Opinions on marriage involving young teenagers

[Waq]

There is an article in the Daily Mail about a 12 year old girl from Yemen who died whilst giving birth. My first reaction was that she was to young to be a wife and mother and actually thought it was a bit gross. I then got thinking about the Islamic perspective and the fact that our Prophet Mohammed married a very young teenager. It is meant to be Sunnah to replicate our Prophet Mohammed's actions.

Am I wrong to feel that the 12 year old involved in the article was too young to be married? Should we accept it as ok for such marriages to occur?

I have created this thread to increase my knowledge of Islam and is in no way an attack on a countries culture. I welcome views from all.

I have included the link and copied the article below.

Please discuss....


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...REE-days.html#




Child bride, 12, dies in Yemen after struggling to give birth for THREE days



A 12-year-old Yemeni child bride died after struggling to give birth for three days, a local human rights organisation said.

Fawziya Abdullah Youssef died of severe bleeding on Friday while giving birth to a stillborn in the al-Zahra district hospital of Hodeida province, 140 miles west of the capital Sanaa.

Child marriages are widespread in Yemen, the Arab world's poorest country which has a population of 23million, where tribal customs dominate society.


More than a quarter of the country's females marry before age 15, according to a recent report by the Social Affairs Ministry.



Youssef was only 11 when her father married her to a 24-year-old man who works as a farmer in Saudi Arabia, said Ahmed al-Quraishi, chairman of Siyaj human rights organization.

Al-Quraishi, whose group promotes child rights in Yemen, said that he stumbled upon Youssef in the hospital while investigating cases of children who had fled from the fighting in the north.

'This is one of many cases that exist in Yemen,' said al-Quraishi.


'The reason behind it is the lack of education and awareness, forcing many girls into marriage in this very early age.'

Impoverished parents in Yemen sometimes give away their young daughters in return for hefty dowries.


There is also a long-standing tribal custom in which infant daughters and sons are promised to cousins in hopes it will protect them from illicit relationships.

Al-Quraishi said there are no statistics to show how many marriages involving children are performed every year.

The issue of child brides vaulted into the headlines here two years ago when Nujood Ali, aged ten, went by herself to a courtroom and demanded a judge dissolve her marriage to a man in his 30s.


She eventually won a divorce, and legislators began looking at ways to curb the practice.

In February, parliament passed a law setting the minimum marriage age at 17. But some lawmakers are trying to kill the measure, calling it un-Islamic.


Before it could be ratified by Yemen's president, they forced it to be sent back to parliament's constitutional committee for review.

Such marriages also occur in neighboring oil-rich Saudi Arabia, where several cases of child brides have been reported in the past year, though the phenomenon is not believed to be nearly as widespread as in Yemen.

[Rana]

i dont know what to say on this article or thread, but can anybody answer this question, if people are marrying children because of the sunnat of the Holy prophet s.a.w, how can they be sure that the holy prophet s.a.w had sexual contact with his bride. im sure this couldnt have been the case, because the holy prophet s.a.w had plenty of children, he had been married to hazrat aisha for many years yet she did not get pregnant once.

[hasanb]

I dont know what to say either, i think we need to wait for someone more learned to comment on this here.

As far as the facts about the above case are concerned...sexual contact with a child like that is paedophile behaviour pure and simple.

[12thMan]

Am I wrong to feel that the 12 year old involved in the article was too young to be married? Should we accept it as ok for such marriages to occur?

No to both

[Golden arm]

Originally Posted by Rana i dont know what to say on this article or thread, but can anybody answer this question, if people are marrying children because of the sunnat of the Holy prophet s.a.w, how can they be sure that the holy prophet s.a.w had sexual contact with his bride. im sure this couldnt have been the case, because the holy prophet s.a.w had plenty of children, he had been married to hazrat aisha for many years yet she did not get pregnant once.

very logical!

[Hail-Akram]

Agree with Rana and hasanb ...
Guys, my knowledge about islam is absolutely zero. Can any1 tell me why did Prophet Mohammed marry a young teenager. My guess would be to give her social status or protection or something of that sort. But as I said I lack knowledge, so would like to know from you guys...

[TAK]

Originally Posted by Hail-Akram Agree with Rana and hasanb ... Guys, my knowledge about islam is absolutely zero. Can any1 tell me why did Prophet Mohammed marry a young teenager. My guess would be to give her social status or protection or something of that sort. But as I said I lack knowledge, so would like to know from you guys...

culturally acceptable at the time is the response i always get...

although a man of that age marrying a girl of that age today would surey raise a few moral eyebrows...?

[hasanb]

Originally Posted by TAK culturally acceptable at the time is the response i always get... although a man of that age marrying a girl of that age today would surey raise a few moral eyebrows...?

Well marrying a 12 year old as this yemeni man did would do more than raise just a few eyebrows, i believe it is a criminal offence in quite a number of ways and he would be hauled to jail.

[nabeel_1990]

it has been said that it was the culture of that time, i found this from islamqa website:

Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: "The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married me when I was six years old. Then we came to Madeenah and stayed in Bani al-Haarith ibn Khazraj. I fell ill and my hair started to fall out (due to the illness; then it grew back thick again). My mother Umm Roomaan came to me whilst I was on a swing and my friends were with me. She shouted for me and I came to her, not knowing what she wanted. She took me by the hand and led me to the door of the house. I was out of breath and we waited until I had calmed down, then she took some water and wiped my face and head, then took me inside. There were some women of the Ansaar in the house, and they said: " ‘Alaa al-khayri wa’l-baraka wa ‘ala khayri taa’ir (blessings, best wishes, etc)." My mother handed me over to them and they tidied me up, then suddenly the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was there. It was mid-morning, and they handed me over to him. At that time I was nine years old." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 3605).

‘Urwah said: "Khadeejah died three years before the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) migrated to Madeenah. He stayed alone for two years or thereabouts, then he married ‘Aa’ishah when she was six years old, and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 3607)

The phrase "he married ‘Aa’ishah" means that the marriage contract was drawn up; the marriage was consummated later on, when she was nine.

Muslim reports from al-Zuhri, from ‘Urwah, that ‘Aa’ishah said that she was taken to him when she was nine years old, and she took her toys with her. He died when she was eighteen years old. Muslim also reports a similar account from ‘Aa’ishah via al-Aswad. He reports from ‘Abdullaah ibn ‘Urwah from his father that ‘Aa’ishah said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married me in Shawwaal and consummated the marriage with me in Shawwaal."

‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married her when she was six years old and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old, and she stayed with him for nine years." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 4738)

Al-Bukhaari calls this chapter of his Saheeh "Baab inkaah al-rajul wuldahu (or waladahu) al-sighaar (Chapter on a man marrying off his young children)." The fact that Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
". . . and for those who have no courses [periods] [(i.e., they are still immature) their ‘iddah is three months likewise, except in case of death] . . ." [al-Talaaq 65]
is an indication that it is permissible to marry girls below the age of adolescence. This is a good understanding, but the aayah makes no specific mention of either the father or the young girl. It could be said that the basic principle concerning marrying children is that it is forbidden unless there is specific evidence (daleel) to indicate otherwise. The hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah states that her father Abu Bakr married her off before the age of puberty, but there is no other evidence apart from that, so the rule applies to all other cases.

Al- Muhallab said: "[The scholars] agreed that it is permissible for a father to marry off his young virgin daughter, even though it is not usually the case to have intercourse with such a young woman."

(The above was summarized from Fath al-Baari Sharh ‘ala Saheeh al-Bukhaari)

In summary, then, it is permitted to contract marriage with a young girl and to hand her over to her husband to stay with him before she reaches adolescence. As for consummating the marriage, this does not happen until she is physically able for it. Thus the matter becomes quite clear. Do you see anything wrong with a man living with his young wife in one house, bringing her up and teaching her, but delaying consummation until she is ready for it? We ask Allaah to show us truth and falsehood and to make each clear. And Allaah knows best.

[nabeel_1990]

Originally Posted by hasanb Well marrying a 12 year old as this yemeni man did would do more than raise just a few eyebrows, i believe it is a criminal offence in quite a number of ways and he would be hauled to jail.

but if the prophet did it, how should it be considered a criminal offense? yh if it is a forced marriage which it tends to be then yh that is an offense.

[TAK]

Originally Posted by nabeel_1990 ‘Urwah said: "Khadeejah died three years before the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) migrated to Madeenah. He stayed alone for two years or thereabouts, then he married ‘Aa’ishah when she was six years old, and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 3607)

speechless

[TAK]

Originally Posted by nabeel_1990 but if the prophet did it, how should it be considered a criminal offense? yh if it is a forced marriage which it tends to be then yh that is an offense.

so an adult man, lets say in his late 40's early 50's consumating a marraige with a 9 year old girl is ok by you then...?

i think the modern word for that type of behaviour is paedophilia and certainly in this country a somewhat pleasant sujourn at her majesty's pleasure awaits

[hasanb]

After reading what nabeel has dug up for us, i know even less what to say now than i did earlier on! I just have no clue what to say I really dont...clearly this is a highly sensitive topic and it is in fact a question that has been on my mind for quite a long time.

[nabeel_1990]

Originally Posted by TAK so an adult man, lets say in his late 40's early 50's consumating a marraige with a 9 year old girl is ok by you then...? i think the modern word for that type of behaviour is paedophilia and certainly in this country a somewhat pleasant sujourn at her majesty's pleasure awaits

are you a muslim? im only asking so then i know how to answer to answer the question properly.

[waqar_ahmad]

I really dont know what to say here. Honestly, my knowledge is very limited. So I will wait for someone more knowledgable, like Momo, to respond to this.

One thing I can think of, and I have heard it somewhere before, is that The Holy Prophet's marriages were also to show the muslims what is permissible is Islam.

Thats why, he married someone 20 or so yrs older than him (Hazrat Khadija RA), married women who had converted to Islam, etc etc.

So may be, this is one such example.

[TAK]

Originally Posted by nabeel_1990 are you a muslim? im only asking so then i know how to answer to answer the question properly.

do you have different answers depending upon the religion of the reciever?

[TAK]

Originally Posted by waqar_ahmad One thing I can think of, and I have heard it somewhere before, is that The Holy Prophet's marriages were also to show the muslims what is permissible is Islam.

well the bukhari hadith quoted describes hazrat aisha playing in a swing aged 6 and having her marraige consumated aged 9

[nabeel_1990]

Originally Posted by TAK do you have different answers depending upon the religion of the reciever?

yh u could say that, a muslim would understand it better than a non-muslim.

[Rana]

Originally Posted by TAK do you have different answers depending upon the religion of the reciever?

i agree, facts have to be faced according to life and religion should not change the opinion.

[aashiqmizaaj]

Originally Posted by waqar_ahmad I really dont know what to say here. Honestly, my knowledge is very limited. So I will wait for someone more knowledgable, like Momo, to respond to this. One thing I can think of, and I have heard it somewhere before, is that The Holy Prophet's marriages were also to show the muslims what is permissible is Islam. Thats why, he married someone 20 or so yrs older than him (Hazrat Khadija RA), married women who had converted to Islam, etc etc. So may be, this is one such example.

One thing to keep in mind is that the Hadith that have been quoted here are disputed by many scholars. Just as there are Hadith that seem to imply that Hazrat Aisha was 6 years old at marriage and 9 years old at consumation, there are other Hadith that imply the age was much higher.

[AZ]

you cannot use modern day standards to judge practices that were in place 1400 years ago...society has evolved from those times...there even used to be a time when royalty used to marry their own siblings to keep the bloodline pure...are you vilifying those people as well?

[nabeel_1990]

Originally Posted by aashiqmizaaj One thing to keep in mind is that the Hadith that have been quoted here are disputed by many scholars. Just as there are Hadith that seem to imply that Hazrat Aisha was 6 years old at marriage and 9 years old at consumation, there are other Hadith that imply the age was much higher.

there are scholars who say she was 18 or something like that, the chain of narration of this hadeeth is authentic so the hadeeth is saheeh.

[TAK]

Originally Posted by aashiqmizaaj One thing to keep in mind is that the Hadith that have been quoted here are disputed by many scholars. Just as there are Hadith that seem to imply that Hazrat Aisha was 6 years old at marriage and 9 years old at consumation, there are other Hadith that imply the age was much higher.

fair point, one question i have is what was the relationship between the Prophet and Abu Bakr?

were they of similar age ?

did they grow up together?

were they freinds - if so how close ?

[waqar_ahmad]

I think some say she was 13 or 16.

[hasanb]

Originally Posted by Ahmed Zulfiqar you cannot use modern day standards to judge practices that were in place 1400 years ago...society has evolved from those times...there even used to be a time when royalty used to marry their own siblings to keep the bloodline pure...are you vilifying those people as well?

I dont think anyone is vilifying anyone here, it is just a discussion on a question which has probably been in all of our minds actually! I think there is nothing wrong in discussing things no matter how controversial they might be. It will only improve our understanding.

[nabeel_1990]

Originally Posted by TAK fair point, one question i have is what was the relationship between the Prophet and Abu Bakr? were they of similar age ? did they grow up together? were they freinds - if so how close ?

best friends, i think abu bakr was 2 years younger, the prophet said that if there was another prophet after him it would have been abu bakr.

[TAK]

Originally Posted by Ahmed Zulfiqar you cannot use modern day standards to judge practices that were in place 1400 years ago...society has evolved from those times...there even used to be a time when royalty used to marry their own siblings to keep the bloodline pure...are you vilifying those people as well?

i've never heard that one before

[nabeel_1990]

Originally Posted by hasanb I dont think anyone is vilifying anyone here, it is just a discussion on a question which has probably been in all of our minds actually! I think there is nothing wrong in discussing things no matter how controversial they might be. It will only improve our understanding.

yh i agree, this question was in my head for a long time but when i understood from an islamic perspective then i was okay with it.

[AZ]

its true mate, Egyptian pharaohs used to do that

[TAK]

Originally Posted by nabeel_1990 best friends, i think abu bakr was 2 years younger, the prophet said that if there was another prophet after him it would have been abu bakr.

personally i find that even more disturbing...

i have freinds, best freinds with daughters, i look upon them like my own daughters

they were born during the period of our freindship, just like Aisha would have been born during the period of the Prophet's freindship with Abu Bakr

if they were as close as you say, no doubt the Prophertt would have held Aisha as a baby

BUT using your argument it would be pewrmissable for me to ask for their hands in marriage, the mere thought is ABHORENT

[nabeel_1990]

Originally Posted by TAK personally i find that even more disturbing... i have freinds, best freinds with daughters, i look upon them like my own daughters BUT using your argument it would be pewrmissable for me to ask for their hands in marriage, the mere thought is ABHORENT

but are you muslim? because of you were then what you would be saying is very dangerous.

[TAK]

Originally Posted by nabeel_1990 but are you muslim? because of you were then what you would be saying is very dangerous.

what business is it of yours what my religion is?

how can what i be say be dangerous only if i am a muslim?

[hasanb]

TAK has a point about Abu Bakr being the prophets (s.a.w) best friend...it adds another twist to this question. I am looking forward to momo's answer on this because i think out of all of us he's probably the one with the most knowledge on this area.

[nabeel_1990]

Originally Posted by TAK what business is it of yours what my religion is? how can what i be say be dangerous only if i am a muslim?

i don't care if you are muslim or not, all i am saying is that those statements can take a person out of islam.

[Rana]

The royalty thing is out of question, it doesnt have a prophet involved.

People only bring the marriage of Hazrat Aisha to try and degrade the Holy Prophet, however there is no proof of the Holy prophet having a sexual relationship with hazrat Aisha when she was married to him. So i think that this shouldnt be disguessed in a way that you do not understand the story from both sides. Hazrat Aisha never ever complained about the Holy Prophet s.a.w and if she hadnt a query then who are these western clowns to lay a hand on this matter? She wasnt forced to marry and hadrat abu bakr was in favour of the marriage.

[hasanb]

Originally Posted by TAK what business is it of yours what my religion is? how can what i be say be dangerous only if i am a muslim?

That would be offending the prophet intentionally if you are a muslim...is obviously not a very wise thing to do in terms of gunnah etc. Thats why even though I have the same questions...I am refraining from making any outright statements so that I dont say anything I may regret later on. Since I simply dont have anywhere near enough knowledge to be making outright statements.

[nabeel_1990]

Originally Posted by hasanb That would be offending the prophet intentionally if you are a muslim...is obviously not a very wise thing to do in terms of gunnah etc. Thats why even though I have the same questions...I am refraining from making any outright statements so that I dont say anything I may regret later on. Since I simply dont have anywhere near enough knowledge to be making outright statements.

thankyou, at least someone understands.

[TAK]

Originally Posted by nabeel_1990 i don't care if you are muslim or not, all i am saying is that those statements can take a person out of islam.

i prefer to leave the taking in and taking out in the hands of the Creator

last i heard a muslim beleives in one god and that mohammad is his prophet

not sure then how raisinng legitimate question can take one outside islam

no direspect intended but i don't think you are qualified to make those judgements

[nabeel_1990]

Originally Posted by TAK i prefer to leave the taking in and taking out in the hands of the Creator last i heard a muslim beleives in one god and that mohammad is his prophet not sure then how raisinng legitimate question can take one outside islam no direspect intended but i don't think you are qualified to make those judgements

well then you should do some studying, if someone was to mock the prophet, even a sunnah of the prophet like a beard, they would be out of islam, this is why i am saying choose your words wisely, this has been AGREED by scholars, you will not see scholars arguing about this.

[Rana]

Originally Posted by nabeel_1990 well then you should do some studying, if someone was to mock the prophet, even a sunnah of the prophet like a beard, they would be out of islam, this is why i am saying choose your words wisely, this has been AGREED by scholars, you will not see scholars arguing about this.

What??

[hasanb]

Originally Posted by Rana then who are these western clowns to lay a hand on this matter?

Mate that was a bit uncalled for i think. The above article from the daily mail only talks about a yemeni girl, and also that yemeni legislators are actively trying to curb this practice! The did not mention the prophet (s.a.w) at all. It was only us that raised this question...and that too only for discussion purposes and to enhance our knowledge.

[nabeel_1990]

Originally Posted by Rana What??

??

[nabeel_1990]

“If you ask them (about this), they declare: ‘We were only talking idly and joking.’ Say: ‘Was it at Allaah, and His Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and His Messenger that you were mocking?’

Make no excuse; you disbelieved after you had believed…”

[al-Tawbah 95-66]

This aayah clearly states that those who mock Allaah, His Signs or His Messenger are kaafirs, regardless of whether they regard that as being permissible or not. Simply making fun of them is apostasy from Islam (riddah), according to the consensus of the Muslims, even if the person did not really intend to mock them but was “only” joking or trying to be funny.

[Gujar]

This website should help to shed light on the matter for those searching for answers -

http://www.ilovezakirnaik.com/madamayeshah/index.htm

[Gujar]

Historical Fact 1. The age of Aishah in relationship to the age of her sister Asma: One theory involves the relationship of her age to that of her half-sister Asma. There are two fats which, if established, make it impossible for Aishah to have been only six at her nikah. Firstly it is stated that Asma was ten years older than Aishah, and secondly that she died in 73 AH at the very advanced age of 100 years. Abdur Rahman ibn Arabi al-Zinad (753 AH), for example, was an early historian noted for his knowledge of Arab lineage. He stated that Asma was older than her sister by ten years. Ibn Kathir Dimashqui (1373 CE) stated that Asma breathed her last in 73 AH when she was 100 years old, and was older than her sister Aishah by ten years. The date was easily fixed in the mind as she died just a few days after her son Abdullah ibn Zubayr was killed in battle. Ibn Abd al-Barr (1071 CE) gives the same facts, though he dates her death a few months (not days) after the death of Abdullah. If Asma truly was 10 years older than Aishah, and truly was 100 years old in 73 AH, then Aishah would have been 90 had she lived to that year, and by simple subtraction of dates, since 73 AH is the equivalent of 695 CE (622, the year of Hijrah plus 73), she must have been born in 605 CE. Furthermore, if – as is claimed – Asma was born 27 years prior to the Hijrah, then Aishah must have been born 17 years prior to it. So, if the generally accepted tradition that Aishah entered the Prophet’s home as his fully married wife in 2 AH/624 CE, she must have been 19 and not 9.

And

Historical Fact 2. Abu Bakr’s children were born before the advent of Islam: Ibn Jarir at-Tabari, an eminent historian of the early era, stated: ‘Abu Bakr married two women in the pre-Islamic era, who gave birth to four children. Abdullah and Asma were by Qatilah, while Abdur Rahman and Aishah were by Umm Ruman bint Amir. All these children were born before the advent of Islam’. The advent of Islam was 610 CE; so, if Aishah was born before that, then she must have been at the very least 12 years of age in the year of Hijrah, and at least 14 at the time of her marriage in 2 AH (624 CE). Moreover, it is not stated that Aishah was born just immediately before the advent of Islam. Tabari talks of her birth as being ‘during the days of ignorance (jahiliyah)’, which seems to suggest that it was not right at the end of that period in history. So, if Aishah was born as much as a year before the end of Ignorance, then it is more likely that she was 15 at the time of her marriage.

Just two pieces of evidence to suggest that Aisha (RA) was older than 9 when she got married/the marriage was consummated.

[Solid Snake]

I don't pretend to be an expert, but after doing a bit more reading and from previous knowledge IMO...

It is important to consider the time frame that our wonderful Prophet (saw) lived in. What were the customs at the time, what were the consequences and results of a marriage (for both bride and groom)? What was the average life span? Remember, people those days lived in the desert in extreme conditions. Having ties with tribes and other families was very important so that resources could be pooled together etc... At the time it was the norm for people to marry very young women, do not forget that our Prophet (saw) also married many widows (who were considerably older) so that he could support them. Its very easy to view history with our 'perception' (which is all that it is, nothing more!) of what is acceptable and what is not. Try and put yourself in that situation for a moment, say you are growing up in that environment. After you have gone through puberty, and are eligible to be married, what would stop you? Would you prefer to live a solo bachelor lifestyle for another 10-15 years? After all in one and a half thousand years, that would be considered the correct thing to do right?

All I am trying to say is it is more than unfair to judge the actions of any person living hundreds (or thousands) of years ago by what we perceive to be correct at the time. These days marriage is considered something more love related, but the fact of the matter is at the time (and I am referring to many countries/civilizations before and after that time) marriage was considered an act of survival. Having said this, I think these days, as society has advanced and given more opportunities available to young women and men, pursuing a solid education (if they have the opportunity) should be fully advocated.

That is just my 2 cents, and how I have interpreted it. May Allah forgive me if I have not misunderstood the issue as it is not my intention to distort and provide misinformation.

[adarsh_bang]

Originally Posted by Solid Snake I don't pretend to be an expert, but after doing a bit more reading and from previous knowledge IMO... It is important to consider the time frame that our wonderful Prophet (saw) lived in. What were the customs at the time, what were the consequences and results of a marriage (for both bride and groom)? What was the average life span? Remember, people those days lived in the desert in extreme conditions. Having ties with tribes and other families was very important so that resources could be pooled together etc... At the time it was the norm for people to marry very young women, do not forget that our Prophet (saw) also married many widows (who were considerably older) so that he could support them. Its very easy to view history with our 'perception' (which is all that it is, nothing more!) of what is acceptable and what is not. Try and put yourself in that situation for a moment, say you are growing up in that environment. After you have gone through puberty, and are eligible to be married, what would stop you? Would you prefer to live a solo bachelor lifestyle for another 10-15 years? After all in one and a half thousand years, that would be considered the correct thing to do right? All I am trying to say is it is more than unfair to judge the actions of any person living hundreds (or thousands) of years ago by what we perceive to be correct at the time. These days marriage is considered something more love related, but the fact of the matter is at the time (and I am referring to many countries/civilizations before and after that time) marriage was considered an act of survival. Having said this, I think these days, as society has advanced and given more opportunities available to young women and men, pursuing a solid education (if they have the opportunity) should be fully advocated. That is just my 2 cents, and how I have interpreted it. May Allah forgive me if I have not misunderstood the issue as it is not my intention to distort and provide misinformation.

brilliant analysis solid snake too good

[adarsh_bang]

here's something i found for our friend tak... read it carefully bro...

I have a question regarding marriage and the wives of Muhammad. Why is it that, if Islam only permits up to four wives, and even then does not encourage it, Muhammad took nine wives?

Also, one of his wives was only seven years old when he married her, and nine when he consummated the marriage, according to your Web site. This seems to me akin to child molestation!

Also, one of his children was not from one of his wives, but from one of his "right-hand possessions" to quote your own Web site. Why is a woman called a possession? Is this a concubine? Why did he have intercourse outside of wedlock? Weren't nine women enough for him? Muhammad's own lifestyle seems to contradict the very teachings Islam claims regarding marriage and women.

Answer:

Salam Amy,

Thank you for the ongoing dialogue with our page. We enjoy bouncing ideas back and forth with you, as it seems you're researching Islam diligently.

Women are often brought into the picture when discussing Islam because their status — if not studied thoroughly and objectively — is severely misunderstood. Under those inaccurate assumptions, Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) is often accused of practicing and encouraging unjust treatment of women, while the truth is actually the opposite — as I hope you will see after reading this answer.

I'm encouraged by your thoughtful, questioning nature to attempt to crystallize the true picture of this great man. Let's take an objective peek into his life, to examine whether or not Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) is that repelling womanizer. But first let's go a little further back in history to look at the domestic lives of other prophets preceding Muhammad and what their Scriptures tell us about their stance towards the polygamy issue:

Other Prophets Practiced Polygamy

The fact that only Muhammad is accused of polygamy is rather surprising, since this is a privilege enjoyed by prophets before him. Their wives and concubines came in great numbers, too! The Torah, the Bible, and the Qur'an tell of some of them; the rest are not mentioned so we don't know, but among the ones who were polygamous we can count Prophets Ibrahim (Abraham), Ya`qub (Jacob), Dawud (David), and Sulayman (Solomon). The Scriptures talk of polygamy as a "favor" bestowed upon them from the Lord.
First Kings 11:1-3 indicates that King Solomon had 700 hundred wives and 300 hundred concubines! In sealing treaties in ancient days, it was customary for a lesser king to give his daughter in marriage to the greater king. Every time a new treaty was sealed, Solomon ended up with yet another wife. These wives were considered "tokens of friendship" and "sealed" the relationship between the two kings. (Reasoning from the Scriptures on 1 Kings)

Scripture indicates that David also acquired wives and concubines, David's blessings, including his wives, were given to him as a result of God's favor (2 Sam. 5:12-13; 12:8; D & C 132:39). Scriptural records say that the Lord did command some of his ancient saints to practice plural marriage. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob—among others (D & C 132)—conformed to this ennobling and exalting principle; the whole history of ancient Israel was one in which plurality of wives was a divinely accepted and approved order of matrimony. Those who entered this order at the Lord's command, and who kept the laws and conditions appertaining to it, have gained for themselves eternal exaltation in the highest heaven of the celestial world. (Mormon Doctrine of Plural Marriage p. 578)
Islam Didn't Invent Polygamy but Only Regulated It—in Favor of Women!

From the above accounts, we can clearly see that Prophets—including Muhammad—were allowed to be more polygamous than their followers, not just for carnal reasons, but for political and religious reasons pertaining to their call. Consequently, it is groundless to wonder why Muslims can't marry 12 wives like their prophet, just as it is groundless to wonder why Jews and Christians can't marry 700 like theirs! Islam didn't invent polygamy; Islam only made polygamy more humane, instituting equal rights for all wives. And even so, Muslim women are not forced to accept this and may put a condition against it in their marriage contract.

The Qur'an Is the Only Holy Book That Actually Says "Marry Only One"

Images of "sheikhs with harems" are not consistent with Islam, as, in fact, the general rule in Islam is monogamy not polygamy. the Qur'an says what means:
*{Marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one.*** (An-Nisaa' 3:3)
Polygamy in Islam is not recommended; it is only permitted under certain guidelines. Permission to practice polygamy is not associated with mere satisfaction of passion. It is, rather, associated with compassion toward widows and orphans.

Before the Qur'an was revealed, there was no upper limit for polygamy, and many men had more than four wives. Islam put an upper limit of four wives, permitting a man to marry more than once, only on the condition that he deal justly with all of them. Yet the same verse points out:
*{Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women*** (Al-Nisaa' 3:129)
Therefore polygamy is not a rule but an exception.

Why Is the Exception of Polygamy Allowed in Islam?

The exception is made for many reasons, but let's note only one here, addressing your concern that Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) "had intercourse outside of wedlock."

In Western society, it is common for a man to have mistresses or multiple extra-marital affairs. Women in this case are degraded to mere sex objects with absolutely no rights; they're usually on the losing end of such liaisons. The same society, however, cannot accept a man having more than one wife so that women can retain their lawful rights and lead an honorable, dignified, and respectable life.

If every adult American man married only one woman, there would still be more than 25 million women in the United States who would not be able to get husbands, at least considering that—according to latest statistics—10 percent of the American population is gay! That's close to 30 million people!

Thus the only option for a woman who cannot find a husband is either to marry a married man or to become "public property." Islam gives women the honorable position by permitting the first option and disallowing the second. At least one of the reasons Islam has permitted limited polygamy is to protect the modesty of women!

Islam's Straightforward Approach in Problem Solving

In Islam, problems are supposed to be faced and solved—not ignored! So, rather than requiring hypocritical compliance, Islam provides legitimate and clean solutions to the problems of individuals and societies. There is no doubt that the second wife legally married and treated kindly is better off than a mistress without any legal rights. Through practical example, Prophet Muhammad as the guide of Muslims has set the applicable rules for this aspect of human relations in order not to leave anything for speculation.

Stages of the Prophet's Married Life

First, let's remember that Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) led a life supported only by the bare minimum of necessities. His wives were not idly wasting away the hours in a luxurious harem but led a life of labor and sacrifice, while he was mostly busy away from home overseeing his numerous duties as a Prophet. So, obviously, lust was not a factor, as he wasn't even at home most of the time. Further, most of his marriages occurred at an age when lust is not a major factor in any man's life:

1. He remained single until age 25.

2. From age 25 to 50 he was faithful to only one wife, Khadijah, who bore all his children except one. She was 15 years older than him, with children from two previous marriages. She was his greatest ally when he received the Call at age 40 until she died when he was 50 years old. He remained in love with her until he died and often talked of his life with her with great nostalgia.

3. Between ages 50 and 52 he remained unmarried and mourning his late beloved wife. He lived alone with his daughters.

4. Between ages 53 and 60 he married all his other wives for many noble reasons detailed below. It's unimaginable for a man to suddenly turn lustful at this age, especially as he was constantly traveling, with bloodthirsty enemies on his heels.

5. At age 60, Allah revealed to him verse preventing him from marrying any more until he died, which was at age 63. The Qur'an says what means:
*{It is not lawful for you (to marry other) women after this, nor to change them for other wives.*** (Al-Ahzab 33:52)
Reasons for the Prophet's Marriages

We can categorize all his marriages under two aspects of his personality:
- Muhammad the man who needed a loving wife, children, and a stable home, so he married Khadijah and remained with only her for 20 years until she died.

- Muhammad the Prophet who married the other wives for reasons pertaining to his duty to deliver the Message to the world. Those particular women were carefully selected, not just haphazardly "acquired" for carnal reasons, as suggested. Here are some of the reasons for which Muhammad married:

1. To pass on Islam to the next generations as a practical legacy
Prophet Muhammad is the only prophet without any privacy, and with a meticulously preserved tradition in speech and actions in all minute details of his public and private life. Preserved in the sharp minds of his wives and his Companions, those narrations comprise the "daily life manual" for Muslims to follow until the end of time. The fact that Islam was spread on the shoulders of women and preserved in their hearts is a great honor to the females of this Ummah. The books of authentic Hadith attribute more than 3,000 narrations and Prophetic traditions to his wives alone.

2. To cement the relations of the budding nation
In a tribal society, it was customary to seal treaties through marrying into tribes. Muhammad's closest Companions later became the four caliphs who led Islam at the critical stage after his death. Two of them were the fathers of his wives `A'ishah (daughter of Abu Bakr) and Hafsa (daughter of `Umar); the other two married his daughters (`Uthman married Ruqayyah and Zainab in succession, and `Ali married Fatimah).

3. To teach Muslims compassion with women
He taught them to be compassionate not just to the young and beautiful maidens, but more so to the weak and destitute widows, divorcees, orphans, and elderly women. Islam teaches that women are to be respected, protected, and cared for by their men folk. They're not to be cast out to face a harsh life alone while able men around them just pity them and do nothing to help, or worse, use their weakness to take them as mistresses!

4. To offer a practical role model to Muslims until the end of time
Although many believing women often approached Muhammad offering him themselves in marriage, he politely turned down their offers. Most of his wives after the death of Khadijah were old, devoid of beauty, and previously married, except `A'ishah, who was the only young virgin. He married from other nations and religions; some were the daughters of his worst enemies, and his marriage to one woman won all her people into Islam. Regardless of his neutral feelings towards many of them, he was a model example of equal justice and kindness to them all, and he would never discriminate among them.

Who Were the Prophet's Wives?

Prophet Muhammad married 12 wives in his life. When he died he had 9 wives. They have a very special status in the hearts of Muslims as the "Mothers of the Believers," as the Qur'an instructs, and they are the source of a great amount of wisdom which they learned while living close to such a great man. Perhaps you'd like to research a bit to find their beautiful stories, so here are their names: Khadijah bint Khuwaylid, Sawdah bint Zam'ah, `A'ishah bint Abi Bakr, Hafsah bint `Umar ibn Al-Khattab, Zaynab bint Khuzaymah, Umm Salama, Zaynab bint Jahsh, Juwayriah bint Al-Harith, Umm Habibah, Safiyah bint Huyay ibn Akhtab, Maymunah bint Al-Harith, Maria the Copt.

Can We Consider His Marriage to `A'ishah a Case of Child Molestation?

To answer your speculation, let's continue our objective trip into the past. Obviously, when traveling back in time 1400 years to examine a lifestyle we never witnessed, it is unfair to apply our present day standards, so let's listen to the experts. Authentic historical records prove that the social traditions of the time and place—regardless of religion—considered Arab females as women as soon as their menstrual cycles began. The custom was to give daughters in marriage at that age. This was practiced by all dwellers in Arabia before Islam: pagans, disbelievers, Jews, and others. It's a fact that female menstruation in hot climates starts much earlier than in cold climates, so females in Arabia matured as early as 8 or 9; they also aged earlier than other women.

It's a neglected fact that before she was married to Muhammad, `A'ishah had been engaged to an infidel, Jubair ibn Mus'ab ibn Ady. Her fiancé broke the engagement on the basis of religious difference. So her father, Abu Bakr, agreed to give her hand in marriage to the Prophet.

The Great Wisdom in Selecting `A'ishah in Particular as a Young Wife

`A'ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) came from a house famous for learning and memorizing great quantities of knowledge; her father was a live encyclopedia of Arab tribal pedigrees and poetry. She inherited his ability, and in her young, intelligent, receptive mind, she preserved a precious portion of Islam she learned during seven years of marriage, for 47 years after the death of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and she taught thousands of men worldwide their religion as she had learned it firsthand from the Prophet. To our present day, she is considered among the most prominent Islamic scholars, and she holds extremely high esteem in the hearts of all Muslims as such and as "the beloved of the Prophet," who often mentioned her as the human he loved the most on the face of this earth. With her, he built a model Muslim home for Muslims to strive to imitate forever.

Was Maria the Copt a Slave, a Concubine, or a Wife of the Prophet?

Slavery already existed long before Islam. It was a system whereby a human captured in wars or kidnapped could be sold as a "possession." That term applied to both sexes, not to women only. In some cultures slaves were considered subhuman and treated brutally. In Europe, for example, Romans threw Christian slaves to the lions while the public cheered; female slaves were thought to have no souls and were tortured mercilessly; slaves lived in degrading conditions; both sexes were forced to offer sexual favors to their masters; and as "possessions" they had no choice, no will, and no rights.

Islam recognized the human rights of slaves and encouraged Muslims to set slaves free. Islam prohibited adultery and homosexuality, and prevented forcing female slaves into sexual acts against their will. Islam encouraged educating them, setting them free, then legally marrying them and giving them their moral and financial rights. The reward for this—as mentioned in Prophetic Hadith—is eternal residence in Paradise.

Maria was not a concubine; she was a slave owned by Egypt's Christian governor, who offered her and her sister Serine—among other presents—as a "gift of good will" to the Prophet in reply to his envoys inviting him to Islam. On her way from Egypt to Madinah, she was curious to learn about "her new master" and listened to his Companions talk about him. As a result, she became Muslim before meeting Muhammad. Scholars' opinions vary of her status afterwards; here is the opinion I support:

One of the prominent Al-Azhar scholars, Sheikh Abdul Majid Subh, states:
"Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), instead of taking concubines, entered into lawful marriages based on reason and wisdom. Maria the Copt was given to him as a present, but rather than taking her as a concubine, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) married her, thus elevating her status by marriage."

Women's Rights in Islam Surpass Modern Systems

If women in the Muslim World today don't have their rights, it is not because Islam didn't give them rights. Alien traditions have overshadowed the teachings of Islam, either through ignorance or the impact of colonialism. Most of the so-called modern reforms in the status of women appeared after the West abandoned religion for secularism. Those in the West who claim to follow the Judeo-Christian tradition really follow the values of Western liberalism.

In England and America less than fifty years ago, a woman could not buy a house or car without the co-signature of a male "guardian"! In Contrast, Islamic Law guaranteed rights to women over 1400 years ago that were unheard of in the West until the 1900s.

Numerous verses of the Qur'an state that men and women are equal in the site of Allah; the only thing that distinguishes people in His site is their level of God-consciousness.

Islam teaches that a woman is a full person under the law, and is the spiritual equal of a male. Women have the right to own property, to operate a business, and to receive equal pay for equal work. Women are allowed total control of their wealth. They cannot be married against their will, and they are allowed to keep their own name when married. They have the right to inherit property and to have their marriage dissolved in the case of neglect or mistreatment. Islam does not consider woman an "evil temptress," and thus does not blame woman for Original Sin (a doctrine that Islam rejects). Women in Islam participate in all forms of worship that men participate in.

Prophet Muhammad's mission stopped many of the horrible practices against women that were present in the society of his time. He actually harnessed the unrestricted polygamy of the Arabs of the time, and put many laws in place to protect the well-being of women. In his Farewell Sermon just weeks before his death, he summarized the teachings of Islam to the believers in a final farewell. His last words were "Be kind to women!"

Thank you and please keep in touch.

[coca-cola]

hmmm

[Momo]

Out of the ordinary?
It will be an educative exercise if one was to find out when was the first time somebody pointed a finger at the Messenger of Allah for marrying an ‘underage’ woman. It was only after the Messenger’s death, and that too by the Orientalists, that these things reared their head.

Nobody during the Messenger’s lifetime had any objection. The woman’s father, who was a very decent and upright man, had none. The public (which included the Messenger’s open as well as hidden enemies), and who didn’t let any opportunity of creating a scandal go by, had none.

And above all, the Messenger himself, who was by definition an upright and careful man, had no problems. Contrast this with the episode of his contemplating marriage with Zaynab bint Jahsh, where he remained in two minds fearing scandal.

It should be clear thus that, for the moment not going into the rights and wrongs of the issue, this was not something that caused anybody (friend or foe) in the Messenger’s surroundings discomfort or cause for complain.

Against Allah’s Law?
The fact that it wasn’t something objectionable as far as the prevailing custom of that part of the world was concerned being clearly established, let’s proceed to the next logical step.

Was it reprehensible?

What is prevalent or customary in a given society is of course by no means necessarily correct. Liquor and games of chance were also customary in that society but Allah, through His Book and His Messenger, prohibited them. The same goes for the prohibition of idol worship and combining two sisters as wives.

Another very relevant example is allowing, against the tide of the society, a man to wed his adopted son’s widow or former wife (after making it clear that there is no such thing in Allah’s Law as an adopted son). Here even the concerns of the Messenger were overruled:

33.37
And thou didst hide in thy mind that which Allah was to bring to light, and thou didst fear mankind whereas Allah had a better right that thou shouldst fear Him.

Thus Allah was always there to guide the Messenger on which societal traditions were to be broken and which were okay as far as the Law of Allah was concerned. That Allah let the Messenger go ahead with his marriage with Ayesha is proof that there was absolutely nothing wrong in that.

The rationale
That Allah allowed the Messenger to marry Ayeshah seals the deal as far as the rights and wrongs of this issue are concerned. Now let’s take a look at the rationale. That Ayeshah was still a very young woman when the Messenger passed away resulted in her teaching religion and wisdom to Muslims for decades before her own death. That was very meaningful because she knew the Messenger better than most and in addition she was extraordinarily intelligent and possessed a photographic memory. Many scholars consider her to be the greatest scholar of Islam ever.

What does it mean in our lives?
So what does this conclusion (that in principle there is nothing wrong as far as Allah’s Law is concerned in a mature man marrying a very young woman) mean in our lives?

Well, exactly what the permission for marrying more than one woman means in our lives. Do we all go ahead and lead polygamous lives? No. So if you feel uncomfortable with this idea, you are absolutely free to avoid participating in it in any way. In today’s day and age and for most people it is probably not practical either. But permission is one thing and an order or even a recommendation something completely different.

And I realize that the best of laws can be misused, and this is no exception either. There will be cases where men will ‘sell’ their daughters to wealthy old men, but that will be the faulty application of the law and not the law itself that will be to blame for it. And of course measures can be taken to stop these practices.

In conclusion
I am also aware of the sad fact that most of us living in this 21st century enlightened age will be more sympathetic to gay rights and very young men and women having illicit albeit consensual sex much more than this idea of marriage with a very young woman.

Finally, I regret some very unfortunate words that were used in this thread, such as pedophilia. We must not forget that we are talking about a marriage here, and we are talking about the greatest man that ever lived. Let me quote a couple of excerpts about that man’s marital life, and I pray to Allah that everybody can see the beauty and wisdom in that aspect of his life as well, in addition to everything else he did in his 63 years.

First from Hussain Haykal’s ‘The life of Muhammad’:

…Muhammad married Khadijah when he was twenty-three years old, i.e. at the height of his youth, the fullness of manhood, and the apex of power and handsomeness. He remained true and loyal to Khadijah for twenty-eight years until he was over fifty years old. This had been the case at a time when polygamy was normal among the Arabs. Moreover, since no male offspring of Khadijah survived, Muhammad had all necessary justification to marry another woman considering that newborn daughters were customarily buried alive and male offspring alone were regarded as rightful heirs. Before Muhammad became a prophet he had lived seventeen years of married life, and thereafter eleven more years without ever thinking of marriage with any other woman. Throughout his married life with Khadijah as well as during his celibate years, Muhammad was never known to be one susceptible to womanly attractions at a time when women wore no veils and showed their beauty and ornaments publicly – the evidence of which is implicit in Islam’s prohibition of the same later on…

And now from Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall’s ‘The Glorious Qur’an’:

…With the exception of Ayeshah, the daughter of his closest friend Abu Bakr whom he married at her father’s request when she was still a child, all his later marriages were with widows whose state was pitiable for one reason or another. Some of them were widows of men killed in war. One was a captive, when he made the marriage the excuse for emancipating all the conquered tribe and restoring their property. Two were the daughters of his enemies, and his alliance with them was a cause of peace. It is noteworthy that the period of these marriages was also the period of his greatest activity, when he had little rest from campaigning, and was always busy with the problems of a growing empire…

[AZ]

Originally Posted by coca-cola hmmm

yes, great observation, totally agree


great find adarsh, thanks for posting, I am sure that will help clarify the issue

[Zechariah]

Those of you on this forum, who said Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) married a 9 year old girl, should fear Allah much as you are committing a very gross deed blindly!

Many intelligent scholars have contiuniyed to prove that Hazrat Aisha was around 18-20 years old when she married Prophet Muhammad(PBUH). There have been huge analysis by varius scholars and they have agreed upon the right age.

The misguided and blind ones of our time continue to promote the 9 year old story, which has been proven wrong by many!

Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) was the best example sent to this world and he guided the arabs to the straight path in every walk of life! Do a logical question to your soul and see what answer you get? Your answer will be clear.

For God's sake, wake up and realize the great mistake you are committing by saying that the best example, the best person, the genious in life, the best natured one married a 9 year old girl on the basis of a forged hadith.

Ya Allah guide these people who disgrace you and your prophets name out of igonorance.

[coca-cola]

I think Shi'ites believe aisha was 19. or 18.

[coca-cola]

Originally Posted by Ahmed Zulfiqar yes, great observation, totally agree great find adarsh, thanks for posting, I am sure that will help clarify the issue

thanks.

[nabeel_1990]

Originally Posted by Zechariah Those of you on this forum, who said Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) married a 9 year old girl, should fear Allah much as you are committing a very gross deed blindly! Many intelligent scholars have contiuniyed to prove that Hazrat Aisha was around 18-20 years old when she married Prophet Muhammad(PBUH). There have been huge analysis by varius scholars and they have agreed upon the right age. The misguided and blind ones of our time continue to promote the 9 year old story, which has been proven wrong by many! Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) was the best example sent to this world and he guided the arabs to the straight path in every walk of life! Do a logical question to your soul and see what answer you get? Your answer will be clear. For God's sake, wake up and realize the great mistake you are committing by saying that the best example, the best person, the genious in life, the best natured one married a 9 year old girl on the basis of a forged hadith. Ya Allah guide these people who disgrace you and your prophets name out of igonorance.

what are you on about???? remember it is a saheeh hadith, remember most of the scholars have said she was 6, it was a custom at that time.

[hasanb]

Originally Posted by coca-cola hmmm

that is my sentiments exactly....

[Zechariah]

Originally Posted by nabeel_1990 what are you on about???? remember it is a saheeh hadith, remember most of the scholars have said she was 6, it was a custom at that time.

Customs that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) eradicated, not followed.

The life and character of the Prophet represents the pinnacle of human dignity, decency, and greatness. His exemplary life is the best role model for humanity.

However, in regard to the part which is outside the Quran, if there are historical narrations which contradict the Quran, or if they go against the high moral character of the Prophet, then these narrations are to be questioned and should not be attributed to the Prophet. The same applies to the lives of his companions.

[nabeel_1990]

Originally Posted by Zechariah Customs that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) eradicated, not followed. The life and character of the Prophet represents the pinnacle of human dignity, decency, and greatness. His exemplary life is the best role model for humanity. However, in regard to the part which is outside the Quran, if there are historical narrations which contradict the Quran, or if they go against the high moral character of the Prophet, then these narrations are to be questioned and should not be attributed to the Prophet. The same applies to the lives of his companions.

lool im not going to bother, the hadeeth is saheeh, most scholars agree with this age, its not really much to debate about.

[Zechariah]

loooooooool

Its all done out of ignorance Bhai.

Unfortunately, these traditionists and biographers hold their views by choosing to ignore several important pieces of evidence which contradict this opinion, which indicate that at the time of her marriage to the Prophet, Aishah was much older, indeed as much as ten years older than generally claimed.

People attribute something to the Prophet that they would never do themsevles, its really sad.

Khair,

The proofs are there, Gujar also showed some material about it.

The basic problem is that our historians and traditionists seem to have chosen not to do a little elementary mathematics. Many have reported statements that are supposed to be factual which are in blatant contradiction to the notion that Aishah was only six in 620 CE.

Read it if you seek the truth: http://www.ilovezakirnaik.com/madama..._exact_age.htm

Surely people who work with Zakir Naik are not ignorant.

[nabeel_1990]

Originally Posted by Zechariah loooooooool Its all done out of ignorance Bhai. People attribute something to the Prophet that they would never do themsevles, its really sad. Khair, The proofs are there, Gujar also showed some material about it.

just because someone said she was older, it doesn't mean she is older. The hadeeth is saheeh and the majority agree to it, i don't really see how hard it is to understand, these scholars are not on the level on imam bukhari.

[hasanb]

A lot of times when I have a question about religion which is not a straightforward one, I get the answer that well things were different in that time. Whilst this is true that customs and way of life was at complete odds with us now...I feel this is a bit of a shortcut answer and doesnt contain any true depth to it.

I say this because it is said the Quran shall last unchanged throughout time. Thereby implying that no matter what time you live in...the Quran will always be relevant without changes being made to make up for which time period we live in. So I would imagine the same applies to the Prophet (p.b.u.h), as he was the role model for all muslims...therefore surely we should not have to put in a time filter in order to understand a few things.

[AZ]

does the Qur'an explicitly state the legal age that a female is eligible for marriage?

[nabeel_1990]

Originally Posted by Ahmed Zulfiqar does the Qur'an explicitly state the legal age that a female is eligible for marriage?

nope

[Momo]

As expected, two unfortunate things are happening:

1. Some pretty undeniable facts are being denied (the age issue).
2. The Messenger of Allah's actions are being judged (and denied) according to our norms (we wouldn't even think of doing it, how could the Prophet do it!).

Answers:
1. There's absolutely no need to be apologetic at all on this issue! And let's not try to change facts.
2. It is possible that our norms are not exactly reference material, surely?

[nabeel_1990]

Originally Posted by Momo As expected, two unfortunate things are happening: 1. Some pretty undeniable facts are being denied (the age issue). 2. The Messenger of Allah's actions are being judged (and denied) according to our norms (we wouldn't even think of doing it, how could the Prophet do it!). Answers: 1. There's absolutely no need to be apologetic at all on this issue! And let's not try to change facts. 2. It is possible that our norms are not exactly reference material, surely?

exactly

[AZ]

there you go then...the situation and circumstances of the marriage have already been spelled out quite clearly, so I think people should realise that...and I repeat, do not use modern legal/ethical standards as your barometer for judgement

[TAK]

Originally Posted by Momo As expected, two unfortunate things are happening: 1. Some pretty undeniable facts are being denied (the age issue). 2. The Messenger of Allah's actions are being judged (and denied) according to our norms (we wouldn't even think of doing it, how could the Prophet do it!). Answers: 1. There's absolutely no need to be apologetic at all on this issue! And let's not try to change facts. 2. It is possible that our norms are not exactly reference material, surely?

what are the facts as you see them?

[Momo]

Originally Posted by TAK what are the facts as you see them?

I was referring to attempts to raise Hazrat Ayeshah's age by hook or by crook, when there is absolutely no need to be apologetic.

The fact is that she was a child when she got married. No amount of mental and verbal aerobics will change that one.

There's no need for any aerobics, really.

[Gujar]

Originally Posted by Momo I was referring to attempts to raise Hazrat Ayeshah's age by hook or by crook, when there is absolutely no need to be apologetic. The fact is that she was a child when she got married. No amount of mental and verbal aerobics will change that one. There's no need for any aerobics, really.

I agree Momo. To me it makes no difference what age she was, but if there is evidence that suggests her age has been miscalculated then there's no harm in considering it.

[Javelin]

Child marriages are widespread in Yemen, the Arab world's poorest country which has a population of 23million, where tribal customs dominate society.

I, for one, would never condone or accept such a practice.
However, some posters here are defending certain customs and practices of the past on the basis that

Originally Posted by Ahmed Zulfiqar you cannot use modern day standards to judge practices that were in place 1400 years ago...society has evolved from those times...?

Even though Islam is for all times, all societies and all circumstances.
It is also said that The Prophet(pbuh) acted in particular ways so as to set examples for other Muslims to follow, and yet some of those very same practices are frowned upon, even in modern Muslim societies..

Taken as a whole, there are many inconsistencies and contradictions in the various arguments presented.

Since I cannot, and will not, believe that The Prophet(pbuh) ever did anything in his life that could ever be construed as being 'wrong', whether according to the norms of 1400 years ago or what is acceptable now, the only plausible conclusion left is that the so called 'Scholars' have 'cocked things up good and proper' and (wrongly) brought into question the morality and actions of the greatest human being ever to have walked this earth.

[hasanb]

Originally Posted by Javelin Since I cannot, and will not, believe that The Prophet(pbuh) ever did anything in his life that could ever be conceived as being 'wrong', whether according to the norms of 1400 years ago or what is acceptable now, the only plausible conclusion left is that the so called 'Scholars' have 'cocked things up good and proper' and (wrongly) brought into question the morality and actions of the greatest human being ever to have walked this earth.

Perfectly said, I have felt for a while now that scholars have not got things right on many instances and it is in fact because of them that there is so much co nfusion and misunderstanding surrounding our religion. At the end of the day it is only an opinion...yes they have studied religion, but it is only THEIR interpretation...and nothing more than that.

[sticky wicket]

Originally Posted by TAK personally i find that even more disturbing... i have freinds, best freinds with daughters, i look upon them like my own daughters they were born during the period of our freindship, just like Aisha would have been born during the period of the Prophet's freindship with Abu Bakr if they were as close as you say, no doubt the Prophertt would have held Aisha as a baby BUT using your argument it would be pewrmissable for me to ask for their hands in marriage, the mere thought is ABHORENT

to put it simply if you and your friend were born in that environment the thought wouldnt be abhorent for a number of reasons. One reason is that girl babies were buried alive before islam came to the arabs out of fear of bringing dishonour to the family if they were kidnapped. So it was better for a young girl to be married off at a young age to a responsible trustworthy friend than be carried off by raiders because, unlike in a sophisticated first world society, there wasn't any police or security in place to deter them.

[Rana]

We have to stick to the fact that there is no proof of any sexual relationship at a young age with Hazrat Aisha because she didnt get pregnant once in her lifetime, and there was no such thing as contraception at that time. If we can just prove this fact then there is no way that anybody can try degrading the Holy Prophet s.a.w's character. One of the greatest examples we have of the Holy prophets modesty and charming charecter was the incident where one of his brides did not want him to touch her and he left that room straight away. The holy prophet s.a.w had many wives, but all of them loved him dearly and the holy prophet surely fulfilled each ones responsibilities and loved each of them fairly.

[Juggernaut]

Originally Posted by Javelin I, for one, would never condone or accept such a practice. However, some posters here are defending certain customs and practices of the past on the basis that Even though Islam is for all times, all societies and all circumstances. It is also said that The Prophet(pbuh) acted in particular ways so as to set examples for other Muslims to follow, and yet some of those very same practices are frowned upon, even in modern Muslim societies.. Taken as a whole, there are many inconsistencies and contradictions in the various arguments presented. Since I cannot, and will not, believe that The Prophet(pbuh) ever did anything in his life that could ever be construed as being 'wrong', whether according to the norms of 1400 years ago or what is acceptable now, the only plausible conclusion left is that the so called 'Scholars' have 'cocked things up good and proper' and (wrongly) brought into question the morality and actions of the greatest human being ever to have walked this earth.

I agree with you Javelin. Islam is for all people and all times. If you say that the Prophet PBUH married Aisha at such a tender age because it was a custom of the time then a lot of non-believers, agnostics etc. use that same argument to refute all religions. A lot of them already say that you can't follow something that was revealed so many centuries ago.

As a Muslim I believe that Islam is perfection, that Islam and the Quran are here as a complete guide for us till the end of days. It doesn't matter what day and age you're living in. On that basis I just can't accept the fact that some people's answer to the Holy Prophet PBUH marrying Aisha, at supposedly such a young age, was that it was a custom of the time. The Prophet PBUH was perfect in every sense, therefore I am just not willing to accept that he would do anything that would be considered wrong in any time period.

Its not something that will bother me too much because its all about having faith. But my concern is when a non muslim asks me this question. Why did Muhammad marry someone so young? I wouldn't know what to say. Therefore I think i'll read up on the theory that Aisha was older than what is stated or believed by some people.

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by Juggernaut Its not something that will bother me too much because its all about having faith. But my concern is when a non muslim asks me this question. Why did Muhammad marry someone so young? I wouldn't know what to say. Therefore I think i'll read up on the theory that Aisha was older than what is stated or believed by some people.

THis is a very negative statement, coz it goes against man's main strength, that is logic.

IF one follows a religion, one must be sure of what he is following. How else do you think other people would convert to Islam?

I have the problem as you, if a non-muslim asks me about this, I cant answer. And that is why, I am going ot follow this thread, so that may be, someone can post a satisfactory reply.

I know that the Holy Prophet PBUH was corrent in doing everything he did. But, one must understand the logic behind such incidents.

[Juggernaut]

Originally Posted by waqar_ahmad THis is a very negative statement, coz it goes against man's main strength, that is logic. IF one follows a religion, one must be sure of what he is following. How else do you think other people would convert to Islam? I have the problem as you, if a non-muslim asks me about this, I cant answer. And that is why, I am going ot follow this thread, so that may be, someone can post a satisfactory reply. I know that the Holy Prophet PBUH was corrent in doing everything he did. But, one must understand the logic behind such incidents.

Sorry Waqar. Maybe I put it the wrong way. Islam is about faith but its also about logic. I agree. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think their is a satisfactory response out there. We just haven't found it yet and as such I'm not disheartened by that or doubting the truthfulness of Islam or the Holy Prophet PBUH.

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by Juggernaut Sorry Waqar. Maybe I put it the wrong way. Islam is about faith but its also about logic. I agree. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think their is a satisfactory response out there. We just haven't found it yet and as such I'm not disheartened by that or doubting the truthfulness of Islam or the Holy Prophet PBUH.

Ahh...in that case, I completely agree with you.

[Savak]

I couldnt believe it when i found out that my grandmother had recommended a 14 year old girl for becoming my future fiance in the next 4 years even though i am only 24 years old right now.

[nabeel_1990]

Originally Posted by Juggernaut I agree with you Javelin. Islam is for all people and all times. If you say that the Prophet PBUH married Aisha at such a tender age because it was a custom of the time then a lot of non-believers, agnostics etc. use that same argument to refute all religions. A lot of them already say that you can't follow something that was revealed so many centuries ago. As a Muslim I believe that Islam is perfection, that Islam and the Quran are here as a complete guide for us till the end of days. It doesn't matter what day and age you're living in. On that basis I just can't accept the fact that some people's answer to the Holy Prophet PBUH marrying Aisha, at supposedly such a young age, was that it was a custom of the time. The Prophet PBUH was perfect in every sense, therefore I am just not willing to accept that he would do anything that would be considered wrong in any time period. Its not something that will bother me too much because its all about having faith. But my concern is when a non muslim asks me this question. Why did Muhammad marry someone so young? I wouldn't know what to say. Therefore I think i'll read up on the theory that Aisha was older than what is stated or believed by some people.

the theory is weak, it is only for those who think it is wrong to be marry at a young age like 6, the hadith is clear, some people just do not want to believe in the hadeeth because of there own culture.

[nabeel_1990]

Originally Posted by Rana We have to stick to the fact that there is no proof of any sexual relationship at a young age with Hazrat Aisha because she didnt get pregnant once in her lifetime, and there was no such thing as contraception at that time. If we can just prove this fact then there is no way that anybody can try degrading the Holy Prophet s.a.w's character. One of the greatest examples we have of the Holy prophets modesty and charming charecter was the incident where one of his brides did not want him to touch her and he left that room straight away. The holy prophet s.a.w had many wives, but all of them loved him dearly and the holy prophet surely fulfilled each ones responsibilities and loved each of them fairly.

there are hadeeths about they both used to drink from the same cup etc its late that is why i can't be bothered finding some hadeeths, it is in no way degrading the prophet, this is also a test for some who cannot grasp this type of thing can happen.