The coffee smells horrible!

[dirk diggler]

Like many others, I too was convinced that our test team deservedly moved in the upper eshelons of the cricketing fraternity. Even if results didn't always go our way, we lived in the comfortable knowledge that our team had an abundance of talent at its disposal and on any given day we could live the best of them. However, the disheartening realisation has now sunk in that we are a 3rd tier test nation.

The talent has dissipated and we are now finding it very difficult (even in our own backyard) to punch above our weight. The likes of AUS, SA, IND, ENG & SL are out of our test league.

If there are any PPers out there who have the ear of the PCB, perhaps you could convince them that our future tests programme should consist entirely of 5 match test series aginst WI, Zim, BD and NZ (although i fear BD & NZ would probably trouble us too). Once our confidence is restored (in 5 years or so) we may have re-attained a sufficiently competent test match standard to challenge the big guns again.

I've woken up and smelled the coffee...and it ain't nice

[iZeeshan]

India and England are definetely NOT out of our league!

[Wasim_Waqar]

Excuse me, but exactly HOW are SA out of our league? We woulda won in SA but for no Akhtar and Gul. We just needed one of them to win. in England, we woulda taken care of them, no problem with a fit team.

I just believe the 20-20 has had a bad effect on our batters, and our stinking negative tactics are to blame.

[JustAnotherFan]

Originally Posted by Hassan Mahmood Excuse me, but exactly HOW are SA out of our league?

Well, in the past year SA has won around 75% of internationals played between the two countries. I am including the current test as it is a forgone conclusion.

[Wasim_Waqar]

JAF...I have an extremely high respect for your team, and used to rate them extremely highly in tests and ODIs. I don't rate them anywhere nearly as highly in tests although very highly in ODIs.

I believe that this series is more due to us playin rubbish.

In ODIs, you are up there, defnitely.

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by Hassan Mahmood JAF...I have an extremely high respect for your team, and used to rate them extremely highly in tests and ODIs. I don't rate them anywhere nearly as highly in tests although very highly in ODIs. I believe that this series is more due to us playin rubbish. In ODIs, you are up there, defnitely.

Hassan bhai, convince me that we'll be playing sublime test cricket vs IND & AUS...

[Wasim_Waqar]

Dirk Diggler,

Much depends on how badly we want it. If we don't want it, we're gonna get hammered in the next 2 series.

If we play our full team with the enthusiasm shown in 20-20, we can win both series.

[sportacus]

it is strange but a few years ago with Shoaib Akhtar leading our bowling attack Pakistan bowling attack could always make up for deficiency of Pakistan batting and we won a major series against an England team who had just beaten Australia in the Ashes

frankly we are a one man team and though Pakistan youngsters are talented they are let down by the poor domestic system

it shows how bad things have got when people acclaim an Indian style medium pacer as being a fitting leader of a Pakistan 'pace' attack

[hellopak]

Originally Posted by Hassan Mahmood Excuse me, but exactly HOW are SA out of our league? We woulda won in SA but for no Akhtar and Gul. We just needed one of them to win. in England, we woulda taken care of them, no problem with a fit team. I just believe the 20-20 has had a bad effect on our batters, and our stinking negative tactics are to blame.

When you rank a team you don't use IF and BUTs. Then you could say if we had Saeed Anwar and Aamer Suhail as opener, if we had Wasim and Waqar. Team mean 11 players, so if two are not fit then you should have their replacement.

[deviously~fading~away]

We beated SL in SL, beated Eng at home, drew vs Ind in Ind & beat Ind at home. Yea we are doomed!

[TaZ]

Pakistan just didn't show up for this test series. I've not seen such abject surrender from the team ina long time. Negative 2 spinner tactics were always going to backfire especially when relying on winning the toss. Pace is our strength, let's get back to it.

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by deviously~fading~away We beated SL in SL, beated Eng at home, drew vs Ind in Ind & beat Ind at home. Yea we are doomed!

"Jane kaha gaye woh din, sajdey kiye thay yaar ne"

[the_game]

Originally Posted by Hassan Mahmood JAF...I have an extremely high respect for your team, and used to rate them extremely highly in tests and ODIs. I don't rate them anywhere nearly as highly in tests although very highly in ODIs. I believe that this series is more due to us playin rubbish. In ODIs, you are up there, defnitely.

Amen. Only in the Cronje era have I respected the South African test side (and that was due to presence of bowlers like Donald and Pollock and batsmen like Gary Kirsten in their prime). Their test team is quite crap now (and do I need to talk about their third-rate one-dimensional bowling attack again?). It's just that we are playing even more crappy cricket than they are.

[PlanetPakistan]

Originally Posted by the_game Amen. Only in the Cronje era have I respected the South African test side (and that was due to presence of bowlers like Donald and Pollock and batsmen like Gary Kirsten in their prime). Their test team is quite crap now (and do I need to talk about their third-rate one-dimensional bowling attack again?). It's just that we are playing even more crappy cricket than they are.

that makes me feel even worse about the PAK team

[12thMan]

If the team doesn't perform you cannot win. If Pakistan thinks we are like Sri Lanka that Murali (Akhtar for some) has to be there to win than 2 test series are good. There was full team when Paksitan went to Australia and we got beat by innings and probably 8-9 wickets in other matches. India won the series for the first time in Pakistan by innings defeats. One player doesn't make a difference and should not make a difference otherwise you don't have a good team.

Batting and fielding doesn't click then you cannot win even if bowlers win matches. And for fielding you don't need super fit athletes (like diving to save a boundry) but need people who can catch the ball. Even in WI tour I will say it was fielding first who dropped Lara 3 times and that piled up runs and puts pressure on batting.

4 bowlers don't work and even after Ashes 2005, Australia wanted to change their 4 bowler selection and they started bringing Symonds and Watson.

Now if Akhtar was in the team there was no guarantee that he will take wickets. He might perform better than Asif or Gul but then it all becomes hypothetical. So how many overs can he bowl if there were four bowlers. Afridi and/or Razzaq were selected in team for some reason. I will accept that they might not be specialists but you need an bowler to give rests or deal with injuries.

Take the loss and say well played South Africa and bad planning and performance by Pakistan.

[saffer]

I don't mind if people don't rate the South African side or like them . But as individuals man for man they are the second best side out there (going on batting and bowling averages) . We struggled for a few years , but it looks like we're right on top again and will quickly after this series move up the rankings to where we have always been and bellong .

With that said I will be supporting Pakistan all the way against the spoilt indian multi millionaires ....and I don't expect them to lie down and die so easily in that series .

[Bobaran]

The only teams out of our league are SA and Aus. India and England are definitely NOT out of our league, and I know we are better teams than them. And for some reason we do well against SL, and we have shown in the series after the world cup, and in the Twenty20, that we can beat them.

[Boys_played_well]

Guys, SA are a quality team. It is true that we didn't show up in this series, but SA have a quality batting line up. Kallis, Smith, AB, Gibbs are formidable, and Boucher farms the tail well. The bowling is one dimensional, but on pitches in SA, Australia, NZ and England it is a handful. Not many non-Asian attacks are useful in the subcontinent anyway, and this attack hasn't done badly on this tour.

It's too bad we sucked in this series, I think we would have fought tooth and nail with SA.

I also don't think we are doomed! Sri Lanka and India are very much on even keel. Australia, England and South Africa are the upper echelon for me at the moment, followed by the three asian teams. I don't rate NZ, never have. They will win the odd series but they just don't have the talent to compete on an ongoing basis. The less said about WI the better

[PlanetPakistan]

PAK rely too much on individual brilliance. It's almost as if they are waiting for one or two of the players in the team to step up and snatch the match from the opponent...Kaneria and Shaoib did it at Multan vs ENG, Kami did it vs IND and Asif did against Lanka.

[Bobaran]

Originally Posted by PlanetPakistan PAK rely too much on individual brilliance. It's almost as if they are waiting for one or two of the players in the team to step up and snatch the match from the opponent...Kaneria and Shaoib did it at Multan vs ENG, Kami did it vs IND and Asif did against Lanka.

Yeah that's a good point, we need to get more consistency in the team. I always find myself expecting Yousuf or Younis to miraculously make a century and save the match.

[Zechariah]

Switch the brand

[JustAnotherFan]

Originally Posted by the_game Amen. Only in the Cronje era have I respected the South African test side (and that was due to presence of bowlers like Donald and Pollock and batsmen like Gary Kirsten in their prime). Their test team is quite crap now (and do I need to talk about their third-rate one-dimensional bowling attack again?). It's just that we are playing even more crappy cricket than they are.

Don't be one-eyed all your life. Here is following test record between the countries over past 5 years. SA is totally dominant. SA has won 5 tests, Pakistan 2 and 1 drawn. SA will probably win the current test, so make that 6 to 2.

Pakistan in SA in 2002/2003. SA destroyed Pakistan in both tests. SA beat Pakistan by 10 wickets. SA beat Pakistan by an innings and 142 runs.

SA in Pakistan in 2003. Pakistan beat South Africa by 8 wickets and other match draw.

Pakistan in SA in 2007. South Africa won by 7 wickets. Pakistan won by 5 wickets. South Africa won by 5 wickets.

SA in Pakistan in 2007. South Africa won by 160 runs. South Africa win by xx runs again.

So seriously were is the crap team? How often do teams come to the continent and guys like Harris beat Pakistan at their own ball game. Gotcha.

[Savak]

I must admit the South Africans have improved their game against Spin tremendously. We had the wrong strategy. The spinning strategy failed against England in 2000 and it failed again. We should always use pace as our weapon. People talk about the quality of the SA batting while its true YK, MY, Inzamam are no less and they have failed our country. Danish Kaneria needs to be shown the door it is insulting for our premiere spinner to be hit all over the park and to be played with such disconsolate ease on a pitch which was meant to aid him.

[saffer]

Yes....South Africans have known we have improved against spin for a long time already . Pakistan really should have done their homework better . In fact Murali of Sri Lanka himself even said that "South Africans can't play spin" was now a myth and that we were good players of spin .

[Blistering Barnacle]

SA is a solid team with a good captain and good planning.

Pak vs. SA could have been a very competitive series, but our captaincy, selection and planning has been very poor imo.

I rate the SA team quite highly btw. They'd be competitive against any team besides Aus.

Pak has just been absolute crap in this series and made it look easy for SA.

[TaZ]

Before the series, you only had to look at out only defeat at "fortress Karachi"... v eng in 2000 and SA. Moin Khan's Pak lost to england playing on "spinning tracks", nullifying our pacers and with a team packed with spinners as england were supposedly bad at playing spin... and predictably lost. They didnt learn the lesson by doing the same in the first test and then amazingly tried the same strategy in this test. This is poorest test cricket ive seen Pak play in a long long time