Selection Inconsistencies

[Zaz]

Im dissapointed with the current test squad:

1) How unbalanced it is with several middle order batsman and only 2 openers

What was the need for bhanjha and fawad as well as moyo, malik, yk and misbah

2) More importantly the bowling looks weak with 2 spinners and 3 pacers

Finally why are we going from one fast bowler 2 the other?

Why arent the likes of sohail khan and m talhaa not been given another chance, instead looks like 2 new debutants are gonna be given a chance

What happens if they dont perform in their 1st tests, they gonna be out 2 and some new boys in again?

Why the inconsistency in selection we all know this aint gonna solve or produce anything?

[Amir]

There are one too many middle order batsmen, espicially with Kamran already taking up with one of those spots. But what do you expect with nepotism. Any blind idiot can see Faisal Iqbal does not, does not, does not deserve to be there.

There should be an extra pacer.

[srh]

I agree that there are too many middle order batsmen. I would not have selected Faisal Iqbal and Misbah-ul-Haq for test series.

[dblock]

We saw Sohail Khan and Talha, both looked very raw on tracks where it was a deathbed for fast bowlers, except Gul, whose class shone through, but even he went for quite a few whilst getting 6 wickets. If those tracks get produced again, what do you expect will change?

Rauf was not too surprising a choice, given that Akhtar, Tanvir, Arafat are out.

I guess the only other guy that may have been in contention is Rana Naveed (I'm totaly discounting Wahab Riaz based up on his rubbishness)

Who else is there to choose?

[Zaz]

Originally Posted by dblock We saw Sohail Khan and Talha, both looked very raw on tracks where it was a deathbed for fast bowlers, except Gul, whose class shone through, but even he went for quite a few whilst getting 6 wickets. If those tracks get produced again, what do you expect will change? Rauf was not too surprising a choice, given that Akhtar, Tanvir, Arafat are out. I guess the only other guy that may have been in contention is Rana Naveed (I'm totaly discounting Wahab Riaz based up on his rubbishness) Who else is there to choose?

Sohail and talhaa shouldve been given another opportunity, my point is why aint these bowlers given a run, instead of moving from one to other

[abc_to_xyz]

Rana Naved was a good choice as a frontline bowler..


Btw, aren't there 4 pacers? Aamer, Gul, Razzaq and Rauf?

[Zaz]

Originally Posted by abc_to_xyz Rana Naved was a good choice as a frontline bowler.. Btw, aren't there 4 pacers? Aamer, Gul, Razzaq and Rauf?

Yeah i didnt count razzaq as he is an allrounder and not an out and out new ball bowler

[AZ]

for the 5 billionth time, Rana is FINISHED

[Stewie]

well razzaq did well maybe he would too.. who knows..

[Zaz]

How come fazl e akbars not been given a proper chance/run?

[saeed-sohail]

Originally Posted by srh I agree that there are too many middle order batsmen. I would not have selected Faisal Iqbal and Misbah-ul-Haq for test series.

I agree with Faisal Iqbal but misbah? Wasn't he our best batsman in last full series we played when he saves us from a whitewash with his back to back hundreds.He will be one of the key players against SL spinners at no 5.Selections I am disappointed with are Iqbal and Razzaq .what has Razzaq done to merit a test place?He should have played couple of domestic season before getting a test call up.don't gi to them easy make them work hard to earn it.

[Mercenary]

Talha is with the A squad and Sohail is with the AWOL squad

[muzher]

Of course Bhanja shouldn't be there. However Misbah definately SHOULD be there. For Malik to make the team he needs to perform with his bowling, as I don't believe he fits well into the team on his batting alone.

[sehsan]

I would have loved to see Nasir Jamshed in there inplace of Faisal, other that then team is fine. Razzaq is there because of experience as our fast bowling looks very thin in experience.

[Amjid Javed]

Have to agree there are some inconsitancies with selection. Atleast one of Talha or sohail khan should have been picked, pakistan get rid of players way to quickly. Also i dont know why pakistan has picked so many middle order batsmen! Iqbal sadly will be around for a while it looks like.

[dblock]

Pakistan should have gambled with another opener instead of a middle order batsmen.

Ahmed Shehzad smashed Murali and Mendis to pieces in a warm-up game last time round, unfortunately a few vulnerabilities were exposed in T20 format.

[Inswinger]

This is a huge series for Misbah and Butt. Their time could be running out with Fawad and Nasir knocking on the door.

[Inswinger]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed Have to agree there are some inconsitancies with selection. Atleast one of Talha or sohail khan should have been picked, pakistan get rid of players way to quickly. Also i dont know why pakistan has picked so many middle order batsmen! Iqbal sadly will be around for a while it looks like.

Agree. Talha, Wahab, and Sohail have been treated badly.

[AZ]

Talha or Wahab should have definitely been there...no need for the proven failure aka Faisal Iqbal

[Wassixpakistani]

I would faisal a go although he didnt deserve it , but the one thing that really makes me mad is Butt's selection,the guy is out of form and this would have been the perfect debut for shehzad as well.It is arguable that T20 aint
butt's or shehzad's game but shehzad deserves a place more because he is more talented than butt.I hope Shehzad gets a test cap soon , only then will he learn how to play proper cricket shots,patience and the importance of his wicket

[AZ]

so you want Shehzad to play even though he lacks (according to you) the 3 most important aspects of being a Test-level batsman...great!

[Wassixpakistani]

Originally Posted by AhmedZulfiqar so you want Shehzad to play even though he lacks (according to you) the 3 most important aspects of being a Test-level batsman...great!

Well he cant develop those 3 most important aspects until he plays some test cricket . He's 17 and talented,much better than manzoor(AkA Dravid part 2) but lacks patience , Test cricket is the type of cricket that teaches players how to be patient and the importance of their wicket.I think the selectors should really consider him for the test series against Nz and Aus.
or do you want him to make a test debut at the age of some 30+ perhaps.

[AZ]

I want him to make his Test debut when he has been through the grind of domestic cricket...for now, that is the only place where he should be playing cricket...if we have chosen Khurram to partner Salman at the top, then he should be allowed to play at least the full series if he has the ability to stay at the wicket...and I think he has already scored a 50+ score against the Lankans

[Wassixpakistani]

Originally Posted by AhmedZulfiqar I want him to make his Test debut when he has been through the grind of domestic cricket...for now, that is the only place where he should be playing cricket...if we have chosen Khurram to partner Salman at the top, then he should be allowed to play at least the full series if he has the ability to stay at the wicket...and I think he has already scored a 50+ score against the Lankans

You are right abut one thing that shehzad should get a test debut after spending a good time in the domestic , but i think that he should be judged on talent alone because talent can take you a long way.I know he can perform well and some test experience at this age will do him good him for a long time if he's given a chance just like amir . Its good to see that amir has been selected in the test squad because he has enough talent to be our next akram,I also think that manzoor is also highly talented but only for tests and maybe ODIs , im hoping he has a good series and not fail to impress our so called *selectors* and destroy his chances of ever playing int.cricket again

[zimran72]

Originally Posted by Zaz Sohail and talhaa shouldve been given another opportunity, my point is why aint these bowlers given a run, instead of moving from one to other

Isn't Aaqib changing their actions... but they did look raw...

Originally Posted by abc_to_xyz Rana Naved was a good choice as a frontline bowler..

Not him for tests... he has never performed in tests...

[zimran72]

Originally Posted by Wassixpakistani Well he cant develop those 3 most important aspects until he plays some test cricket . He's 17 and talented,much better than manzoor(AkA Dravid part 2) but lacks patience , Test cricket is the type of cricket that teaches players how to be patient and the importance of their wicket.I think the selectors should really consider him for the test series against Nz and Aus. or do you want him to make a test debut at the age of some 30+ perhaps.

lol Dravid part 2... if manzoor is that good then he has a great career in front of him.

Faisal was selected because he plays spin well... despite being completely rubbish against pacers

[Xoib]

Lack of Shezad is mind boggling during the Australian series he showed he had a great technique to face the new ball but he gets dropped from the test squad due to 20/20 performances.

[AZ]

Originally Posted by Wassixpakistani You are right abut one thing that shehzad should get a test debut after spending a good time in the domestic , but i think that he should be judged on talent alone because talent can take you a long way.I know he can perform well and some test experience at this age will do him good him for a long time if he's given a chance just like amir . Its good to see that amir has been selected in the test squad because he has enough talent to be our next akram,I also think that manzoor is also highly talented but only for tests and maybe ODIs , im hoping he has a good series and not fail to impress our so called *selectors* and destroy his chances of ever playing int.cricket again

at 17 you do not need Test experience, especially if you're an opener...it is too harsh an environment for 99% of young players...let him figure his game out in FC cricket before he faces the tough reality of playing for his country...he is only SEVENTEEN, he has a very long career in front of him...for now, I would rather have guys who are promising and who have produced the goods domestically, such as Khurram and Fawad

[Savak]

Originally Posted by AhmedZulfiqar at 17 you do not need Test experience, especially if you're an opener...it is too harsh an environment for 99% of young players...let him figure his game out in FC cricket before he faces the tough reality of playing for his country...he is only SEVENTEEN, he has a very long career in front of him...for now, I would rather have guys who are promising and who have produced the goods domestically, such as Khurram and Fawad

Playing for eternity in domestic cricket did not help Imran Nazir, Hasan Raza so what makes you think it will help Shehzad? What crap is this, Domestic Cricket, Domestic Cricket. Why do people and many ex test cricketers assume that our players are playing in a county or shefield shield type competition?

I have had enough of players playing in a zero value addition domestic competitions, international cricket is the real deal, this is how we developed many of our great players by putting them in the firing line. Its upto them whether they quickly adjust to the challenges or not.

[Savak]

Originally Posted by Xoib Lack of Shezad is mind boggling during the Australian series he showed he had a great technique to face the new ball but he gets dropped from the test squad due to 20/20 performances.

Khurram Manzoor scored an unbeaten 60 not out in the last test he played. Salman Butt was also in great form in the Sri Lankan test series. Shehzad will get his test match eventually if Manzoor fails to make the most of his opportunity.

[AZ]

do I really need to answer that for you? do you know more about cricket than those ex Test cricketers? if the guy can cut it at that level, then only he can be expected to produce at the international level as well...do you not think guys like Khurram, Fawad and Khalid Latif should be given a chance ahead of him? what has he achieved in any form of cricket to merit a chance in the Test lineup?

as for how we developed our great players, think of the umpteen number of players who were given their debut too early and were lost forever...for every one guy that made it, there were 4 players like him who failed to cut it at the top

[IAJ]

Why can't they play Kamran Akmal as a specialist opener and bring in Sarfraz Ahmed as WC. Kamran Akmal can be the opner we have been looking for in tests. I'll be happy if our openers can put up 50+ for the first wicket.

I would have loved to see wahab riaz here (i know he is on Aus tour). But let us see where the first test takes us to.

[AZ]

it would be an unnecessary change...we have 2 pretty good openers, plus Kami adds a little class to the lower middle order

[Sheikh]

Well, they're bound to be inconsistencies when you change chief selectors every frickin series!

[*sallu*]

I am fine with 2 openers, although i would have preffered nasir jamshed, atleast that gives the openers confidence that their places are secured in the line up.

[love pak]

Originally Posted by Zaz Im dissapointed with the current test squad: 1) How unbalanced it is with several middle order batsman and only 2 openers What was the need for bhanjha and fawad as well as moyo, malik, yk and misbah 2) More importantly the bowling looks weak with 2 spinners and 3 pacers Finally why are we going from one fast bowler 2 the other? Why arent the likes of sohail khan and m talhaa not been given another chance, instead looks like 2 new debutants are gonna be given a chance What happens if they dont perform in their 1st tests, they gonna be out 2 and some new boys in again? Why the inconsistency in selection we all know this aint gonna solve or produce anything?

this is pakistan cricket if you dont like it stop watching it

[srh]

Originally Posted by Wassixpakistani Well he cant develop those 3 most important aspects until he plays some test cricket . He's 17 and talented,much better than manzoor(AkA Dravid part 2) but lacks patience , Test cricket is the type of cricket that teaches players how to be patient and the importance of their wicket.I think the selectors should really consider him for the test series against Nz and Aus. or do you want him to make a test debut at the age of some 30+ perhaps.

So Manzoor being a Dravid part 2 is a bad thing?

[Monsee]

Originally Posted by AhmedZulfiqar for the 5 billionth time, Rana is FINISHED

I think you should change you sigi to:

'#1 Fan and Ashamed Supporter of Salman Butt...Cannot Deal With It Now!!!'

[AZ]

Originally Posted by Monsee I think you should change you sigi to: '#1 Fan and Ashamed Supporter of Salman Butt...Cannot Deal With It Now!!!'

unlike you, I am not a fan of mercilessly bashing our players...I supprt them fully and wholeheartedly...Butt sahab will prove his class again, and Inshallah sooner rather than later

[Monsee]

Originally Posted by AhmedZulfiqar unlike you, I am not a fan of mercilessly bashing our players...I supprt them fully and wholeheartedly...Butt sahab will prove his class again, and Inshallah sooner rather than later

There is a difference between being a blind fan and one who can see that Mr. Buttaaaah is just useless at Int'l level!

You clearly cannot comprehend what a player with class looks like even if he passed you by on the street...Buttaaaah and class only happens when he is running others out, dropping catches, helping the opposing teams with his dreadfully slow and idiotic batting without any effort to rotate the strike etc. etc.

The sooner this leech is off our team, even in tests, the better; mark my words, he will be a sitting duck against the Lankan bowlers throughout the series!

[AZ]

useless now, is he? show me ANY other opener in the current team who has more 100s than him...show me ANY other opener who has a better ODI average than him, with let's say a minimum of 30 ODI games...check a dictionary for the meaning of the word useless before you start using it

and your words are duly marked and noted...I hope I won't have to bump this thread when Butt makes the big scores

[Monsee]

Originally Posted by AhmedZulfiqar useless now, is he? show me ANY other opener in the current team who has more 100s than him...show me ANY other opener who has a better ODI average than him, with let's say a minimum of 30 ODI games...check a dictionary for the meaning of the word useless before you start using it and your words are duly marked and noted...I hope I won't have to bump this thread when Butt makes the big scores

1- Pretty much all 100s either against India or minnows, what an achievement; India is the same team which could not even buy a single win in the Super 8 stages despite supposedly playing the best cricket of their history these days!
2- Better ODI average, see point 1; most of runs hae been scored against weaker oppositions but when he comes against a better team, he starts playing like he is playing a test match...hence, messing up the rhythm of rest of the batsmen
3- I will be glad to see you bump this thread because I am quite sure I will be bumping this before you do and you know why

[AZ]

1 - I see, so not India the team that has won a Test series against us, England and Australia, smashed England and SL in an ODI series and were T20 Champs...that just didn't happened then, did it? way to use the your selective memory

2 - The same batsmen who can't stay the crease for any number of deliveries? What do you expect him to do when wickets are tumbling around him (the recent Aus. series)? hit out or try to stay at the crease and build a respectable total?

3 - I know why, 'cos you will be munching on a delicious slice of humble pie

[Monsee]

^^^I would be glad to eat the humble pie but I am sure Buttaaaah will drop it too while trying to deliver it to me

[fahimszd]

Fawad and FAISAL should not have been in the team. FAWAD I think is not a test player (May be I am wrong), but everyone will agree with this that BHANJA saheb do not deserve a place in the team by any means, there are alot of players much much much better than him.

[AZ]

Fadi is a fighter and a determined guy, I have no doubt that if given the chance, the lad will be a solid Test player

[waqar_ahmad]

I want to see Fawad in the lineup. One thing, he is a left hander, and it would be good to have one in the middle order.

[AZ]

poor guy, I think his selection was a token gesture unfortunately...the rotting piece of feces aka Faisal Iqbal is more likely to get a game before Fadi

[muhammad saad]

Originally Posted by fahimszd Fawad and FAISAL should not have been in the team. FAWAD I think is not a test player (May be I am wrong), but everyone will agree with this that BHANJA saheb do not deserve a place in the team by any means, there are alot of players much much much better than him.

Or may be he is not a cricket player at all?

[Zaz]

Hopefully rauf will be a given a good opportunity in this series

I think he ll do well and could be the seamer that we are looking for backing asif and gul

[Wassixpakistani]

Originally Posted by srh So Manzoor being a Dravid part 2 is a bad thing?

You still dont get it do ya ? I dont need to answer this one , figure it out yourself

[Wassixpakistani]

Originally Posted by AhmedZulfiqar at 17 you do not need Test experience, especially if you're an opener...it is too harsh an environment for 99% of young players...let him figure his game out in FC cricket before he faces the tough reality of playing for his country...he is only SEVENTEEN, he has a very long career in front of him...for now, I would rather have guys who are promising and who have produced the goods domestically, such as Khurram and Fawad

This is the type of thinking that makes me go , Thats the main reason our cricket declined soo much in the past few years , we thought that our youngsters would be destroyed if exposed to int.cricket at early ages.........well look at some of our youngsters that werent destroyed but instead became our great cricketing icons.

Wasim akram debuted at the age of 18
Waqar younis debuted at the age of 20 or 21
Inzimam-ul-haq also debuted at the age of 20 or 21
Shahid Afridi debuted at the age of 16!!!!!!!
Umer Gul debuted at the age of 18
Younis Khan debuted at the age of 23
Imran khan debuted at the age of 19
Abdul razzaq debuted at the age of 17

Debuting a Youngster will always have a risk but we produced some of the best cricketers by taking risks.
Like Savak said FC cricket is only for recognizing a talent , not for grooming it.Young Cricketers can only be helped when they play Int.Cricket , only then we will be able to know the quality,strength and weaknesses of a player

[mali9]

Originally Posted by srh I agree that there are too many middle order batsmen. I would not have selected Faisal Iqbal and Misbah-ul-Haq for test series.

yeh you are absoulutly right agree with you on fiasal iqbal but not agree on misbah brother same misbah saved 2 tests agianst india in india last year so i dont know why u dont want misbah in team.

[srh]

Originally Posted by mali9 yeh you are absoulutly right agree with you on fiasal iqbal but not agree on misbah brother same misbah saved 2 tests agianst india in india last year so i dont know why u dont want misbah in team.

Mohammad Yousuf is back. If we are going to play both Shoaib Malik and Abdul Razzaq then Misbah is the odd man out from middle order.

[AZ]

Originally Posted by Wassixpakistani This is the type of thinking that makes me go , Thats the main reason our cricket declined soo much in the past few years , we thought that our youngsters would be destroyed if exposed to int.cricket at early ages.........well look at some of our youngsters that werent destroyed but instead became our great cricketing icons. Wasim akram debuted at the age of 18 Waqar younis debuted at the age of 20 or 21 Inzimam-ul-haq also debuted at the age of 20 or 21 Shahid Afridi debuted at the age of 16!!!!!!! Umer Gul debuted at the age of 18 Younis Khan debuted at the age of 23 Imran khan debuted at the age of 19 Abdul razzaq debuted at the age of 17 Debuting a Youngster will always have a risk but we produced some of the best cricketers by taking risks. Like Savak said FC cricket is only for recognizing a talent , not for grooming it.Young Cricketers can only be helped when they play Int.Cricket , only then we will be able to know the quality,strength and weaknesses of a player

how about you make a list of guys who did NOT make it?

[Wassixpakistani]

Originally Posted by AhmedZulfiqar how about you make a list of guys who did NOT make it?

Your not getting the point .

[AZ]

and neither are you my friend...it is obvious to all except you that Shehzad has a lot of improvements to make to his game, and the only way he can do that is by playing regularly...and the only forum for him to do that is in domestic cricket

[Saqs]

Perhaps the choice of only opting for 2 openers in the squad is to give the openers some confidence and a decent run, without them worrying about whether they're position is under fire every innings.

[Wassixpakistani]

Originally Posted by AhmedZulfiqar and neither are you my friend...it is obvious to all except you that Shehzad has a lot of improvements to make to his game, and the only way he can do that is by playing regularly...and the only forum for him to do that is in domestic cricket

That means your not getting the point ? s
Only When we take risks in debuting Youngsters against Top quality teams can we produce world class cricketers like we used to before.Im happy to see khurram and amir been given a try but not happy for shehzad.
Im telling you this again That DOMESTIC CRICKET aint for grooming , its for recognition only.Nobody will find flaws in his batting in domestic , Only when he plays some Int.Cricket that he can improve himself.
Its quite simple to understand If you put your mind to it

[AZ]

you really think they will stick to Shehzad if he continues to struggle on the international level?
on the contrary, he will be unceremoniously dumped for an X number of years, and will be forgotten...it makes a lot more sense for him to play regularly at that level, and at least have a basis for selection other than being a bright talent...there are already rumours going around that he is Qadir's pet, so the only way he can get rid of that tag is by making the runs at FC level...Shehzad has not shown any outstanding qualities that make me believe that he is a better opener than Khurram Manzoor and Khalid Latif...these guys have had to bide their time for their chance, and should be given the opportunity to show their worth

[Wassixpakistani]

Originally Posted by AhmedZulfiqar you really think they will stick to Shehzad if he continues to struggle on the international level? on the contrary, he will be unceremoniously dumped for an X number of years, and will be forgotten...it makes a lot more sense for him to play regularly at that level, and at least have a basis for selection other than being a bright talent...there are already rumours going around that he is Qadir's pet, so the only way he can get rid of that tag is by making the runs at FC level...Shehzad has not shown any outstanding qualities that make me believe that he is a better opener than Khurram Manzoor and Khalid Latif...these guys have had to bide their time for their chance, and should be given the opportunity to show their worth

Manzoor is a better opener than shehzad in terms of shot selection but shehzad in terms of batting technique is way ahead of manzoor.That is what i am saying.Shehzad has a really good batting technique that is easily the best in our whole damn team.He can play any type of shot he wants to but suddenly he has a rush of blood to play ariel shots that costs him his wicket,that is his weakness,he needs guidance and the only way he is gonna get that if he plays some good int.cricket.He doesnt need to make runs in FC because he has the ability to make more runs in Int.Cricket.To me he is our best opener for the future alongside Jamshed.Khalid latif doesnt even deserve to be a 12th man , They guys a total Leg-side khilari like

[AZ]

I could say the exactly the same thing about Shehzad, you know...the guy doesn't really have an offside game at all, only looks to hit through square leg...and technique will only get you so far, it's the thing between the ears that counts as well...if technique was the most important quality, guys like Sehwag and Chanderpaul would never be picked

[Monsee]

If a player like Shehzad is being compared to Khalid Latif and then it is argued that his game is inferior to that Leg Side Tullaay Baaz...then I can only say Wow!

[Wassixpakistani]

Originally Posted by AhmedZulfiqar I could say the exactly the same thing about Shehzad, you know...the guy doesn't really have an offside game at all, only looks to hit through square leg...and technique will only get you so far, it's the thing between the ears that counts as well...if technique was the most important quality, guys like Sehwag and Chanderpaul would never be picked

I dont know , I think Shehzad has a good off-side and leg-side game but he doesnt have footwork , During Pak-Aus series he was being praised by the commentators as well and was considered to have the best technique in the whole team.i was quite suprised by the way he way he handled the Aus bowling attack against which our best batsman were struggling to score singles off , he could have gotten some serious runs against them hadnt he played reckless shots.He is really aggressive and can score runs if required against any type of bowling attack,He looked good against the South africans in the warm-up match but then again he plays some reckless shot that ends innings , that is his weakness.You are right that technique is not everything , talent has also got to be their.Shehzad has got the talent and the technique but needs guidance.Guys like Sehwag and Chanderpaul proved that technique wasnt everthing . Although these guys had major weaknesses but they were in a team of legends who guided them well and didnt let the pressure get on them . Shehzad wasn't lucky enough and was batting with a guy who only knows how to play the ball straight to fielders and get out.If this guy is guided well then he can become a permanent in our team but i think your right that we should give him some time before he gets a test cap , ill be glad if he's picked for NZ tour , that would give him much needed experience.
For now he should be a regular in ODIs i think and his partner should be nasir jamshed , for T20 we could have shahzaib and nazir , for test we could have butt and manzoor.