Is this What We are About ?

[Saj]

Came home yesterday after attending an Asian mela with my family.

Well what did I see at the mela, some fantastic artists, met one of my wife's favourite singers backstage - what a gent he was, had some great food, saw some folk working extremely hard to make the occasion a success.

What else did I see, Asian lads with pit bull terriers snapping at the heels of visitors at the mela, gangs of asian hoodlums openly drinking alcohol in coke bottles, groups of youths harassing young girls, gangs of youths smoking drugs and taunting the police.

Interesting.

[ZM]

shocking :-0

[ziggy]

The yoot of today need a phainti..manners and respect they know not, i cringe as i write this cos these are the very words that i used to hear in my own youth (yoot to u youngesters) did plenty a stupid thing, wore all the wrong clothes, had silly hair styles, skipped school..even shop lifted under peer pressure but never was being mean, cruel and rude considered cool..maybe we are just getting old Saj..but i hope not..unfortunately it's normally the idiots who make themselves noticable and they are the minority, i hope anyways

[Bitman]

I hate such people. The wannabe gangsters

[MIG]

This is one reason why these people will remain where they are now. Whereas the decent folk will visit these melas and leave , probably with pity for such idiots - these guys will be stuck in their simple lives, forever wondering why the system is against them ! Can you imagine any of these people ever holding a proper job ? I certainly wouldnt hire such a person !

I will tell you something else, its the parents who are to blame - not teaching these people some basic/fundamentals of our religion and culture.... I know it sounds harsh on the parents but really shame on them!

[Sage]

It's not always the parents. Often they try their hardest, but the kids get swept up by their friends into a dangerous culture. And it's a gradual process as well...

But there is hope, as every one of these kids will realize later on how unproductive they've become. The problem is whether they have the intellect or capabilities to drag themselves out of the mess.

[MIG]

Sage, I dont have stats with me but simple anecdotal evidence suggests that youngsters of Pak origin are NOT doing too well in UK. Now I understand that in this forum, all youngsters are either in education or have aspirations etc but I dont think they represent the true picture of our youth in the UK.

I think Parents must take the blame at some level. Why are 10-15 yr olds wandering around streets/malls etc - In this Mela example, if my son had said that he will be out for the day with his friends at the Mela - guess what ( and I am a nosey parker), I would just visit the place to see what he is upto - exactly because of what Saj described above.

Parents need to put their hand up - being a parent in todays world is not easy - we are competing against gangsta rappers, radio, TV, glamour mags etc but our work is cut out - its a war on our children and we have to stand up and fight - no questions about it!

[Sage]

Well Miggy, I must accept my ignorance regarding matters of Pakistani youths in England, although from anecdotes I've heard the situation is far from ideal.

I also didn't realize that the youths were 10-15 and not 16+ as I had thought.

But I do admire your resolve in taking the fight to the destructive media, as children are lost to apathy.

[MIG]

Sorry Sage - I dont think Saj mentioned the ages but I was going by what I have seen in the UK....

I suppose I am just protesting on the attitude of many parents who feel that sending the child to school is good enough - teaching them basics of civics etc are not important.

Mind you , in their defence, a lot of first gen Pakistanis in the UK are uneducated so they arent too well equipped to deal with the pressures of todays life - that may explain their lack of foresight ?

[mulan]

Sorry for butting in here gentlemen, but I agree with most sentiments here.

60 years ago....I suppose it was easier for us...not the same pressures as our children have nowadays....television, internet, peer pressure, discipline in the school system down the toilet....NO RESPECT...yes, I said it, these days youngsters do not have respect. AND we have to compete for our children's attention with these gadgets and all the rest....

And yes...we cannot be with our kids 24/7...and yes, although we try our best to instill in them the values that made us upstanding,good, decent people...we just have to hope and pray that they are strong enough to withtstand the wrong influences, when we are NOT there to guide them...

Sending your kids to school is not good enough....they are taught and get an education to make a living....WE have to give them the education to make a life....

Sorry if I'm sounding soap-boxy...but I worry about our kids...I go to university (one of the eldest students there!) And I'm literally disgusted at the stuff some of our youngsters get up to. And this is South Africa....our kids are taught in school here, that sex outside of marriage is okay...as long as u use a condom...Can u imagine the looooong conversations I have to debate junk like this.....

We have a no-internet after hours and over weekends - policy at home...no satellite tv unless the programmes were okayed before hand...no parties, dances, get -togethers unless okayed before-hand....So, many youngsters think this sound harsh....Like Miggy said it's a war out there...we have the right and responsibilty to protect our own.....Or at the worst, they'll turn up a statistic....at the least, they do something that they'll regret for the rest of their lives....

THUD!

[MIG]

Hear Hear Mulan and that THUD at the end was evil 50Cents taking a dive !

[Daoud]

Originally Posted by MenInGreen Hear Hear Mulan and that THUD at the end was evil 50Cents taking a dive !

Lets hope so
LOL

[Schiller]

sad as it sounds, i am completely with miggy on this.
and rtly so, the blame should be on the parents, their jahalat would have reflected at some pt. I am not sure if spying on kids is something I would agree with. one thing you will learn is that kids will do a thing if they want to even if you spy on them.
while we give them education, we dont encourage them to think constructively and positively. also i think books play a major part in one's upbringing. not just a personal experience but from what I have seen as well.

"that sex outside of marriage is okay...as long as u use a condom..."

nothing wrong with that

[ziggy]

I had a terrible upbringing, i was raised by chimps and look how well i turned out, why blame the parents

[MIG]

Originally Posted by , sad as it sounds, i am completely with miggy on this. and rtly so, the blame should be on the parents, their jahalat would have reflected at some pt. I am not sure if spying on kids is something I would agree with. one thing you will learn is that kids will do a thing if they want to even if you spy on them. while we give them education, we dont encourage them to think constructively and positively. also i think books play a major part in one's upbringing. not just a personal experience but from what I have seen as well. "that sex outside of marriage is okay...as long as u use a condom..." nothing wrong with that

Islamic lynch mob dispatched to Canada....

[Schiller]

ha ha

S()

migsy theyre going to do it if they are, nothing you can do to stop that, i tell ya

[MIG]

Array gussa na dilao commay....

[Schiller]

Originally Posted by MenInGreen Array gussa na dilao commay....

ha ha ha!

to be honest, migsy, the way this youth is turning out to be by the sound of it, irks me probably as much as it does you. I agree with ziggy that they really need a phainti, back in our days, you did something out of line and our mother would give you one that you would really think twice about doing such stuff again. i say that the kids will do what they will cause i managed to slip a lot under the radar as well and no amt of espionage or any such thing could have helped. however, a few things you can keep a check on, like all these gangster nonsense and gangs and all, that you can definitely check upon
parents should also be well aware of the company their kids keep.

However, all that aside, the Onus is primarily on the Parents. If they have no sense of things, its unfair to blame the kids for that.

[catwoman]

I don't think it's fair to blame everything on the parents because they can't monitor their kids all the time. Media and peer pressure and also big influences since negative peer pressure often leads to drugs/smoking/violence/pregnancies, etc. The kids should be mature enough to differentiate between right and wrong.

[Bitman]

Originally Posted by ziggy I had a terrible upbringing, i was raised by chimps and look how well i turned out, why blame the parents

LMAO!!!

[Geordie Ahmed]

the youth of today has NO RESPECT

[zushy_786]

Originally Posted by Mona I don't think it's fair to blame everything on the parents because they can't monitor their kids all the time. Media and peer pressure and also big influences since negative peer pressure often leads to drugs/smoking/violence/pregnancies, etc. The kids should be mature enough to differentiate between right and wrong.

Well I agree that everything shouldn't be blamed on parents, however, it comes down to upbrining and value systems that parents bring and what inturn is taught to the kids....Yes there are some kids who are mature, but most kids aren't mature, and I've seen this espacially with today's youth, they have absolutely no respect for parents and do things that we would never have done and talked back to them...

[Daoud]

More support for the idea that there isnt anything wrong with parents enforcing a little 'discipline' on their children. I would think these kids would be a bit old, but there is a big difference between 'child abuse' and 'keeping them in line'

[ziggy]

Phainti must be introduced asap!!!! of course as long as my favourite nephews and nieces and cousins etc are not subjected to any such phainti

[catwoman]

Well I agree that everything shouldn't be blamed on parents, however, it comes down to upbrining and value systems that parents bring and what inturn is taught to the kids....Yes there are some kids who are mature, but most kids aren't mature, and I've seen this espacially with today's youth, they have absolutely no respect for parents and do things that we would never have done and talked back to them...

Parents influence a child a lot and I think most Pakistani parents set a good example for their kids. Drug/alcohol problems aren't common amongst Pakistani parents. Most kids are taught morals both at home and school, I would have thought.

[Bitman]

A lot to do is with peer pressure and school environment IMO

[catwoman]

Originally Posted by ziggy Phainti must be introduced asap!!!! of course as long as my favourite nephews and nieces and cousins etc are not subjected to any such phainti

Spanking is no way of disciplining! It's going to make the kids even worse and can lead to violence/drugs/alcohol/depression.

[Bitman]

I agree Mona. Sometimes when children are quite young a spank or two is fine but with slightly older children, especially teenagers, hitting them only makes them more rebelious hence possibly leading them on to wrong paths

[Geordie Ahmed]

Originally Posted by Mona Spanking is no way of disciplining! It's going to make the kids even worse and can lead to violence/drugs/alcohol/depression.

i disagree! i think a phainti here and there does the child the world of good - i dont agree with knocking a child senseless BUT i think a desi backhander is acceptable - i dread to think how i would have turned out had i not recieved a thappar or two

[ziggy]

Although i completely disagree with you on the fact that phainti can lead to a life of violence..my comment was more in jest as you can see from my post i don't want anyone that i know to be 'phainteed' to coin a word.

Although a child brought up in an atmosphere of drugs, violence, ignorance etc is more likely to fall into bad habits..usually these are reasons people use to justify their behaviour rather than seek strenghth from adversity..my two pence worth..man i'm bushed..need to go and post something inane quickly!!

[Daoud]

Is it proven that physcial discipline makes it children worse?
I'll admit that I've received a bit myself, but I wouldnt call it over the top or anywhere near excessive.

Sometimes kids are behaving in a manner that the only way to deal with them is a quick smack. Of course taking them to the woodshed so to speak would be taking it way too far

[catwoman]

A child can be disciplined without violence. By beating them, you're just telling them that it's okay to be violent in anger.

[Bitman]

I agree with Mona on this (that there are other ways of discipling children)

[Schiller]

Originally Posted by Mona A child can be disciplined without violence. By beating them, you're just telling them that it's okay to be violent in anger.

I disagree mona, i was spanked all the time and nothing like that got ingrained in me. spanking is different from beating the fellow

[Geordie Ahmed]

Originally Posted by , I disagree mona, i was spanked all the time and nothing like that got ingrained in me. spanking is different from beating the fellow

I agree with comma saab - i think a spanking or light thappar sends the message that there will be consequences if you err

[Schiller]

i am definitely pro phainti till the age of 13, after that mild thappar should do till 15 but then if hes bad by then, you cant do anything
and drugs and violence are something the parent can influence even if they do not partake

[catwoman]

Originally Posted by , I disagree mona, i was spanked all the time and nothing like that got ingrained in me. spanking is different from beating the fellow

That explains why you're not normal. : D

[Schiller]

exactly ga

i dont think any kid should go unphaintied a bit. the kid should also know its not out of malice or anything either though

[catwoman]

Originally Posted by , imagine what i would have been other wise ha ha

A gangsta?

[Geordie Ahmed]

Originally Posted by , imagine what i would have been other wise ha ha

HA HA (damn you smileys - whats happened to them???)

[Schiller]

Originally Posted by Mona A gangsta?

who knows
ha ha

[ziggy]

Fear can stop somene from doing something, it doesnt teach anything other than a pavlov type reaction, my point is that people use sob stories to justify their anti-social or criminal actions, you get just as many nut cases from well to do, never been beat up backgrounds as you do from lesser privilged backgrounds. Anyways a phainti now and again for an annoying kid who isn't related to me, and is not cute is not a bad idea, specially the ones who scream in planes when one is trying to get some shut eye.

Anyways we want to adminster phainti to the crim gangster type teenagers Saj was talking about, not innocent babies..stinky as they maybe..

[Bitman]

Originally Posted by , i dont really like this life without smileys

me too

[Geordie Ahmed]

Originally Posted by Hitman me too

il join the club aswell

[Schiller]

Originally Posted by Geordie Ahmed il join the club aswell

all entra's fault, unsuprisingly if i do say so me self.

its one thing to go awry with poverty or the other extreme
but if you're living in good conditions fairly then this is just unacceptable. how can the parents not know

[ziggy]

So u guys can't see any smileys (i.e the one i used above) or just can't use smileys ?

[Schiller]

we can see yours ziggy and mulan's but for those we have to go to another site to get them

[Geordie Ahmed]

Originally Posted by ziggy So u guys can't see any smileys (i.e the one i used above) or just can't use smileys ?

i can see yours BUT when i post i only see numbers

[ziggy]

I just downloaded the prog from smileycentral, it installs on your tool bar, its quicker (in a small pop up window) than going to advanced reply and using smileys from there

[Schiller]

Originally Posted by ziggy I just downloaded the prog from smileycentral, it installs on your tool bar, its quicker (in a small pop up window) than going to advanced reply and using smileys from there

1. free?

3. any spyware?

[Bitman]

Umar, I can't see ur avatar clearly. What is it?

[Schiller]

Originally Posted by Hitman Umar, I can't see ur avatar clearly. What is it?

Thats my favourite painting from the Sistine Ceiling actually

http://www.abcgallery.com/M/michelan...langelo42.html

[ziggy]

No spyware so far..but i do have every form of anti-spy ware running on my system, they do promise no spyware..but who doesn't

[Geordie Ahmed]

Originally Posted by Hitman Umar, I can't see ur avatar clearly. What is it?

Its a fat bloke with a beard - nothing to write home about

[Schiller]

Originally Posted by Geordie Ahmed Its a fat bloke with a beard - nothing to write home about

Chubbay!!

[ziggy]

But if you do download it and install it, it doeas install as a tool bar on your browser, tell you what i'll do, i'll try uninstall it 2mrw and see what it tries to leave behind and give you guys an update, i would feel a tad bad if suddenly you systems were violated on my recomendation

[Geordie Ahmed]

Originally Posted by , Chubbay!!

Just imagine a grinning smiley here

[Schiller]

Originally Posted by Geordie Ahmed Just imagine a grinning smiley here

i know
ha ha

i added one from that ziggy site

[Bitman]

Originally Posted by , Thats my favourite painting from the Sistine Ceiling actually http://www.abcgallery.com/M/michelan...langelo42.html

May I ask why it is your favourite?

[Daoud]

I would insert the smilie where the guy is on the floor laughing, but as people have said, life without smilies is very hard

[catwoman]

I miss the purple smiley : (

[MIG]

As MiggyBros sidekick , PhaintiBro, once said - Phainti once and fix forever !!

As a parent, I know there are times when talking and raising your voice is NOT enough - the child needs to understand the reason for the Phainti ( light and away from face or head - always ). This should not be uncontrolled anger but a well directed , surgical strike with minimum collateral damage....

[mulan]

Originally Posted by MenInGreen As MiggyBros sidekick , PhaintiBro, once said - Phainti once and fix forever !! As a parent, I know there are times when talking and raising your voice is NOT enough - the child needs to understand the reason for the Phainti ( light and away from face or head - always ). This should not be uncontrolled anger but a well directed , surgical strike with minimum collateral damage....

Hear! Hear! I got some of that as a kid ....and I turned out plenty okay (don't mind the twitching of the head now and again....)

And thanks for getting back to the topic at hand Mig....like my English friend like to say: Getting a bit side-tracked, what?...

I have also come to this conclusion....Whenever we start a thread like this again...PLEASE put an age restriction on it....Firstly, 'cause the under 20's will never see things the way we do....too dilly they are...brain-washed really...
Secondly....they are easily side tracked.....as this thread has proven again...
Thirdly....oh what the heck.....

[MIG]

Nah - Mulan - its that comma person - the nefarious character known as "the side track kid" - trust him to hijack any thread with some mention of Keats, smileys or the word chubbay....

[mulan]

Originally Posted by MenInGreen Nah - Mulan - its that comma person - the nefarious character known as "the side track kid" - trust him to hijack any thread with some mention of Keats, smileys or the word chubbay....

Down with nefarious characters I say!

Down! Down! Down! Down!

okay....now I'm sounding like a bruce springsteen song...

I think I'll post a smiley here especially for comma-person.....

[MIG]

he is a man of limited means and may suffer irreparable damage to his soft tissues ( mostly in his brain... ) after seeing this smiley....

[MIG]

Of course we can say all we want about him since by the time he shows up from sunny Canada - we will all be blissfully asleep!

[mulan]

Originally Posted by MenInGreen Of course we can say all we want about him since by the time he shows up from sunny Canada - we will all be blissfully asleep!

aaaaaahhhh, Miggy, u're finally catching my drift....

PS.....do u SLEEP???????

[MIG]

Very little - baby at home + 2 others require a 24 hour vigil !

[catwoman]

I have also come to this conclusion....Whenever we start a thread like this again...PLEASE put an age restriction on it....Firstly, 'cause the under 20's will never see things the way we do....too dilly they are...brain-washed really... Secondly....they are easily side tracked.....as this thread has proven again... Thirdly....oh what the heck.....

I'm 19 and I find that age restriction highly offensive!!

[Sage]

Originally Posted by Mona I'm 19 and I find that age restriction highly offensive!!

Oh shut up you!

[MIG]

Mona is an honorary above 20....

[catwoman]

Originally Posted by Sage Oh shut up you!

Chubbay. : D

[Sage]

Originally Posted by Mona Chubbay. : D

Ugg, you Canadians and your awful speech.

Yo momma shoulda definitely slapped you when you were younger. Smack the highlights right off your hair...haha

[catwoman]

Originally Posted by Sage Ugg, you Canadians and your awful speech. Yo momma shoulda definitely slapped you when you were younger. Smack the highlights right off your hair...haha

We have awful speech eh? What about you, you Big Mac-eating American?

I didn't need no slaps, homie. : P

[Sage]

Aw come 'err gurrl, you aint need no slap
But lemme give you a dap...

It's funny though, based on your posting, I would've guessed without equivocation that you'd never been hit as a child.

[catwoman]

Originally Posted by Sage It's funny though, based on your posting, I would've guessed without equivocation that you'd never been hit as a child.

How come???

[Sage]

Originally Posted by Mona How come???

Lemme give you a scenario:

Say you meet a young boy/girl who'd never been slapped or even disciplined by his/her parents? How would they generally act?

[catwoman]

Originally Posted by Sage Lemme give you a scenario: Say you meet a young boy/girl who'd never been slapped or even disciplined by his/her parents? How would they generally act?

They'd act like angels, similar to me. : P

What makes you say that though??

[Sage]

Fill in the blanks:

S----T B--T