Suggestions to BCCI regarding IPL

[Savak]

Thank god the IPL is over. Its too long for my liking, they need to shorten it, either make a condition that each team is allowed to play each other once thts it or they need to introduce groups. But they definately need to shorten it by 3-4 weeks atleast.

If they are so admanent on taking on the ICL, why not hold the IPL on the same day as ICL, lets see which tournament the spectators go to. IPL should be held on such a time period where majority of the teams and the players are free to participate and to ensure plenty of top players play against each other.

Last but not least, this should be held atmost once every two years in order to protect ODI's and test cricket and too guard against early retirements. Ofcourse they need to attach certain performance conditions to the high amounts players receive for e.g. i dont think it is fair for someone like Afridi to be getting $675,000 despite beeing a huge flop in the entire tournament and someone like Sohail Tanvir who was the best bowler of the whole tournament but is beeing paid something around $100,000 for the whole season. I have reservations over the amounts paid to Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly in addition to the fact these big guns did not fire when their teams needed them the most.

[Ghoshtbuster]

emmm, I think the IPL can be compared to football leagues - so the suggestions above dont work.

Its an Indian tournament, and they should do what they want. It has no bearing (or atleast shouldnt) on international cricket.

The money issue is not really an issue at all. In football terms, a big name player will have a high value due to what he has done in the past. It was the same case here. No doubt that Tanvirs value will go up, and if another team offers him more money - he may chose to go there.

[sohailalam]

i quit reading the moment i read u saying that each team can only play another once and to shorten it by 3-4weeks.

1) its a league, so 2 games per opponent is the bare minimum.
2) its 6 weeks long, remove 4 weeks and u barely got time for any games, unless u play like 6 games a day!

[Boys_played_well]

Somehow make it work so that people actually care about who is winning and who is losing.

I think most people looked at this as entertainment, not real cricket....a chance to see some stars play together and against each other. I honestly did not give a damn if Delhi won or Chennai, or whoever else was playing. I spoke to a lot of Indian friends too and they did not feel allegiance towards any team either.

Otherwise, it's a decent idea...a chance for some hit and giggle cricket.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by sohailalam i quit reading the moment i read u saying that each team can only play another once and to shorten it by 3-4weeks. 1) its a league, so 2 games per opponent is the bare minimum. 2) its 6 weeks long, remove 4 weeks and u barely got time for any games, unless u play like 6 games a day!

Since you are so adamant about what a league is and what a league isn't....I should inform you that leagues do not have semi finals or finals.....they are just leagues, simple as that.

The length needs to be halved to 3 weeks. Two matches a day is not that difficult a proposition.

[PlanetPakistan]

I hope they either make some MASSIVE changes and if thats not possible then have reduce the length of the tournament by 6 weeks or 59 games.

[sohailalam]

Originally Posted by Hash Since you are so adamant about what a league is and what a league isn't....I should inform you that leagues do not have semi finals or finals.....they are just leagues, simple as that. The length needs to be halved to 3 weeks. Two matches a day is not that difficult a proposition.

leagues do have playoffs, no?
also, if u want to follow the EPL, that is a much longer tournament with much more teams. so that would lengthen the league phase, instead of shortening it.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by sohailalam leagues do have playoffs, no? also, if u want to follow the EPL, that is a much longer tournament with much more teams. so that would lengthen the league phase, instead of shortening it.

Some leagues do have playoffs yes......to decide who gets promoted from lower divisions to higher divisions. Since there is only one IPL, this does not apply. No leagues have semi finals and final to decide who the overall winner is.

And I never said anything about following the EPL. Football is totally different from cricket which is mainly an international sport, hence you cannot have lengthy domestic tournaments which hinge on players international commitments.

So what the IPL needs to do is halve its length from 6 weeks to 3 weeks which means playing 2 matches per day and scrapping the semi finals and final

[sohailalam]

they already play 2 matches on a couple of days of the week if im not wrong.

also, if they have 2 matches everyday, then they wont be able to fulfil their goal of "after work entertainment for the working class", so atleast one of their matches will go unwatched by most of the people - not happening.

if anything, they should increase a few teams, add in a couple teams from pak, sl and bangladesh and make it a 3-4 month long tourney.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by sohailalam they already play 2 matches on a couple of days of the week if im not wrong. also, if they have 2 matches everyday, then they wont be able to fulfil their goal of "after work entertainment for the working class", so atleast one of their matches will go unwatched by most of the people - not happening. if anything, they should increase a few teams, add in a couple teams from pak, sl and bangladesh and make it a 3-4 month long tourney.

They only play 2 matches per day on weekends. During the week its just 1 match per day. They should forget about TV money and try to improve this tournament as an event. Shortening its length will also make it more appealing to international cricketers since there should not and will not be a window in the FTP for the IPL.

A 3-4 month long tourney would be beyond ridiculous, almost to the extent of being laughable.

[surfer]

Originally Posted by Hash They only play 2 matches per day on weekends. During the week its just 1 match per day. They should forget about TV money and try to improve this tournament as an event. Shortening its length will also make it more appealing to international cricketers since there should not and will not be a window in the FTP for the IPL. A 3-4 month long tourney would be beyond ridiculous, almost to the extent of being laughable.

And you imagine that the huge money that is getting into it will be donated by someone?

[Hash]

Originally Posted by surfer And you imagine that the huge money that is getting into it will be donated by someone?

I don't care about the money. I was talking about how the IPL can be improved as an event.

[Random Aussie]

I think the IPL was pretty successful, yes a lot of people from other countries dropped off after a while but I hear it has been faithfully followed by the Indian population.
The only rule I would change is to allow 5 or 6 internationals, that still leaves spots for "unknown Indian" but I think would make it a but more exciting otherwise you are spending most of the tournament watching Gamhir and Marsh bat, Tanvir and Slapsanth bowl.

[surfer]

Originally Posted by Hash I don't care about the money. I was talking about how the IPL can be improved as an event.

But you cant suggest "forget about the tv money". Thats unrealistic.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by surfer But you cant suggest "forget about the tv money". Thats unrealistic.

To be honest it's unrealistic for it to remain the way it is. They will have to change otherwise it will fizzle out. The novelty of it being the first IPL and the first such event in the world carried it through this time. But it will get tiresome after a while. The tournament cannot drag on the way it did this time.

As far as TV coverage is concerned, there are things which can be worked out. Two matches a day means one will be shown live and the other can get a highlights slot.....or if they insist on showing both live then they can have them at different times.

However you look at it, a domestic T20 competition should not be longer than 3 weeks.

People talk that there should be a slot in the FTP for the IPL but I don't agree. Why should it get a slot? What about the APL? And the EPL? And the PPL? Or what if SA join the party too and organise one? Will they all get slots too? So the entire cricketing year will just be a series of domestic T20 tournaments? That's not where I want to see cricket going.

[sohailalam]

thing is, right now BCCI > ICC. so they can muscle around and get a proper slot for their tournament. it is not like they care much about the EPL or the APL.

also, a tournament too short would just leave the fans with no time to dissect and examine the performances, a 45day tournament is good IMO.

and ofcourse, the novelty will wear off, but if they can maintain the quality of matches, then they r in safe waters.

in the end, liking the IPL might come down to how much anti-india u are.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by sohailalam thing is, right now BCCI > ICC. so they can muscle around and get a proper slot for their tournament. it is not like they care much about the EPL or the APL. also, a tournament too short would just leave the fans with no time to dissect and examine the performances, a 45day tournament is good IMO. and ofcourse, the novelty will wear off, but if they can maintain the quality of matches, then they r in safe waters. in the end, liking the IPL might come down to how much anti-india u are.

I guess that's always going to be the easy answer! Those who criticise it are just anti Indian/jealous/envious etc etc

At the end of the day reality is reality and it wont last in its current form. T20 cricket is not about dissecting and examining performances....it is about entertainment. And the 'samey' nature of this format means it will get boring and tiresome for genuine cricket fans. Hence the need to limit it to a few weeks....'in and out'. Kind of like one of those university flings (not sure if you have been to uni yet, or had a fling).

And the BCCI having power is irrelevent. It is a matter of principle...if you give the IPL a slot then you have to give one to the APL, EPL, PPL, SAPL, SLPL, NZPL, WIPL etc etc etc too. If that's how you want cricket to be then to be honest I think you're following the wrong sport because cricket has never and should never be like that.

[surfer]

Originally Posted by Hash To be honest it's unrealistic for it to remain the way it is. They will have to change otherwise it will fizzle out. The novelty of it being the first IPL and the first such event in the world carried it through this time. But it will get tiresome after a while. The tournament cannot drag on the way it did this time. As far as TV coverage is concerned, there are things which can be worked out. Two matches a day means one will be shown live and the other can get a highlights slot.....or if they insist on showing both live then they can have them at different times. However you look at it, a domestic T20 competition should not be longer than 3 weeks. People talk that there should be a slot in the FTP for the IPL but I don't agree. Why should it get a slot? What about the APL? And the EPL? And the PPL? Or what if SA join the party too and organise one? Will they all get slots too? So the entire cricketing year will just be a series of domestic T20 tournaments? That's not where I want to see cricket going.

Thats your opinion, which I respect but disagree with. You think it wont survive long if they dont shorten the format....but if they forget about the tv money, the second season wont even happen. Thats crazy idea.

I think IPL will survive very well. I dont think too many other leagues will go as far has IPL has done.

BTW, BCCI is now planning IPPL....a tournament that will feature 200 teams and will go on throughout the year. Nothing is finalized yet, but its under consideration.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by surfer Thats your opinion, which I respect but disagree with. You think it wont survive long if they dont shorten the format....but if they forget about the tv money, the second season wont even happen. Thats crazy idea.

As I said, TV issues can be worked out. The English Premier League (football) only show 2 or 3 live matches per week out of 10 or 11. Yet they still rake in the TV money.

Originally Posted by surfer I think IPL will survive very well. I dont think too many other leagues will go as far has IPL has done.

Yes, it has been a very successful first show. The real test will be to see where it is at in 2 or 3 years time.

[cars112]

Originally Posted by surfer BTW, BCCI is now planning IPPL....a tournament that will feature 200 teams and will go on throughout the year. Nothing is finalized yet, but its under consideration.

I genuinely don't understand this - can you elaborate?

[surfer]

Originally Posted by Hash As I said, TV issues can be worked out. The English Premier League (football) only show 2 or 3 live matches per week out of 10 or 11. Yet they still rake in the TV money. Yes, it has been a very successful first show. The real test will be to see where it is at in 2 or 3 years time.

IPL topped all tv shows. It was number 1 throughout out performing the other popular shows by a huge margin. It is necessary to keep it on the prime time slots to make the most of it. Its a business venture and profit is the bottom line. No compromise will be done with the earnings. The people who invested want maximum returns. There are no two ways about it.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by surfer IPL topped all tv shows. It was number 1 throughout out performing the other popular shows by a huge margin. It is necessary to keep it on the prime time slots to make the most of it. Its a business venture and profit is the bottom line. No compromise will be done with the earnings. The people who invested want maximum returns. There are no two ways about it.

It wont for long if they keep it as it is.

[surfer]

Originally Posted by cars112 I genuinely don't understand this - can you elaborate?

IPPL is in discussions right now with ICC. There will be a suggested 200 teams from around the world. They would be divided into groups and best of the groups will graduate into the higher levels. The matches will be held according to ICC's other tournaments. IPPL will avoid holding matches when some other tournament is happening.

If it works out, the timings will be like this: ODIs will be morning matches, tests will be day matches and IPPL will be night matches.

I dont know much myself. Lets hope the things will slowly break into the media.

[cars112]

Surfer,

Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure I totally understand this concept, still, but as you say, let's wait till it breaks into the media

[sohailalam]

Originally Posted by cars112 Surfer, Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure I totally understand this concept, still, but as you say, let's wait till it breaks into the media

dude hes taking u for a ride and ur going with it.
not the brightest bulb, r ya?

[moumotta]

I don't think any one is thinking of finishing the tournamnet in a shorter time frame. Nor is not telecasting some of the games a practical possibility. TV are the main revenue souce and IPL or the franchisees will not let it go waste.

Modi was talking about 2 tournamnets a year, so again, they are not worried about the duration being too long.

I think in future IPL will extend over a 10 to 12 week period. Some more fanchises will also be added.

[flamy]

^^

Originally Posted by surfer IPPL is in discussions right now with ICC. There will be a suggested 200 teams from around the world. They would be divided into groups and best of the groups will graduate into the higher levels. The matches will be held according to ICC's other tournaments. IPPL will avoid holding matches when some other tournament is happening. If it works out, the timings will be like this: ODIs will be morning matches, tests will be day matches and IPPL will be night matches. I dont know much myself. Lets hope the things will slowly break into the media.

[Farhad]

They should review the system regarding the Fair play award since it benefits naturally the teams playing the Final since it is aggregate that decides the winner. Yesterday we saw the real faces of Dhoni & Co. the way they argued with Billy Bowden etc. on umpiring decisions safe in the knowlEdge that they had won already the Fair Play award.

[cars112]

Originally Posted by Farhad Yesterday we saw the real faces of Dhoni & Co. the way they argued with Billy Bowden etc. on umpiring decisions safe in the knowlEdge that they had won already the Fair Play award.

True. Interesting how Dhoni is hailed as being "ice cool" and a great captain, but we saw how that unraveled yesterday - Dhoni can't handle pressure.

[Ghoshtbuster]

Originally Posted by cars112 True. Interesting how Dhoni is hailed as being "ice cool" and a great captain, but we saw how that unraveled yesterday - Dhoni can't handle pressure.

What happened?

I didnt see the final.

[cars112]

Originally Posted by Ghoshtbuster What happened? I didnt see the final.

Bowden gave Yusuf Pathan not out (correct decision btw), which incensed Mr. "Ice Cool"

[Farhad]

Well there was a smile on the face of "Ice Cool" when only one run was required off the final ball. Was it that he was thinking how stupid he had been giving the final over to a trundler like Balaji?

[cars112]

Originally Posted by Farhad Well there was a smile on the face of "Ice Cool" when only one run was required off the final ball. Was it that he was thinking how stupid he had been giving the final over to a trundler like Balaji?

I think the myth that he's a good captain got exposed yesterday. Don't forget he also hid himself down the order, scared of the pressure of a final. Basically a slogger who can't do it when the going gets tough - and yet the Indians paid 1.5 million for him.

[aashiqmizaaj]

Some leagues do have playoffs yes......to decide who gets promoted from lower divisions to higher divisions.

Yes the National Footbal League aka NFL, Major League Baseball aka MLB and National Hockey League aka NHL all have playoffs to decide who gets promoted from lower divisions to higher divisions. NOT.

Please don't view this in isolation from your perspective - there are alot of different league setups being used in Europe all the way to NA - the IPL happened to adopt a very short version. The IPL was a great success regarless of its length - which was fine by the way bu here's what they need to do to make it even better.

Expand the number of teams - if they can't find enough local teams (which I doubt), invite Pakistan, SL, Bangladesh to participate as well. Right off the bat you can get about 4-6 teams with Lahore, Karachi, Columbo and Dhaka at the very least. Travelling will become an issue but I'm sure it can be easily tackled (NHL manages to work through teams travelling on 4-6 hour flights).

Once they get the number of teams to about twice as what they have, then divide the teams into two groups - have them go through the round-robin stage just like this iteration of the IPL and then come the playoffs. The playoffs need to be expanded. Best of three finals at the very least.

The tournament was a huge success where it mattered, i.e., India. The fact that it was followed elsewhere is just a bonus.

[aashiqmizaaj]

People talk that there should be a slot in the FTP for the IPL but I don't agree. Why should it get a slot? What about the APL? And the EPL? And the PPL? Or what if SA join the party too and organise one?

They are all free to try. PPL for example sounds like a great idea. Question is who's going to come and watch? Or better yet, who's going to come and play. Today there was another blast in Islamabad. Now which foreign players do you think PPL will attract? Harsh reality but true.

[TruSachFan]

Originally Posted by cars112 I think the myth that he's a good captain got exposed yesterday. Don't forget he also hid himself down the order, scared of the pressure of a final. Basically a slogger who can't do it when the going gets tough - and yet the Indians paid 1.5 million for him.

Read
IPL= Indian Premier League

[cars112]

Originally Posted by TruSachFan Read IPL= Indian Premier League

Yep, the Indian Premier League: the one in which the best bowler was a Pakistani, the best batsman and player an Aussie, and in which not a single Indian hit a century. Indian Premier League indeed...

[TruSachFan]

Originally Posted by cars112 Yep, the Indian Premier League: the one in which the best bowler was a Pakistani, the best batsman and player an Aussie, and in which not a single Indian hit a century. Indian Premier League indeed...

yup

[Farhad]

Originally Posted by TruSachFan Read IPL= Indian Premier League

Realize = Dominated mainly by non-Indian players!

Best batsman, best bowler, best all-rounder, best and winning skipper = non-indians.

[TruSachFan]

Originally Posted by Farhad Realize = Dominated mainly by non-Indian players! Best batsman, best bowler, best all-rounder, best and winning skipper = non-indians.

i did realize. Was just responding to cars abt dhonis price of $1.5 million. IPL. You guys can overpay ur players in PPL next year

[Farhad]

Originally Posted by TruSachFan i did realize. Was just responding to cars abt dhonis price of $1.5 million. IPL. You guys can overpay ur players in PPL next year

Thanks, but no thanks. Cricket is not a religion or reason for existence in our part of the world - it is a saner place.

[Sultan Yusuf]

This is not a suggestion to the BCCI, but a general T20 one.

Considering most of the major countries have a domestic T20 competition, why not have a champion's league type event once a year with 3-4 of the top teams of every country competing? I know I would definitely follow it with a bit more interest then. At the moment, I have no affinity for any team - and as exciting as last night's final was, I didn't really care who won, well I suppose I was leaning towards Rajasthan due to the inclusion of Tanvir, Kamran and (the non-playing)YK, but that's just one game.

This will give domestic T20 competitions a bit more meaning and create further interest.

[SameerM]

mayb IPL can go WORLDWIDE !! 2 teams from all test playing countries or somthing

[dinakar]

Originally Posted by Farhad They should review the system regarding the Fair play award since it benefits naturally the teams playing the Final since it is aggregate that decides the winner. Yesterday we saw the real faces of Dhoni & Co. the way they argued with Billy Bowden etc. on umpiring decisions safe in the knowlEdge that they had won already the Fair Play award.

and Bowden turned as a big joker on that incident. ball hit somewhere (in fact on helmet) and they scrambled for a single before caught by Patel. Bowden turned down the caught behind appeal but given it as run from the bat later they changed it to leg-by.

[Farhad]

Originally Posted by dinakar and Bowden turned as a big joker on that incident. ball hit somewhere (in fact on helmet) and they scrambled for a single before caught by Patel. Bowden turned down the caught behind appeal but given it as run from the bat later they changed it to leg-by.

This Bowden is really quite a character. Now hazarding a reprimand from the Mods, I can tell you something my neighbor narrated to me (which I do not have any reason to doubt as the guy is not someone to make things up in my opinion) some time ago when he was working in a five-star hotel in U.A.E. Well, the cricket teams were staying there as were the umpires during an ODI tournament and one fine evening after a match, my neighbor says he stood on the ground floor near reception with his colleagues in utter disbelief when he saw Bowden of all characters hurried by towards the lifts with some very young hottie dressed like a pleasure-girl!

Now the ACU makes and kicks such a big fuss out of the activities of cricketers during matches, even investigating three Paks few years ago for inviting a Russian "prostitute" to their room during a tournament, so what are the precise rules regarding the goraa umpires - are they sacred cows even in this area of mixing pleasure with business?

[Hash]

Originally Posted by aashiqmizaaj They are all free to try. PPL for example sounds like a great idea. Question is who's going to come and watch? Or better yet, who's going to come and play. Today there was another blast in Islamabad. Now which foreign players do you think PPL will attract? Harsh reality but true.

Completely irrelevent comment to this thread and the point I was making.

[aashiqmizaaj]

Completely irrelevent comment to this thread and the point I was making.

Really? So you want the other leagues to be accomodated but the question is whether the other leagues are even viable. What were the selling points of IPL? Can the other countries offer the same? Before they go into setting up their leagues and ask the ICC to accomodate them into schedules, the first thing they have to check is whether they will be viable. PPL has a huge question mark over it. In a country where test matches have empty stadiums, where security is a perceived problem (note I used perceived which in the end is all that matters) just what big names will be attracted?

To make the league look like it's entertaining you need to have the crowds and the lack of them a huge problem in Pakistan right now.

[Inswinger]

Originally Posted by Hash They only play 2 matches per day on weekends. During the week its just 1 match per day. They should forget about TV money and try to improve this tournament as an event. Shortening its length will also make it more appealing to international cricketers since there should not and will not be a window in the FTP for the IPL. A 3-4 month long tourney would be beyond ridiculous, almost to the extent of being laughable.

A longer tournament is a true test of character and talent. Here in the US the baseball season is 6 months long and people still go to the games. I think the IPL was perfecct. Not too long and not too short. Having the teams play everyday to make it a 2 week tournament will cause burn out and injury.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by aashiqmizaaj Really? So you want the other leagues to be accomodated but the question is whether the other leagues are even viable. What were the selling points of IPL? Can the other countries offer the same? Before they go into setting up their leagues and ask the ICC to accomodate them into schedules, the first thing they have to check is whether they will be viable. PPL has a huge question mark over it. In a country where test matches have empty stadiums, where security is a perceived problem (note I used perceived which in the end is all that matters) just what big names will be attracted? To make the league look like it's entertaining you need to have the crowds and the lack of them a huge problem in Pakistan right now.

We have never had a problem with lack of crowds for ODI matches and we wont have any problem with lack of crowds in T20 matches. In fact the previous domestic T20 tournaments in Pakistan have all had huge crowds. The point is not of viability....the point is of precedent and principle. If the ICC give a FTP slot to a domestic tournament in India then there will be others around the world who would have to be given one too. Australia, England and Pakistan are only three examples of countries who have spoken about organising their own T20 Premier Leagues.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by Inswinger A longer tournament is a true test of character and talent. Here in the US the baseball season is 6 months long and people still go to the games. I think the IPL was perfecct. Not too long and not too short. Having the teams play everyday to make it a 2 week tournament will cause burn out and injury.

'True test of character and talent' and 'T20' don't go together. There are only 8 teams so it's not as if they are going to play 50 games in 2 weeks that they will burn out. It's a simple formula really...instead of having 1 game per day from Monday-Friday, just have two. It will knock a good 2-3 weeks off the tournament which definitely dragged on for far too long.

And don't compare cricket with baseball. Cricket is a unique sport in the world in that it is a nation based sport with international matches and tours taking place all year round.

[Inswinger]

Originally Posted by Hash 'True test of character and talent' and 'T20' don't go together. There are only 8 teams so it's not as if they are going to play 50 games in 2 weeks that they will burn out. It's a simple formula really...instead of having 1 game per day from Monday-Friday, just have two. It will knock a good 2-3 weeks off the tournament which definitely dragged on for far too long. And don't compare cricket with baseball. Cricket is a unique sport in the world in that it is a nation based sport with international matches and tours taking place all year round.

Every sport is a nation based sport but every nation has their own domestic leagues as well. The loger the tournament lasts the better the teams will perform.

[aashiqmizaaj]

We have never had a problem with lack of crowds for ODI matches and we wont have any problem with lack of crowds in T20 matches.

Did you watch the recent Pak vs Ban ODI series? Even our bonga kuptaan made the comment about crowds in Pakistan.

The point is not of viability

It is about viability. You can set up a PPL, but if you don't sign international marquee players, you're not making anything special - it will just be a domestic tournament again. Pakistan right now is facing a problem of perceived lack of security. As a result, it is highly likely that certain international players will stay clear and with that ends the hopes of branding the PPL has a major event - a departure from a domestic tournament which is exactly what the IPL managed to do. If not viable then it can't make requests/demands to be accomodated.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by Inswinger Every sport is a nation based sport but every nation has their own domestic leagues as well. The loger the tournament lasts the better the teams will perform.

Are you being serious? Can you actually not see the difference between cricket and other sports in this regard?

[aashiqmizaaj]

Are you being serious? Can you actually not see the difference between cricket and other sports in this regard?

Maybe cricket needs to come out of this and become like other sports if it intends to capture wide market acceptance which in the end is what it needs - money helps make things go much further. NHL, NFL, MLB, NBA in NA all rake in tons of money for both the leagues themselves and the players. In Europe football acheives the same. Cricket is the only international sport that is stuck in a rut with only 6 real teams worldwide.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by aashiqmizaaj Did you watch the recent Pak vs Ban ODI series? Even our bonga kuptaan made the comment about crowds in Pakistan.

Yes I saw it. The crowds in the Lahore games were quite poor but the crowds in domestic T20 games in Pakistan have always been big. Really it is a matter of marketing a series effectively. When the PCB marketed a series well we get huge crowds for test matches too. The England series of 2005 is evidence of this....we saw huge crowds in tests and odis throughout that series.

Originally Posted by aasiqmizaaj It is about viability. You can set up a PPL, but if you don't sign international marquee players, you're not making anything special - it will just be a domestic tournament again. Pakistan right now is facing a problem of perceived lack of security. As a result, it is highly likely that certain international players will stay clear and with that ends the hopes of branding the PPL has a major event - a departure from a domestic tournament which is exactly what the IPL managed to do. If not viable then it can't make requests/demands to be accomodated.

OK....you keep banging on about Pakistan and perceived bla bla (though I think you will be surprised at how many people forget about perceived security problems when they get offered a few thousand dollars for 2 weeks cricket).....but you ignore England, Australia and South Africa? There is no 'perceived lack of security' there. And they have (at least England and Australia) already stated that they are planning their own versions. So they get a FTP slot then? So thats three 6 week slots for domestic T20 tournaments in a year? 18 weeks? Over four and a half months at different times of the year around which no international cricket can be organised? Is that where you want cricket to go? It's not where I want it to go.

[jusarrived]

Originally Posted by Hash Are you being serious? Can you actually not see the difference between cricket and other sports in this regard?

hash , the way its is right now ..don you think its hampering the growth of the game .....imagine someday F1 , tennis , golf or soccer actually starts competing with cricket in the sub continent ......do you see the game surviving ?

[Hash]

Originally Posted by jusarrived hash , the way its is right now ..don you think its hampering the growth of the game .....imagine someday F1 , tennis , golf or soccer actually starts competing with cricket in the sub continent ......do you see the game surviving ?

cricket will always survive in the sub continent. The 'nation based' nature of cricket is what makes it so unique and attractive.

[jusarrived]

Originally Posted by Hash cricket will always survive in the sub continent. The 'nation based' nature of cricket is what makes it so unique and attractive.

wish I cud say the same .....but the fact is more & more youngsters are taking up other sports in our cities ....my aunts and uncles insist on their kids joining basketball , golf or football etc trainings ...but cricket is a big no ,cos they do know only a handfull of kids can actually make it to the national team & take it as profession ....you wont believe I hardly played cricket till I was 15 , cos soccer was huge in my school.....untill money is poured into the game &
somehow make sure more than 20 players can make a livelihood ..... there is huge threat from other sports in subcontinent....more so now that we are seeing quite a few sucessful sportsmen from other sports !

[aashiqmizaaj]

The crowds in the Lahore games were quite poor

I thought you said we never had problems? Just kidding - as you can see we do have some issues with crowds. Yes we might not have problems with T20 but that's an if and when you have tons of money invested, you don't want any ifs ands or buts.

Really it is a matter of marketing a series effectively. When the PCB marketed a series well we get huge crowds for test matches too. The England series of 2005 is evidence of this....we saw huge crowds in tests and odis throughout that series.

You mean when freebies were offered? Or what about the crowd in the second test that left in droves as soon as Afridi was out first ball in the second innings and indication of the collective 'shaoor' of our fans as I like to call it?

We have a problem with crowds. Been like that for a while. When an India/Pakistan clash can't get people in, then you know you have serious issues.

OK....you keep banging on about Pakistan and perceived bla bla (though I think you will be surprised at how many people forget about perceived security problems when they get offered a few thousand dollars for 2 weeks cricket)

So you think PPL will be able to offer a few thousand dollars for 2 weeks? And how is that going to stack up against what the IPL already does and what the other leagues might do? I gave you one example of where the ICC will find it very difficult to justify accomodating one league. The others will have to substantiate their claims - they might, they might not but right off the bat, PPL has a lot of hurdles to overcome.

Over four and a half months at different times of the year around which no international cricket can be organised? Is that where you want cricket to go? It's not where I want it to go.

Sorry to say this but this is exactly where the sport needs to go to become financially viable. Test cricket and ODI cricket is a relic. Who has 40 hours to devote to a match? If you're retired maybe, unemployed perhaps, or if you're a student? Or even 8? If you're a full-time employee and you want to follow a sport, 3.5 hours is the sweet spot. That is where you can go to work, come home and attend a game, get back home and still show up to work the next day. The game is being prepped for the NA market - and it will work when it's that length. This is where the sport is heading.

cricket will always survive in the sub continent. The 'nation based' nature of cricket is what makes it so unique and attractive.

You should say cricket will always survive in India. In Pakistan we've already come to realize that no one bothers to show up to watch test matches and that ODIs are at risk as well.

[cars112]

Originally Posted by jusarrived untill money is poured into the game & somehow make sure more than 20 players can make a livelihood ..... there is huge threat from other sports in subcontinent....more so now that we are seeing quite a few sucessful sportsmen from other sports !

IPL/PPL/EPL etc. will increase the money for more than just 20 just players, will it not?

[jusarrived]

Originally Posted by cars112 IPL/PPL/EPL etc. will increase the money for more than just 20 just players, will it not?

it will...thats the main reason am completely in favor of these leagues !

[Hash]

Originally Posted by aashiqmizaaj I thought you said we never had problems? Just kidding - as you can see we do have some issues with crowds. Yes we might not have problems with T20 but that's an if and when you have tons of money invested, you don't want any ifs ands or buts.

Even then.....the majority, vast majority, of money made from series is not from crowd revenue but from advertising and tv rights. Crowds make a tiny fraction of the money.

Originally Posted by aashiqmizaaj You mean when freebies were offered? Or what about the crowd in the second test that left in droves as soon as Afridi was out first ball in the second innings and indication of the collective 'shaoor' of our fans as I like to call it?

It was already late when Afridi got out as far as I remember. It was approaching close anyway. But they stayed there all day and also all the while England were batting. Plus the 3rd Test in Lahore when Afridi wasn't even playing got huge crowds too.

Originally Posted by aashiqmizaaj We have a problem with crowds. Been like that for a while. When an India/Pakistan clash can't get people in, then you know you have serious issues.

The last test series between Pakistan and India in Pakistan got the same crowds as the England series. It was held just after.....even the bore draw in Faisalabad got big crowds for all five days.

So yes, we do have some problems with crowds for test matches and the odd ODI against Bangladesh. But when a series has been marketed properly we can get huge crowds even for tests. Crowds will not be an issue for a T20 tournament in Pakistan.

Originally Posted by aashiqmizaaj So you think PPL will be able to offer a few thousand dollars for 2 weeks? And how is that going to stack up against what the IPL already does and what the other leagues might do? I gave you one example of where the ICC will find it very difficult to justify accomodating one league. The others will have to substantiate their claims - they might, they might not but right off the bat, PPL has a lot of hurdles to overcome.

PPL will easily offer a few thousand dollars for 2 weeks. There are plenty of companies and individuals in Pakistan with a lot of cash. You might not know it being an expat and seeing the media image of Pakistan. Cash wont be a problem and finding sponsors wont be either. It's not a matter of 'stacking up' against since it is not going to be a competitor. You are still harping on about irrelevent matters. I stated an opinion that the ICC cannot justify putting a slot in the FTP for the IPL and you have stated absolutely nothing so far to counter that argument other than the usual lame Pakistan bashing that we hear every day from everyone.

Originally Posted by aashiqmizaaj Sorry to say this but this is exactly where the sport needs to go to become financially viable. Test cricket and ODI cricket is a relic. Who has 40 hours to devote to a match? If you're retired maybe, unemployed perhaps, or if you're a student? Or even 8? If you're a full-time employee and you want to follow a sport, 3.5 hours is the sweet spot. That is where you can go to work, come home and attend a game, get back home and still show up to work the next day. The game is being prepped for the NA market - and it will work when it's that length. This is where the sport is heading.

This is where you want the sport to head. But the majority of cricket fans don't. Cricket will never be like baseball or football or basketball. Cricket will always be cricket with international bilateral tours of test matches and ODIs with a few T20s thrown in on the side for those with short attention spans. This is what makes cricket unique. It has survived as such and will continue to survive as such. Sure, everything needs to evolve with the times, but it will never go the way you want it to.

Originally Posted by aashiqmizaaj You should say cricket will always survive in India. In Pakistan we've already come to realize that no one bothers to show up to watch test matches and that ODIs are at risk as well.

No, cricket will always survive in Pakistan too. Whether the doom merchants like it or not, it will

[Shehryar]

You should say cricket will always survive in India. In Pakistan we've already come to realize that no one bothers to show up to watch test matches and that ODIs are at risk as well.[/QUOTE]

[Inswinger]

No, cricket will always survive in Pakistan too. Whether the doom merchants like it or not, it will

People in Pakistan are more worried bout getting food and shelter for their families then they are of watching a cricket match. The lack of success during the past few years has really hindered the growth of cricket and support for the team in Pakistan. The political situation has also harmed cricket greatly. It will be a long time before a stadium in Pakistan is even half full for an ODI. We would like to think that cricket will survive in Pakistan but the lack of revenue, support from fans, leadership at the top, and continuing failiure will take its toll on Pakistani cricket. Maybe one day when people dont have to worry about food and electricity cricket will be on top againn Pakistan.

[Shehryar]

Food and shelter situation is worse in india than pakistan,and no cricket is never going to die down in pakistan,trust me.

[12thMan]

if this is not a money making scheme but a domestic tournament then make it a domestic tournament and don't try to influence other countries. Reduce the overseas players to 2 or 3 and give the Indians a chance not hired players from outside. A country of billion people and maybe 40 domestic players get a chance to play and the rest are international players (Indian and foreign). Maybe increase the teams to 14 if that is the plan and the country of that size needs more teams

If it is a money making scheme then you are doing alright

[sohailalam]

Originally Posted by Shehryar Food and shelter situation is worse in india than pakistan,and no cricket is never going to die down in pakistan,trust me.

but india has a much larger middle class than us, and thats the fan base and the player base as well.

[Indiafan]

According to Modi, one new team will be added the third, fourth and sixth year each to the IPL. So its only going to lengthen!

[aashiqmizaaj]

Even then.....the majority, vast majority, of money made from series is not from crowd revenue but from advertising and tv rights. Crowds make a tiny fraction of the money.

No one here said the crowds are going to generate money but when you have an empty stadium just how do you position your offering as being entertaining? Without the crowds you have no atmosphere ala the WC 2007.

PPL will easily offer a few thousand dollars for 2 weeks. There are plenty of companies and individuals in Pakistan with a lot of cash. You might not know it being an expat and seeing the media image of Pakistan. Cash wont be a problem and finding sponsors wont be either. It's not a matter of 'stacking up' against since it is not going to be a competitor.

Let's see, Symonds gets two offers, one from IPL one from PPL, the IPL offers him 1.2 mill the PPL offers a good sum too, but 1.0 mill. Just where do you think Symonds will go? Remember these players are busy with their national committments too. Sorry but the other countries looking to start their own league are thinking too late. There was a huge advantage to being first in market and the IPL managed to clinch it. The other leagues will be competing - if you don't think so that's fine, but last time I checked, there are only one premier leagues in major sports, other leagues while active at the same time end up being lesser versions, attracting B-grade talent. That's just the reality of it. Unless the PPL or any other league for that matter can offer more money, whatever they put out will just be second place.

You are still harping on about irrelevent matters. I stated an opinion that the ICC cannot justify putting a slot in the FTP for the IPL and you have stated absolutely nothing so far to counter that argument other than the usual lame Pakistan bashing that we hear every day from everyone.

Calling a spade a spade is not Pakistan bashing. You said we don't have crowd problems, I pointed out one instance and you conceded. There is a perceived security problem in Pakistan. I don't have to be resident to realize that since I get enough info from residents to give me an idea of what's happening.

This is where you want the sport to head. But the majority of cricket fans don't. Cricket will never be like baseball or football or basketball. Cricket will always be cricket with international bilateral tours of test matches and ODIs with a few T20s thrown in on the side for those with short attention spans. This is what makes cricket unique. It has survived as such and will continue to survive as such. Sure, everything needs to evolve with the times, but it will never go the way you want it to.

It already has. Get with the times. If 2 years ago someone said that there will be an NHL style league held in India with international players, 8 teams setup as franchises with 50+ games in 6 weeks with each game being a sell-out, people would have pushed that person into a mental assylum. As we have it, it happened and it was a great success. Just who are these majority cricket fans by the way? Again my question to you (which you didn't bother to respond because I guess it was irrelevant) is that who has time to watch a 40 hour match? Or an 8 hour match? Someone who's retired? Fine. Unemployed - shouldn't they be keeping themselves busy finding a job? Students - shouldn't they be studying? Someone who has a full-time job cannot follow the sport unless it's condensed down to 3.5 hours - the magic timeframe that is applied to NA sports. There's a reason why it's been brought down to that level you know. The richest market isn't India - it's NA and to make the sport viable for NA you need to bring the length down. T20 cricket has all the ingredients necessary to succeed in NA but ODI and tests don't. Heck tests don't have the necessary ingredients to survive in Pakistan either. Oops I just bashed Pakistan again. Damn that expat mentality.

No, cricket will always survive in Pakistan too. Whether the doom merchants like it or not, it will

Pigeons close their eyes when cats approach. The cat unfortunately is still there. Tests in Pakistan are a dying breed - they have been for a long time. You can call me a doom merchant all you want but that's the reality. PCB has to offer free tickets to get a reasonable crowd into a test match - maybe that's what you meant by marketing.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by aashiqmizaaj No one here said the crowds are going to generate money but when you have an empty stadium just how do you position your offering as being entertaining? Without the crowds you have no atmosphere ala the WC 2007.

Again, you are assuming that there are going to be empty stadiums which is a pretty baseless presumption. The evidence is there...previous T20 domestic tournaments in Pakistan have seen huge crowds and so have test series when they have been marketed well. So there will be the crowds and by your own logic, it will therefore be positioned as 'entertaining'.

Originally Posted by aashiqmizaaj Let's see, Symonds gets two offers, one from IPL one from PPL, the IPL offers him 1.2 mill the PPL offers a good sum too, but 1.0 mill. Just where do you think Symonds will go? Remember these players are busy with their national committments too. Sorry but the other countries looking to start their own league are thinking too late. There was a huge advantage to being first in market and the IPL managed to clinch it. The other leagues will be competing - if you don't think so that's fine, but last time I checked, there are only one premier leagues in major sports, other leagues while active at the same time end up being lesser versions, attracting B-grade talent. That's just the reality of it. Unless the PPL or any other league for that matter can offer more money, whatever they put out will just be second place.

The PPL, the EPL, the APL, the SAPL will not be played at the same time as the IPL therefore it will not be a matter of choice where the leagues are clashing and players have to decide which one to go to and if they go here then they can't go there. Just as Younis Khan is going to Australia this winter to play state cricket and is then later going to play FC cricket in Pakistan and then who knows the summer after he could play in England. Playing in the IPL will not prevent a player from playing domestic cricket elsewhere when there is no clash.

And I don't think anyone has suggested the PPL will be on the same scale as the IPL. It would be a successful league but in its own right.

Originally Posted by aashiqmizaaj Calling a spade a spade is not Pakistan bashing. You said we don't have crowd problems, I pointed out one instance and you conceded. There is a perceived security problem in Pakistan. I don't have to be resident to realize that since I get enough info from residents to give me an idea of what's happening.

It was Pakistan bashing because it was irrelevent to the point I was making. I say the ICC cannot justify giving a FTP slot to the IPL and you respond by Pakistan bashing or, let's say for the sake of keeping you happy 'talking about problems in pakistan'. Relevence? Whatever relevence you see in your own twisted logic, its lost on me.

Originally Posted by aashiqmizaaj It already has. Get with the times. If 2 years ago someone said that there will be an NHL style league held in India with international players, 8 teams setup as franchises with 50+ games in 6 weeks with each game being a sell-out, people would have pushed that person into a mental assylum. As we have it, it happened and it was a great success. Just who are these majority cricket fans by the way? Again my question to you (which you didn't bother to respond because I guess it was irrelevant) is that who has time to watch a 40 hour match? Or an 8 hour match? Someone who's retired? Fine. Unemployed - shouldn't they be keeping themselves busy finding a job? Students - shouldn't they be studying? Someone who has a full-time job cannot follow the sport unless it's condensed down to 3.5 hours - the magic timeframe that is applied to NA sports. There's a reason why it's been brought down to that level you know. The richest market isn't India - it's NA and to make the sport viable for NA you need to bring the length down. T20 cricket has all the ingredients necessary to succeed in NA but ODI and tests don't. Heck tests don't have the necessary ingredients to survive in Pakistan either. Oops I just bashed Pakistan again. Damn that expat mentality.

Yeah it's the North American way. They don't have the mental capacity to concentrate on something for longer than 2 minutes...I guess that's why in American sports there are always stopages too. I tried watching the super bowl a few years ago and every 2 minutes there was a stop in play. Terrible. But anyway....that was irrelevent (see, i admit it rather than make cheap smartarse remarks).

Who has the time to watch a 5 day test match? Plenty of people do....in fact crowds in England have always been big for tests, so have crowds in most grounds in India, and also crowds in Australia. Test cricket is a big tradition and it will take a lot more than a few Americans waving their 'sticks' and throwing their 'curve balls' to change it. Cricket has survived without North America and it will continue to survive without North America. We don't need you and we don't want you either.

Cricket has evolved yes....the basic fabric of cricket has remained and will always be there. It will never be a sport of year long franchised leagues. It will always be an 'international based sport' and its nerve centre will always be test cricket. Whether you or your North American buddies like it or not.

Originally Posted by aashiqmizaaj Pigeons close their eyes when cats approach. The cat unfortunately is still there. Tests in Pakistan are a dying breed - they have been for a long time. You can call me a doom merchant all you want but that's the reality. PCB has to offer free tickets to get a reasonable crowd into a test match - maybe that's what you meant by marketing.

Whether the tickets cost Rs 0 or Rs 150 makes no difference to the PCB or to test cricket in Pakistan since most money is made from advertising and TV rights rather than ticket revenue. Tests in Pakistan are in no where near as bad a state as people like you enjoy making it out to be. The England, India and West Indies series of 2005 and 2006 are ample evidence of this (just check any videos from that series, don't take my word for it).

Personally, I think you should stick to baseball.

[aashiqmizaaj]

We don't need you and we don't want you either.

Oh ho, itna ghussa? Look reality is that you and me are nothing in the grand scheme of things. Money makes the world go round so you can keep all the traditions you want. When cricket wants to join the big-league of multi-million dollar (note dollar not rupees or pounds) then it will need to change itself into something that NA can digest. Money in the end is what makes the world go round.

Personally, I think you should stick to baseball.

Personally, I think you should keep comments like that to yourself. I'm a through and through cricket fan who wants the game to stay alive after my generation leaves this world.

Tests in Pakistan are in no where near as bad a state as people like you enjoy making it out to be. The England, India and West Indies series of 2005 and 2006 are ample evidence of this (just check any videos from that series, don't take my word for it).

I don't have to watch videos, I saw those games, I also saw the India Pak test series of 2004 where in Multan the stadium was virtually empty - that was the first test between the two countries in God knows how many years. Again you can keep thinking that test cricket is fine in Pakistan but reality is that it's not.

see, i admit it rather than make cheap smartarse remarks

I'll stop here. No point in discussing with someone who a) is taking a simple net discussion far too seriously, b) is not willing to listen to the other person's viewpoint without resorting to vieled insults e.g., NA mental capacity.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by aashiqmizaaj Oh ho, itna ghussa? Look reality is that you and me are nothing in the grand scheme of things. Money makes the world go round so you can keep all the traditions you want. When cricket wants to join the big-league of multi-million dollar (note dollar not rupees or pounds) then it will need to change itself into something that NA can digest. Money in the end is what makes the world go round.

Cricket is doing just fine. It has enough money in already and it doesn't need any more. International cricketers live a very good life even without the IPL money. Cricket has never needed NA and will never need NA.

Originally Posted by aashiqmizaaj Personally, I think you should keep comments like that to yourself. I'm a through and through cricket fan who wants the game to stay alive after my generation leaves this world.

A through and through cricket fan who wants test cricket to die and T20 bonanza franchise tamasha to take over as the main form of the game? That's called a bandwagon jumper...you aint even close to being a true cricket fan.

Originally Posted by aashiqmizaaj I don't have to watch videos, I saw those games, I also saw the India Pak test series of 2004 where in Multan the stadium was virtually empty - that was the first test between the two countries in God knows how many years. Again you can keep thinking that test cricket is fine in Pakistan but reality is that it's not.

For every test you mention with poor crowds I can name one with good crowds. The fact is, it aint anywhere near as bad as you make out.

Originally Posted by aashiqmizaaj I'll stop here. No point in discussing with someone who a) is taking a simple net discussion far too seriously, b) is not willing to listen to the other person's viewpoint without resorting to vieled insults e.g., NA mental capacity.

Nice copout.

[sohailalam]

if u take

cars112+longer posts+higher intelligence+veiled personal attacks

u'd get hash

[cars112]

Originally Posted by sohailalam if u take cars112+longer posts+higher intelligence+veiled personal attacks u'd get hash

Speaking of personal attacks...

[sohailalam]

Originally Posted by cars112 Speaking of personal attacks...

mine wasnt veiled TYVM.

u dont really read before replying do you?
like i once said earlier...you aint the brightest bulb

[Indiafan]

Thank you all for your suggestions. Since the BCCI and IPL are non-profit organisations made for the betterment of cricket in general, we have decided to have an auction where the idea which has the highest bid will be implemented. The bid will start at $100 million. The amount can be transferred to Modi's Swiss account for ease in taxation purpose.

[cars112]

Originally Posted by sohailalam mine wasnt veiled TYVM. u dont really read before replying do you? like i once said earlier...you aint the brightest bulb

Ah, it is all very "cool" to repeatedly personally attack a fellow poster - and than have a laugh about it, is it? Well, good for you.

[Indiafan]

Originally Posted by Farhad Realize = Dominated mainly by non-Indian players! Best batsman, best bowler, best all-rounder, best and winning skipper = non-indians.

Who cares when the money and fame pours into India in the end.