Who is the most complete batsmen?

After Watching Lara bat today, Just made me think about who is the most complete batsmen in ODI cricket at the moment, in terms of shots all around the wicket, off both the front foot and back foot.

The likes of Razzaq and Afridi are great strikers of the ball, when the ball is pitched up, and allows them to launch in to there drives both on the offside and onside, both lofted and taking the aerial route.

But when it is bowled short, they struggle to get the ball away and are not effective with the Pull and Hooks Shots.

Who in your oppions are the most complete batsmen?

[dan hudson]

In ODI cricket Flintoff's as complete as anyone; pace, spin, full deliveries, short deliveries, he has no trouble with any of them.

[Rob H]

Flintoff is good. Kallis is another person like that maybe jayasuria as well

Sachin Tendulkar. without a doubt.

[Uzi]

For me Brian Lara.

Tendulkar has shots all around the wicket and off both feet. He has better balance as well and a more correct technique. I know I am nitpicking but you have to when its Tendu and Lara.
Michael Bevan no one has mentioned! THE finisher.

[Geordie Ahmed]

Australia have finished THE FINISHER

its a shame that he isnt playing cos he was a brilliant player

[Nawazb]

dravid for me

I dont think he has the ability to destroy a team through natural strokemaking brilliance like a Lara or a Tendu can.

[razzler]

Dravid and Lara for me. I have always rated these two above Tendulkar.

everyone has their own opinions. I just love the way Tendu plays straight down the ground. He is the best combo of grace and power.

[tahaqureshi]

dravid in my books is definitely above tendulkar..
but im not sure he has all the shots

to me, brian lara is the most complete player..and to know that, u don't have to actually watch any of his innings..

just knowing that he has made 400 not out in test cricket is witness to the fact that he must be complete...cuz in an innings of 400, he must've faced every single type of delivery there possibly is..

The fact he has 8 test tons in 26 tests against Oz is more telling. His 153* at Barbados was far better than his 400.
Knowing a batsman has 34 test tons says a lot about him, knowing a batsman can play for 15 years and average 57, and in odis score 13,000 runs, 44 avg, 87 SR.
At the end of the day stats cant describe the genius of these two all time great players.

[the true passionist]

well believe it or not this is how i see it...

In present cricket there are 3 batsman who r the best. No fourth comes close. People may vary in deciding the order but these three r the best ...no fourth comes close....
for me the order is...

1.Lara
2.Inzi
3.Tendulkar

my order is based on class and their contribution to the respective teams and CRICKET as whole..

Now some would say where is Langer, Dravid, Sarwan or Ponting...well they r in the next category

and mind u when u talk about most complete batsman u cant talk about flintoff, razaq or afridi..yes they r gr8 players but not the most complete batsmen..

well let me suggest the most complete batsmen of the future

Martyn, Clarke, Sarwan

i would also not hesitate in throwing Butt as a wild card in aswell

[pakistani pride]

Inzamam for me !

[Awesome Anjum]

Brian Lara, followed by Ponting and Dravid.

[nadeem]

Inzi followed by lara. Inzi first because he plays pace better than anyone including lara.

[Schiller]

I would rate lara and then its open.

[Fessal]

Inzy and Lara but most entertaining are:

Lara
Freddie
Razzaq
Afridi

tendulkar by a mile. i am fed up of this anti Sachin brigade. I can sit here and say Imran and Wasim and Waqar were great yet Pakistanis cant acknowledge the greatest Indian player ever.

[Sami for Captain]

i dont think that dravid is a complete ODI player imo. i think bevan no doubt was the finisher but i must mention kevin pieterson and paul collingwood. even though im not a greAT FAN OF ENGALDN, THEY ARE GUD PROSPEcts

[Fessal]

Guest you are right about Tendulkar who I didn't mention before. Don't know how I forgot him, but in terms of handling mental pressure I am not so sure.

[sajjad]

SACHIN IS AN AWESOME PLAYER..
but dravid is even better.
34 ODI centuries....but cricinfo recetnly showed he has the lowest percentage of wins....when he scores a ton.

his value is not what the players is...its what he does when he is needed. and dravid is much more apt than sachin....much more!

[GamBiTT]

My gut feel after watching all these players over the last 20+ years:

1) Viv Richards (Didn't care about personal achievements)
2) Inzi (Underachiever; Beginning to do justice to his incredible talent at the age 34+)
3) Lara (Overachiever; incredible ability and appetite for runs)
3) Jacque Kallis (Very very capable player for any kind of situation. All the shots in the book with an great cricketing mind to go with it).
4) Ponting (Professional; whats expected of a truly great austrailian batsmen. Incredible talent!)
5) Tendulkar (Personal milestone is the name of the game; but there is certainly a lot of incredible ability involved there too)

Of Note: Dravid (Will probably beat most of Tendulkar's records in Tests for sure, BUT with class!), Langer, Thorpe

Players with abilities like above are incredible to watch when on song.

Looking forward to seeing Flintoff.

[B-Man]

gilchrist

[GamBiTT]

I should have included Gilchirst in my list ahead of many! An asset to Australian team which no other team currently has and may never have.

[sajjad]

Gilchrist for the Red Sox.. baby!

what abt Razzaq or Afridi or Flintoff...they wud make great baseball hitters too.

watch out barry, here comes afridi!!!!

[Cartman]

Graham Gooch in my opinion was the most complete batsman I have ever seen. He played every shot in the book against every type of bowler on any sort of track.

[Civil]

Yousuf Youhana skills wise is among the most complete batsman. He can change gears at will, he can make shots off either foot at will, and He doesnt seem to have difficulty against any bowler now that the pathan hex is over.

If anything that makes Youhana not be mentioned once in this thread is his mental concentration and running between wickets.

Ponting, Lara and Inzi are the top 3 in the world IMO

[Khalil]

I think it's Gibbs

The guy plays every shot in the book and he does it so naturally

I am surprised that some of you guys think it's Kallis. Jack Banister once attributing Kallis slow scoring rate due to his limited scoring shots he has. Kallis does not 'late cut', 'leg glance' or play any finer shots. He mainly drives

[myasirsh]

Lara for me 2..

[AFRIDI 10]

it would ha have to be lara and ponting, but afridi is the most entertaining by far

Come on AFRIDI!! ;)+

[JhonnyBravo]

1.Rahul Dravid
2.Jack Kallis
3. Brian Lara

[Officer Barbrady]

Guys keep in mind the topic was on ODI players. I don't think Dravid and Kallis can make it.

[AFRIDI 10]

kaliis is apretty good ODI payer and so is dravd

[Rob H]

Lara and Martyn are classy players. They have the full package. I also rate Justin Langer becasue he able to dictate the bowling.

[Officer Barbrady]

But Langer doesn't even play one day cricket....

Afridi 10, yes they are but not sure if they can be called the most complete one-day batsmen.

[Rob H]

Originally Posted by Marooned But Langer doesn't even play one day cricket.... Afridi 10, yes they are but not sure if they can be called the most complete one-day batsmen.

He could but they prefer Gilly

Originally Posted by Anonymous tendulkar by a mile. i am fed up of this anti Sachin brigade. I can sit here and say Imran and Wasim and Waqar were great yet Pakistanis cant acknowledge the greatest Indian player ever.

careful "guest". i am saying it nicely this time. dont come on this board to insult Pakistanis and expect to be treated nicely. if you have an opinion express it. but dont make general statements about pakistanis and their inability to recognize great players.

you may be surprised by the fact that there are some smart people on this board who know their cricket and can recognize tendulkar to be the gutless, vertically challenged wonder that he is...who will, along with his captain, sell his family up the river to win a cricket game. you dont agree with them fine, but do NOT insult Pakistanis.

[Fawad]

appeal till you squeal Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:28 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anonymous wrote: tendulkar by a mile. i am fed up of this anti Sachin brigade. I can sit here and say Imran and Wasim and Waqar were great yet Pakistanis cant acknowledge the greatest Indian player ever. careful "guest". i am saying it nicely this time. dont come on this board to insult Pakistanis and expect to be treated nicely. if you have an opinion express it. but dont make general statements about pakistanis and their inability to recognize great players. you may be surprised by the fact that there are some smart people on this board who know their cricket and can recognize tendulkar to be the gutless, vertically challenged wonder that he is...who will, along with his captain, sell his family up the river to win a cricket game. you dont agree with them fine, but do NOT insult Pakistanis.

Spot on bro! ;)+

Tendu isn't even the best indian batsman of all time- Gavaskar is

[Abdul Qadir 236]

ur talking about odis - Tendulkar by a mile.
however, i dont think this is a good basis, it is test matches that show a great player. In tests, 2 guys stand out from the rest and they are Sachin and Lara.

Is that a racist comment too?

[sajjad]

AMIT...uve always been racist ;)

nice to see ya online again

[Uzi]

Once upon a time, Tendulkar was a great player, but he is far from great now.

For me the most complete batsman is Brian Lara.

Watching him bat is poetry in motion.


Where you been Gazza?

[Abdul Qadir 236]

people are quick to forget things in cricket.

it is my view that no one has ever performed as consistently for as long a period of time as Tendulkar.

[sajjad]

considering he starter wayyyy back in 87....he has performed really well.

but dravid......well he has a term to his name...."dravidian" any technically correct shot to me is a dravidian stroke....tendulkar is quite immaculate but more of a striker than a dravidian type of guy.

[hasan316]

LARA all the way. he is the best, can anyone imagine of making 400 in an inning. well he did it. he is too good.

[octavian]

Brian Lara is as complete as it can get.

Inzi, Ponting, Tendu follow him closely.

[Abdul Qadir 236]

well thats a fair point hasan. lara is 2nd to bradman for tall scores but for consistency, for a good technique, for a beautiful balance and strokes all around the wicket, i say sachin.

just a point to note,

lara 8 tons and 51 avg vs Aus
srt 7 and 53
inzi 1 and 34

am not saying thats the only criteria for a good player.

[Dhondy]

Inzi!

Great player of fast bowling?



Have you seen his record against Australia & SA?

stats mean nothing. tendi has the heart of a kitten and the mind of a weasel. so what if he made a couple of tons. the man has no integrity and even less class. he is one of the worse ambassadors for cricket and has been shown up for being just that in the ongoing series against Pakistan.

[Abdul Qadir 236]

typical post from u.

[Dhondy]

What to talk of McGrath, he (Inzi) is Nehra's bunny.

[Civil]

Originally Posted by Afzal What to talk of McGrath, he (Inzi) is Nehra's bunny.

oh man that made my day, you still hurting from the thrashing of your beloveds in Jamshedpur i see.


Inzi has the most time to play his shots, this is not disputed by anyone.

you can make up fantasy statements all you like, but i'd have inzi in my team any day then any paper tiger Indian batsmen that hides behind Virender.

[Abdul Qadir 236]

hides?

in odis Sachin bats at the top and has 10,000 runs, SR 86, 49 average.

tests, he bats in his normal position of 4. nothing wrong with that. india have their 2 openers (though would like jadhav there), dravid then tendulkar.

tests are not odis where u have limited time.

[sajjad]

Originally Posted by appeal till you squeal stats mean nothing. tendi has the heart of a kitten and the mind of a weasel. so what if he made a couple of tons. the man has no integrity and even less class. he is one of the worse ambassadors for cricket and has been shown up for being just that in the ongoing series against Pakistan.

a bit too harsh on the little master there

[firebelly]

For me Tendulkar, then Inzi and then Lara in that order

Tendulkar the best player of spin right now (remember Warne Sydney and Mumbai)
Inzi Best player of Fast Bowling
Lara

Just great player with classy shots although he is selfish but still a class above the rest right now

from older guys
Mark Waugh

[Civil]

Originally Posted by AmitMishra bowls wrongun hides? in odis Sachin bats at the top and has 10,000 runs, SR 86, 49 average. tests, he bats in his normal position of 4. nothing wrong with that. india have their 2 openers (though would like jadhav there), dravid then tendulkar. tests are not odis where u have limited time.

i meant to say that they only score runs when sehwag is making the bowlers sweat for them. not hide behind the order.

Do me a favour somebody bring up India's odi and test record in all the matches Tendulkars played in and bring up Pakistan's record
in all the matches Inzamam has played in.

We already know how 80 percent of Inzi's test centuries have helped Pakistan win, while almost half of Sachin's have but that doesnt seem to be enough to prove that Inzi is a better match winner.

Originally Posted by sajjad Originally Posted by appeal till you squeal stats mean nothing. tendi has the heart of a kitten and the mind of a weasel. so what if he made a couple of tons. the man has no integrity and even less class. he is one of the worse ambassadors for cricket and has been shown up for being just that in the ongoing series against Pakistan. a bit too harsh on the little master there

perhaps Sajjad. but you will see this trend with the indians. they come on the scene, full of confidence and loaded with talent. with time the talent fades away either due to lack of mental strength or application. they are then left scraping for victories, as is the case with tendulkar who is now bowling outside leg stump in ODI's. I used to have respect for him but after having seen his habit of adamantly sticking to the crease when out and empolying the most negative of negative tactics, I have no doubt about the lack of integrity and class in the vertically challenged one.

the same thing has happened to ganguly, pathan is following the same fate and sehwag will eventually get there too.

[Abdul Qadir 236]

negative tactics! from a woolmer fan! oh heard it all now.

as cricket is a team game, teams win matches. only Imran fully understood the team concept. Aus dont have the best players but they have the best team.

[zorawar]

we should judge based more on Test matches than ODI cricket.

Current players:
Lara
Sachin

All others are either not consistent enough or have not reached the heights these two have. Dravid leads the way among the rest... and Inzi may be counted in the top 3 of his era when he retires if he continues to blossom as he has after becoming captain.


Retired:
Sir Viv Richards
Javed Miandad
Greg Chappell

[Abdul Qadir 236]

well said

Originally Posted by AmitMishra bowls wrongun negative tactics! from a woolmer fan! oh heard it all now.

you still have much to hear and a lot more to learn Gary. what negative tactics has BW employed since becoming coach of Pakistan??? stop making empty claims....never mind, thats all you ever do! 2

[sajjad]

its not his claims that our empty..its his....oh nm...no personal comments...

woolmer rocks =B)

[Civil]

Originally Posted by AmitMishra bowls wrongun negative tactics! from a woolmer fan! oh heard it all now. as cricket is a team game, teams win matches. only Imran fully understood the team concept. Aus dont have the best players but they have the best team.

so you admitting India is a bad team, shocking coming from you

and btw Mcgrath is the best seamer, Warne is the best leg spinner, Hayden and Langer are the best two openers, Gilchrist is the best wicketkepper batsman +most destructive batsman, and Damien martyn and ricky ponting (also best captain) are currently among the top 6 or 7 bats in the world far far ahead of SRT.

[Abdul Qadir 236]

its still as easy to separate the wheat from the chaff here.

they dont have a lara, a sachin, a murali, an akram.
real players of genius but guys who do the basics well and get rewarded for it. they also come through the best system around.

India are not a bad team when the play aggressive cricket.

[Hash]

what negative tactics has woolmer employed since becoming coach of Pakistan gary? need examples to back up your accusation!

otherwise anyone can post anything and just run away.

e.g. You know that guy called Tendulkar. Well......he is actually Martin Luther King in disguise.


See ridiculous comment......no evidence to back it up. Just like your comment about Woolmer and negative tactics.

[Abdul Qadir 236]

well not playing 11 specialists in tests for a start.

not going for kill when teams are down.

defensive fields.

bowlers who bowl to bore teams not fire them out.

[zorawar]

Woolmer and negative tactics need to be discussed in a different thread IMO... not on this thread which is about the most complete batsmen...

my 2 cents...

[Hash]

well not playing 11 specialists in tests for a start.

which tests are you talking about? I presume ones for which we had about a million injuries. In which case, what do we do? Pick somebody who can bowl but can't bat from domestic cricket ahead of someone who is a better bowler and batsman?


not going for kill when teams are down.

seemed to do that quite well in Bangalore chappy!


defensive fields.

didn;t realise woolmer was out there on the field telling players where to go. By the way......you notice his defensive fields in Bangalore?

bowlers who bowl to bore teams not fire them out.

like who? And who should have played instead of them? And why would they be able to fire the opposition out?

[Hash]

sorry zorawar......didn't read your post. You must have posted while i was typnig up. Gary if you want to reply......start a new thread.

[Abdul Qadir 236]

yeah some people will use any platform on which to attack me.

as i said, lara and sachin stand miles ahead of the rest.

i also have a lot more time for the greats of the 80s like greg chappell, miandad and richards who had to play some fearsome fast bowling.

hash, 1 swallow doesnt make a summer. it seems to modern fans that it does leave it at that.

[Team Slayer]

Originally Posted by AmitMishra bowls wrongun well not playing 11 specialists in tests for a start. not going for kill when teams are down. defensive fields. bowlers who bowl to bore teams not fire them out.

and here we go again! did you watched the Banglore test?! if that's not going for the kill, i dont know what is! and btw, the same game chacha Wright set perhaps the most disgusting defensive field EVER! yah, im talking about the one set right after Afridi had thrashed the Indian bowlers to all parts of the ground...

and btw, the bits and pieces shahid afridi KICKED a$$...so much for the "11 specialists theory"!

[Hash]

gary- please get off your high horse. We don't 'use any platform to attack you'. You're not that important. But if you say something ridiculous without backing it up with examples and facts.....a place like PakPassion where there are a lot of people who know a lot about cricket.....it is not going to go unnoticed. Yuo have to accept that and stop being so bleedin sensitive. Nobody is picking on you, ok!

[Wiji]

When the topic of 'best batsman' in the world comes up, people always underrate Ricky Ponting. This man is truly class. I can easily put him up with Brian Lara and above Inzamam no matter how good a batsman Inzamam is. Ponting makes batting look SO easy. He is very less talked about in the cricketing world with respect to his skills. In my opinion his one of the best batsman ever in cricket. His style technique is almost perfect. Whether it's the pull or drive... he makes it look so easy. And his record is there to back him up. He has another good 7-8 years left in him and by that time he would have broken most of Tendulkar's records I think.

[Abdul Qadir 236]

someone ignored the post where i said about the team who played attacking cricket won the game and where i said 1 swallow doesnt make a summer.

hash there u go again.

[Rob H]

Stop the bickering children

[Abdul Qadir 236]

i dont like to watch Ponting to be honest. he is another one of the batsmen who improved when the top bowlers were leaving the scene and pitches flattened out across the world.

[Saqib]

A complete batsman can...

-Play all the shot in the book

-Can do what is captain ask

-Can play in all conditions seaming etc

-Can finsh the game

-Can win the match

-Can play both forms of the game corectly, not just after ODI series, he plays a test match still that ODI looking shape.

-Can play spin & fast good

-who doesn't get away with some bouncers

-Can play in pressure

-Can play with tailenders

-A batsman who not always looks for his own records but only play's for his team ! (Not Kallis )

[Dhondy]

ATYs, arre bhai what are you talking about? Sehwag will go the same way? Just because he is an Indian?

C'mon yaar. Don't join the loonies.

[razzler]

Originally Posted by saqib A complete batsman can... -Play all the shot in the book -Can do what is captain ask -Can play in all conditions seaming etc -Can finsh the game -Can win the match -Can play both forms of the game corectly, not just after ODI series, he plays a test match still that ODI looking shape. -Can play spin & fast good -who doesn't get away with some bouncers -Can play in pressure -Can play with tailenders -A batsman who not always looks for his own records but only play's for his team ! (Not Kallis )

That has to be Dravid and Lara sir. ;)+