Zardari you are a complete idiot

[Pindiwal]

I am sorry folks but I am just getting sick and tired of Zardari in America. Does he not have any Gharaat left in him. He is being treated like a bull by the Americans, they are just pulling the rope around his neck. I feel this rope is being slowly tied around Pakistani nation slowly. I feel helpless and ashamed by our leaders, infact these guys are not leaders, they are complete and utter idiots running Pakistan at present.

First of all if Afghanistan and Pakistan need to sign an agreement or discuss things, why have they gone to america to do this. I feel a lot more has been done behind the doors which are purely designed against Pakistan and only Pakistan.

Zardari has not said anything worthwhile whilst speaking, all he has done is said thanks to America for letting him visit. Zaradari you are a complete embarrassment, I know Gen. Musharraf was a complete disaster but at least he could speak, you cant even do that. Why could you not talk about Pakistan's interests. Why could you not fcking say to American's why are interfering in FATA and Baluchistan.

Zardari why could you not even utter a few words in Pakistan or Kashmir's interest, do you not have any guts. It seemed you were scared that if you said anything you would be shot right there and then.

The Americans were giving Afghan president more preference over Zardari at every press conference, this was embracing. Zardari you should hold your head in shame. You are not even fit to be a local councillor let alone a president of Pakistan.

[161]

PPP are complete idiots for having this idiot as leader of their party.

[Oxy]

Has he met up with Sarah Palin yet?

[OZGOD]

Originally Posted by Pindiwal Why could you not talk about Pakistan's interests. Why could you not fcking say to American's why are interfering in FATA and Baluchistan.

Two words:

FOREIGN AID

[Momo]

Originally Posted by Pindiwal I know Gen. Musharraf was a complete disaster but at least he could speak

[offstump]

does zardari even know where his is? he is not a leader, and doesn't care about pakistan's interests...pakistan is the laughing stock of the world, our country has so much potential, its people deserve much better than this...we are now in the same category as afghanistan, hence "AfPak" we get raped repeatedly by american masters and come back begging for more...

[Gabbar Singh]

On a positive note he does have a cool smile -

[waqar_ahmad]

I have not even read the OP, dont need to. Yes, zardari is a complete idiot.

[Butcher face spotter]

What else can he do given the situation Pakistan currently faces ?
A leader can only be as confident as the options in front of him allow him to be. Empty Gestures like refusing to see Gordon Brown are all pointless given the anarchy Pakistan is sliding down day by day.

[truth]

Foreign Aid ................. As we all know we are running with Foreign Aid for many years ............ till we stand on ourselves without asking for any foreign aid no matter who becomes President of Pakistan he will just act as pay master to the Americans ....................................... Even a small country like North Korean President will gain respect from the world as that country does not depends on foreign aid given as like Pakistan ...........................

It seems Zardari is begging to US to get some military equipments especially drones to attack his own people ..............

[Sheikh]

Originally Posted by Butcher face spotter What else can he do given the situation Pakistan currently faces ? A leader can only be as confident as the options in front of him allow him to be. Empty Gestures like refusing to see Gordon Brown are all pointless given the anarchy Pakistan is sliding down day by day.

He can put the country ahead of his personal interests.

I know, I know, it's too much to ask for, but hey, we can dream right?

[Pindiwal]

Originally Posted by Gabbar Singh On a positive note he does have a cool smile -

Well this is not a cool smile, this is smile of BAGARAAT, who does not give a toss about his people and country.

If a BAGARAAT like Zardari can get his own wife killed, then Pakistan is nothing in front of him.

[ehjaz]

Zardari is a top class incompetent piece of $***. and I am sorry I feel appalled by PPP, how the hell they could let him be president. they do not have a single person who could have been qualified for the position. Anyways, its all fault of people of Pakistan............they keep on trusting and expecting miracles....

[Waseem]

Don't you guys believe in democracy????
At least he is not a dictator, give him another 3 years to prove himself.

[Pindiwal]

Originally Posted by Waseem Don't you guys believe in democracy???? At least he is not a dictator, give him another 3 years to prove himself.

oh dont be so bloody pathtic mate, in other 3 years i dont think there will be anything left of Pakistan.

folks pls wake up and realise whats happening in Pakistan, i am simply appalled that people on pp are so relaxed about the whole situation in Pakistan.

[Momo]

Originally Posted by Pindiwal folks pls wake up and realise whats happening in Pakistan, i am simply appalled that people on pp are so relaxed about the whole situation in Pakistan.

What do you suggest? Time for another military takeover perhaps?

[Pindiwal]

Originally Posted by Momo What do you suggest? Time for another military takeover perhaps?

You are totally misisng the point here, no matter who it is military or civilian leader they have to put Pakistans interest first. I am afraid in the last 10 years all over leaders have decided to put and protect American interests first. This is the whole problem no one is thinking of Pakistan.

[Momo]

^
I agree with you on the seriousness of the mess we find ourselves in. I also appreciate your concern, and all Pakistanis are concerned, even worried, at the moment - at least they should be.

I was referring to your 'folks please wake up and realize ...' bit and asked what you had in mind for people (who were awake) to do, to stop the downslide.

Normally people have very few concrete things to say once they run out of things such as 'the government should quit being corrupt and realize this, that or the other'. I for myself firmly believe that whatever the remedy of our current situation may be, it definitely is not what mainly caused this disaster in the first place, i.e., military coups.

For starters let's stop eulogizing people like Mush.

[Pindiwal]

Originally Posted by Momo ^ I agree with you on the seriousness of the mess we find ourselves in. I also appreciate your concern, and all Pakistanis are concerned, even worried, at the moment - at least they should be. I was referring to your 'folks please wake up and realize ...' bit and asked what you had in mind for people (who were awake) to do, to stop the downslide. Normally people have very few concrete things to say once they run out of things such as 'the government should quit being corrupt and realize this, that or the other'. I for myself firmly believe that whatever the remedy of our current situation may be, it definitely is not what mainly caused this disaster in the first place, i.e., military coups. For starters let's stop eulogizing people like Mush.

ok i understand where you are coming from. the only solution i have is for the opposition to organise demostrations, why can't they do a long march like they did for the judges.

the last long march only made as far as Gujranwal and Zardari surrended. i feel Nawaz Sharif and the rest of opposition are not playing an active role, they need to do a lot more, they need to make a point to the government and americans that enough is enough, we cannot be made into a scapegoat anymore. This is a question of Pakistans survival. i already think its slightly late but still a lot can be done.

Mr Sharif and the rest of opposition please wakeup and do something for this country before the americans arrive.

[Momo]

Originally Posted by Pindiwal ok i understand where you are coming from. the only solution i have is for the opposition to organise demostrations, why can't they do a long march like they did for the judges. the last long march only made as far as Gujranwal and Zardari surrended. i feel Nawaz Sharif and the rest of opposition are not playing an active role, they need to do a lot more, they need to make a point to the government and americans that enough is enough, we cannot be made into a scapegoat anymore. This is a question of Pakistans survival. i already think its slightly late but still a lot can be done. Mr Sharif and the rest of opposition please wakeup and do something for this country before the americans arrive.

I agree with you on the need for Sharif to take a stand. The reality though is not very promising. The way Sharif is playing nice in front of the US audience is disappointing.

I can pretty much imagine what sort of conversations go on in his frequent meetings with foreign (read US) 'dignitaries' (who make it a point of meeting with Sharif who in turn is more than willing to meet them). The diaries of those dignitaries must be interesting reading (scenes of Zardari and Sharif competing with each other in their promises of cooperation with the US).

I hope one of them (as there's no third realistic alternative) shows some backbone albeit belatedly. However, bad as things may be, the democratic process should go on (protests and long marches are legitimate). No way should the military intervene.

[Savak]

Originally Posted by Waseem Don't you guys believe in democracy???? At least he is not a dictator, give him another 3 years to prove himself.

Sarcasm at its best.

[Gabbar Singh]

Do you guys honestly think he's an idiot?

I mean theres a difference between being stupid, and being immoral,corrupt and bad for the nation.

This is a man who has accrued BILLIONS of dollars over the years and has outsmarted political heavyweights like Nawaz Sharif and Pervez Musharraf to come from nowhere (politically) to now being the most powerful and influential man in Pakistan - seems pretty shrewd if you ask me.

[IMMY69]

like his famous late wife said 'democracy is the best form of revenge'

uh huh...

[IMMY69]

Originally Posted by Gabbar Singh Do you guys honestly think he's an idiot? I mean theres a difference between being stupid, and being immoral,corrupt and bad for the nation. This is a man who has accrued BILLIONS of dollars over the years and has outsmarted political heavyweights like Nawaz Sharif and Pervez Musharraf to come from nowhere (politically) to now being the most powerful and influential man in Pakistan - seems pretty shrewd if you ask me.

i for one dont think he is an idiot...

the real idiots are the people who voted him in!!!!!!!!

[Garuda]

Originally Posted by IMMY69 i for one dont think he is an idiot... the real idiots are the people who voted him in!!!!!!!!

Perfect !!!

I will repeat what I had posted before in another thread.

Democracy is the way forward but it has to mature. To make it mature it needs to given time. If so many ppl are frustrated with PPP then they should not come to power next time. If they come then its not their fault. Its the voters who voted them.

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by Garuda Perfect !!! I will repeat what I had posted before in another thread. Democracy is the way forward but it has to mature. To make it mature it needs to given time. If so many ppl are frustrated with PPP then they should not come to power next time. If they come then its not their fault. Its the voters who voted them.

Exactly. PPP needs to voted out, or removed through democratic means. And that includes protests by the way.

No matter what happens, the army MUST stay away from politics. There is a reason why India, with its fare share of corrupt politicians, is so far ahead of us. We should learn something from India honestly.

[Momo]

Originally Posted by IMMY69 i for one dont think he is an idiot... the real idiots are the people who voted him in!!!!!!!!

At least the idiots have the consolation of voting somebody in. More often than not in Pakistan though, nobody asks the idiots before donning a black shervaani and going, 'mere aziz hamwatano ...'

Edit - For those not aware with urdu, shervaani is the equivalent of a suit, and mere aziz hamwatano is urdu for o ye idiots.

[Pindiwal]

Originally Posted by Gabbar Singh Do you guys honestly think he's an idiot? I mean theres a difference between being stupid, and being immoral,corrupt and bad for the nation. This is a man who has accrued BILLIONS of dollars over the years and has outsmarted political heavyweights like Nawaz Sharif and Pervez Musharraf to come from nowhere (politically) to now being the most powerful and influential man in Pakistan - seems pretty shrewd if you ask me.

No its not because its shrewed that Zardari has found himself into this position, its because he got rid of his wife and then came into power due to the sympathy vote.

Also American's needed a person who was the most venerable, and guess what Mr Zardari fitted the requirement perfectly. This man is not even fit enough to be a local councillor let alone a president of Pakistan.

Its not Zardari who has bought himself to power through a master stroke, its the Americans who need another Musarraf in power.

[Garuda]

Originally Posted by waqar_ahmad Exactly. PPP needs to voted out, or removed through democratic means. And that includes protests by the way. No matter what happens, the army MUST stay away from politics. There is a reason why India, with its fare share of corrupt politicians, is so far ahead of us. We should learn something from India honestly.

though India has progressed in terms of maturing its democracy but it still has a quite a lot to improve. There is a long list of thing which needs to improve which we all know. But even within those short comings its evolving

Atleast we can see better manifesto from political parties.
The issues raised by voters are better than before.
Voters making the politicians accountable and every political leader want to prove that he indeed doing development ( some show false promise too).

If you see the main criteria of voters in 2009 it was development as the first and terrorism second. Religion, caste and reservation which used to be a big factor in past elections have gone down.

So I am optimistic that given more time it will even get better and more and more educated people with take politics as their profession. Else this is being grabbed by goons and criminals.

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by Garuda though India has progressed in terms of maturing its democracy but it still has a quite a lot to improve. There is a long list of thing which needs to improve which we all know. But even within those short comings its evolving Atleast we can see better manifesto from political parties. The issues raised by voters are better than before. Voters making the politicians accountable and every political leader want to prove that he indeed doing development ( some show false promise too). If you see the main criteria of voters in 2009 it was development as the first and terrorism second. Religion, caste and reservation which used to be a big factor in past elections have gone down. So I am optimistic that given more time it will even get better and more and more educated people with take politics as their profession. Else this is being grabbed by goons and criminals.

There is always room for improvement. But India has matured greatly, in terms of democracy and economy. Yes, there are still a lot of glitches in the system, but they will g away with time.

If you notice, even in Pakistan, there is a greater awareness now. The govt is actually scared of the people after a very long time. You saw what happened during the long march. It is a positive change

[Garuda]

Originally Posted by waqar_ahmad There is always room for improvement. But India has matured greatly, in terms of democracy and economy. Yes, there are still a lot of glitches in the system, but they will g away with time. If you notice, even in Pakistan, there is a greater awareness now. The govt is actually scared of the people after a very long time. You saw what happened during the long march. It is a positive change

Yes definitely I can feel that there is better awareness. Atleast its seen here on PP

Also few days back there were a group of journalists were in India and on NDTV discussing about politics in Pakistan and believe me they were very clear about what it needs to be done.

I wonder why the democracy is not taken up when there are such people and I can't believe that their number is less. The cities in Pakistan should have enough of these intellectuals to drive a country.

[IMMY69]

Originally Posted by Momo At least the idiots have the consolation of voting somebody in. More often than not in Pakistan though, nobody asks the idiots before donning a black shervaani and going, 'mere aziz hamwatano ...' Edit - For those not aware with urdu, shervaani is the equivalent of a suit, and mere aziz hamwatano is urdu for o ye idiots.

It goes back to the same old argument...can democracy really work in a country where there is 90pct illiteracy, mass poverty and corruption at each and every level of society and where there are many unscrupilous indivuals out to take advantage of this? whether these people are religious leaders, corrupt ploticians, industrialists, they are all out for the same thing...

In reality, there is no point calling Zardari or any of these corrupt people idiots when the solution to all this is educating, housing and feeding the poor....

we can blame india, usa or the anti christ but the truth is the people have to unite and and make a stance once and for all otherwise how can there be a change?

[Momo]

Originally Posted by IMMY69 It goes back to the same old argument...can democracy really work in a country where there is 90pct illiteracy, mass poverty and corruption at each and every level of society and where there are many unscrupilous indivuals out to take advantage of this? whether these people are religious leaders, corrupt ploticians, industrialists, they are all out for the same thing... In reality, there is no point calling Zardari or any of these corrupt people idiots when the solution to all this is educating, housing and feeding the poor.... we can blame india, usa or the anti christ but the truth is the people have to unite and and make a stance once and for all otherwise how can there be a change?

Couldn't agree more with the un-bold part.

As for your question in bold (which is a valid one except you are off on illiteracy rate by a long way), the answer is equally old. That is, if democracy can't work (and you may well be right), what can? People often use this argument of lack of education amongst voters (and it is a valid argument) but they always fall short of suggesting an alternative.

[Jamal Shah]

Originally Posted by IMMY69 It goes back to the same old argument...can democracy really work in a country where there is 90pct illiteracy,

It is not so much the fact that the population is illiterate - the point is that Pakistan was/is for the Wadera. The lack of education and all is mainly consequence of the fact that Pakistan was/is for the Wadera

[IMMY69]

Originally Posted by Momo Couldn't agree more with the un-bold part. As for your question in bold (which is a valid one except you are off on illiteracy rate by a long way), the answer is equally old. That is, if democracy can't work (and you may well be right), what can? People often use this argument of lack of education amongst voters (and it is a valid argument) but they always fall short of suggesting an alternative.

lack of education and poverty etc ofcourse leading to people being vulnerable to smooth talking politcians, religious leaders whoever...

alternative? in my humble opinion, it is not that the country needs an alternative, moreover it requires a revolution. In another thread about martyrs i questioned how killing others could possible make people martyrs...true martyrs would surely be those who are willing to make real sacrifices so as to try and help the country. The country is in dire need of martyrs who give up their comfy lives and try to effect real change.

i know there are thousands out there already who help people, set up schools and hospitals for the poor...but in reality this is not enough and is pecisely why i say a revolution needs to take place.

what would be your suggestions?

[Blistering Barnacle]

I don't blame the population for having Zardari as our president, I blame the PPP.

[Momo]

Originally Posted by IMMY69 what would be your suggestions?

I agree with you when you say that it will take a long long time to come out of the mess we are in (if we ever do) by evolution. A bloody revolution may be a quicker fix.

The thing though is that revolutions come when they come. Revolutions come in a certain atmosphere of injustice (which is there for some time now) but they also need a trigger and these triggers are very unexpected and can't be brought about deliberately. So the revolution may already be in the making (for all we know) but it will come when it will come. Nothing much that an ordinary man can do about it.

My suggestion (for ordinary folks) will be to do everything they can to stop any more coups on democracy and try to vote more and more intelligently. Media (inspite of its commercial nature) is giving a lot of feedback to the public (in addition to the beghairati in the form of ZeeTV type dramas I might add). The recent long march and events leading up to it were a step in the right direction.

But I admit that things are not looking good. Too many internal players, backed by many international players are playing their game and the odds against the ordinary man are huge.

[lakha84]

Originally Posted by Gabbar Singh On a positive note he does have a cool smile -

I AM SO HORNYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY WHERE IS PALIN !!!!

[TAK]

Originally Posted by Gabbar Singh On a positive note he does have a cool smile -

nervous and ingratiating