The most Islamic nation on Earth

[Oval]

This is a nation that I believe is closest how an islamic society should operate. So, what does this nation look like......

Wealth, though abundant, is shared. Taxes are high in order to look after all of society. Individuals in general are humble in their wealth. Extrovert shows of wealth are frowned upon.

Health system is high quality, life expectancy etc is good.

It is a peaceful nation (the most peaceful on earth according to a recent survey).

It consistently appears at the top of the list of nations comparing respective quality of life

There is a very high degree of sexual equality. Females are equals in society.

Welfare systems are best on earth. Maternity arrangements, paternity arrangements, sick leave arrangements etc are superb.

The nation politically supports hopeless cases of injustice (Palestine and Sri Lanka) better an any other nation on earth.

Drivers have respect for pedestrians, kids can play in the streets knowing cars will be going at a slow speed and stop/slow down.

Housing schemes are designed to give maximum community feel: playgrounds dotted all over the place, only cars of owners can pass through, otherwise they must stick to main roads,

It is a very healthy nation: vast majority are regular outdoor sports enthusiasts: skiing, running, biking, boating, fishing, walking etc

Cyclists have respect on the road.

Corruption is minimal, transparency in all matters, economic, political etc is the norm.

Elders are respected. Kids are respected. The family unit is strong.

Education standards are very high.

Litter on streets is rare, people take care of their communities. neighbors look out for each other. Crime is low.

Work life balance is fantastic. Low hours, high amount of time spent on leisure activities.

And if you're still in doubt, the UN's Human development report lists it as the best country in the world to live.

Not bad eh?

The country I'm referring to: Norway!
No, its not perfect state, there never was and never will be a perfect nation: but can you think of a nation more in tune with Islamic values than Norway? Its a great great country, and I'm very proud to be living here. Islamic nations will do well to emulate the Norwegian way of life.

I don't know what exactly those HT/al-mohajiroun followers refer to when they harp after a 'Khilafah' state, or what they envision the state to look like: but if their ideal state is anything like the nation that I live in now, I'll sign up for this Khilafa state thingy straight away!!

[Zohaib Shah]

NO Way Get outta here!

[dblock]

Yes you got a point there!

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Oval This is a nation that I believe is closest how an islamic society should operate. So, what does this nation look like...... Wealth, though abundant, is shared. Taxes are high in order to look after all of society. Individuals in general are humble in their wealth. Extrovert shows of wealth are frowned upon. Health system is high quality, life expectancy etc is good. It is a peaceful nation (the most peaceful on earth according to a recent survey). It consistently appears at the top of the list of nations comparing respective quality of life There is a very high degree of sexual equality. Females are equals in society. Welfare systems are best on earth. Maternity arrangements, paternity arrangements, sick leave arrangements etc are superb. The nation politically supports hopeless cases of injustice (Palestine and Sri Lanka) better an any other nation on earth. Drivers have respect for pedestrians, kids can play in the streets knowing cars will be going at a slow speed and stop/slow down. Housing schemes are designed to give maximum community feel: playgrounds dotted all over the place, only cars of owners can pass through, otherwise they must stick to main roads, It is a very healthy nation: vast majority are regular outdoor sports enthusiasts: skiing, running, biking, boating, fishing, walking etc Cyclists have respect on the road. Corruption is minimal, transparency in all matters, economic, political etc is the norm. Elders are respected. Kids are respected. The family unit is strong. Education standards are very high. Litter on streets is rare, people take care of their communities. neighbors look out for each other. Crime is low. Work life balance is fantastic. Low hours, high amount of time spent on leisure activities. And if you're still in doubt, the UN's Human development report lists it as the best country in the world to live. Not bad eh? The country I'm referring to: Norway! No, its not perfect state, there never was and never will be a perfect nation: but can you think of a nation more in tune with Islamic values than Norway? Its a great great country, and I'm very proud to be living here. Islamic nations will do well to emulate the Norwegian way of life. I don't know what exactly those HT/al-mohajiroun followers refer to when they harp after a 'Khilafah' state, or what they envision the state to look like: but if their ideal state is anything like the nation that I live in now, I'll sign up for this Khilafa state thingy straight away!!

I guess the next question to ask is, how many brown people are in norway ? I take it not many, hence perfection.

[Oval]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy I guess the next question to ask is, how many brown people are in norway ? I take it not many, hence perfection.

Sorry for being dumb, but what's your point?

[Amir]

Oval just out of curiousty, how is the Islamic life there? Alot of halal places to eat? Easy to find a mosque?

I always though I may want to live in Switzerland one day, but after reading the recent article I do not think that will even happen. I am just curious how is the Muslims life in Norway. Not from a liberal perspective (like in your post, which is very nice btw) but from a Islamic perspective.

[Zohaib Shah]

Originally Posted by Oval Sorry for being dumb, but what's your point?

He means to say is that brown people in the U.S have messy homes, messy lives. So are there any brown people there(Norway) or no?

[Oval]

Originally Posted by Amir Oval just out of curiousty, how is the Islamic life there? Alot of halal places to eat? Easy to find a mosque? I always though I may want to live in Switzerland one day, but after reading the recent article I do not think that will even happen. I am just curious how is the Muslims life in Norway. Not from a liberal perspective (like in your post, which is very nice btw) but from a Islamic perspective.

I guess we have different understanding of Islamic perspective.

Im my eyes, caring for the environment, having a fair justice system, caring for all in society, human rights for all regardless of gender etc, safety, importance of local communities, looking after health, a quality welfare system, playing a part in international politics: in my eyes, all this is what islam propagates.

You ask how many mosques there are hear. How does that increase islamic values. Arab states, to take an example, have zillions of mosques and all food is halal. Does that make those places islamic? Actually, the small town that I live in has numerous mosques. But that doesn't mean islam is growing, just that each segment of muslim wants its own mosque for language/cultural/political/practical reasons.

As a muslim living in Norway: why would I want to live anywhere else. I can wear what I want, eat what I want, worship how I want, be a muslim without fear of persecution. And when Ramadan falls in winter, you only have to fast for a few hours :-)

[Oval]

Originally Posted by Zohaib Shah He means to say is that brown people in the U.S have messy homes, messy lives. So are there any brown people there(Norway) or no?

Yes there are brown people in Norway. I am one.

I guess I have a messy life, but if its too messy the Mrs pulls me by the ear and gets me to do the housework.

(Does this help the discussion?)

[Amir]

Originally Posted by Oval I guess we have different understanding of Islamic perspective. Im my eyes, caring for the environment, having a fair justice system, caring for all in society, human rights for all regardless of gender etc, safety, importance of local communities, looking after health, a quality welfare system, playing a part in international politics: in my eyes, all this is what islam propagates. You ask how many mosques there are hear. How does that increase islamic values. Arab states, to take an example, have zillions of mosques and all food is halal. Does that make those places islamic? Actually, the small town that I live in has numerous mosques. But that doesn't mean islam is growing, just that each segment of muslim wants its own mosque for language/cultural/political/practical reasons. As a muslim living in Norway: why would I want to live anywhere else. I can wear what I want, eat what I want, worship how I want, be a muslim without fear of persecution. And when Ramadan falls in winter, you only have to fast for a few hours :-)

I was not saying it makes you more Islamic but I mean does Norway have access to Islamic tools I guess what I am getting at. I am actually not arguing with you, I really want to know incase I want to live in Norway one day (though I very much love Canada)!

Going to the mosque and access to halal meat is a very big part of my life. Trust me, whenever I go out with ffirends in my city since it is a small town....I always hav eo tgo for the pasta, salad or something veggie. I need my meat! And havign access to a mosque is very big part too since I need to regularly attend Jummah and for Eid prayer and what not. I am just curiou sto know to increase my knowledge.

[Zohaib Shah]

Originally Posted by Oval Yes there are brown people in Norway. I am one. I guess I have a messy life, but if its too messy the Mrs pulls me by the ear and gets me to do the housework. (Does this help the discussion?)

Well are you Brown and Mexican?

[thebob]

Thank you for your wise words Oval...To view Islam in this pluralistic vein is something that many Muslims omit...

The society that you describe is certainly a more just society (which is precisely the essence of a Muslim one) but do note that it has been the socialist parties that have worked towards this vision, it has been the socialist welfare state that has allowed it to become. As a social-economic system socialism has always been close to an Islamic value system. It is unfortunate that today Muslims across the world recoil when the word socialism is used - like much of the rest of the world.

I would add a caveat however: whilst Norway does indeed have significant pockets of Asian/Muslim minorities, it similarly has its share of Right Wing neo-fascist groups are getting more and more of the vote, and whilst their nonsense about banning Islam gets the attention of the Muslims (for obvious reasons) the greater dangers lie in the dismantling of the socialist inspired welfare system...its these wider dangers that the Muslim community perpetually fails to engage in. I think your experience of Norway needs to be tempered by these other currents...

[Joseph K.]

When he said 'most Islamic', I thought he might mention Pakistan, Saudi Arabia or Somalia. Who can be more Islamic than these three!!!

[Plasma]

lol i guessed it after i read like the first 3 lines.
but im kinda jealous because norway is toping the list of many factors here. Most developed, 2nd or 3rd richest as in per capita (i think) most peaceful. Would like to visit it, but the downside is that i don't speak norwegian and not to many desi people there im guessing. Rhe desi part can go both ways, good and bad...

[Disco_Lemonade]

What about Sweden?? Anyone from there or visited there?

[aliff]

Better among the 'Most Islamic nation' is Malaysia.

Saudi, Pak, etc. are Islamic countries, but are not among the better/top ones.

[Joseph K.]

Originally Posted by aliff Better among the 'Most Islamic nation' is Malaysia. Saudi, Pak, etc. are Islamic countries, but are not among the better/top ones.

The Somalis I know take pride in the fact that "only Somalia and Albania have 100% Muslim population" (as if we can't tell by the state that their country is in!)

[kablooee87]

Malaysia. That has always been a country which I think Pakistan should look to as a model.

[aliff]

Originally Posted by Joseph K. The Somalis I know take pride in the fact that "only Somalia and Albania have 100% Muslim population" (as if we can't tell by the state that their country is in!)

ok.. i think i misunderstood the topic, i thought by most Islamic you meant, more closer to Islamic law... in that case i mean - Malaysia.

btw, Albania has 70-75% muslims.. Source: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3235.htm

[Oval]

Originally Posted by thebob I would add a caveat however: whilst Norway does indeed have significant pockets of Asian/Muslim minorities, it similarly has its share of Right Wing neo-fascist groups are getting more and more of the vote, and whilst their nonsense about banning Islam gets the attention of the Muslims (for obvious reasons) the greater dangers lie in the dismantling of the socialist inspired welfare system...its these wider dangers that the Muslim community perpetually fails to engage in. I think your experience of Norway needs to be tempered by these other currents...

There is a voice in my head says be careful, you never when the economy may turn here (north sea oil wont last forever) and the reaction of the Norwegian 'natives' then will be the acid test.

These days the right wing party (Progress party) though still a significant party, has slipped somewhat behind the (nicer!) Labour party. But the latest poll still shows the Progress party at 24%. That's very significant portion of the population who have pretty scary views re. foreigners!

Media-wise, Almost every story that refers to muslims/pakistanis/immigrants is a negative story, i.e. is a bad news story. As a brownie (no, I'm not mexican Zohaib!) living in Norway, that's depressing. There are some golden nugget immigrant stories dotted around, but they are few in number.

Norway is a proud nation. They (by choice) are some what isolated from continental Europe, and from other Scandinivian countries. They are proud f their independence, self reliance, language, society, and (reassuringly) the welfare state. Immigrants do not find it easy, for sure. Partly out of fear, partly ignorance, partly out of self-superiority.

But still, at least in the part of Norway I live, which is very multicultural, there are few society tensions that I can see. I know rural views are different from town views. But, before demonising the country, I ask myself is Norway any different to any other country (Pakistan and Arab states included) in its regard for foreigners. Is it not natural for the local population to want to look after 'ones own' and want to protect their wealth, heritage and way of living.

Immigrants to Norway have a great responsibility to adjust their ways to fit in to the norm. Large swathes of the Pakistani immigrants have failed. I am not apportioning blame here, I agree it lies on more than one side. But what I have experienced is that individuals have a great influence over improving the lot of themselves as individuals and collectively. The majority are very willing to accept and continue the path down multicultural society.

But yes there are concerns. The US (and Canada) are I think the great exceptions to welcoming immigrants, so in the league tables, I admit Norway will be placed comfortable behind those two nations.

[irfan]

I beleive the biggest ethnic minority group in Norway are actually Pakistanis.

[Oval]

Originally Posted by Amir Going to the mosque and access to halal meat is a very big part of my life. Trust me, whenever I go out with ffirends in my city since it is a small town....I always hav eo tgo for the pasta, salad or something veggie. I need my meat! And havign access to a mosque is very big part too since I need to regularly attend Jummah and for Eid prayer and what not. I am just curiou sto know to increase my knowledge.

In towns, I have experienced that mosques are plentiful. Halal food is obtainable, but on a vastly reduced scale comapred to, for example, London.

But Islam extends to so much more than mosques and halal food.

Being a good muslim is about being active in the local community, enjoying and contributing to a healthy environment, etc etc etc, I wont repeat earlier thoughts I have made in this thread.

I think that's a mistake muslims make, seizing on the 'tabgible' aspects of islam (hijab, halal food) at the expense of the more holistic lifestyle that muslims are encouraged (ordered) to strive for.

Its in these other (less glamourous?) aspects of islam that I beleive Norway sets a shining exampe for other (incl. all muslim) nations.

[Oval]

Originally Posted by irfan I beleive the biggest ethnic minority group in Norway are actually Pakistanis.

Correct: and there are some serious issues re. 'their' merging into the Norwegian way of life. There is much room for improvement.

[Oval]

Originally Posted by aliff Better among the 'Most Islamic nation' is Malaysia.

I know Malaysia has an awesome education reputation. But other than that, I am not familiar with the country's political + social condition, and international outlook.

(And I know they put raisins and nuts in their rice: yukk!)

[The Blazer]

Pffft, Norway. Why would anyone want to live there?

[Medic]

Originally Posted by The Blazer Pffft, Norway. Why would anyone want to live there?

Possibly for the reasons stated in post 1

[The Blazer]

Originally Posted by Medic Possibly for the reasons stated in post 1

Oi yaar...We have a GCSE Maths exam tomorrow- I'm off. Good luck!

[Medic]

Originally Posted by The Blazer Oi yaar...We have a GCSE Maths exam tomorrow- I'm off. Good luck!

I know, I'm wide awake though

Good luck

[Aurangzeb]

racism is also a problem in norway...with obstacles to integration, pakistanis are finding themselves adopting a life of crime due to societal factors...a norweigian movie based on this reality called "izzat" was made on this very topic...

racism ain;t islamic...

[Oval]

Originally Posted by Aurangzeb racism ain;t islamic...

True, can't argue with that.

But unfortunately, most (all?) muslim dominated countries/societies are even more racist than Norway...so I'd still put Norway near the good end of the tree in the racism league table also!

[Zechariah]

many western countries have Islamic systems and are living Islam even though they are not Muslims, i hope they all become true Muslims soon as Muslims in today's time have made a mocket of Islam.

Oval you make a great point this is what I have noticed as well living in Canada, the system of welfare and justice is very close what Islam taught us, if they eradicated some evils from thier society they can become true Islamic states.

Islamic States doesnt mean you look women at homes, and make women wear Burqa, my dear freinds Islam is very very above such petty matters.

In the Islamic world, Tunisia nad Malaysia have very good Islamic systems.

[K2]

y most of the ppl in muslim society(atleast pakistani) tell others"hey wots happening is not islam. Let me show u the correct version of it. This is islam. islam tells us this and that"

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by K2 y most of the ppl in muslim society(atleast pakistani) tell others"hey wots happening is not islam. Let me show u the correct version of it. This is islam. islam tells us this and that"

because we know everything and better than others. if you agree otherwise you are in trouble at day of judgement.
This new culture is actually something I didn't have to face in person but I see it more on the net. Maybe leaving Pakistan middle of Zia time spared me