Should Pakistan drop either Afridi OR Razzaq from Test for Consistency?

[hasanahmad]

Salman Butt
Younis Khan
Hasan raza
Yousaf Youhana
Inzamam ul Haq
AFRIDI OR RAZZAQ
Kamran Akmal
Shoaib Akhtar
Muhammad Sami
Rana Naveed
Danish Kaneria

2 Full time Opening BATSMEN!
3 Middle Order batsmen
1 all rounder
1 WK
4 Full Time Bowlers

=

5 batsmen (+ 1) if allrounder clicks
1 Keeper
4 Bowlers (+ 1) if all rounder clicks

Razzaq and Afridi are known to be very weak one day and strong the other. wouldnt it be better that instead of doubling the risk we play only 1 and go for more consistency?

[161]

when enland tour i would expect our 11 to be

1. hameed or butt
2. malik
3. yk
4. yoyo
5. inzi
6. kamal
7. afridi
8. akmal
9. shoaib
10. shabbir or gul or sami or rana ??
11. danish

[AT1]

butt
afridi
yk
inzi
yoyo
kamal
razzaq/ rana/ gul
akmal
shoaib
sami
danish

[tahaqureshi]

I expect our line up for tests to be...

S Butt
Y Hameed OR T Umar OR H Raza
Y Khan
I Ul Haq
Y Youhana
A Kamal
K Akmal
S Akhtar
M Sami OR RN Hasan OR "One of the outside talents e.g. M Irshad OR Y Ali"
U Gul
D Kaneria

I'm afraid S Afridi OR A Razzaq have no place in the test squad in my opinion. England have proved how lethal specialist bowlers can be and please do not make any comparisons between Pakistan's two all-rounders and Freddie. Freddie is good enough to be considered a specialist bowler in itself.

We need atleast three quickies and a specialist spinner. If the dynamics and added interest that Afridi brings to test cricket is really very much wanted, then I guess the only player who could be dropped is Kaneria. We can only substitute spinner for spinner.

[Asif khan]

I hope our line up will be:

1.Butt
2.Farhat
3.Younis
4.Inzamam
5.Youhana
6.Afridi
7.Akmal
8.Sami
9.Shoaib
10.Gul
11.Kaneria

With this side we've got a potentially more complete attack than England on these wickets and should be able to bowl them out twice. Its down to the top 7 to make the runs and Pakistan play reverse swing better than any other nation.

However this will probably be the chosen 11:

1.Butt
2.Malik
3.Younis
4.Inzamam
5.Youhana
6.Razzaq
7.Afridi
8.Akmal
9.Sami
10.Shoaib
11.Kaneria

[Waseem]

Salman Butt
Yasir Hameed
Younis Khan
Yousaf Youhanna
Inzamam ul Haq
Asim Kamal
Kamran Akmal
Shoaib Akhtar
Rana/ Shahid Nazir/ Newbie
Umar Gul
Danish Kaneria

If they really want to have another bowling option, then Hameed could be replaced by either Afridi or Malik. We will definitely KILL our chances if we include Razzaq instead of a fast bowler however Afridi may not be a bad option considering England's weakness against spin and he will probably be as effective with the bat as Hameed or Taufeeq.

[Asim2Good]

Originally Posted by kashif77 when enland tour i would expect our 11 to be 1. hameed or butt 2. malik 3. yk 4. yoyo 5. inzi 6. kamal 7. afridi 8. akmal 9. shoaib 10. shabbir or gul or sami or rana ?? 11. danish

3 specialist bowlers in test to beat eng ?

also in very 1st post of this thread, younis khan as opener ?

Salman
Hameed/Umar/Farhat (have to see how Farhat perform against Aus A if chance is given)
YK
Inzi
YoYo
Kamal
Kami
Sami/ S Nazir (i ll choose Nazir if he perform well against Aur A)
Gul
Shoaib
Dani

Better to keep all rounders for ODI side. or Afridi can b tried as 2nd opener but at regular basis not only for Eng series.

[Asim2Good]

Originally Posted by tahaqureshi I then I guess the only player who could be dropped is Kaneria. We can only substitute spinner for spinner.

u can't drop Dani for Afridi

[tahaqureshi]

u can't drop Dani for Afridi

I'm only saying it for the sake of Afridi's inclusion. I don't see anyone else being dropped to fit him in. And I've already stated that IMO Afridi OR Razzaq have no place in the test squad.

[Asim2Good]

Afridi should open in test then IF he is chosen in final XI
we should go with all specialist bowler and batsmen

otherwise "no chance" hits against Eng

[Fawad]

Drop them! They shouldn't be in the side in the first place.

[Amjid Javed]

razzaq shud be nowhere near the test side ever agen. afridi is likely to be picked.. where? i dont know...

[AT1]

Originally Posted by Fawad Drop them! They shouldn't be in the side in the first place.

chill mate

[tahaqureshi]

Afridi provides an extra "ummmfff" to the team which is very useful when morale is down and the boys are out of it, in a hopeless situation. Afridi often takes multiple wickets out of the blue to rejuvenate Pakistan.

Razzaq on the other hand is simply not test match standard. There are others, more young and more raring to go lined up such as Yasir Arafat. Arafat may not turn out to be all that, but he certainly deserves a chance ahead of Razzler.

[DM]

Afridi has to play in our team, especially based on his recent performances with ball and bat. He's one of the last players that we should be thinking about dropping for similar reasons already given above, his bowling, impact batting, fielding and the 'oomph' on the field that Taha mentioned.

[Karachi King]

Originally Posted by tahaqureshi I expect our line up for tests to be... S Butt Y Hameed OR T Umar OR H Raza Y Khan I Ul Haq Y Youhana A Kamal K Akmal S Akhtar M Sami OR RN Hasan OR "One of the outside talents e.g. M Irshad OR Y Ali" U Gul D Kaneria I'm afraid S Afridi OR A Razzaq have no place in the test squad in my opinion. England have proved how lethal specialist bowlers can be and please do not make any comparisons between Pakistan's two all-rounders and Freddie. Freddie is good enough to be considered a specialist bowler in itself. We need atleast three quickies and a specialist spinner. If the dynamics and added interest that Afridi brings to test cricket is really very much wanted, then I guess the only player who could be dropped is Kaneria. We can only substitute spinner for spinner.

excellent team i must say in current circumstances, full of specialists which i always prefer in Test matches. but i am afraid this is not going to be the case in reality. they will pick the team including Afridis & Razzaqs & Maliks as well. in my opinion, if Afridi wants to play, he must compete with some of the bowlers instead of a batsman.

Aneel

[Jafri]

I think this shudd be the team....

Salman
Malik
YK
Yoyo
Inzi
Kamal
Afridi
AKmal
Akhtar
Sami
Danish

Shabbir...he is not in the team becuz he is a chucker...he better fix his style first.
Sami...I think Sami and AKhtar dou will be great for the team...they will both do great.
Hasan...mainly a ODI player..cant buy a wicket in test.
Gul...I hate him.

[Mercenary]

The most likely team will be...

Butt
Malik or Afridi
Younis
Inzi
YoYo
Asim
Kamran
Sami
Akhtar
Gul (if fit)
Kaneria

...its unlikely they will draft in another opener and whilst Malik seems to be the preferred choice for opener, Afridi may get the nod based on his penetrative bowling. I dont think Razzaq will play a part in this test series if there are no injuries or fitness issues.

[tahaqureshi]

I agree with the "likeliness" of Merc's team.

[DM]

My team would be:

1) Butt
2) Shahid Afridi (or lower down if he doesn't want to open or if he doesn't perform there)
3) Younis
4) Inzi
5) Yoyo
6) Asim
7) Kamran
8) Shoaib Akhtar
9) Mohammad Sami
10) Mohammad Irshad (if he's close to 150kph)
11) Yasir Ali (if he's close to 150kph)

with Kaneria getting the nod if it's a more turning and less seamer-friendly wicket. My honest estimation is that this team would beat England's team and even smash them to pieces in some innings.

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by DM My team would be: 1) Butt 2) Shahid Afridi (or lower down if he doesn't want to open or if he doesn't perform there) 3) Younis 4) Inzi 5) Yoyo 6) Asim 7) Kamran 8) Shoaib Akhtar 9) Mohammad Sami 10) Mohammad Irshad (if he's close to 150kph) 11) Yasir Ali (if he's close to 150kph) with Kaneria getting the nod if it's a more turning and less seamer-friendly wicket. My honest estimation is that this team would beat England's team and even smash them to pieces in some innings.

anything less than 3-0 thrashing for pakistan will be a miracle...!

[Daoud]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed anything less than 3-0 thrashing for pakistan will be a miracle...!

I wouldnt go that far, but I wouldnt agree with DM either. I understand your pace obsession, but Sami has shown no signs that he can consistantly run through opposition (or even bowl steadily throughout a series). We have no idea how Irshad and Yasir Ali are, and even if they do bowl over 150, whos to say they arent another Sami or Hayward. They could be something special and worth the gamble but not at the expense of Kaneria, who we know will keep bowling as long as he can hold the ball, and will not let any injury force him off the field

[DM]

Originally Posted by Daoud I wouldnt go that far, but I wouldnt agree with DM either. I understand your pace obsession, but Sami has shown no signs that he can consistantly run through opposition

Agreed and no tearaway can do so consistently that's the logic behind having 4 of them, to increase this chance and the logic behind why i said 'in some innings'.

Originally Posted by Daoud and even if they do bowl over 150, whos to say they arent another Sami or Hayward

just a minor point - Hayward currently has a test bowling average of 29.8 and a Strike Rate of 52.2 and that's including the latter half of his test career when he slowed down - when he was still a tearaway initially both his bowling average and SR were better

[jalex382]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed anything less than 3-0 thrashing for pakistan will be a miracle...!

But Amjid bhai, if my memory serves me right you said the same thing right before the tour to India.

[Jafri]

10) Mohammad Irshad (if he's close to 150kph) 11) Yasir Ali (if he's close to 150kph)

Hmmm..KOOL!

That is kool man that means that we will have 4 bowlers who can do that anytime they want...WOW!

[deviously~fading~away]

Woolmer would never ever drop afridi from test or odi squad. Afridi and malik are his fraviote players. Even on indus sports news in his interview he said that afridi will either open or come lower down and that he is a very big fan of afridi. I cant see afridi being dropped from either squad & i dont see a reason we should drop him. + dont expect razzaq to be dropped either

[abdul0393]

Easa

• Imran Farhat
• Shahid Afridi
• Younis Khan
• Inzi
• Yousef Youhana
• Asim Kamal (if no success Azhar Mahmood)
• Kamran Akmal
• Shoaib Akhtar
• Rana Naved
• Umar Gul
• Danish Kaneria

[WasimG]

Anyone who thinks Afridi doesn't deserve to be in the test XI needs to pull his head outa the sand and check his performances ever since he's been called back.
Looked very good against Aus (better than Inzi), had a great test series against India with both bat and ball and in the two tests vs W.I scored a ton, 43 and 33.
He's more consistent than some specialist batsmen like Youhana.

Razzaq is useless and has to go, atleast from tests.

Butt
Afridi
Younis
Inzi
Yoyo
Asim Kamal/ Hasan Raza
Akmal
Rana
Gul
Actor
Kaneria

I'd rather have Razzaa than Sami. Sami's utter crap. Afridi can really open in subcontinent, he's better than the fisherman and the middle order looks packed.

[Somali Pirate]

whoever thinks razzaq,sami,n afridi are going to be dropped is clearly dreaming.In pakistan perfprmance does not count but being inzi's mate does.

I rather take asim or raza anyday over afridi in tests.As for sami n razzaq the less said the better

[Billy]

So in actual fact we'll be looking at something like..

1.Afridi
2.Malik
3.Younis
4.Inzamam
5.Youhana
6.Kamal
7.Razzaq
8.Akmal
9.Shoaib
10.Sami
11.Kaneria

Possibly?

It bats a long way down I guess.

[Mercenary]

abdul0393. dont make posts with the words a certain player is crap/chucks repeated over and over. If you have something controversial to say then provide justification for it.

I've also removed your signature because it doesnt conform with PP's terms

[deviously~fading~away]

Originally Posted by Billy So in actual fact we'll be looking at something like.. 1.Afridi 2.Malik 3.Younis 4.Inzamam 5.Youhana 6.Kamal 7.Razzaq 8.Akmal 9.Shoaib 10.Sami 11.Kaneria Possibly? It bats a long way down I guess.

Actually Billy woolmer said that afridi is not keen to open in a test match & since he performs down the order he will stay there. This is how i thik the team will look like unless someone performs great against aus A:

1. Butt
2. Malik
3. Younis
4. Yoyo
5. Inzi
6.Asim
7. Lala(afridi)
8. Akmal.
9. Akhtar
10. Sami
11. Dani

Or we may get to see malik replaced by afridi and a bowler like gul or someone be brought in to increase the pace attack as woolmer is keen to have pitches like the Bangalore test which have pace for 1st 3 days and spin for last 2 days

[Billy]

I guess Afridi can play with more freedom down the order.

The real question is whether he can play Gareth Batty's doosra or not.. ;)

[Prince]

Why are people insisting on Rana in Tests? dont get me wrong, in ODIs hes amazing but he just doesnt cut it in Tests.

We should stop trying to turn ODI players into Test match hopefuls. I agree with DM...england, like most teams, clearly can't handle real place and IF Yasir Ali and Irshad are as quick as they are made out to be then give them a go...at least then we'll know whether they have the capability to succeed at this level.

And anyway at least it'll keep Sami on his toes and force him to improve because hes been taking it far too easily in the last year or so...thats the problem...if you don't have excellent bench strength then players like Sami take their place for granted because they know theres no one to replace them much like the fact that Beckham will never be dropped so therefore hes in the comfort zone.

[Usman]

England have 5 specialist bowlers and 6 specialist bats (I consider Flintoff good enough to be classified a specialist bat and bowl). We also have to go in with 5 specialist bowlers (or possibly 4 with an Afridi to make 5) we definatley can't go in with 3 specialist bowlers and two part timers in Afridi and Razzaq because Razzaq is no longer the bowling force he used to be and we don't have a Waseem and Waqar to cover for him either. I don't know why you ppers have lablled Rana a odi player so early in his test career, I have been following his progress in county cricket and he has been more successfull then the England starts such as Harmisson. I for one feel he has a big, big part to play in the tour because don't go relying on shoiab with his injurys and Sami with his short and wide stuff and they way Kaneria has been given a pounding by ordinary batsmen in county cricket, i'm not to sure he'll be running through the English line up.

[DM]

Originally Posted by Prince Why are people insisting on Rana in Tests? dont get me wrong, in ODIs hes amazing but he just doesnt cut it in Tests. We should stop trying to turn ODI players into Test match hopefuls. I agree with DM...england, like most teams, clearly can't handle real place and IF Yasir Ali and Irshad are as quick as they are made out to be then give them a go...at least then we'll know whether they have the capability to succeed at this level. And anyway at least it'll keep Sami on his toes and force him to improve because hes been taking it far too easily in the last year or so...thats the problem...if you don't have excellent bench strength then players like Sami take their place for granted because they know theres no one to replace them much like the fact that Beckham will never be dropped so therefore hes in the comfort zone.

Well said, agreed with that (and not just because you mentioned you agree with me!)

[DM]

Originally Posted by Billy I guess Afridi can play with more freedom down the order. The real question is whether he can play Gareth Batty's doosra or not.. ;)

And thank heavens i haven't heard any mention yet of the fiery demon himself Ronald Irani making a return, otherwise we'd have to unleash the ferocious Fazle Akbar. And I woudn't wish that on my worst enemy, the guy's an animal with the ball.

I heard Ronnie's clocking 155kph in the nets. And btw is it true that both Ronaldo and Ronaldinho's parents named their sons after him?

[alybaba]

butt
malik/hameed
y khan
youhana
inzi
kamal
akmal
shoaib
gul
sami
kaneria

[Jonty]

guys.. are we forgetting rana? rana will probably fit into the lineup somehow..

[zushy_786]

Originally Posted by Jonty guys.. are we forgetting rana? rana will probably fit into the lineup somehow..

Good point there Jonty......I don't know why people don't like Rana enough......He is vastly under rated in my opinion, and frankly with his performance at sussex, I think he deserves a place in the team.......

[offstump]

i agree its a little bit early to write off rana's test career...his county stint so far is really impressive, i hope his confidence with the red ball continues when we play england...i dont think they're going to leave him out but gul is also back now so they may have to...razzaq should be nowhere near the test team, afridi maybe down the order...personally, i would go with 4 specialist bowlers and no all rounders

[Karachi King]

Rana's problem is with the an old ball. i don't see him moving the old ball whereas he swings the ball miles when its new thats why he is more successful in ODIs than Tests. although i wold like to wait till his county stint is over but i won't look for his wickets with the new ball but like to see him performing with an old ball to consider him for the Tests against Eng.

Aneel

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by jalex382 But Amjid bhai, if my memory serves me right you said the same thing right before the tour to India.

yeah which shows miracles sometimes do happen.

[Monsee]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed yeah which shows miracles sometimes do happen.

I guess miracles happen more frequently than Amjid accepting he was ever wrong

[TaZ]

You HAVE to have afridi - the man will tear eng apart with his BOWLING (remember how many big wickets he took against india). The batting is a bonus. Malik will also play for the additional spin option with afridi and kaneria

1 Butt
2 Malik
3 Younis K
4 Inzi
5 Youhana
6 Kamal
7 Afridi
8 Akmal (wk)
9 Shoaib
10 Sami
11 Kaneria