the moment, I'm hearing a lot of people complain about how the CURRENT young adult generation is bowing down to western influences..thats what the thread is about..

plus its a question posed, i dont have a strict opinion yet..im also thinking about this, its a new issue

[lahori]

edit: nevermind.

[Wazeeri]

Why should we be subjected to lewdness and obscenity. Anyone who feels that going forward is opening nightclubs and degeneration of our society needs to have his head examined (Suhaib aimed at you mate).

How is dancing, drinking ...etc going to help us progress? People who lack a good number of brain cells are always the ones who feel that by doing everything the west does we will move forward. Accept all their good traits like professionalism, patience, adherence to rules...etc and we will be as progressive as them, if we at the same time reject all their bad traits we will become better than them.

There are no benefits from nightclubs and a lot of harm so it should not be opened in Pakistan and the Pakistani public as well as the state should stand up send this message to this idiot loud and clear.

[suhaib]

Originally Posted by tahaqureshi get your mentality a check..maybe he is worried because his and many other countless obedient muslims will have children who will live in a society in pakistan where nightclubs are common place, so you understand the pressure the parents will be in?..they are worrying about the future! stop being so short-sighted and look at the effect this has on the WHOLE society!

you post shows even a bigger mentality breakdown then what i was takling about earlier, it might effect society but its big coming from someone who has left pakistan and is allready living in a society like that. weird na.
i have always noticed that its mostly the foreign people here who are against it. if they care so much about the society why are you guys allready living in one, why leave your country for one,
especially seeing that you live in KL where there is a nightclub infront of every mosque, well done mate you are gona bring your kids up in the best society ever. good luck with it.

[suhaib]

Originally Posted by Wazeeri Why should we be subjected to lewdness and obscenity. Anyone who feels that going forward is opening nightclubs and degeneration of our society needs to have his head examined (Suhaib aimed at you mate). How is dancing, drinking ...etc going to help us progress? People who lack a good number of brain cells are always the ones who feel that by doing everything the west does we will move forward. Accept all their good traits like professionalism, patience, adherence to rules...etc and we will be as progressive as them, if we at the same time reject all their bad traits we will become better than them. There are no benefits from nightclubs and a lot of harm so it should not be opened in Pakistan and the Pakistani public as well as the state should stand up send this message to this idiot loud and clear.

i allready thought theres no point in arguing with you as your against everything pakistani, not even sure if your a pakistani, but again like i pointed out above your another one of those fools living out of pak in such societys and complaining without any logic.

firstly no one is talking about progress son, and secondly get it out your mind (i know you lack brain cells but try) that nightclubs are western, the whole world does it not just the west, dancing around a place is nothing about being western, ok.

i dnt see no harm in it, if you think it affects society then first of all you should pack your bags and move back to pakistan and get rid of the mentality breakdown you have,

[Zinnia]

The fact is b-cos we live in a society where this is normal we have witnessed the reprecussions of having such facilities, and plus we have no need to prove we are "modern" and "westernised", where as ppl back home want to show a westernised image and don't realise how detrimental this step is.
And it's not just the fact it is a night club you have to look at the activities that take place there, drinking of alcohol (i dunno if that would be allowed....unless its for the tourists), dancing of men and women together...what does that lead to? drunk men and women, one night stands and illgeitmate children. If your an islamic republic and the whole purpose of your creation was to provide an islamic homeland for the muslim population than things like this shouldn't be happening.
I have been to an asian club when i was 17 and it was full of ppl from back home, wearing ridiculous vulgar clothing and dancing in a very obscene way..........we left after 10mins realising this is not an environment we want to be in, and i think its pathetic for an islamic republic to have this, you cant be an islamic republic with these non-islamic activities, it's supposed to be a country governed by the sharia law, even though hijab isn't mandatory in pak, there should be a basic standard, and having a nightclub is not it!!

[suhaib]

Originally Posted by Zinnia The fact is b-cos we live in a society where this is normal we have witnessed the reprecussions of having such facilities, and plus we have no need to prove we are "modern" and "westernised", where as ppl back home want to show a westernised image and don't realise how detrimental this step is. And it's not just the fact it is a night club you have to look at the activities that take place there, drinking of alcohol (i dunno if that would be allowed....unless its for the tourists), dancing of men and women together...what does that lead to? drunk men and women, one night stands and illgeitmate children. If your an islamic republic and the whole purpose of your creation was to provide an islamic homeland for the muslim population than things like this shouldn't be happening. I have been to an asian club when i was 17 and it was full of ppl from back home, wearing ridiculous vulgar clothing and dancing in a very obscene way..........we left after 10mins realising this is not an environment we want to be in, and i think its pathetic for an islamic republic to have this, you cant be an islamic republic with these non-islamic activities, it's supposed to be a country governed by the sharia law, even though hijab isn't mandatory in pak, there should be a basic standard, and having a nightclub is not it!!

well maybe its your assumption, but pakistanis in the west arnt different to people back home, infact they are much more modern. you have given the example of your nightclub experience yourself, so now are you tell me that you wouldnt mind your children growing up in a society like that but are against it in pakistan, and seriously what affect will one nightclub actully have on a whole city, it would surly bring in alot more tourism in pak.

and no pakistan was never to have the sharia law or be an islamic republic, it was always supposed to be a modern secular state what jinnah wanted to make.

[12thMan]

it's supposed to be a country governed by the sharia law

no it is not. It is supposed to be a country where muslims are not ruled and opressed by another majority religion and where muslims and other religions can practice their religion freely

[Wazeeri]

not even sure if your a pakistani, but again like i pointed out above your another one of those fools living out of pak in such societys and complaining without any logic.

I think I have made my post clear and backed it up with valid points. Your posts are however rants. Hopefully Inshallah one day you will be able to construct a few sound sentences together and make an intelligent point.

firstly no one is talking about progress son, and secondly get it out your mind (i know you lack brain cells but try) that nightclubs are western, the whole world does it not just the west, dancing around a place is nothing about being western, ok.

What we know as nightclubs started off in America in the early 30's after a ban on such venues was lifted. It was an american concept which got exported to many parts of the world so yes it is western. If the whole world starts wearing salwar kameez all of a sudden it wouldn't mean that the dress didn't originate in Pakistan.

i dnt see no harm in it, if you think it affects society then first of all you should pack your bags and move back to pakistan and get rid of the mentality breakdown you have,

First of all, If you can't find a proper term don't make one up.

2ndally I have seen first hand the results of the night club culture. The teen generation is fast deteriorating into animals, in London where the night club culture is at it's peak. Why should we introduce something like that in Pakistan. It is against our culture and our religion. Pakistani youth have better things to spend their time in.

[suhaib]

I think I have made my post clear and backed it up with valid points. Your posts are however rants. Hopefully Inshallah one day you will be able to construct a few sound sentences together and make an intelligent point.

ok mr. genius, we all know you have intellectual powers, please show us how to put sentences togeher, there is no one better then you to learn from

What we know as nightclubs started off in America in the early 30's after a ban on such venues was lifted. It was an american concept which got exported to many parts of the world so yes it is western. If the whole world starts wearing salwar kameez all of a sudden it wouldn't mean that the dress didn't originate in Pakistan.

just cos someone does something first doesnt mean they own it, if you used some your intellectual powers what you keep trying to show us you have, maybe you would know that america was also the only developed country then.

First of all, If you can't find a proper term don't make one up. 2ndally I have seen first hand the results of the night club culture. The teen generation is fast deteriorating into animals, in London where the night club culture is at it's peak. Why should we introduce something like that in Pakistan. It is against our culture and our religion. Pakistani youth have better things to spend their time in.

ok genius please teach me proper terms, you seem to have the oxford dictionary built in to your head.

and again, like i repeated earlier, typical backwards mentality, you love to live in such societys but pakistan does it you go against it. if you are so against it then like i have said, why live in societys like that, pack your bags and go back.

[Wazeeri]

Originally Posted by suhaib just cos someone does something first doesnt mean they own it, if you used some your intellectual powers what you keep trying to show us you have, maybe you would know that america was also the only developed country then.

Are you serious? Firstly what makes you think America was the only developed country in the world at that time?

I hope you realise that it is because of statements like the above that you are considered a joke.

and lets say that your bizarre history is indeed correct, can you tell us why exactly a lewd idea such as a nightclub requires a country to be developed? You need a dance floor and a band and for it to be night time.

ok genius please teach me proper terms, you seem to have the oxford dictionary built in to your head.

Forget about terms, how about you spend some time studying economics, history, politics, islam.....etc. Actually learn anything and come back.

and again, like i repeated earlier, typical backwards mentality,

Didn't you just say that this topic was not about progress?
If that is the case than why are you talking about backward mentalities? What is so progressive and forward about nightclubs?

Tourism? thats the answer you gave in your last post?
You want people to come to Pakistan for their night clubs?
Like Ibiza?

you love to live in such societys but pakistan does it you go against it. if you are so against it then like i have said, why live in societys like that, pack your bags and go back.

No I don't love to live in such a society. I am here because this country provides me with a job and security. Just because this country has some benefits and qualities doesn't mean I have to accept it's short comings. and It definitely doesn't mean that I would recommend it for Pakistan.

[Zinnia]

Originally Posted by suhaib well maybe its your assumption, but pakistanis in the west arnt different to people back home, infact they are much more modern. you have given the example of your nightclub experience yourself, so now are you tell me that you wouldnt mind your children growing up in a society like that but are against it in pakistan, and seriously what affect will one nightclub actully have on a whole city, it would surly bring in alot more tourism in pak. and no pakistan was never to have the sharia law or be an islamic republic, it was always supposed to be a modern secular state what jinnah wanted to make.

Look, the fact is the aftermatch of opening one such nightclub is not good, once the ball is rolling many more will open up, its a new thing in pak, many ppl will wanna go and since its something "foreign" many ppl will wanna go there and behave like that and end of the day its going to induce many social problems that we face in the west here.
It is acceptable in the UK bcause this is not an islamic republic!!
And about my kids growing up in a society like this, well first of all i dont even know if i would want 2 bring up my kids here, but end of the day you have to see the bad sideeffects this will have in the country....all the things which seperate us from the non-muslims will eventyally dissapear.

[suhaib]

Are you serious? Firstly what makes you think America was the only developed country in the world at that time?

well i was answering your question to america being the only country to have nightclubs which was riddiculus itself.

I hope you realise that it is because of statements like the above that you are considered a joke.

if im consider a joke by a joker than that doesnt matter,
dnt worry your the genius with the intellectual powers, everyone is wrong expect for you, you provide ground breaking infromation here everyday, please keep it up mr. einstein.

Didn't you just say that this topic was not about progress? If that is the case than why are you talking about backward mentalities? What is so progressive and forward about nightclubs?

and who is talking about progress?
you seem to have a knot tied in your brain, i guess thats what confuses you.
thats not good mr.genius,especially if you want to be einstein

You want people to come to Pakistan for their night clubs? Like Ibiza?

and who is saying that people should just come to pakistan just for nightclubs?
and opening one night club will actully turn your country into ibiza, wow genius your proving how clever you are with every post.

No I don't love to live in such a society. I am here because this country provides me with a job and security. Just because this country has some benefits and qualities doesn't mean I have to accept it's short comings. and It definitely doesn't mean that I would recommend it for Pakistan.

ok so just for your job you wont care about your children?
again an illogical point you ahve made and failed to answer the question again.
like i have said before, if your are against such societys why are you living in them, have a job is not a good excuss.
if you are against them then stay away from them, simple as that.

[suhaib]

Originally Posted by Zinnia Look, the fact is the aftermatch of opening one such nightclub is not good, once the ball is rolling many more will open up, its a new thing in pak, many ppl will wanna go and since its something "foreign" many ppl will wanna go there and behave like that and end of the day its going to induce many social problems that we face in the west here. It is acceptable in the UK bcause this is not an islamic republic!! And about my kids growing up in a society like this, well first of all i dont even know if i would want 2 bring up my kids here, but end of the day you have to see the bad sideeffects this will have in the country....all the things which seperate us from the non-muslims will eventyally dissapear.

well how much nightclubs can actully open in pakistan, look at how open dubai is, but there clubs are hardly seen, drinking is hardly seen.
and its not a new thing at all, partys like this have been happening at farmhouses all along.

[irfan]

weren't there clubs in Pakistan during the 70s before Zia took power?

[irfan]

Karachi's 'glorious' past:

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...-10-2002_pg3_7

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by suhaib why are you so backwards minded, what do abortion clinics and gay partys have to do with a nightclub? and there is no such thing as an islamic republic, not even saudi arabia. you are acting like someone is going to drag you into the nightclub, if you dnt like it, simply dont use it, why do you have to critize something just cos you wont use it or dnt like it, its because of this same backwards mentality that pakistan and all muslim countrys are like that,

what brilliant logic, what brilliant arguments.

do u even know what u r talking about. u mean to say that its ok to have nightclubs coz whoever wants to go can go, adn whoever does not want to go shouldnt go. is that ur logic.

well then, i think we should have brothels too, adn also gambling houses and casinos. whoever wants to go can go. u r just pathetic.

and if Saudi Arabia isnt truely islamic, does that mean that all muslims should stop parcticiign Islam to the fullest? If the king of a country doesnt pray 5 times aday, should all the muslims of tha tcountry also stop praying 5 times a day?

u should know the difference between backward minded and being correct. poeple like u just blindly follow stereotypes set be the west coz u think u r open minded and modern. put a sock in it boy and take a walk.

[suhaib]

Originally Posted by waqar_ahmad do u even know what u r talking about. u mean to say that its ok to have nightclubs coz whoever wants to go can go, adn whoever does not want to go shouldnt go. is that ur logic. well then, i think we should have brothels too, adn also gambling houses and casinos. whoever wants to go can go. u r just pathetic. u should know the difference between backward minded and being correct. poeple like u just blindly follow stereotypes set be the west coz u think u r open minded and modern. put a sock in it boy and take a walk.

its logicalal, if you want to go then go if you dnt then dnt, just cos you wont be using something why do you have to go against it, that is what shows your backwards mentality.

and btw maybe you are new to pakistan but brothels and gambling houses allready exist all over pakistan, even in villages, maybe you should come pakistan before talking about it shows that your pathetic not me.
your just another one sitting in america and enjoying a western lifestyle, you telling me that i follow stereotypes set by the west is just riddiculus, and you saying pakistan shouldnt do something cos you wont be using it is even more riddiculus

[suhaib]

Originally Posted by irfan weren't there clubs in Pakistan during the 70s before Zia took power?

yes there wer plenty, like i said before pakistan was made to be a secular state, economy was flourishing till these maullas took over

[jusarrived]

thats fine , but its also true a lot of people would want to do it.........am not suggesting that people need to drink ,smoke or party....but its about personal choises isnt it ? you can read your books or watch TV in your free time , but people who want to go clubbing/part should be free to do it.....


Personally I think they are better off doing this , than watching bollywood movies!

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by suhaib its logicalal, if you want to go then go if you dnt then dnt, just cos you wont be using something why do you have to go against it, that is what shows your backwards mentality. and btw maybe you are new to pakistan but brothels and gambling houses allready exist all over pakistan, even in villages, maybe you should come pakistan before talking about it shows that your pathetic not me. your just another one sitting in america and enjoying a western lifestyle, you telling me that i follow stereotypes set by the west is just riddiculus, and you saying pakistan shouldnt do something cos you wont be using it is even more riddiculus

dude, i have lived in pak for most of my life, so stop telling me how pak is. and u said there are brothels ans gambling houses in pak. i know that. so r u trying to say that it is ok to have brothels and gamblign houses as well. just answer this question for me.

[suhaib]

Originally Posted by waqar_ahmad dude, i have lived in pak for most of my life, so stop telling me how pak is. and u said there are brothels ans gambling houses in pak. i know that. so r u trying to say that it is ok to have brothels and gamblign houses as well. just answer this question for me.

no its not ok to have brothels but that is diferent, you comparing an apple with an organge, we are talking about nightclubs not brothels

[the Great Khan]

Actually Pakistan was made to be a progressive Islamic democracy..read allama iqbals book political thought in islam...and also read some of his poems and articles...Jinnah was just a major cog in the wheel of the pakistan movement...If Pakistan was to be a secular state why separate on the basis of religion? doesnt really make sense since India is a secular state..the basis for Pakistan was so that Muslims could govern ourselves using our own laws rooted in Islam not english common law, and create a modern Islamic country based on the principles of past multi ethnic Muslim states like the first in madina and al-andalus etc...if you want to argue about this point open another thread and we will conintue the discussion there...

to the point about Nightclubs..look even westerners agree they are a scourge..they encourage underage sex,drinking, which lead to illegitimate children,STD's,anti social behaviour you name it...So lets analyse it the civlised Islamic way...first question what benefits would it bring? then compare it to the negatives...

benefits: tourists? taxes? a few jobs?
negatives: anti social behaviour,lewdness, illegitimate sexual activity, potential for the spread of STD's, un wanted pregnancies, honour killings??(in Pak you cant discount this), criminal activity like prostitution, drug pushing(rememebr the Madchester days?), immoral behaviour, societal pressures.

so the negatives outweigh the benefits and thus it is a bad idea...and finally how many of us would like our daughters to be spending time in places like this?

[the Great Khan]

but its about personal choises isnt it ?

in islam if personal choices start affecting the wider society then they are unacceptable..hence this is a bad idea and its unislamic..we are not a secular nation and thus our principles arre different..hence the negative reactions to such hair brained schemes..

[suhaib]

Originally Posted by the Great Khan Actually Pakistan was made to be a progressive Islamic democracy..read allama iqbals book political thought in islam...and also read some of his poems and articles...Jinnah was just a major cog in the wheel of the pakistan movement...If Pakistan was to be a secular state why separate on the basis of religion? doesnt really make sense since India is a secular state..the basis for Pakistan was so that Muslims could govern ourselves using our own laws rooted in Islam not english common law, and create a modern Islamic country based on the principles of past multi ethnic Muslim states like the first in madina and al-andalus etc...if you want to argue about this point open another thread and we will conintue the discussion there... to the point about Nightclubs..look even westerners agree they are a scourge..they encourage underage sex,drinking, which lead to illegitimate children,STD's,anti social behaviour you name it...So lets analyse it the civlised Islamic way...first question what benefits would it bring? then compare it to the negatives... benefits: tourists? taxes? a few jobs? negatives: anti social behaviour,lewdness, illegitimate sexual activity, potential for the spread of STD's, un wanted pregnancies, honour killings??(in Pak you cant discount this), criminal activity like prostitution, drug pushing(rememebr the Madchester days?), immoral behaviour, societal pressures. so the negatives outweigh the benefits and thus it is a bad idea...and finally how many of us would like our daughters to be spending time in places like this?

actully pakistan was not made to be an islamic country, jinnah had feared that the hindus would have tortured the muslims like germans did to the jews, it was just a place made to keep muslims face as they would have always been in danger from hindus in india. jinnah wanted it to be a secular and free country for people of all religons to practice there religon freely, anyway as you say its another discussion, so i wouldnt go deep and i think its allready been discussed on this forum before.

and on nightclubs you cant actully compare pakistan to london or usa, even if nightclubs are legized pakistan will never be able to compete with the west in that department, never ever. so it will be more logical to compare with malaysia, as if pakistan does get nightclubs it will will probably be like what malaysia has.
and if it is legized i dnt see no big effect on the youth cos this has been happening in lahore since ages there are underground partys everyday, nearly every student has access to it,

[Zechariah]

Pakistan is an Islamic country and Islam gives rights to minorities, so there should be no problem whatsoever in that regard.

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by suhaib no its not ok to have brothels but that is diferent, you comparing an apple with an organge, we are talking about nightclubs not brothels

by this compariosn, im proving the flaw in ur argument that even if something is wrong, it should be allowed in a society and those who dont want to use it coz its wrong (or according to u they are narrow minded) they should just stay away from it. and instead of stopping such things from springing up in the society in the first place, we should wait and see if people stay away form it or not.

[tahaqureshi]

Originally Posted by suhaib you post shows even a bigger mentality breakdown then what i was takling about earlier, it might effect society but its big coming from someone who has left pakistan and is allready living in a society like that. weird na. i have always noticed that its mostly the foreign people here who are against it. if they care so much about the society why are you guys allready living in one, why leave your country for one, especially seeing that you live in KL where there is a nightclub infront of every mosque, well done mate you are gona bring your kids up in the best society ever. good luck with it.

You want to shut your mouth before you look like an even bigger idiot. I dont live here by choice, it is my parents choice that they moved out of Pakistan not mine! I am under THEIR rules until I leave for uni so shut the crap about living outside. And let me tell you one thing:

THERE ISN'T A NIGHTCLUB INFRONT OF EVERY MOSQUE HERE AND IT SURE HELL HAS MORE ISLAMIC LITERACY THAN PEOPLE LIKE YOU.
I've lived here for 10 years so dont you dare tutor me in what KL is. Muslims here ARE NOT ALLOWED into nightclubs and given alcohol. You need solid ID.

Plus that is BESIDES the point I made. I was talking about what waqar might be worrying about when you called him backward. You are the one who's backward.

[pakistani_banda]

Originally Posted by suhaib you post shows even a bigger mentality breakdown then what i was takling about earlier, it might effect society but its big coming from someone who has left pakistan and is allready living in a society like that. weird na. i have always noticed that its mostly the foreign people here who are against it. if they care so much about the society why are you guys allready living in one, why leave your country for one, especially seeing that you live in KL where there is a nightclub infront of every mosque, well done mate you are gona bring your kids up in the best society ever. good luck with it.

suhaib u r in no position to say anything about malaysia. wat u r saying is completely baseless false accusations. im not saying that there no night clubs in malaysia , there but not in the locations which u have said, ie infront of the mosques. i am sure of this because i have lived in malaysia for 8 years and know more than u . u should really get ur facts straightened out before u say something like that , and do not give me an answer that u heard it from a friend even if u did, u r in no position to say something like this.

ur asking y foreign people r against this stuff. this is because we have seen it ,and we have seen the undesirable effects of these night clubs and do not want our pakistani population to get corrupted by it.

i say again just keep ur mouth shut about the stuff u dont know.

[Wazeeri]

Originally Posted by suhaib well i was answering your question to america being the only country to have nightclubs which was riddiculus itself.

Read up on the history of nightclubs as we know them now. It is a western concept and it has been exported to all other countries. You cannot backtrack on your statement now. You have made a fool out of yourself and you have to live with it.

if im consider a joke by a joker than that doesnt matter,

Actually if you read most people’s comments you will realise that it isn’t only this joker that considers you a joke.

and who is talking about progress?

Unless you don’t know what a “backward mentality” means, it is you who is talking about progress.

and who is saying that people should just come to pakistan just for nightclubs? and opening one night club will actully turn your country into ibiza,

Are you then suggesting that this one nightclub will be able to lure a significant amount of tourists to the country to justify it’s existence? If not than you are either suggesting that Pakistan should build more nightclubs or the answer to my earlier question regarding the benefits of the nightclub are other than tourist attractions,
So what is it?

ok so just for your job you wont care about your children?

No it is about priorities. There is no perfect country in the world. I would rather have my children growing up in a society where they are at risk of going to a nightclub than one where they can get abducted, killed, robbed or left unemployed. I have the power to teach my children about the dangers of this culture but in Pakistan I wouldn’t necessarily be able to protect them from the dangers there without job security and on a low income.
As I wouldn’t suggest that sectarianism, culture of bribery, poor policing…etc would be a good idea for Brittain (a country where I live and which I love) I wouldn’t suggest that nightclubs, fornication, adultery, disregard for elders is a good idea for Pakistan ( a country where I was born and love dearly).


Please also understand that I am not debating with you because you are making valid arguable points. I am debating with you because I can see that you are incapable of putting sentences together and you cannot understand anyone other than yourself. I am trying to help you develop these vital social skills by humouring you. So really this is a bit of charity work for me.

[suhaib]

Originally Posted by pakistani_banda suhaib u r in no position to say anything about malaysia. wat u r saying is completely baseless false accusations. im not saying that there no night clubs in malaysia , there but not in the locations which u have said, ie infront of the mosques. i am sure of this because i have lived in malaysia for 8 years and know more than u . u should really get ur facts straightened out before u say something like that , and do not give me an answer that u heard it from a friend even if u did, u r in no position to say something like this. ur asking y foreign people r against this stuff. this is because we have seen it ,and we have seen the undesirable effects of these night clubs and do not want our pakistani population to get corrupted by it. i say again just keep ur mouth shut about the stuff u dont know.

dude i had seen pictures myself of them infront of mosques, there were articles on it all over the place, i dnt care if you had lived there cos pictures dnt lie.
and you have just hit the nail on its head, so foriegn people are against it, seen its effects yet still continue to live in such societys. well it say alot itself.

[suhaib]

Read up on the history of nightclubs as we know them now. It is a western concept and it has been exported to all other countries. You cannot backtrack on your statement now. You have made a fool out of yourself and you have to live with it.

again i was answering your idiotic comment that america was the only country in 1930s to have a nightclub, now you are trying to change that to western. so i havnt made a fool outof myself you have.

Are you then suggesting that this one nightclub will be able to lure a significant amount of tourists to the country to justify it’s existence? If not than you are either suggesting that Pakistan should build more nightclubs or the answer to my earlier question regarding the benefits of the nightclub are other than tourist attractions, So what is it?

and, if it builds more does it become ibiza?
do you even know what ibiza is or are you just making an assumption again.
are you trying to tell me that every country that has a nightclub is an ibiza.

No it is about priorities. There is no perfect country in the world. I would rather have my children growing up in a society where they are at risk of going to a nightclub than one where they can get abducted, killed, robbed or left unemployed. I have the power to teach my children about the dangers of this culture but in Pakistan I wouldn’t necessarily be able to protect them from the dangers there without job security and on a low income. As I wouldn’t suggest that sectarianism, culture of bribery, poor policing…etc would be a good idea for Brittain (a country where I live and which I love) I wouldn’t suggest that nightclubs, fornication, adultery, disregard for elders is a good idea for Pakistan ( a country where I was born and love dearly).

so now you are going to bring in robbories and briberys, well idiot UK has alot more robberys then pakistan, you just killed your own argument with that.
anyway like i said before if you are allready living in such a society, you have no right to tell pakistan what to do, untill you move there,

Please also understand that I am not debating with you because you are making valid arguable points. I am debating with you because I can see that you are incapable of putting sentences together and you cannot understand anyone other than yourself. I am trying to help you develop these vital social skills by humouring you. So really this is a bit of charity work for me.

ok mr. einstein, we know about your intellectual powers but no need to show off. i think you should just open a new thread to teach us about putting sentences togeher as you do it so well, it will be the biggest charity work you do.

[Ntini]

isn't pakistan already full of drug abuse?
what would a little alcohol do then?

no im not agreeing with this move but I think there alot of other social problems within the country that they should deal with before you all start bad-mouthing the opening of a nightclub. Also to my knowledge there are already forms of niteclubs in pakistan (not sure which parts) but the only regulation is that you have a partner of the opposite sex with you. Correct me if i'm wrong.

[waqar_ahmad]

suhaib, u have really got to stop acting like a burger, so called liberal and moderm guy who think everything being practiced in the west in a symbol of progress. And if u think nightclubs are not unislamic, then i think u need to clear some of ur misunderstandings. people like u, who r afraid of calling something wrong only coz htey want to portray themselves as being liberal and progessive cant comeup with any solid justifications for ur views. iin this whole discussino, the only tings u have said is that nightclubs r ok coz if anyone wants to use them, he can. all others can stay away. and i nullified that logic didnt i? ofcourse, u decided not reply to that post at all.