Islam's Silent Moderates

[12thMan]

Not unless the girl can provide 85 witnesses that will say that the guy in fact, was with her out of his own free will. Otherwise, the law assumes that the girl kidnapped the guy and paraded him in public against his wishes - therefore, only she gets lashed.

The male companion got the same punishment that she got originally. And both were kidnapped and raped

[Momo]

Originally Posted by filosofee Why should I research her?

I am afraid it is your duty to research her. Her, and everybody else you quote/use to farther your argument. The trouble is that most of us spend too much time writing and arguing about things we have no idea about, and too little researching. It should be the other way around.

My advice is to be very careful of the western media. The so-called pillars of journalism (BBC, CNN and all other so called "mainstream" news sources not to mention Fox) almost always have hidden agendas and this trick of finding a "muslim" like Hirsi and getting her to go on a crusade on muslims is an old one.

As for the perceived botched-up justice done in Saudi Arabia, lets not be naive and lets not over-simplify what is a complex situation. Compare Saudi Arabia with say, Wasington DC, and you will find out that there is less crime in Saudi Arabia in a year than there is in Wash in a week. True, occasionally miscarriage of justice will surely happen (I am not sure about this case though), but you think UK or USA are above such blemishes? Human beings can never be perfect and so sometimes these things will happen. What is important though is, how does the bigger picture look. And Saudi Arabia is one of the safest, most crime, drug, and gay-free countries in the world. You cant grudge the "mullahs" this fact.

Yes, if that lady was indeed denied justice, it would have been very hard for the poor soul. But these things happen. At the cost of a few such cases, the society at large benefits because when strict laws are enforced, it takes special courage to go out and do something that can cost a person his hand or leg.

Women living in western societies (and even in Pakistan now) cringe when the subject of undesirability of "mingling" between the sexes is raised. They someow feel that it is discrimination against them, or some kind of a conspiracy against women. I fail to understand this fear. Thats because men are equally discouraged to be in a one-to-one situation with a woman. This is no conspiracy, merely a means to safeguard against undesirable complications. And this in no way bars women from working etc. Its not about what you think or I think. Its what Allah says that is important. And let me tell you the "bad" news: Mingling between sexes is not allowed in Islam. You can work with men, you can go ride a tube with men, you can go watch a match with men present, but you are not supposed to be alone with a man in a secluded place, period. You dont like it? Its too bad. But that is how it is. An analogy will be if I started saying that "I dont think praying is compulsory in Islam". The answer would be, it doesnt matter what I think. What matters is what Allah says.

These things sound foreign to us, after long years in societies where mingling etc is considered normal. But we are the ones who chose to live in such places. And we are the ones who chose to keep Islam as our religion (when we grew up and could decide for ourselves). We do a great disservice to ourselves (not to Islam) when we select and choose things from Islam we "think" are correct and discard things we "think" are out of date/not important/incorrect.

I appologize if any of my comments sound overly harsh but I assure you it was not intended. Its just that chopping and choosing has made us such poor muslims and such a confused lot that is stuck in an uncomfortable, in-between position. We would do ourselves a big favour by either accepting Islam as a full package or else, discarding it altogether and go our merry way. Because as it is, neither Islam is benefitting anything from the likes of us, nor we from it, which is a pity.

[down4whatever]

"by ayaan hirsi ali"

lol

[Joseph K.]

Originally Posted by down4whatever "by ayaan hirsi ali" lol

Just checked my catalogue of audio books. I have a copy of 'Infidel' stashed away somewhere. Will hear it some day.

[filosofee]

Originally Posted by isr Reproduced below is my first post on this thread. Your post above was number ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY SIX.

Below is the third post in this thread, on page 1, and my first comment on the matter:

This is what truly boils my blood, one law for women and one law for men in a, supposedly, Muslim country. Was the man, with whom she was "mingling" tried and found guilty of mingledom, if not why not? Hypocritical, no common-sense judges; if she had been their daughter then? And, will the US and the UK, countries who fully support and back Saudia Arabia (need for oil holding back any disgust I'll bet), now give this Quatif girl sanctuary? The disregard for women, in the 21st century, completely sickens me. Yes, where are the voices? You don't have to be a 'moderate' but you do have to be HUMAN.

Expect me to take your rabid rantings seriously isr? Not likely.


Momo: my advice to you is read my posts, for instance the one above, where have "Her, and everybody else you quote/use to farther your argument."? I'll spend my time researching whomsoever I wish not whom you dictate.

[legslip]

Originally Posted by filosofee Below is the third post in this thread, on page 1, and my first comment on the matter: Expect me to take your rabid rantings seriously isr? Not likely. Momo: my advice to you is read my posts, for instance the one above, where have "Her, and everybody else you quote/use to farther your argument."? I'll spend my time researching whomsoever I wish not whom you dictate.

Hello filosofee

Did you use to post on the Channel 4 cricket forum? Your captivating signature seems very familiar.

btw why did they close down all of a sudden?

[alghazzali]

Some of the stuff on this thread about Islamic brutality. Most of you have a mental blocakde against muslim views, so read George Orwell
,1984.

Read it and then talk. Many here have so much to say with so little knowledge. I don't think any comments here should be used as reference and taken with a pinch of salt. This is a Cricket Forum, with comments being made in a section called Time Pass. Enjoy yourselves.