To all those who are criticizing Mohammad Yousuf

[Fine leg]

All those who are criticizing Yousuf ... I'd just like to say that please don't act like hypocrites.

Most of the guys here on this forum are British Pakistanis ... why don't you go and critize your parents first, who decided to leave Pakistan for money and better life.

How many of you are enjoying better paying jobs in States or in Europe right now? .... why dont you go and work in Pakistan .... what is stopping you from doing that? Greed?

If you work in a Pakistani company and do well in a very complicated project (Yousuf ... 1,788 test runs in 2006) but you are thrown out of a rather smaller project that you really wanted to be a part of for your resume and the reason given to you is that you are thought to be incompetent for that project ... what would you do? Get annoyed? Get disgusted? Change jobs? Treat it as a signal of things to come? Try to look for a new job to secure your future earnings?

=====
Why are you guys using a different yardstick to measure Yousuf's loyalty than the yardstick you use to measure your own loyalty towards Pakistan.
=====

Javed Miandad left the Pakistan team to be part of Kerry Packer but no one can doubt his love for Pakistan no matter what you think about him as a person.


... and to all those arm-chair critics and followers of the game who watch cricket while lying in your couch ... "a good player is a good player is a good player" (Ricky Ponting) i.e., a good player is a good player in every form of the game.

[Boys_played_well]

A lot of people are making the mistake of considering playing for Pakistan "national duty". These guys are cricketers!! not soldiers who are deserting their country to fight for another country because of more money. Cricketers are professionals like anyone else, and will go where there is more money.

Let's stop being foolish and think cricketers are morally obligated to serve the country and what not. If cricketers should serve the country, so should the businessmen, IT professionals, bankers, social workers amongst us who are residing abroad and contributing to a foreign economy.

YES, it would be nice if Yousuf etc played for the Pakistan team, but then again, they are not the ones who don't want to play - the stupid PCB won't let them because of their nonsensical policies.

Don't hate the player hate the game.

[jusarrived]

I wud play for india for free ,if I was good enuf.....working abroad & ditching your national team for more money is not the same ......& its not like MOYO has no money !

[iZeeshan]

Bro, you can't compare leaving abroad to playing cricket. Playing cricket for your country is much better and DIFFERENT then leaving the country to create a better lifestyle.

[skr30]

well the least he can do now is put on a three piece suit and shave the beard.

[Big Harvey]

I can understand why people feel betrayed by their heroes. I felt exactly the same years ago about the England players who signed for Packer. Nowadays I have to earn a living myself, and am more understanding. Pakistan players (like the England players in those days) do not earn massive amounts of money. I don't blame Inzi for taking the money one bit. He was refused a central contract by the PCB. He cannot be blamed for interpreting that as a message that as far as the PCB is concerned, his international career is all but finished.

However the cases of Mo Yo and Imran Farhat are different. Both potentially have years (possibly their best years) ahead of them at international level. In each case their defection follows a falling out with the PCB, and bears the hallmarks of a display of petulance rather than being a case of chasing the money. Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's certainly how it looks from here. In the case of Mo Yo, he is definitely right to feel angry at the way he's been treated, but by doing this he could be cutting off his nose to spite his face.

For me, the ICL doesn't have anything like the credibility of Packer's World Series. If it all goes wrong, will those lucrative contracts even be paid? Mo Yo in particular is taking a very big gamble indeed. My hope is that the ICL can come to some agreement with the BCCI, and that Mo Yo can be restored to his rightful place in international cricket, which would be much poorer without him.

[kayanni]

Fine leg

to say "Most of the guys here on this forum are British Pakistanis ... why don't you go and critize your parents first, who decided to leave Pakistan for money and better life"

thats not right - my father left pakistan not for a better life but to ensure his brothers/sisters were looked after as in the early 60's there were not many jobs in Pak commercial sector.. he didnt leave his mother and father for the love of money or a better life, circumstances dictated that he had to act. I have businesses back in Pak which are providing money back into the pak economy, other ex-pats send money back to Pakistan which is used to assist the economy so general statements like you make are not strictly true.

I think those parents who came in the 60/70's came for the need of money for those back home not for the better life etc - that bit has evolved afterwards in the early 90's

When i ask my dad why he left - he says things were tight and he felt at the time there was no other choice. Would he do it again - he say def NO.

with regard to Yousuf - 2 things - he is getting paid a healthy wage and sponsorship deals to feed his family quite a few times over and he is only moving for greed and the need to have more.....sure part of it is a protest at the board....

secondly its not that he has moved that upsets me but the fact that he did it all cloak and danger style...... how does he preach to the youngsters about being a good Muslim when he is deceiving others.... same with Inzi and his recent statements about proving his fitness etc

that is what has really irked me - when he got dropped from the 20/20 he turned round and said It is Allah's SWT will and he accepts it in good grace and then he shocks us by signing for the ICL after he had told reporters that he had only recieved the contract late and his lawyers were reviewing and inshallah he would sign it very soon.

quotes from yousuf:

August 7: Yousuf was not disappointed at being left out of the team and was confident that it would not affect his long-term future. "Selection was in God's hands and I can't force myself into the team."

August 10: "I only saw the contract yesterday [Thursday]. My lawyer is going through it now and I see no problem in signing it once the lawyer has seen it, which should take a day or two," Yousuf said.

source: cricinfo (look on news on the Pak page)

I would have respected his decision if he had been honest to us the FANS!!!

If seems that he had already decided to join the ICL on the 10 August as if he any issues with the contract he should have discussed it with the PCB first

[deviously~fading~away]

Originally Posted by Fine leg All those who are criticizing Yousuf ... I'd just like to say that please don't act like hypocrites. Most of the guys here on this forum are British Pakistanis ... why don't you go and critize your parents first, who decided to leave Pakistan for money and better life. How many of you are enjoying better paying jobs in States or in Europe right now? .... why dont you go and work in Pakistan .... what is stopping you from doing that? Greed? If you work in a Pakistani company and do well in a very complicated project (Yousuf ... 1,788 test runs in 2006) but you are thrown out of a rather smaller project that you really wanted to be a part of for your resume and the reason given to you is that you are thought to be incompetent for that project ... what would you do? Get annoyed? Get disgusted? Change jobs? Treat it as a signal of things to come? Try to look for a new job to secure your future earnings? ===== Why are you guys using a different yardstick to measure Yousuf's loyalty than the yardstick you use to measure your own loyalty towards Pakistan. ===== Javed Miandad left the Pakistan team to be part of Kerry Packer but no one can doubt his love for Pakistan no matter what you think about him as a person. ... and to all those arm-chair critics and followers of the game who watch cricket while lying in your couch ... "a good player is a good player is a good player" (Ricky Ponting) i.e., a good player is a good player in every form of the game.

If it will help you sleep better at night than fine! Inzi, MoYo & Razzaq did what every human would & should do!

[Hash]

This point has already been made repeatedly in several threads. There was no need to create an entirely new thread to say it again.

But for the record, I don't accept this argument at all. Not even in the least bit. Representing your country on the world stage cannot even be partially compared to working for a company or business in Pakistan and moving somewhere else to work for a better company or business.

Yousuf HAS let the Pakistan team down by doing this....whatever his reasons, whether it was a tantrum or whether it was to chase some money......even if he backtracks now I'm not sure if I would want him in the team.

[kayanni]

Hash - what is the view of things from the man on the street in Pak

ps have you got a hotmail address i could talk to you on - as i want to move back to Pak in the next few years!!! mine is kayanni786@hotmail.com

[Hash]

Sure I'll drop you a line in a bit.

As for the 'man on the street'....most of my discussions with taxi drivers etc centre around politics but I'll bring this up tomorrow and find out. The only incident was the chapraasi at work yesterday who was reading the newspaper and said 'Youhana saab tau pagal hau gya hai'.

Farhat was on TV yesterday claiming that people have come up to him in the park where he jogs and told him what a brilliant decision he has made and how they fully support him but that's so blatently bull.

[TaZ]

There a moral vs financial stance being put forward here. It doesnt matter. What matters is he's gone and our middle order is now very fragile with Inzi also out. Worse, the PCB wont look to the future but recall the likes of Faisal Iqbal which in my opinion makes us even weaker. Where is all the batting talent in Pak. Lets see them

[kayanni]

Originally Posted by Hash Sure I'll drop you a line in a bit. As for the 'man on the street'....most of my discussions with taxi drivers etc centre around politics but I'll bring this up tomorrow and find out. The only incident was the chapraasi at work yesterday who was reading the newspaper and said 'Youhana saab tau pagal hau gya hai'. Farhat was on TV yesterday claiming that people have come up to him in the park where he jogs and told him what a brilliant decision he has made and how they fully support him but that's so blatently bull.

I see you are picking up the lingo - chapraasi - hahahahaa

Farhat - jogs, your kidding me

[Sheikh]

Originally Posted by Hash Sure I'll drop you a line in a bit. As for the 'man on the street'....most of my discussions with taxi drivers etc centre around politics but I'll bring this up tomorrow and find out. The only incident was the chapraasi at work yesterday who was reading the newspaper and said 'Youhana saab tau pagal hau gya hai'. Farhat was on TV yesterday claiming that people have come up to him in the park where he jogs and told him what a brilliant decision he has made and how they fully support him but that's so blatently bull.

I love that he's still being called Youhana. Maybe that should be his punishment for going to the ICL.

[Phuzz]

I'm sure if any of us played for Pakistan (who don't earn such bad money) and are that passionate would not give up the opportunity just for a lame money making tournament such as the ICL. It's obvious Yousuf just cares about himself and not for the future of Pakistan cricket.

[W63L35]

Originally Posted by Hash This point has already been made repeatedly in several threads. There was no need to create an entirely new thread to say it again.

Another point that has been brought up again and again.......that since when DNA is an authority to declare ICL null and void when ICC have said that ICL is internal BCCI matter and they won't interfere. All DNA has to do is....to let Pak players play for ICL and everybody will be happy. It is mind boggling that people blame Yousaf/Razzaq/Farhat for DNA's actions!!!

Originally Posted by Hash But for the record, I don't accept this argument at all. Not even in the least bit. Representing your country on the world stage cannot even be partially compared to working for a company or business in Pakistan and moving somewhere else to work for a better company or business.

DNA and Pawar can run the team and their respective boards like businesses but player can not make a business like decision???

Like I said earlier, if Brett Lee kills Imran Nazir with a bouncer....we'll call him Shaheed for his national service!

Originally Posted by Hash Yousuf HAS let the Pakistan team down by doing this....whatever his reasons, whether it was a tantrum or whether it was to chase some money......even if he backtracks now I'm not sure if I would want him in the team.

He should be hanged in public for this.....just like Miandad, Imran, Asif Iqbal, Mushtaq and Majid were when they joined Kerry Packer!

[W63L35]

Originally Posted by Hash Sure I'll drop you a line in a bit. As for the 'man on the street'....most of my discussions with taxi drivers etc centre around politics but I'll bring this up tomorrow and find out. The only incident was the chapraasi at work yesterday who was reading the newspaper and said 'Youhana saab tau pagal hau gya hai'. Farhat was on TV yesterday claiming that people have come up to him in the park where he jogs and told him what a brilliant decision he has made and how they fully support him but that's so blatently bull.

Weren't you questioning the crowd I hang around in around in another thread??

[Hash]

Originally Posted by W63L35 Weren't you questioning the crowd I hang around in around in another thread??

eh? I go to and from work in the suzooki taxis and I like to engage in conversation with the driver. I grab some lunch at a khoka selling samosas and the like, and I talk to the man while he is making them. I don't see what is so funny about this?

Perhaps you're one of those who go around in your air conditioned four wheel drives and wash your hands when you shake hands with someone of a lower class than you, but I aint like that

[Hash]

Originally Posted by W63L35 Another point that has been brought up again and again.......that since when DNA is an authority to declare ICL null and void when ICC have said that ICL is internal BCCI matter and they won't interfere. All DNA has to do is....to let Pak players play for ICL and everybody will be happy. It is mind boggling that people blame Yousaf/Razzaq/Farhat for DNA's actions!!!

DNA hasn't declared the ICL null and void. And if it is a BCCI internal matter then who is DNA to interfere and recognise it? You said it yourself....a BCCI internal matter! Nothing to do with the PCB!

All the players have to do is respect the fact they are representing Pakistan and everyone will be happy!

Originally Posted by W63L35 DNA and Pawar can run the team and their respective boards like businesses but player can not make a business like decision???

Oh yaaaaaaaaawn. Stop repeating things we already discussed yesterday.

Originally Posted by W63L35 Like I said earlier, if Brett Lee kills Imran Nazir with a bouncer....we'll call him Shaheed for his national service!

OK, again you are repeating yourself. You do not have to keep telling me that you don't buy this 'national service'.......but what you can't deny is that they are REPRESENTING PAKISTAN! Some would argue that when you are representing your country on the world stage, as our cricketers do, you are doing a service for your country!

Originally Posted by W63L35 He should be hanged in public for this.....just like Miandad, Imran, Asif Iqbal, Mushtaq and Majid were when they joined Kerry Packer!

Yes they were heavily criticised at the time and justifiably so. But the Packer series cannot be compared to the ICL.

[safehands46]

This is nothing like packers. The pakistani players for the longest time have been voicing there displeasure with the board. its basically the boards inability to do its job. Money is a non issue when it comes to any of the pakistani signings.

[Oxy]

Good on Inzi & Good on Yousuf!

Its not like ICL are the quivalent of the old South African Rebel tours that defied all the sanctions on the APARTHEID regime!

I dont like ICL. I dont think it will survive because it offers nothing groundbreaking in terms of cricket - and unlike PACKER, you will have to pay to watch it. Plus PACKER had the fittest players at the peak of their powers.

ICL - has 50 unknown Indians; 4 retired Kiwis; Lara and Inzi who are nearly 40!!!! I'm not paying to watch a freak show under the guise of cricket!!!

[Fine leg]

Fear Allah ... Yousaf is a muslim ... you should just fear Allah.

Just because Yousuf decides to play ICL instead of playing for Pakistan ... you have started to call him Youhana ??

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Where does it say in Islam that muslims are supposed to have nationalistic / patriotic views ??? .... infact nationalism is the real reason behind the fall of muslim umma because every muslim nation these days looks after her own interests even at the cost of lives of muslims from other nations.

Please fear Allah.

[W63L35]

Originally Posted by Oxy Good on Inzi & Good on Yousuf! Its not like ICL are the quivalent of the old South African Rebel tours that defied all the sanctions on the APARTHEID regime! I dont like ICL. I dont think it will survive because it offers nothing groundbreaking in terms of cricket - and unlike PACKER, you will have to pay to watch it. Plus PACKER had the fittest players at the peak of their powers. ICL - has 50 unknown Indians; 4 retired Kiwis; Lara and Inzi who are nearly 40!!!! I'm not paying to watch a freak show under the guise of cricket!!!

Couldn't agree more!!

[Oxy]

Originally Posted by Fine leg Fear Allah ... Yousaf is a muslim ... you should just fear Allah. Just because Yousuf decides to play ICL instead of playing for Pakistan ... you have started to call him Youhana ?? You should be ashamed of yourself. Where does it say in Islam that muslims are supposed to have nationalistic / patriotic views ??? .... infact nationalism is the real reason behind the fall of muslim umma because every muslim nation these days looks after her own interests even at the cost of lives of muslims from other nations. Please fear Allah.

They've been calling him a 'Hypocritical Muslim' for the last 3 days!!! Fact is, his earnings arent immoral and those who SLANDER HIM will have to answer for that one day!

I hope he's the highest earner for ICL!

[BD-fan]

All problem would be solved if PCB takes out the ban and let these players play anywhere they wish and national team. Can you people not hear Miadad?

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/icl/...ry/307974.html

[farhan]

MUHAMMAD YOUSAF might be saying this in near future, "" ICL KA AHSAN HAI AUR $$$$ KI MADAD SE YAHAN PAHAUNCHA HOON", instead of " ALLAH KA KARAM HAI AUR QUAM KI DUAOUN SE YEH KAMYAABI MILI HAI".
I still remember his first press conference after he broke the test runs record where he praised ALLAH and PAKISTAN so many times and now becomes a lotta for some $$$$ ! vow. what a sad story.

[ammarz]

Originally Posted by Fine leg Fear Allah ... Yousaf is a muslim ... you should just fear Allah. Just because Yousuf decides to play ICL instead of playing for Pakistan ... you have started to call him Youhana ?? You should be ashamed of yourself. Where does it say in Islam that muslims are supposed to have nationalistic / patriotic views ??? .... infact nationalism is the real reason behind the fall of muslim umma because every muslim nation these days looks after her own interests even at the cost of lives of muslims from other nations. Please fear Allah.

Direct quote from the Koran
"We have created you males and females, and have divided you into nations and tribes so that you may recognize each other..."
so ofcourse you would have nationalistic feelings and patriotism.
and no where it says that we should be following money should we !!

I am sure you can come up with another argument, but this is just my point of view.

[farhan]

Originally Posted by BD-fan All problem would be solved if PCB takes out the ban and let these players play anywhere they wish and national team. Can you people not hear Miadad? http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/icl/...ry/307974.html

miandad ,once leave pakistan along with several other players to play kerry packer.so obviously he is going to cry for icl. nowadays he complaint each and every thing. he used to be my super hero but not anymore.

[W63L35]

Originally Posted by BD-fan All problem would be solved if PCB takes out the ban and let these players play anywhere they wish and national team. Can you people not hear Miadad? http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/icl/...ry/307974.html

...Miandad who????? Some people choose to be deaf on purpose!

[king_of_kings_ali]

Originally Posted by Fine leg All those who are criticizing Yousuf ... I'd just like to say that please don't act like hypocrites. Most of the guys here on this forum are British Pakistanis ... why don't you go and critize your parents first, who decided to leave Pakistan for money and better life. How many of you are enjoying better paying jobs in States or in Europe right now? .... why dont you go and work in Pakistan .... what is stopping you from doing that? Greed? If you work in a Pakistani company and do well in a very complicated project (Yousuf ... 1,788 test runs in 2006) but you are thrown out of a rather smaller project that you really wanted to be a part of for your resume and the reason given to you is that you are thought to be incompetent for that project ... what would you do? Get annoyed? Get disgusted? Change jobs? Treat it as a signal of things to come? Try to look for a new job to secure your future earnings? ===== Why are you guys using a different yardstick to measure Yousuf's loyalty than the yardstick you use to measure your own loyalty towards Pakistan. ===== Javed Miandad left the Pakistan team to be part of Kerry Packer but no one can doubt his love for Pakistan no matter what you think about him as a person. ... and to all those arm-chair critics and followers of the game who watch cricket while lying in your couch ... "a good player is a good player is a good player" (Ricky Ponting) i.e., a good player is a good player in every form of the game.

Its not really the same is it. I havent critisesed Yousuf decision to leave but im suprised by it.

[W63L35]

Originally Posted by farhan MUHAMMAD YOUSAF might be saying this in near future, "" ICL KA AHSAN HAI AUR $$$$ KI MADAD SE YAHAN PAHAUNCHA HOON", instead of " ALLAH KA KARAM HAI AUR QUAM KI DUAOUN SE YEH KAMYAABI MILI HAI". I still remember his first press conference after he broke the test runs record where he praised ALLAH and PAKISTAN so many times and now becomes a lotta for some $$$$ ! vow. what a sad story.

.....Mohammad Ali (an American ) was supported by all the Muslims in the whole world (specially Pakistanis) when he was boxing.....and all his life he played/boxed for one & only one thing....millions of $$$ - represented his country (USA) only ONCE in Olympics.

I don't think MOYO is lota, it is fans like us who have double standards!

It is all DNA's fault who announced the life ban on the players!

[Cryin Out Loud]

Originally Posted by jusarrived I wud play for india for free ,if I was good enuf.....working abroad & ditching your national team for more money is not the same ......& its not like MOYO has no money !

You would? For how long would you play for India for free? All your life?

It is easy for people to say they would play for India or Pakistan for free. I would like to see them first live one year of their life in social service of any kind, and then talk. I put in four years of my life working for less than $50 a month, in some back of beyond region in India- I could not take it beyond that and got out. Don't talk of doing things for free unless you know what you are saying. It isn't easy.

Personally, I am too old for this *****. Magnificent feelings of patriotism are as bad as blind hero worship. These cricketers served their country and were rewarded for it, as was their right. Now they want to move on, that is their right as well.

But they should also realize that every action has its consequence. They made their bed- now let them lie in it.

As for aspersions on their character, religion, lack of patriotic fervour - look in the mirror is all I have to say. Easy to criticize cricketing gods; not so easy to realize that they come from the same society as us and are but a reflection of who we are.

edit: sp

[Oxy]

Originally Posted by Cryin Out Loud As for aspersions on their character, religion, lack of patriotic fervour - look in the mirror is all I have to say. Easy to criticize cricketing gods; not so easy to realize that they come from the same society as us and are but a reflection of who we are.

Too late for the 'mummy/daddies' who dont know JACK about the real world and having to earn a living who have spouted some incredible BS in the last 2 days.

[Usman Chadda]

Originally Posted by W63L35 .....Mohammad Ali (an American ) was supported by all the Muslims in the whole world (specially Pakistanis) when he was boxing.....and all his life he played/boxed for one & only one thing....millions of $$$ - represented his country (USA) only ONCE in Olympics. I don't think MOYO is lota, it is fans like us who have double standards! It is all DNA's fault who announced the life ban on the players!

Why is it all the PCB's fault? Pakistan have three important assignments in the next 6 months. Non-stop cricket for 6 months. The ICL will probably launch around the same time as South Africa come to Pakistan. Now who is Yousuf going to play for? Pakistan or his ICL-team?! If he plays for Pakistan, what will the ICL be paying him for?! And even if the ICL doesnt launch until maybe December or Januray, that is still a big problem as we have Australia coming to Pakistan then

I think the ban was imposed to stop the players from missing these important tourneys/matches. We can't have half of our team sign for ICL and be playing for them, while the reserves battle it out against Australia, South Africa or India

[aussie-pak]

i live in australia, so this doenst apply to me


jokes aside fineleg does have a point

[sohaib17]

well my parents moved because of Terrorism and after completing my education i will be going back and hopefully soon

[jackal786]

Representing your country is not really an obligation. There is nothing unpatriotic about it. We are not the authorities to decide how much Yousuf should earn how much yousuf should not earn. PCB did not even wait for ICL announcements. They simply followed BCCI suit. They are acting as BCCI's puppets.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by aussie-pak i live in australia, so this doenst apply to me

I think the question was for Paksitanis living abroad

[aussie-pak]

Originally Posted by 12thMan I think the question was for Paksitanis living abroad

yeah i no, i was being sarcastic, he only mentioned UK and europe

[shahzad_1]

Originally Posted by jusarrived I wud play for india for free ,if I was good enuf.....working abroad & ditching your national team for more money is not the same ......& its not like MOYO has no money !

Thank you!

[Hash]

Originally Posted by W63L35 .....Mohammad Ali (an American ) was supported by all the Muslims in the whole world (specially Pakistanis) when he was boxing.....and all his life he played/boxed for one & only one thing....millions of $$$ - represented his country (USA) only ONCE in Olympics. I don't think MOYO is lota, it is fans like us who have double standards! It is all DNA's fault who announced the life ban on the players!

boxing is an individual sport.
cricket is a team sport

[shahzad_1]

Originally Posted by sohaib17 well my parents moved because of Terrorism and after completing my education i will be going back and hopefully soon

Hia Juzba-A-Janoon Tho Himut Na Haar

[Sultan Yusuf]

I don't think people realise the magnitude of yousuf's achievements last year. And to be dropped after that was a complete injustice! It's like dropping Bradman in 1930 or Viv in 1977 or Lara in 1994 or Ponting in the last couple of years. Dropping any of the them in any form of the game would be unthinkable.

I'm not surprised he's fuming. It's not about working harder and improving. He worked hard enough to have a record-breaking year, what more can he do? If he still cannot have some sort of security, then he is perfectly within his rights to think about making a living elsewhere....

Razzak and inzi are another kettle of fish. They knew they're not really in the frame anyway.

[shahzad_1]

Originally Posted by Fine leg All those who are criticizing Yousuf ... I'd just like to say that please don't act like hypocrites. Most of the guys here on this forum are British Pakistanis ... why don't you go and critize your parents first, who decided to leave Pakistan for money and better life. How many of you are enjoying better paying jobs in States or in Europe right now? .... why dont you go and work in Pakistan .... what is stopping you from doing that? Greed? If you work in a Pakistani company and do well in a very complicated project (Yousuf ... 1,788 test runs in 2006) but you are thrown out of a rather smaller project that you really wanted to be a part of for your resume and the reason given to you is that you are thought to be incompetent for that project ... what would you do? Get annoyed? Get disgusted? Change jobs? Treat it as a signal of things to come? Try to look for a new job to secure your future earnings? ===== Why are you guys using a different yardstick to measure Yousuf's loyalty than the yardstick you use to measure your own loyalty towards Pakistan. ===== Javed Miandad left the Pakistan team to be part of Kerry Packer but no one can doubt his love for Pakistan no matter what you think about him as a person. ... and to all those arm-chair critics and followers of the game who watch cricket while lying in your couch ... "a good player is a good player is a good player" (Ricky Ponting) i.e., a good player is a good player in every form of the game.

Nope! Not always true

If I had opportunity and was given offer in Pakistan, I would prefer Pakistan.

Well, above you mention why our parents moved to western countries, well they moved mostly for better education for their kids, and remember kids would go one day and invest in Pakistan.

Yousuf have totally different attention and interest.
So, I think we can not compare Yousuf with people living in UK.USA

I think, Yousuf wanted a attention from PCB, and wanted them to include him in 20/20

[SameerM]

Maybe this is the beginning of the Pak Playa Revolution

these acts might just force the pcb to increase salaries and therefore ATTRACT a larger pool of players..

cud b a silver lining

[shahzad_1]

Originally Posted by Naved I don't think people realise the magnitude of yousuf's achievements last year. And to be dropped after that was a complete injustice! It's like dropping Bradman in 1930 or Viv in 1977 or Lara in 1994 or Ponting in the last couple of years. Dropping any of the them in any form of the game would be unthinkable. I'm not surprised he's fuming. It's not about working harder and improving. He worked hard enough to have a record-breaking year, what more can he do? If he still cannot have some sort of security, then he is perfectly within his rights to think about making a living elsewhere.... Razzak and inzi are another kettle of fish. They knew they're not really in the frame anyway.

He is not suited for 20/20

No wonder, why we don't get to have suitable squad for 20/20

Players like Yousuf start blackmailing PCB.

[Boys_played_well]

Originally Posted by jusarrived I wud play for india for free ,if I was good enuf.....working abroad & ditching your national team for more money is not the same ......& its not like MOYO has no money !

This is what you say sitting on the outside. If you were to become a cricketer, I am sure your opinion would change.

No one will do anything for free.

[farhan]

shahzad do you play for midwest cricket league?

[Monsee]

In my opinion, Malik/Selectors/PCB were wrong in the case of dropping MoYo to begin with because he is a pretty decent close fielder...I still remember a few close run outs he inflicted in a couple of ODIs in India (2004-05 series); on both occasions those run outs turned the game on it's head!

Off course his inside out shots alone (especially on the off side) warrant his selection in any limited overs format...not to forget he is our best batsman and probably one of the best ODI players in the World; definitely in the top 10 Best ODI players right now!

on his decision to join ICL, I have mixed feelings and will not say anything definitely until I have found out all the details because I don't believe most of what is printed in the press these days

[ammarz]

Originally Posted by Monsee In my opinion, Malik/Selectors/PCB were wrong in the case of dropping MoYo to begin with because he is a pretty decent close fielder...I still remember a few close run outs he inflicted in a couple of ODIs in India (2004-05 series); on both occasions those run outs turned the game on it's head! Off course his inside out shots alone (especially on the off side) warrant his selection in any limited overs format...not to forget he is our best batsman and probably one of the best ODI players in the World; definitely in the top 10 Best ODI players right now! on his decision to join ICL, I have mixed feelings and will not say anything definitely until I have found out all the details because I don't believe most of what is printed in the press these days

agree with you on that. but it still leaves a bitter taste in the mouth realizing that he would join ICL, just to get back at PCB or who ever. That is a bit childish, no one really cares about 20/20 much anyways. He would be remembered for his exploits in the longer version of the game anyways, so why bother.

[jackal786]

Originally Posted by Boys_played_well This is what you say sitting on the outside. If you were to become a cricketer, I am sure your opinion would change. No one will do anything for free.

Exactly my thoughts.. if i were president.. i would do this i would do that.. if i were doctor i would do this... this talks are nice for oratory contests! Unless you really put yourself in the shoes of the player himself you can't really pass judgement.

[shahzad_1]

Originally Posted by farhan shahzad do you play for midwest cricket league?

Nope!

I use to play for Bears (Cricket team out of Chicago) while ago, but anymore.

[Oxy]

I notice quite a few posters have started to call him 'Youhana' again in other threads. Sums them up nicely - and they will have to answer for that no doubt

[shahzad_1]

Originally Posted by Oxy I notice quite a few posters have started to call him 'Youhana' again in other threads. Sums them up nicely - and they will have to answer for that no doubt

Thats sad!

Criticize his actions, not his faith.

Calling him Youhana indirectly means he is not Muslim anymore?

[W63L35]

Originally Posted by Hash boxing is an individual sport. cricket is a team sport

Then whole India is going crazy over Sania Mirza for nothing!!
Ignorant Indian fans...what do they know??? They can't even differentiate between team and individual sport!

Are we good or what.....at making new/own rules on the fly!!

[Hash]

Originally Posted by W63L35 Then whole India is going crazy over Sania Mirza for nothing!! Ignorant Indian fans...what do they know??? They can't even differentiate between team and individual sport! Are we good or what.....at making new/own rules on the fly!!

Well there is nothing wrong with supporting your fellow countryperson

But when Mohammad Ali won titles it said 'Mohammad Ali', not 'USA'. If Sania MIrza was to win a title it would say 'Sania Mirza' on the trophy, not 'india'.

That is the difference between an individual sport and a team sport. In individual sports you are representing yourself, but in a team sport you are representing your country.

[skr30]

Originally Posted by W63L35 .....Mohammad Ali (an American ) was supported by all the Muslims in the whole world (specially Pakistanis) when he was boxing.....and all his life he played/boxed for one & only one thing....millions of $$$ - represented his country (USA) only ONCE in Olympics.

Mohammad Ali was not a big fan of US policies - he even went to jail for ignoring the draft, so its not a surprise he represented the USA only once.
The thing about Yousuf is that I'm not convinced he would have stayed even if he had been selected for the 20-20.

[king_of_kings_ali]

Why call him Youhana?? Because he has joined the ICL??? Oh please

Give the guy a break.

[lahori@denmark]

why shld we bring national duity when it comes to cricketrs, 99.9% of pakistanis are crupt, throwing garbage on streets, every kind of crime is hapending, all govn departments(police,wapada,railway,custom etc) are full of corruption. school system is in the worst form compare to other countries. many(those i know) students, young guys want an oppertunity to fly abroad and get rid of pakistan, hockey and other team players are treated like trash, lets not bring the mullahs and polition and our beloved army into this thread else it ll be locked..why cricketer has to be loyale, pakdaman etc etc all yusuf is doing is grabing an opprotunity to make some money, why shld it be a propblem for pcb, if he is pakistani and better to play cricket then whats wrong to selecet him for country, all they shld do is not to pay him with contract only pay him match by match

[cricketisit]

********. national duty my ass. this is a sport, and now its commerciliazesd, so whoever pays more money is going to get the players. Simple. And they all said they are available for pakistan team.

If anyone of u on this forum or the indian forum were offered more moeny, u would leave in a heart beat. Heck indians wont even call their families before they leave. I have seen people from india dying to leave even its for a worse job abroad

[W63L35]

Originally Posted by cricketisit ********. national duty my ass. this is a sport, and now its commerciliazesd, so whoever pays more money is going to get the players. Simple. And they all said they are available for pakistan team.

............ shhhhhh, you may have already offended Hash!

[Hash]

Originally Posted by W63L35 ............ shhhhhh, you may have already offended Hash!

saab I have already abliterated just about every point you have made in this ICL discussion so I suggest you call it a day

[W63L35]

Originally Posted by skr30 Mohammad Ali was not a big fan of US policies - he even went to jail for ignoring the draft, so its not a surprise he represented the USA only once. The thing about Yousuf is that I'm not convinced he would have stayed even if he had been selected for the 20-20.

I wonder why these idiots have country name next to each player on this official Tennis ranking below.......!! What do these guys know about team vs individual sports??

Would you care to look at # 28?
http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/2...es_numeric.asp

[Hash]

davis cup and the women's version

[W63L35]

Originally Posted by Hash davis cup and the women's version

meaning??????

What I "tried" to say was that in WTA (Women Singles) ranking has country mentioned RIGHT next to their name? While you kept saying that country does not matter in individual sports.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by W63L35 meaning?????? What I "tried" to say was that in WTA (Women Singles) ranking has country mentioned RIGHT next to their name? While you kept saying that country does not matter in individual sports.

I didn't say 'country does not matter'. I said in individual sports you are basically playing for yourself and not for your country (apart from one or two competitions in tennis like the Davis Cup and the Federation Cup I think it's called for women).

If you ever go to London go and check out the wimbledon trophy replica at the tennis museum. Where it has the names of the winners engraved, it only has their names, not their country. Roger Federer won wimbledon this year, not Switzerland. Understand?

Anyway, this is not relevent to this thread and to be honest I'm getting a bit bored of discussing the same old crap with you over and over again. It's like, I keep knocking you out but you keep coming back for more

Off to bed, have to be up in 6 hours.

[W63L35]

Originally Posted by Hash saab I have already abliterated just about every point you have made in this ICL discussion so I suggest you call it a day

"Obliterated"......thats what you think.....!!

I'll call it day.....but one last time,...lets look at what you have said and defined - just playing by your OWN rules/definitions;
1) Cricketer perform a "national service" when they beat the crap out of a leather ball with a bat .
I think, quite a few people have "Obliterated" that idea!
2) PCB in NOT running the team like a business/company.
3) You hate other people making a lot of money - even if it by any fair means.
4) You agree that Yousaf has RIGHT to play for ICL but STILL criticize him anyways for kick DNA's life ban in the butt!!!
5) Team sports and individual sport are different when it come to earning money.
6) DNA has done nothing wrong by announcing a life ban on the players joining ICL. You AGREE with DNA on this life ban issue.

......to list a few. Just read them over see if they make sense??

As far as being "Obliterated" is concerned, just read PP, more and more PPers are being vocal and coming out of the closet to support MOYO's decison....!! I wonder who's losing the ground here or being "Obliterated" here. Do I need to list the examples???

P.S. Let me make another prediction.....this idiot DNA after announcing life ban on MOYO, will eat his words/crow when he will LIFT that stupid ban and welcome MOYO with open arms after (or even before) ICL folds......well, only if Musharraf (or the next government) does not kick DNA out of PCB before that!! I can bet a nice dinner in Islamabad at the restaurant of your choice on that?

[Hash]

Originally Posted by W63L35 "Obliterated"......thats what you think.....!! I'll call it day.....but one last time,...lets look at what you have said and defined - just playing by your OWN rules/definitions; 1) Cricketer perform a "national service" when they beat the crap out of a leather ball with a bat . I think, quite a few people have "Obliterated" that idea! 2) PCB in NOT running the team like a business/company. 3) You hate other people making a lot of money - even if it by any fair means. 4) You agree that Yousaf has RIGHT to play for ICL but STILL criticize him anyways for kick DNA's life ban in the butt!!! 5) Team sports and individual sport are different when it come to earning money. 6) DNA has done nothing wrong by announcing a life ban on the players joining ICL. You AGREE with DNA on this life ban issue. ......to list a few. Just read them over see if they make sense?? As far as being "Obliterated" is concerned, just read PP, more and more PPers are being vocal and coming out of the closet to support MOYO's decison....!! I wonder who's losing the ground here or being "Obliterated" here. Do I need to list the examples???

I knew you wouldn't take long so I waited A blatent misrepresentation of what was discussed and said by me.....something which you seem to be very good at. Though yes, I DO agree with the life ban if Yousuf goes to the ICL and I'm not too sure if I'd even want him to play if he came begging and apologising.

Anyway, the threads are ALL there for EVERYONE to see and judge for themselves

Originally Posted by W63L35 P.S. Let me make another prediction.....this idiot DNA after announcing life ban on MOYO, will eat his words/crow when he will LIFT that stupid ban and welcome MOYO with open arms after (or even before) ICL folds......well, only if Musharraf (or the next government) does not kick DNA out of PCB before that!! I can bet a nice dinner in Islamabad at the restaurant of your choice on that?

I actually agree with this. I think Yousuf will either change his mind having realised what an idiotic decision he has made or the PCB will backtrack......but I hope they don't.

[Sheikh]

Go to sleep Hash, you're wasting your time; He's been obliterated.

[W63L35]

Originally Posted by Hash I knew you wouldn't take long so I waited

...shhhhh, I am at work and supposed to be working!

Originally Posted by Hash A blatent misrepresentation of what was discussed and said by me.....something which you seem to be very good at.

I can post your posts here...if you like!

Originally Posted by Hash Though yes, I DO agree with the life ban if Yousuf goes to the ICL and I'm not too sure if I'd even want him to play if he came begging and apologising.

Again...you are twisting the fact. Keep in mind, LIFE BAN ANNOUNCEMENT from idiot DNA came BEFORE Yousaf joining ICL. So does that change your mind?? Don't you think, DNA was an A$$hole by announcing BEFORE anyother board (besides BCCI) or ICC took ANY stance on the players joining ICL?

As far as begging/apologizing is concerned, there is already a statement from PCB that DNA is going to talk to MOYO and beg him to stay!! Any comments there??

Originally Posted by Hash Anyway, the threads are ALL there for EVERYONE to see and judge for themselves

Finally.....I agree with something you said!

Originally Posted by Hash I actually agree with this. I think Yousuf will either change his mind having realised what an idiotic decision he has made or the PCB will backtrack......but I hope they don't.

"PCB will backtrack"....in other words you DO think/agree that PCB will realize that they made stupid/idiotic decision by announcing life ban waaaay before ICC or any other board did!
I knew, I could convince you!! Welcome aboard!!!

[Blistering Barnacle]

Hash, I don't think you have obliterated anything. You've just expressed your opinion - such as the players get "more than enough" money already. People can disagree with your opinion without having their own arguments "obliterated". What you, with self-admitted socialist tendencies, consider more than enough is just your opinion.

This idea of Yousuf being some kind of traitor for signing with the ICL is really ridiculous, as are those saying they would play for free for their country.

Both notions are ridiculous, but the second one particularly so. It's as if they would get a chance to feature in an ODI and then go back to their current jobs or whatever a few days later after getting a duck with the bat and hit for 6 sixes in an over. Sure, anyone would play for free in that case.

But a professional cricketer playing for free? What a laugh!

[skr30]

Originally Posted by W63L35 I wonder why these idiots have country name next to each player on this official Tennis ranking below.......!! What do these guys know about team vs individual sports??

an interesting debate going on here about this.

http://sports-law.blogspot.com/2007/...-and-love.html

Like the writer said when they start singing the Swisss anthem Federer wins a cup, your point will be valid. At the moment its just fans associating themselves with the players based on a common country.
If the country was being represented there would have been limits on number of players from one country, and there would be no reason to hold the Davis cup.

[Invictus]

Let me ask you this then W63L35. If it has nothing to do with nationalistic tendencies then why do you follow Pakistan and not India? Why W63L35, isnt that the win loose ratio for Pakistan and India? If all Yousuf is doing is a "job" and he can go to the highest bidder then why follow Pakistan Team?
Do you honestly follow individuals in cricket? Its a team sport played at the international level. So you are representing your nation. Tennis and Boxing are sports where you get to inetrnational level not based upon which country you are from but your own individual record. Fredrer represents Fredrer not Spain or France or Italy, he could move to Thailand and become a Thai citizen and nothing would change for his Tennis career.

[Bobaran]

Originally Posted by Boys_played_well A lot of people are making the mistake of considering playing for Pakistan "national duty". These guys are cricketers!! not soldiers who are deserting their country to fight for another country because of more money. Cricketers are professionals like anyone else, and will go where there is more money. Let's stop being foolish and think cricketers are morally obligated to serve the country and what not. If cricketers should serve the country, so should the businessmen, IT professionals, bankers, social workers amongst us who are residing abroad and contributing to a foreign economy. YES, it would be nice if Yousuf etc played for the Pakistan team, but then again, they are not the ones who don't want to play - the stupid PCB won't let them because of their nonsensical policies. Don't hate the player hate the game.

Exactly. They have every right to join the ICL if they want to make some extra money.

[Sheikh]

Originally Posted by Invictus Let me ask you this then W63L35. If it has nothing to do with nationalistic tendencies then why do you follow Pakistan and not India? Why W63L35, isnt that the win loose ratio for Pakistan and India? If all Yousuf is doing is a "job" and he can go to the highest bidder then why follow Pakistan Team? Do you honestly follow individuals in cricket? Its a team sport played at the international level. So you are representing your nation. Tennis and Boxing are sports where you get to inetrnational level not based upon which country you are from but your own individual record. Fredrer represents Fredrer not Spain or France or Italy, he could move to Thailand and become a Thai citizen and nothing would change for his Tennis career.

Well said Invictus. Well said indeed.

[W63L35]

Originally Posted by Invictus Let me ask you this then W63L35. If it has nothing to do with nationalistic tendencies then why do you follow Pakistan and not India? Why W63L35, isnt that the win loose ratio for Pakistan and India? If all Yousuf is doing is a "job" and he can go to the highest bidder then why follow Pakistan Team?

Seems like you did not read all my posts on this subject. I was just refuting the comment made by Hash......when he said that cricketer perform a "National Service" by playing for team put together by some jokers appointed by DNA/PCB.
Here is what he said;
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...59&postcount=6

If "nationalism" in Cricket was so important then why Kevin Petersen in playing for England??? Why Saqlain is considering playing for England?? Why Keppler Wessels moved to South Africa after playing for Australia for years?

Yes, I do love the game of cricket and I do follow the team labled "Pakistan XI"...but I strong disagree with the argument that these cricketer perform any type of national service.....and W63L35 is just there have fun with my Indian friends!

Originally Posted by Invictus Do you honestly follow individuals in cricket? Its a team sport played at the international level. So you are representing your nation.

I attended a university in small town USA where people are CRAZY about college football. There is NO national football team in USA but still in this town of 220,000 people, every single ticket of a 75,000 stadium has been sold for the last 20 years. Where is the nationalism in this sport for these fans? This team's fans support their college teams waaaaay better and stronger than we can ever imagine of supporting Pakistan's "national" team. If we are so big of fan, then why our stadiums are so empty when Pakistan plays? Even Indians are bigger fans than us....at least they fill up the stadiums!

For fans to support a sports team, you just need a label and our label happens to be "Pakistan XI"......!!

Originally Posted by Invictus Tennis and Boxing are sports where you get to inetrnational level not based upon which country you are from but your own individual record. Fredrer represents Fredrer not Spain or France or Italy, he could move to Thailand and become a Thai citizen and nothing would change for his Tennis career.

...but...when ever he will play TV, media will put Thailand in front of his name.

[W63L35]

Originally Posted by Blistering Barnacle Hash, I don't think you have obliterated anything. You've just expressed your opinion - such as the players get "more than enough" money already. People can disagree with your opinion without having their own arguments "obliterated". What you, with self-admitted socialist tendencies, consider more than enough is just your opinion. This idea of Yousuf being some kind of traitor for signing with the ICL is really ridiculous, as are those saying they would play for free for their country. Both notions are ridiculous, but the second one particularly so. It's as if they would get a chance to feature in an ODI and then go back to their current jobs or whatever a few days later after getting a duck with the bat and hit for 6 sixes in an over. Sure, anyone would play for free in that case. But a professional cricketer playing for free? What a laugh!

....what did I say Hash?? Your arguments are out these to see for the wise ones!!

[Sultan Yusuf]

Hash, the individual sports do have a national streak. Do you really think British fans would support mediocre performers like Henman and Frank Bruno if they weren't British?


If Henman ever won wimbledon - why would it be so significant? A BRITISH player winning Wimbledon.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by Naved Hash, the individual sports do have a national streak. Do you really think British fans would support mediocre performers like Henman and Frank Bruno if they weren't British? If Henman ever won wimbledon - why would it be so significant? A BRITISH player winning Wimbledon.

Naved, people normally support others who they have something in common with. For example, I would love it if Aisam ul Haq did well at tennis. Why? He is a Pakistani and I am a Pakistani, simple.

My point was, and I made it pretty clear earlier, that in individual sports, you are not representing your country, you are representing yourself. For example, when Roger Federer wins Wimbledon, who is it that wins Wimbledon? Is it Switzerland or is it Roger Federer? It's Roger Federer!

For that reason you cannot compare a team sport with an individual sport.

And don't take W63L35 seriesly, he doesn't even think international cricketers are representing their country! And he doesn't think there is any difference between representing your country and working for Microsoft!

[Hash]

Originally Posted by Blistering Barnacle Hash, I don't think you have obliterated anything. You've just expressed your opinion - such as the players get "more than enough" money already. People can disagree with your opinion without having their own arguments "obliterated". What you, with self-admitted socialist tendencies, consider more than enough is just your opinion. This idea of Yousuf being some kind of traitor for signing with the ICL is really ridiculous, as are those saying they would play for free for their country. Both notions are ridiculous, but the second one particularly so. It's as if they would get a chance to feature in an ODI and then go back to their current jobs or whatever a few days later after getting a duck with the bat and hit for 6 sixes in an over. Sure, anyone would play for free in that case. But a professional cricketer playing for free? What a laugh!

I never said players should play for free. I said on a number of occassions that they should be well looked after. But while W63L35 believes that every single demand a player makes should be adhered to by the PCB otherwise there is nothing wrong with them going elsewhere (and they are totally above criticism if they do), I don't believe that!

Yousuf was very well looked after. In his record breaking year he got 5 million rupees all together which is close to $100,000 (only in 'bonuses', not including his monthly retainer, match fees and endoresments).

He gets dropped from the least important tournament on the cricketing calender, (remember, this is the FIRST TIME in his ENTIRE CAREER that he has been dropped.....world stars all over the cricketing world have been dropped, dropped from far more important tournaments than this) and he throws a tantrum and runs off crying to the ICL. He HAS let the Pakistan team down. And he has raised several question marks about his attitude and commitment towards Pakistan cricket. I never called him a 'traitor' but I never want to see him play for Pakistan ever again.