Saudis clamp down on Valentine's Day

[Shah]

Is there much of a difference between the Saudis and the Taliban?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7239005.stm
Religious police in Saudi Arabia are banning the sale of Valentine's Day gifts including red roses, a local newspaper has reported. The Saudi Gazette quoted shop workers as saying that officials had warned them to remove all red items including flowers and wrapping paper.

Black market prices for roses were already rising, the paper said. Saudi authorities consider Valentine's Day, along with a host of other annual celebrations, as un-Islamic.

In addition to the prohibition on celebrating non-Islamic festivals, the authorities consider Valentine's Day as encouraging relations between men and women outside wedlock - punishable by law in the conservative kingdom. The Saudi Gazette reported that some people placed orders with florists days or weeks before Valentine's Day in anticipation of the ban, which is a regular occurrence. "Sometimes we deliver the bouquets in the middle of the night or early morning, to avoid suspicion," one florist said. Others were planning to travel to the more religiously liberal neighbouring countries, Bahrain or the United Arab Emirates, to celebrate.

Saudi Arabian authorities impose a strict Islamic code that prevents men and women from mixing.

[161]

lol ... utter stupidity ..

btw ... IIRC they tried to do the same in India a few years back..

[JustAnotherFan]

Originally Posted by kashif77 lol ... utter stupidity .. btw ... IIRC they tried to do the same in India a few years back..

I think I want to live in Saudi Arabia. Sounds like a fun place.

Maybe I should send some blow-up dolls there to cheer everyone up. They would probably use them as target practise.

[lahori]

As much as it is frustrating to hear these things, I have to admit that people who choose to live in Saudi Arabia have made a choice. And that choice means that you are bound to whatever the religious law is of that land and if you violate it then tough luck. Don't like these restrictions? Fine then move somewhere else.

On a side-note I was able to send a valentine's day gift to my fiancée in Lahore via 786gifts.com (God bless Pakistan for being at least this liberal ). I myself am not a big fan of V day, at the end of the day it's just a harmless and fun event, nobody's loss really.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by lahori As much as it is frustrating to hear these things, I have to admit that people who choose to live in Saudi Arabia have made a choice. And that choice means that you are bound to whatever the religious law is of that land and if you violate it then tough luck. Don't like these restrictions? Fine then move somewhere else. On a side-note I was able to send a valentine's day gift to my fiancée in Lahore via 786gifts.com (God bless Pakistan for being at least this liberal ). I myself am not a big fan of V day, at the end of the day it's just a harmless and fun event, nobody's loss really.

Then why do people get so worked up when the same argument is used about living in the west? In France for example with the headscarf ban in government institutions.

[lahori]

That's what I'm saying also. The motivation behind moving to a place like France in the first place had better be driven by the lure of opportunity. If there was that opportunity to find a good job in France and settle there with family then things like these count as the trade-offs.

[jiripoca]

Saudis are a bunch of retarded morons.Its these kind of people that give muslims a bad name. Lets invade them and kick out the royals. The whole area would be new territory for our people, after all Pakistan is an overcrowded country.

Personally I cant wait till the oil runs out!

[Hasan]

The Saudi take on Islam and its highly intolerant and its harsh underpinning doctrine reflects a high degree of religious insecurity in itself. A country which does not permit the open practice of any other faith, which deems other sects of Islam as deviants or non-muslims, and takes the away the civil liberties of half of its population (women) reflects a level of paranoia which is unhealthy.

The historical past of the current Saudi regime is one based on oppression and bloodshed, which has been able to sustained itself owing to the agreements it has entered with the Western powers, whereby they will secure the flow of oil and in return for support (military) of the West. The Saudi clerics have also entered into an agreement with the royal family, whereby the clerics will be provided with a share of the financial wealth of the nation, and the Royals will be left alone to enjoy their share in which ever way they want.

This situation has given rise to the cult of Whabbism, which represents an extreme and hate based view of Islam. The Saudies have exported whabbism to other parts of the Muslim world, and it is directly linked to the increase in extremism and terrorism.

However, in the recent past the balancing act which has maintained the balance in Saudi Arab is starting to become unstable, the royals, the whabby clerics, and the West do not see eye to eye any longer. And internally, the tribal tensions are starting to mount as those tribles which have been oppressed are starting to demand equal status.

Banning of Valentine Day should be the lest of their worries!

[iZeeshan]

Can't a husband at least give his wife a rose and some heart candy?

[Hasan]

Can't a husband at least give his wife a rose and some heart candy?

Be very careful of the Saudi religious policy, they are no less evil the their Taliban counterparts......

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3321637.ece

[hussain_0216]

What are you people idiotic or something..

Its a made up fake kaffir event, any muslim would know that we are forbidden from following kaffir in their events, esepcially made up commercial BS like this..

If you want to give you wife flowers or candy then do it Monday, tuesday, Wednesday, thursday, Friday, Saturday or Sunday..

Why in Gods name are you waiting for a made up kaffir event to give your wife flowers and candy....



This is one smart thing the saudi's have done, this is the land f the prophet Muhammed pbuh, why the hell woud we commericalise this stupid event in that land

[hussain_0216]

If any muslim here can show me their islamic reasoning for this kaffir event and why muslims should disobey God and follow the kaffir in dancing abot like idiots then please do so..

[Pak_cricketer]

Any Kaffaur Event is haraam for any Muslim to participate in. Like our prophet wanted to take out these fake and useless events, we too should follow in his foot steps. Show the world that we're proud of our religon rather then support them.

[hussain_0216]

There is fair critisism and unfair critisism...


People must follow God and his will (islam).. NOT the other way around

Too many losers want islam to fit in with their pitifull lives, they want to do what they like and break every rule a muslim shouldnt and then they turn around and critisise muslims and islam because it nt as liberal as they are..


Valentines day is such a pitifull comerical event and its unbelievable these people ar attacking the saudi's for banning this idiotic event in the land of the prophet

[Shah]

Valentine's Day does not belong to any religion. It is day to show your affection for your spouse, little kids to indicate their friendship for their classmates, etc. It is supposed to bring harmony into this world, promote more love, understanding and peace.

This is obviously against the primitive and shameful mentality of those racist and repulsive people who promote hatred, animosity, anger and superiority over other people in the name of religion (ironically all extremely anti-Islamic tendencies).

[Zechariah]

They are only successful in small cities, in big cities like Jeddah and Dhaharan. I spent 17 years there had no problems was a great time in life, they just need to promote Islam's moderate face and fix thier human rights, other then that Saudi is a great place to live.

JEDDAH ROCKS!

[Wazeeri]

Valentine's Day does not belong to any religion.

Please read up on it's history if you think that is the case.
Even though taking these steps is a bit extreme I completely agree with the intentions of wiping out this vulgar celebration leeching for big companies.

. It is day to show your affection for your spouse, little kids to indicate their friendship for their classmates, etc

So it's not for taking advantage of hormone driven teens?

[Waq]

Originally Posted by hussain_0216 What are you people idiotic or something.. Its a made up fake kaffir event, any muslim would know that we are forbidden from following kaffir in their events, esepcially made up commercial BS like this.. If you want to give you wife flowers or candy then do it Monday, tuesday, Wednesday, thursday, Friday, Saturday or Sunday.. Why in Gods name are you waiting for a made up kaffir event to give your wife flowers and candy.... This is one smart thing the saudi's have done, this is the land f the prophet Muhammed pbuh, why the hell woud we commericalise this stupid event in that land

With regards to you implying that everyday should be valentine rather then one day then why do Muslims not fast every day?

Ramadan is an islamic event that exists for many reasons such as modesty, remembering the poor, discipline etc.

Valentines day is a non islamic event where you should make that extra effort in showing your appreciation to your loved one, as like fasting, food and love can be taken for granted.

What is the harm in celebrating it exactly and does it matter if kaffirs invented it. if they invented something bad then fair enough but come on now!

You seriously need to calm the kaffir thing down and use it when it is justified as you are representing Islam, and would not want people to think that it is not tolerant and full of extremist mullahs like your post is unfortunately proving in todays Islamaphobic media.

[Waq]

Originally Posted by Wazeeri Please read up on it's history if you think that is the case. Even though taking these steps is a bit extreme I completely agree with the intentions of wiping out this vulgar celebration leeching for big companies. So it's not for taking advantage of hormone driven teens?

Big companies may thrive upon it, but it is not all vulgar. My plans for valentines day is to give my wife a card and take her out for a meal in a local restaurant. Dare I say millions will be doing thr same!

In my teens I would look for dates unsucessfuly and give out card without getting any in return. Yes that is Islamically wrong but such 'poondhi' does not only occur on February the 14th.

[hussain_0216]

Kaffir essentially means disbeliver does it not...

Are non-muslims beleivers in the islamic faith..
ANSWER=No!, So they are kaffir, whats the problem..

Valentines day is a non islamic event

And there you go, this is why Muslims should never celebrate it, or partake in it.. Muslims are told in the Quran not to partake in the events of the kaffir (no right minded muslims would partake in christmas or divali, valentines day is n different)



P.S- The non-muslims will hate us regardless, it says in the Quran, the kaffir will never be happy with us until we are like them

[Waq]

Originally Posted by hussain_0216 Kaffir essentially means disbeliver does it not... Are non-muslims beleivers in the islamic faith.. ANSWER=No!, So they are kaffir, whats the problem.. And there you go, this is why Muslims should never celebrate it, or partake in it.. Muslims are told in the Quran not to partake in the events of the kaffir (no right minded muslims would partake in christmas or divali, valentines day is n different) P.S- The non-muslims will hate us regardless, it says in the Quran, the kaffir will never be happy with us until we are like them

Which country do you live in?

Can you quote a source on where Muslim's cannot partake in a non islamic event. Is parents evening Islamic? Is a staff party non Islamic? Is watching cricket non islamic, as there is no reference that you can in the Quran?

Lets get really petty. Is a car ok to ride in Islamically as it may be built by a kaffir.

Please don't stoop to these levels and answer my earlier post where I tried to justify why valentines day is ok.

[hussain_0216]

I live in the UK....

If you are a muslim and you want to do nice things for your wife, you have every day in the year to do so,,

Why must a muslim partake in this kaffir valentines day, what is its history,hat are the reasons for muslims to involve themselves in this event. there is no possible reason why a muslims should take part in this event..

[Wazeeri]

Originally Posted by Waq In my teens I would look for dates unsucessfuly and give out card without getting any in return. Yes that is Islamically wrong but such 'poondhi' does not only occur on February the 14th.

But Poondhi is celebrated on this very day.

It doesn't help any cause to paint this day as some sort of rejuvenation of a marriage. valentine's day has it's target (victims) and it is not the married.

[Waq]

Originally Posted by hussain_0216 I live in the UK.... If you are a muslim and you want to do nice things for your wife, you have every day in the year to do so,, Why must a muslim partake in this kaffir valentines day, what is its history,hat are the reasons for muslims to involve themselves in this event. there is no possible reason why a muslims should take part in this event..

Come on Hussain, why don't you respond to some of mine points? I mean why don't you fast everyday?

It's not practical to do nice things for your wife everyday so why not partake in an event doing so?

It is a kaffir's valentines day just as much as it is a kaffir's internet and maybe even server that you are using to post on this site. Like I said earlier, try and lose some of your anger as you may one day become very angry and will only see orange on valentines day and not red, and that will be because of the orange uniforms.

[Waq]

Originally Posted by Wazeeri But Poondhi is celebrated on this very day. It doesn't help any cause to paint this day as some sort of rejuvenation of a marriage. valentine's day has it's target (victims) and it is not the married.

Are you married Wazeeri? The targets are every mug who wishes to take out his wallet.

Your points are valid that it also encourages and even celebrates poondhi, but poondhi is exaggerated on Pakistan independance day and weddings so shall we also ban these events.

If youngsters want to go on the pull they will find a way and banning valentines day will not help.

[hussain_0216]

We are nt asked to fast everyday, Why? would we fast every day when we are not asked to do so..

I actually do beleive that you should be as nice to your wife as you can be, but with this particular event why should we partake in the same event as the kaffir.. You will be telling us next that we should also celebrate divali and the crucifiction of christ..



I have no problem in utilising any item, invention t your own benefit it would be daft not to,

But why we should partake in a kaffir event is beyond me AND WHY it should be commercialised and celebrated in ARABIA the birth place of the prophet is baffling

[Sultan Yusuf]

I don't know about specific restrictions, but valentines day is the biggest load of rubbish I've ever come across.

I happened to be in Pakistan a few years ago during feb, and it was cringeworthy. In fact, most people I know over here (in the UK) find it stupid, cheesy and illogical too.

Even if you want to do something nice for your mrs, why does it have to be valentine's day?

The Saudi's should have banned it for simply being the most retarded concept in the world.

[12thMan]

All these Valentine's, Mother's, Father's day are dumb and only for you spend money. In Pakistan no one new about or cared about these in 80s but cable/dishes etc have made them normal. In USA how many times money has to be spent in a year if you are married and have a kid - birthdays (atleast 2), Valentines, Mother's day, aniversary, Christmas. And the rest of the year they are asking for things too

[Champ]

That's only because no-one sends them any valentines wishes anyway!!

[Waq]

Originally Posted by hussain_0216 We are nt asked to fast everyday, Why? would we fast every day when we are not asked to do so.. I actually do beleive that you should be as nice to your wife as you can be, but with this particular event why should we partake in the same event as the kaffir.. You will be telling us next that we should also celebrate divali and the crucifiction of christ.. I have no problem in utilising any item, invention t your own benefit it would be daft not to, But why we should partake in a kaffir event is beyond me AND WHY it should be commercialised and celebrated in ARABIA the birth place of the prophet is baffling

For the umpteenth time, how is showing your appreciation to your wife by getting her flowers and going out for a meal a kaffir event? Even if it is, I have no problem doing a kaffir thing then if it brings some joy to my life. Commercialism and such events are the norm in the west and also the middle east and Pakistan. Try emigrating to Somalia where you may be safe from the american kaffir events.

And why would I ask for us to celebrate diwali and christmas? Makes no sense, although I would have no problems taking my child to a fireworks event during Diwali. I have no insecurities or doubts about my faith. Perhaps you should ponder on that thought.

[Mercenary]

Valentines Day, Mothers Day, Fathers Day, etc

These are all manufactured commercial ventures designed to make lots of money for the retail industry. We are all mugs to entertain this nonsense, unfortunately we have to bcos of the consequences if we dont!

[161]

Originally Posted by Mercenary Valentines Day, Mothers Day, Fathers Day, etc These are all manufactured commercial ventures designed to make lots of money for the retail industry. We are all mugs to entertain this nonsense, unfortunately we have to bcos of the consequences if we dont!

right .. but shouldn't we have the option to be such "mugs" or not ?

does a government have the right to have so much interference into one's private life ?

[12thMan]

If you are grown men living in Saudi Arabia you will be happy that you don't have to spend the money for this day. But wait now Roses and dinner will not cut it so you have to go by jewlery or Titanic (movie) instead. Is this a clever move by Saudis? is ARY behind this or maybe an incentive to shop early and/or start growing flowers

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by kashif77 right .. but shouldn't we have the option to be such "mugs" or not ? does a government have the right to have so much interference into one's private life ?

If they really want to celebrate love then why dont they make their own one up? Pick the day Khadija married the Prophet or something and call it Love Day.

Why does 'freedom' have to mean 'aping' the west and everything they do.

From Valentines day to the Bharat Army to the fast food culture now prevalent in Pakistan. Why does it all have to be about copying?

Why cant non-Western countries start some 'traditions' of their own, why cant they try to have their own identity so that someday people in Western countries say I want to celebrate 'Afridi Day' or something like that.

Why do people want to copy like monkeys and then others want to fight for their right to be monkeys?

If they really want to copy the west and you want to support them then encourage them to copy the welfare system, the law and order institutions and things like that. Not Valentines Day

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by Mercenary If they really want to copy the west and you want to support them then encourage them to copy the welfare system, the law and order institutions and things like that. Not Valentines Day

One of the biggest problems with the modern world is that something like this Valentines day ban will receive miles of coverage in newspapers and electronic media the world over. People will argue about it over the office watercooler and whilst socialising with their friends. All this in defence of a day made to benefit the retail market.

And yet no-one bats an eyelid at children starving to death, unfortunately this is the shallow world we live in!

Just goes to show how the world really is run by corporations and life is becoming one big shopping day after another.

[Bangla Tiger]

to be brutally honest, screw valentines day. not only is it a bid'a, but if you need a freakin date on the calendar to be romantic with your wife, then you don't deserve to be loved anyways.

valentines day is the most gay thing out there along with halloween.

[12thMan]

They are really just banning roses or some red color. Go with pink or white or spend some $$ if you really love someone and want to show it to celebrate. Or use it as an excuse because you will have to probably spend some money in a month or two anyway
and a lesson for thoes who really wanted to get away cheap with flowers - buy couple of pots and grow them for next year

[Daoud]

Originally Posted by Bangla Tiger to be brutally honest, screw valentines day. not only is it a bid'a, but if you need a freakin date on the calendar to be romantic with your wife, then you don't deserve to be loved anyways. valentines day is the most gay thing out there along with halloween.

Oi, Halloween was fun as a kid. Got to dress up as cool characters and got tons of candy. Certainly cant complain about that. Absurd as it is now, it was great back then.

Valentine's day has mutated into something else though. I see people like my dad or uncle buying roses and stuff so it does show what the whole expectations of the matter are like. Heck, a few days ago when my parents called, they asked if I was going to do anything for Valentine's day

[Hash]

Originally Posted by Bangla Tiger to be brutally honest, screw valentines day. not only is it a bid'a, but if you need a freakin date on the calendar to be romantic with your wife, then you don't deserve to be loved anyways. valentines day is the most gay thing out there along with halloween.

gay? riiight. So how do you explain that then?

[lahori]

It's harmless, comeon guys. If you don't want to participate then don't. Won't make you any less of a Muslim if you do, after all it's the intent that counts.

[PlanetPakistan]

only 24 hours to go now. I am so excited

[MIG]

Is there a bigger commitment to your love for your spouse than the Nikah and the years you have spent together ?

Means nothing to me but back to the topic, the Saudis do wierd and strange things all the time - nothing new there.

[Hasan]

The issue should not be restricted to the Valentine’s Day, which I believe to be a very silly idea indeed.

However, for the state to step in and for the religions police to go around imposing bans on all things red is a very silly way of practising Islam, and which by its very essence stands counter to the Quran (there is no compulsion in religion).

The actions of the Saudi authorities only reflect a high level on insecurity and paranoia, if the clerics have failed to prove that Valentine Days is not in keeping with the teaching of Islam, then that is their limit, they cannot stop someone from buying items which are deemed halal in Islam (flowers and chocolates). That is shirk on their part, as they have no right to ban something which has been made permissible under Islam.

The actions of the Saudi authorities also stands counter to the sunnah of the Prophet, who permitted of all faiths (including non-believers) to practice their beliefs without hindrance within the state of Islam. The Prophet of Islam invited the people to come to Islam through the soft and gentle nature of his character, not by imposing Islam by force and having a group of men going round beating people up such that they would pray. People followed the teaching of Islam because they believed in them not because they were forced to practise them.

A religion based on force, policing, and threats is not a religion which Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) brought to this world. True Islam would be where the people reject silly customs like Valentine’s Day because of their own accord and understanding of Islam. And those people who wish to send take part in Valentine’s Day are free to do so, and if they commit a sin then they will be answerable to Allah.

[161]

Originally Posted by Mercenary If they really want to celebrate love then why dont they make their own one up? Pick the day Khadija married the Prophet or something and call it Love Day. Why does 'freedom' have to mean 'aping' the west and everything they do. From Valentines day to the Bharat Army to the fast food culture now prevalent in Pakistan. Why does it all have to be about copying? Why cant non-Western countries start some 'traditions' of their own, why cant they try to have their own identity so that someday people in Western countries say I want to celebrate 'Afridi Day' or something like that. Why do people want to copy like monkeys and then others want to fight for their right to be monkeys? If they really want to copy the west and you want to support them then encourage them to copy the welfare system, the law and order institutions and things like that. Not Valentines Day

Let's not get confused here ...

Whatever ur feelings on Valentines Day ..

A government has absolutely no right to "ban" it.

You have a right to be against it but u don't have the right to force others to not celebrate it.

[Hasan]

You have a right to be against it but u don't have the right to force others to not celebrate it

It is also not permitted in Islam, you cannot stop people from those items which have been made lawful. There is thing in Islam which allows the state to stop people from sending flowers to whom they like. This is shirk, that is changing the practice of Islam ones its have been perfected.

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by kashif77 Let's not get confused here ... Whatever ur feelings on Valentines Day .. A government has absolutely no right to "ban" it. You have a right to be against it but u don't have the right to force others to not celebrate it.

Did I say I agree with the Saudi stance or that it's ok to ban it?

I was bemoaning the fact that this ban will receive more coverage than causes of more importance and worth.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by Hasan It is also not permitted in Islam, you cannot stop people from those items which have been made lawful. There is thing in Islam which allows the state to stop people from sending flowers to whom they like. This is shirk, that is changing the practice of Islam ones its have been perfected.

pardon?

[Wiji]

EDIT

[Hasan]

pardon?

For the sake of an silly ritual the Saudi authorities are banning items which are make lawful to muslims!. Where in Islam does it say that the Islamic state can prevent me from buying flowers on the 14th of Feb. It is my legal and religious right to buy flowers on any day of the year, no one can prevent me from buying flowers and to do so as a mean of enforcing Islamic values. This is a corruption and alternation of what has been made lawful in Islam, and therefore shirk.

[Ralync]

.

[Hasan]

Ralync,

you are missing the point.... Islam does not permit the ruling authority to ban items which are permitted (flowers). The fatwa you posted refers to the practice of Valentine's Day, it says nothing about banning of flowers and red paper on the day. How can the state police walk into a shop and stop the shop keeper from sell red flowers and paper? There is nothing in Islam which stops people from buying and selling flowers and red paper on 14th of Feb, and for the Saudi state to do so is preventing people from access to those items which are made halal in Islam. Its no different then banning eggs on Easter, turkey on Christmas, or candles on Davali. The whole banning of flowers on the 14th of Feb is very silly and a mockary of Islam.

[Ralync]

Yeah, but being realistic if you are buying flowers or chocolates on the 17th February, then most likely it is due to Valentines Day. Why not buy your wife tons of flowers a week before or the day after?

[DHONI183]

Originally Posted by iZeeshan Can't a husband at least give his wife a rose and some heart candy?

Uhmmm......... no .

Originally Posted by Hasan Be very careful of the Saudi religious policy, they are no less evil the their Taliban counterparts...... http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3321637.ece

How sad . Don´t they feel ashamed at tarnishing someone´s izzat ?

Originally Posted by Bangla Tiger to be brutally honest, screw valentines day. not only is it a bid'a, but if you need a freakin date on the calendar to be romantic with your wife, then you don't deserve to be loved anyways. valentines day is the most gay thing out there along with halloween.

But that´s not what it was meant to be for or what ?????

Originally Posted by PlanetPakistan only 24 hours to go now. I am so excited

*Ohem Ohem*!!! Control yourself, get hold of yourself, Faisal .

Waisey, kuch planning hai kya ?

[Sultan Yusuf]

I really cannot believe this is such a big issue. Stop being a bunch of soppy little drama queens. There is more to life than valentines! How old are you all?

I think Merc's previous posts #34 and #35 said it all.

[Wazeeri]

(there is no compulsion in religion).

No but the state has a right to act against anything which is regarded as lewd and vulgar. That is what the state is doing. they are not forcing anyone into islam.

Their methods may not be right but islamicly they aren't doing anything wrong.

if the clerics have failed to prove that Valentine Days is not in keeping with the teaching of Islam, then that is their limit, they cannot stop someone from buying items which are deemed halal in Islam

The ban on buying items is stupid but buying anything which promotes Valentines' day can be banned. It is more an issue of governance rather than making something haram.

It is also not permitted in Islam, you cannot stop people from those items which have been made lawful. There is thing in Islam which allows the state to stop people from sending flowers to whom they like. This is shirk, that is changing the practice of Islam ones its have been perfected.

There is a difference between governance of a state and halal and haram. If there wasn't than a lot of laws made to monitor the police forces, stock exchanges, banks....etc would be SHIRK as well.

Shirk btw is the worshipping of someone other than Allah. I think you meant Biddah.

Islam does not permit the ruling authority to ban items which are permitted (flowers).

What are you talking about? Can you provide any evidence of this? and don't quote the Quranic ayat about making haram what is made halal. We are talking about bans not halal and haram.

[PlanetPakistan]

Originally Posted by DHONI183 Waisey, kuch planning hai kya ?

plan on a romantic dinner of teenday and baangan.

[DHONI183]

Originally Posted by PlanetPakistan plan on a romantic dinner of teenday and baangan.

Waisey, humara bhi kuch aisa hee haal hai .

[Zechariah]

Originally Posted by DHONI183 Waisey, humara bhi kuch aisa hee haal hai .

app teenday hain ya baaingan?

[DHONI183]

Originally Posted by Zechariah app teenday hain ya baaingan?

Neither . Kuch aisa khaoonga waisey .

[Zechariah]

Originally Posted by DHONI183 Neither . Kuch aisa khaoonga waisey .

Ghalti se kuch aesa wesa na kha lena bhai

[DHONI183]

Originally Posted by Zechariah Ghalti se kuch aesa wesa na kha lena bhai

Ghar mein rahunga na. Nahi meri Shane Warne, Mohammad Asif yaan Shoaib Akhtar ke ghar daawat hai . Kuch samjhe ????

[the Great Khan]

St. Valentine If one looks back into historical texts of the Catholic Church, they will find that the actual history of Valentines Day revolves around the day when a saint by the name of Valentine was martyred for his faith. Apparently, Valentine was killed when he dared to defy the Roman Emperor Claudius II, and performed secret marriages for young lovers. Other accounts claim that St. Valentine was killed when he helped Christians escape from the clutches of Roman inquisitors who were torturing and killing prisoners. Another interesting thing to note about the history of Valentines Day is that the Catholic Church actually recognizes eleven different saints named Valentine, and three of them share February 14 as their day of recognition.

so its origins are christian...hence a christian festival..some say it is actually a pagan festival that the christians adopted later...so my question is where does it stop?

do we now celebrate halloween?
raksha bandan?
christmas?
diwali?

ask yourself how many non muslims celebrate Eid?

[Underworld57]

Originally Posted by the Great Khan so its origins are christian...hence a christian festival..some say it is actually a pagan festival that the christians adopted later...so my question is where does it stop? do we now celebrate halloween? raksha bandan? christmas? diwali? ask yourself how many non muslims celebrate Eid?

so u cant go out and get candy?

[161]

Originally Posted by the Great Khan so its origins are christian...hence a christian festival..some say it is actually a pagan festival that the christians adopted later...so my question is where does it stop? do we now celebrate halloween? raksha bandan? christmas? diwali? ask yourself how many non muslims celebrate Eid?

don't u think people should be allowed to determine for themselves whether they want to celebrate these ?

[Hasan]

No but the state has a right to act against anything which is regarded as lewd and vulgar. That is what the state is doing. they are not forcing anyone into islam. Their methods may not be right but islamicly they aren't doing anything wrong.

Buying and sending flowers and other forms of gifts is not being "vulgar or lewd", and if they were they would have been banned throught out the year. Secondly, the state have no authority to intervene in your private affairs, especially if they relate to personal relations. When and to whom someone wants to send flowers is a private matter, and does not result in any activity which can be deemed as being publically "vulgar or lewd".
Your point is fundamentally flawed as it is based on an incorrect intrepation of "vulgar or Lewd" and fail to comprehend the difference been private and public activities.

The ban on buying items is stupid but buying anything which promotes Valentines' day can be banned. It is more an issue of governance rather than making something haram.

This statement reflects your confusion on the issue first you say banning is stupid and then you go on to say that banning anything to do with V-day is ok.????? And your point about goverance and haram also reflects confusion, goverance refers to the process by which issues are decided and acted upon, whereas haram is something which Islam deem unlawful. No goverance process can change the basic tenents of Islam, Islam have a very clear policy on items and activities which have been made halal and haram. Send of flowers is an activity which is deemed to be halal (in itself) and it will be halal for 365 days of the year, and no authority has the power to deem it haram. If they do then they are changing Islam and therefore becoming a part to bidda.

Yes, the intent with which someone send flowers to another person can make the act unislamic, however, this is a private issue and the state cannot see into the hearts of men and asscertain their intent. Therefore, any regulation on sending of flowers by the state authorities is not possible or permitted.

Shirk btw is the worshipping of someone other than Allah. I think you meant Biddah.

I stand corrected.

[Hasan]

What are you talking about? Can you provide any evidence of this? and don't quote the Quranic ayat about making haram what is made halal. We are talking about bans not halal and haram

........pressed the sent button too soon

no my friend the onus is on you to justify banning of sending of flowers, something which is perfectly within accepted practice of Islam. Islam gives no recognation to V-day and 14th Feb is like any other day, therefore please provide me with evidence to prove that the state has the authority (under Islam) to prevent me for exercising my Islam right to buy and send flowers on this day. Yes, the clerics may discourage people for part taking in V-day activities, but the authority has no power to stop the sale of flowers.

And if the people ignore the clerics, that is a reflection on the importance place on the clerics and should not result in the state taking silly actions to ban things which are allowable in Islam.

[Ralync]

.

[b0wld]

Roman Catholics dont even recognize this day..thye dont even name cupid as an angel so wats the fuss

Why we as Muslims want to celebrate another religions festival...nobody celebrates Eid with this enthusiasm as ppl celebrate Basant and Valentine's Day...hell this yr my mom said that all big shopping malls in karachi were decorated with christmas tree's like its our religious festival...

Spain banned all muslim activites (including azaan) why didnt anyone speak abt it??? so wat if Saudi's hav banned valentine's day..tell me is it doing ANY HARM????

[Hasan]

Do these people who represent the religious people have anything better to do with their time? First they ban the sale of flowers and all thing red, and if that was not foolish enought these brain dead monkeys are about to kill a innocent human....

Human Rights Watch has appealed to Saudi Arabia to halt the execution of a woman convicted of witchcraft. In a letter to King Abdullah, the rights group described the trial and conviction of Fawza Falih as a miscarriage of justice.

The illiterate woman was detained by religious police in 2005 and allegedly beaten and forced to fingerprint a confession that she could not read.

Among her accusers was a man who alleged she made him impotent.

Human Rights Watch said that Ms Falih had exhausted all her chances of appealing against her death sentence and she could only now be saved if King Abdullah intervened.

The US-based group is asking the Saudi ruler to void Ms Falih's conviction and to bring charges against the religious police who detained her and are alleged to have mistreated her.

Its letter to King Abdullah says the woman was tried for the undefined crime of witchcraft and that her conviction was on the basis of the written statements of witnesses who said that she had bewitched them.

Human Rights Watch says the trial failed to meet the safeguards in the Saudi justice system.

The confession which the defendant was forced to fingerprint was not even read out to her, the group says.

Also Ms Falih and her representatives were not allowed to attend most of the hearings.

When an appeal court decided she should not be executed, the law courts imposed the death sentence again, arguing that it would be in the public interest.

[Hasan]

Searching the net, I came across the following example of why the religious policy in Saudi Arab is a law onto itself and why they should not be associated with Islamic teachings.

Banning sale of cats and dogs
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14738358/

Letting shool girls burn to death
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/1874471.stm

The religious police being training to act like humans
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003....brianwhitaker

WHat is mockary of Islam!

[Wazeeri]

Secondly, the state have no authority to intervene in your private affairs, especially if they relate to personal relations

Some would argue what you wear is a private matter as well, but all states have indecency laws. You walk around naked through London and you'll find that out very soon.

Promoting unislamic customs is not a private matter. It affects society as a whole and the state has every right to step in.

Your point is fundamentally flawed as it is based on an incorrect intrepation of "vulgar or Lewd" and fail to comprehend the difference been private and public activities.

Buying a flower and handing it to someone in the privacy of your own home is a private matter but selling goods to promote Valentine's day is not a private matter.

This statement reflects your confusion on the issue first you say banning is stupid and then you go on to say that banning anything to do with V-day is ok.?????

No actually it shows that you would like to twist words rather than argue sensibly. I have not said anything about anything being OK I have said that a state has a right to ban it. Have another read.

And your point about goverance and haram also reflects confusion, goverance refers to the process by which issues are decided and acted upon, whereas haram is something which Islam deem unlawful. No goverance process can change the basic tenents of Islam, Islam have a very clear policy on items and activities which have been made halal and haram

I fail to see the logic in your post and I am sure you are struggling with it as well.
A state can ban anything it feels is needed to be banned. If your (il)logic is to be followed than we should not need to stop at traffic lights just because they are red. Islam has never banned us from crossing a red light.

I stand corrected.

and not for the first or last time.

Searching the net, I came across the following example of why the religious policy in Saudi Arab is a law onto itself and why they should not be associated with Islamic teachings.

you will find that it is you who is linking them to islamic teachings.

[Shah]

For those holier-than-thous who are supporting the Saudi stance on banning the giving of flowers to your loved ones on Feb. 14th, you realize that you are backing the biggest bunch of arrogant racists, hypocrits and unIslamic people.

It is well known that in Saudi there are 3 sets of laws, for Saudis, for white westerners and then for the scum (in their eyes) from the rest of Asia like India, Pakistan, Philippines, etc. These people are promoting a strict version of Islam through Wahabism in the madrassas which they are paying for, which in turn is producing hatred and suicide bombers. It is okay for these people to kill other people and themselves (both acts forbidden in Islam) but it is not okay to give flowers.

It is a well-known fact that the rich Saudis drink and bring over foreign women. Even been on a flight from Saudi to say London? All the Saudi ladies ged rid of their abayas and wear the most fashionable clothes. The men go crazy in Europe and North America surrounding themselves with women and booze. What right do such despicable specimens of the human race, who are far from perfect in any sense of the word, have to prevent a husband from giving flowers to his wife?

[12thMan]

For those holier-than-thous who are supporting the Saudi stance on banning the giving of flowers to your loved ones on Feb. ...

Buy jewellry instead. Or take a vacation and go out that week and write a letter instead. A rose and card with a message from Hallmark

[Ralync]

.

[Fawad]

I have lived in the UK all my life and I can honestly say that I have never celebrated Valentines Day even when I was in a relationship (gf wasn't to pleased ), I just find it a pointless day. However I no problem with muslims who participate in it, infact my friends celebrate it more than the whites.

[Bangla Tiger]

to be honest, i see nothing "romantic" about valentines day. millions of people are doing the exact same **** you are on the same day, for feks sake! if you're buying your girl chocolates or flowers, you're not exactly displaying amazing ingenuity here.

as a single guy, if and when i get married, i'm not going to need some day drummed up by people who exemplify sexual infidelity the other 364 days of the year, to facilitate me boinking my wife.

valentine's day is, along with halloween, the dumbest idea for a holiday (if is a genius business wise though).

[Fawad]

Originally Posted by Bangla Tiger to be honest, i see nothing "romantic" about valentines day. millions of people are doing the exact same **** you are on the same day, for feks sake! if you're buying your girl chocolates or flowers, you're not exactly displaying amazing ingenuity here. as a single guy, if and when i get married, i'm not going to need some day drummed up by people who exemplify sexual infidelity the other 364 days of the year, to facilitate me boinking my wife. valentine's day is, along with halloween, the dumbest idea for a holiday (if is a genius business wise though).

Add the American festival Thanksgiving to that list, another excuse for the fat yanks to stuff themselves with food.

[12thMan]

valentine's day is, along with halloween, the dumbest idea for a holiday

not a holida in USA - celebration yes

Add the American festival Thanksgiving to that list

I like this one as it is a long weekend for many people here and sales go on. You don;t have to buy presents either. I approve of this one

[the Great Khan]

Originally Posted by kashif77 don't u think people should be allowed to determine for themselves whether they want to celebrate these ?

not if it affects the whole of Muslim society...did Muslims celebrate christmas during the time of the Prophet (pbuh) because ultimatley they are our best examples..they never stopped Jews, pagans or christians from doing so...but did they as Muslims celebrate any pagan festival?

also pleas etell me what the difference betwen a non Muslim and a Muslim is..thanks

[Wazeeri]

For those holier-than-thous who are supporting the Saudi stance on banning the giving of flowers to your loved ones on Feb. 14th, you realize that you are backing the biggest bunch of arrogant racists, hypocrits and unIslamic people.

What does the ruling on Valentine have to do with them being racist or unislamic?
We can condemn the latter while condoning their stance against valentine's day.