Man has free choice!

[Zechariah]

"Whatever good happens to you is from GOD ; but whatever evil happens to you is from your own self."(Qur'an 4:79)

We cannot blame GOD for our problems as the fault lies within ourselves. Man has been given free choice in the world and we are responsible for our own actions and our actions will determine whether we go into heaven and hell.

Usually people say out of ignorance that there is a book which has names of all people going to hell and heaven - this is utter nonsense and goes against Allah's Quran. Allah does not punish anyone unjustly. Below and above verse prove this.

[45:22] GOD created the heavens and the earth for a specific purpose, in order to pay each soul for whatever it earned, without the least injustice.

The verse clearly says that we will be given our judgement based on what we earn in the world. When we commit a sin - it is not fate - it is your own fault and we have to admit our faults as Allah forgives.

We have been sent in the world for a test and we have to chose our path - if we chose wrong path we go to hell and if we chose right path we go to heaven.This is what Quran teaches us. There is no book with names anywhere, such thinking is an insult to Allah as He does not make anything without a purpose.Everyone is born sin free and our actions in life will determine who will go where.

God knows you and can see your future. All things, including people, are dependant on God. Also, since He made and controls existance, nothing happens without His assent. All your successes and failures are attributed to him. He has measured your life's circumstances according how hard you work in the world, and has given a varied and challenging test for each person to pass. This teaches you how to make choices and learn to live by faith and virtue, or descend into a life of nihilism and immorality; your choice. Life is a test, not a series of punishments.

[Boys_played_well]

I stopped reading at the first line when I saw this:

"Whatever good happens to you is from Allah; but whatever evil happens to you is from your own self."(Qur'an 4:79)"

How convenient! We are supposed to be unendingly thankful to God and feel forever indebted when soemthing good happens, but if we are in a tough spot...God has nothing to do with it.

Nice joke.

[Zechariah]

You should have read ahead

[45:22] GOD created the heavens and the earth for a specific purpose, in order to pay each soul for whatever it earned, without the least injustice.

Ponder on this verse for a while and then read the first one again then you will find the connection.

GOD doesnt punish someone unjustly, yes we do evil we get punished by GOD but we cannot blame him as the point is to see our own fault and not blame him.

When something good happens its from GOD as well but we should be thankful to him as we worked hard and got our reward.

[pakistani_banda]

Originally Posted by Boys_played_well I stopped reading at the first line when I saw this: "Whatever good happens to you is from Allah; but whatever evil happens to you is from your own self."(Qur'an 4:79)" How convenient! We are supposed to be unendingly thankful to God and feel forever indebted when soemthing good happens, but if we are in a tough spot...God has nothing to do with it. Nice joke.

everyhing comes from Allah, whether be good or bad. it is up to us how we lead our lives, and how we mae our choices. yes we are supposed to be unedingly thankfull to Allah , no matter in wat situation we r in, may it be good or bad. we have to have hope in Him and not loose faith.

[Boys_played_well]

Originally Posted by Zechariah You should have read ahead [45:22] GOD created the heavens and the earth for a specific purpose, in order to pay each soul for whatever it earned, without the least injustice. Ponder on this verse for a while and then read the first one again then you will find the connection.

What makes me believe that we will get justice in afterlife, when we cant even get justice in this life?

We have all seen good things happen to bad people, and bad things happen to good people. In fact, from the part of the world we are from... this is a way of life.


In any case, my qualm with that first line was not about justice. It was about how Islam makes it's followers feel indebted and subservient when something pleasant happens, while if something goes wrong then that is attributed to the shaitain in you.

I still remember after the earthquakes in Pakistan that claimed 80,000 lives... some religious scholars explained that people living in those areas must have been doing something wrong, or their faith was not strong enough, so they deserved what they got.

Wonderful how we put God on a pedestal whenever something good happens, and absolve him of any blame when something bad happens..

[Boys_played_well]

Originally Posted by pakistani_banda everyhing comes from Allah, whether be good or bad. it is up to us how we lead our lives, and how we mae our choices. yes we are supposed to be unedingly thankfull to Allah , no matter in wat situation we r in, may it be good or bad. we have to have hope in Him and not loose faith.

Brother.. I think you will be much more at peace if you just kept hope and faith in your own self and those around you that you trust (i.e, the goodness of humanity). Human beings are smarter and more resilient than we give ourselves credit for.

There is not telling what may happen tomorrow, or even 5 minutes from now.. and relying on someone/thing that you can not explain is a dangerous ploy.

[Zechariah]

Originally Posted by Boys_played_well We have all seen good things happen to bad people, and bad things happen to good people. In fact, from the part of the world we are from... this is a way of life.

As I have said before my friend, man has free choice, bad things happen to good people vice verse but that does not mean that GOD is not knowing what is going on, everyone shall get thier justice one day or another, what goes around comes around.

In any case, my qualm with that first line was not about justice. It was about how Islam makes it's followers feel indebted and subservient when something pleasant happens, while if something goes wrong then that is attributed to the shaitain in you.

The verse merely means that whatever happens to us is from GOD bad or good but when something good happens we should be thankful to the higher power and when somethind bad happens then it is our fault somewhere along the line or someone did something bad to you.

I still remember after the earthquakes in Pakistan that claimed 80,000 lives... some religious scholars explained that people living in those areas must have been doing something wrong, or their faith was not strong enough, so they deserved what they got.

People of Gemorrah were destroyed for thier homoseual activities by an earthquake. When earthquakes and punishments come it is either a result of our own actions or GOD just puts us in such a situation to see test our faith - do we beleive in him when it matters or disblieve in him.

[pakistani_banda]

Originally Posted by Boys_played_well What makes me believe that we will get justice in afterlife, when we cant even get justice in this life? We have all seen good things happen to bad people, and bad things happen to good people. In fact, from the part of the world we are from... this is a way of life. In any case, my qualm with that first line was not about justice. It was about how Islam makes it's followers feel indebted and subservient when something pleasant happens, while if something goes wrong then that is attributed to the shaitain in you. I still remember after the earthquakes in Pakistan that claimed 80,000 lives... some religious scholars explained that people living in those areas must have been doing something wrong, or their faith was not strong enough, so they deserved what they got. Wonderful how we put God on a pedestal whenever something good happens, and absolve him of any blame when something bad happens..

i dont think that might be true, as natural disasters do not see who is religious and who is not. banda aceh in indonesia was destroyed due to the tsunami. as far as i remember that city had really good muslims, but they all died in the tsunami.

[Boys_played_well]

Originally Posted by Zechariah You should have read ahead [45:22] GOD created the heavens and the earth for a specific purpose, in order to pay each soul for whatever it earned, without the least injustice. Ponder on this verse for a while and then read the first one again then you will find the connection. GOD doesnt punish someone unjustly, yes we do evil we get punished by GOD but we cannot blame him as the point is to see our own fault and not blame him. When something good happens its from GOD as well but we should be thankful to him as we worked hard and got our reward.

On the same token, when something good happens we should commend ourselves and those that made it possible instead of pledging our unending worship to God... the point here should be to acknowledge our own efforts and grow in confidence and strength, rather than feel even more subservient to God so that we may get future success.

[pakistani_banda]

Originally Posted by Boys_played_well On the same token, when something good happens we should commend ourselves and those that made it possible instead of pledging our unending worship to God... the point here should be to acknowledge our own efforts and grow in confidence and strength, rather than feel even more subservient to God so that we may get future success.

yes true u should credit the people as well, but it is Allah who has created that for u. those people or the circumstances r just a means of getting that good thing done. if Allah wanted we would not even be alive right now. He controls our lives , our bread and butter, and we should be ever thankful to Him. everything we do is all predetrmined. whatever we do is destiny, and it was bound to happen. all we can do is to try and do our best to do good, and Allah will judge us accordingly.

[Boys_played_well]

"People of Gemorrah were destroyed for thier homoseual activities by an earthquake. When earthquakes and punishments come it is either a result of our own actions or GOD just puts us in such a situation to see test our faith - do we beleive in him when it matters or disblieve in him."

You tell me my friend... if you see 80,000 of your countrymen perish, would your faith in God in be strengthened or shattered?

As for your point about justice being served in the life after, I am not willing to put my faith in that happening as I see no evidence of it. Sure, it is stated in the Quran, but then it comes down to blind faith...if you are willing to believe blindly in it then you are all set, if you are more inquisitive and need further reassurance, then you are screwed.

Can you see the dilemma a human is put in if he wants to believe in Islam? It's either blind faith, or no faith.

[Boys_played_well]

Originally Posted by pakistani_banda yes true u should credit the people as well, but it is Allah who has created that for u. those people or the circumstances r just a means of getting that good thing done. if Allah wanted we would not even be alive right now. He controls our lives , our bread and butter, and we should be ever thankful to Him. everything we do is all predetrmined. whatever we do is destiny, and it was bound to happen. all we can do is to try and do our best to do good, and Allah will judge us accordingly.

I think we will circle back and forth with this discussion, as my next retort would have been...if everything is predetermined, and God has already chalked out a destiny for us, WHY cant we attribute our tough times and "blame" God for them just like we attribute our good times to him?

I guess you guys and I just think differently...but I am glad we can have an open discussion in a civilized manner about this.

[pakistani_banda]

Originally Posted by Boys_played_well I think we will circle back and forth with this discussion, as my next retort would have been...if everything is predetermined, and God has already chalked out a destiny for us, WHY cant we attribute our tough times and "blame" God for them just like we attribute our good times to him? I guess you guys and I just think differently...but I am glad we can have an open discussion in a civilized manner about this.

dont worry u wont have to listen to me being rude or swear at any body for no apparent reason.

it all comes down to what u believe. like in bollywood movies the hindus (no offence to any hindus over here i just want to give an example) blame thier gods just because something bad happpened, and sme eeven stop believing in their gods.

i find this disturbing, cos thenone is just being a hypocryte that ur thanking God only when there r good times and abandning Him when there r bad times.
and also the earth quake and tsunami. we do not the real reason (ie y they died). maybe Allah had something better for them, didnt want them to fac the hardships that r to come in the future, or it can be the other way round as well.
only Allah knows wat the real reason is.

also we must hope for the best, and there is good in everything that Allah does. it may seem bad to us now, but in the future when we will look back we will say that we r glad that that had happened.

[MCMLXXXII]

It all comes down to your belief in the end. You either believe in God or you don't.

However if you do believe in God, you have to remember it is not a relationship among equals. Therefore when you try to put the blame on God, it is an act of arrogance on your part. If you believe in God as the all powerful and all knowing, then you must believe that nothing happens without the permission of God. So even though you have free will, God has granted you permission to use that free will and obtain what you strive for.

Let me give you a crude analogy. Say you need some extra credit to pass a class. Your scores have been low and you need a chance to redeem your self. You ask your teacher to give you an extra credit assignment. Now how you do on this assignment is up to you. If you do badly then it is all your fault. But if you do well, then it is your teacher you must thank who gave you the opportunity to do the assignment in the first place.

If you believe in Allah then you must believe that it is not by right that we have life, it is a blessing that we have along with all the other blessings we have in the universe that makes us live our lives. We must also understand that there is nothing that we can do which could ever repay Allah for all he has given us. Even if we spent our entire lifetime in supplication and prayer. All we can do is obey Allah and his commandments and reap the rewards that we have been promised for following those commandments.

[filosofee]

The only place we might have "free choice" is in our dreams, awake-dreams!