In an exclusive interview with PakPassion.net, O'Brien spoke about the highlights of his career and offered his candid opinion on different aspects of New Zealand cricket as well as a “no nonsense” take on the issues with implementation of DRS.

By Amir Husain (13th July, 2012)

Iain O'Brien played in 22 Tests for New Zealand between 2005 and 2009, taking 73 wickets. Known for his uncanny ability to bowl "into the wind" with amazing returns, O'Brien decided to take early retirement from New Zealand cricket and move to England for personal reasons. 

His career with New Zealand included incredible success in New Zealand's tour of England in 2008, where he ended up taking 15 wickets. Against the Pakistan cricket team at home in December 2009, he gained instant fame at home by bowling New Zealand to victory by taking 3 wickets while suffering from pain of a dislocated finger. In this same series, he took 6 wickets in the next game, including 4/66, dismissing the likes of Salman Butt, Imran Farhat and Misbah-ul-Haq.

In an exclusive interview with PakPassion.net, O'Brien spoke about the highlights of his career and offered his candid opinion on different aspects of New Zealand cricket as well as a “no nonsense” take on the issues with implementation of DRS.

PakPassion.net: : Looking back at your career, what would you describe as the high and low points of your career – any particular incidents that come to mind?

Iain O’Brien: : There are two that stick out - Two most memorable moments stand out in my memory. Of course being picked to play for the New Zealand side is important but once I did get involved, there are 2 bits that stand out the most. One was a Test Loss at Old Trafford (2nd Test, May 2008). We had a two hundred run lead at the end of the 1st innings – both completed 1st innings – we ended up losing that Test Match by 6 wickets. It is the most embarrassing game I have been involved in! I Think Panesar got 6 wickets and we kept on sweeping him and made a mess of it. Sitting back in the changing room afterwards I knew I had done my best in the conditions – I knew I had performed pretty well but yes sitting back and knowing that you have squandered a 2 hundred run lead to lose a Test match – it was embarrassing and hard to take.

Then on the other side, there was a much prouder moment was a Test against Pakistan (Nov 2009) – the 1st Test of the series and my last series of Test cricket that I played. We won the first Test at Dunedin. I think that there were 5 wickets to go and Pakistan needed somewhere around 70 – it was pretty much in the can and we should have lost that Test and we ended up winning it. 

I dislocated my middle finger in my bowling hand - Kamran Akmal blew one back past me and it took my finger with it! I kept bowling and took another couple of wickets and it turned to be one of those days when you look back in terms of memories – in terms of how proud you are at the end of the day and the work you have done. This was certainly my proudest day. 

I guess when you flip back the other side, and I sort of apologize for saying this but when you look at how Pakistan went on to perform in Australia and that was the Sydney Test in the match that we all question how that result came about and I guess, sadly, I now question the result in Dunedin as well. Yes we strived hard and played the best cricket we could but was it all as it seems? My best memory is sadly a bit tarnished by this and I wonder if it was all what it seemed at that moment or not. In any case, it was a massive effort by our guys to win that Test match and start the series so well.

PakPassion.net: : You were termed as specialist “into the wind” bowler – what was the special technique or special traits that you needed to have to be able to bowl into the wind?

Iain O’Brien: : I played at Wellington which was my First Class province. Someone had to bowl into the wind there as it was traditionally a very windy ground. When I started my career in Wellington, there were quite a lot of quicks in front of me, if you like, Mark Gillespie and James Franklin who later went onto play for New Zealand so I had to, as it were, pick up the slack.

The captain and coach would say that you had “that”[against the wind] end. It soon became apparent that if I got good at bowling into the wind, I had a job and I can actually stay in this team! So that was bit of a focus and I came about that role through seeing a niche, if you like – a tough job that no one else really wants to do. I have said it a thousand times that no one really wants to be an “into the wind” bowler – find a rubbish job and get good at it and get paid! So that was part of the rationale – so the more I did it, the better I got [at it]. That was the big thing and, really, you have to “got to want” to do it as well. The fact is that some people aren’t too keen to do the hard work in cricket – some will do the “donkey” stuff. I guess that was the way I would have success and success to me was to be playing and bowling in partnerships. Whether I was taking wickets or the other guy was taking wickets - that was success to me.

So as far as bowling into the wind was concerned I would play and we would have success somehow as a team. It became a role I did and like I said, you have got to want to do it and really your heart has to be in it. [It’s not like] You are not just not going to do it - you are not just going to be able to run up. You just watch the guys who will constantly pull out of their run up if they were buffeted [by the wind] a little bit, they will be the guys who you think their heart isn’t in it and they've not got the determination there to really push through and get the best out of yourself. 

I battled through and got good at it and I learnt the technique and made sure my run up was strong and not too fast. I would try and “cruise” in my run up and ensure that I was strong in my running style – I wouldn’t run too fast but I would make sure to keep my head down depending on how breezy it was. The second important point was that I had a strong jump and I got a lot of my pace through my jump. I managed to sit on top of my jump for a brief pause – I could “load up the spring” at the top of my jump. The run up became a part of it. In a way I didn’t need the run up necessarily – it was simply a part of the rhythm but the jump for me was the most important bit. If you are bowling into a head wind you don’t tend to get blown off but you get to be blown back a little bit. But a strong run up and determination in your run up, a strong jump and the aggression to get the ball down there – I didn’t want to pitch it up too much (laughs). It's more to do with the mindset, if you want to play some cricket and playing at a windy place, you are playing to win your place in the team then bowl in the wind – that’s pretty much it.

PakPassion.net: : You've bowled to some great batsmen over the years – any particular one who you really wanted to avoid bowling too? 

Iain O’Brien: :Sehwag was the one I never wanted to bowl to. He is one of the batsmen that you want to bowl to but, you know, it’s difficult. You think to yourself that it would be great to have his wicket under my name but I don’t want to bowl to him right now! Sehwag is the kind of guy that I still watch on Television and it makes me feel horrible! You know the feeling that you walk into an exam knowing that you aren’t completely prepared for it – that’s the kind of feeling I got when I bowled to Sehwag. I did my best and I had some success against him but he probably had more success against me! So he scared me, which made me bowl bad balls. In a sense, he dictated to me where I could bowl to him. I couldn’t focus or get my mind right. That was an interesting discovery as he made me bowl poorly instead of me bowling bad balls on my own. He was a tough one.

The other batsmen I struggled against was Tillakratne Dilshan from Sri Lanka. It was a similar sort of a way that he could destroy you. I recall that in a Test match in Galle, I went for 40 in my first 4 overs – all that in a Test match! That destroyed me – I don’t think I bowled poorly. I just bowled half a stump too wide and he destroyed me through backward point. I tried to bounce him and the ball went into the popcorn van! I got him on a crazy day. I didn’t bowl too badly but he got me and he had one up on me for the next game too.

And this I say not because I am pandering to your website, but Mohammad Yousuf was my most prized wicket. I got him only once in the times I bowled to him. This was probably because I got the plan 100% right. I bowled 13 dot balls to him in a row and that was a real plus for me. I knew I would have a good series against him due to the length I bowled, but it took me to the 3rd Test before I got him out. Its my favourite wicket in Test cricket – you can probably hear it in my voice, I can still live that wicket !

PakPassion.net: :Was there any particular team that you fancied your chances against or felt you had the upper hand against?

Iain O’Brien: : Bangladesh! That’s a little bit of a soft answer. Fact is that I bowled all right against Australia – in Test matches and a couple of One Dayers I played against them. They were at that time the best team in the world. I did not bowl that well in the first two Tests against them probably due to my inexperience but later on I did very well against them. I did not feel that there were too many players in that team that could hurt me. 

However, there were always players who could murder me – the likes of Sehwag, Dilshan or Akmals – you really couldn’t do much about them. If they wanted your bowling to go over the fence then they would make sure the ball went over the fence. But back to Australia, I felt that if I could keep my areas and my plans right then I felt confident against them. 

I did have a few run-ins with some of their players that helped me sharpen up a little bit so that I was thinking the right things at the right times. They [Australia] were probably, of the teams in the top half of the Test rankings, I felt most comfortable against. It was a similar case with England when bowling to their batting line up which was quite similar to what it is now. I had some good plans and managed to bowl well to them.

PakPassion.net: : You mentioned your run-ins with the Australian players. Care to elaborate on what exactly happened and who it was? 

Iain O’Brien: : Ponting and I had a bit of a run-in a Test at Adelaide. The batsmen get runs at Adelaide. If you look at the domestic batsmen, they head to Adelaide to score runs. It is a wonderful surface for batting. In the Adelaide Test against Australia, Ponting pulled a short one that I bowled and basically picked out Peter Fulton at midwicket inside the circle. Nobody else on the park would have been able to take that catch apart from Fulton because of his height. He (Ponting) was on 70 and I told Ponting that he “had missed out.” At Adelaide, he should have gone to score a big one like 190.

After his dismissal, all of our guys were together in a circle and he had to walk passed us to get to the dressing room. I told Ponting that he had missed out as he walked by. He said "what did you say". I only swore once. We all told him that he should head towards that way, in two words, and he responded telling us we should head the other way, in two words, and it all got a bit spicy. At the press conference that night, they (the media) asked me about this incident. I told them that I had only told him that he had missed out and they all figured there was more to it. I also had a bit of chat with Michael Clarke when I was batting, which I believe was one of the longest ducks in Test history. He (Clarke) told me that he'd rather have an ugly 40 than a long Test duck. Ponting wrote about his incident in his book and it wasn't really that big of a deal. I think he had taken it a little too far. 

You always have interactions with the batsmen. I had great conversations with Mohammad Yousuf. I really enjoyed playing against him and he is probably one of my favourite cricketers. He is a proper legend and it was a really good battle. I had some great fun - fun conversations and chat, a bit of teasing, but nothing nasty. The umpires actually stepped in, but Mohammad Yousuf told them it was all fine. He actually shooed the umpires away. That is why he was such a big wicket for us and it was great competition in that series against him. He is a great man and a great player.

PakPassion.net: : You played under several different captains while playing for New Zealand. Any captains that you were impressed with and any that you were less than impressed with?

Iain O’Brien: : I was truly blessed to have played under Fleming and Vettori for most of my career. That is a great couple of guys to play alongside, let alone have them help you out. For me, Vettori was the better of the two because he made me a better bowler. He stood at mid-off and I could talk to him as I walked back. We could talk about my next delivery, what he wanted from me in the over, or even just have a chat. No one else could see it on the park, the cameras wouldn't pick it up. I would ask him if the next delivery should be a bouncer and he'd say 'Nah, just one more ball'. It made me a better bowler because there were two heads working as one. I could bounce my ideas off of him. He (Vettori) made me a better player and that is why I have to put him ahead of Fleming. 

However, the work that they both did off the park - planning and preparation before the match that New Zealand is now known for, started with Fleming and it has now carried on. We are probably the best in the world in this respect since we aren't as good as other teams so we have to invest more time in researching and preparation. We probably do the most research and are well informed about the opposition than most teams. This is the reason we have had success in places where may be we shouldn't have had. 

I also played under Brendon McCullum a couple of times and we took a long time to get through our overs because he wanted to make sure everything was perfect. As him as a captain, there are a couple times that I remember, one of them was when I had just a horrible day in the field but all in all it made me a better player. 

PakPassion.net: : Are there any particular youngsters in New Zealand that you think have a bright future? 

Iain O’Brien: : Yeah you’ve sort of put me on the spot there, I used to carry around a list of players because I don’t get to see a lot of domestic guys anymore, but I used to carry around a list in case someone asked! There’s a good little crop of bowlers coming through, I think we’ve missed almost 10 years of bowling in New Zealand cricket, for whatever reason, I think we’ve missed almost half a generation of quickies. We just haven’t been able to take it up to that next level but I think we’ve got a good little group through, a couple of youngsters from Central Districts, Adam Milne, another guy there Bevin Small (if he stays fit, he has had a few issues). Also Mitchell McClenaghan. 

There are some good, young fast bowlers that are coming through, we still need a couple of good batsmen that are really pushing hard (at the doors of selection). There’s a still a couple of spots in that New Zealand team that they haven’t got a guy who can score at that position. Now that hurts, see I’m talking about guys that I’ve played with, so that’s not an easy thing for me to say. There is a good little group of fast bowlers coming through so we should have a little bit more in the pantry to pick and choose from in the next couple of years, but I don’t think we’re going to able to compete in a lot of competitions for a while yet. Against quality oppositions I just don’t think we’ve quite got the resources waiting. We’ve seen how they’re competing against West Indies at the moment, they’re getting a bit of a hiding. New Zealand are getting a hiding from a team that have underperformed against England, maybe the New Zealand team are just finding their feet, and finding the belief and confidence and getting everyone in the right place, but they’re getting beaten by a, rankings wise, not a very good team. 

PakPassion.net: : Your thoughts on Ross Taylor and his captaincy? Do you see him as being the captain for the long haul or do you think he’s a stop-gap appointment?

Iain O’Brien: : I don’t really know. I’m not really sure. I haven’t played under him so I couldn’t really comment too much about his captaincy. Brendon McCullum was the vice-captain for a lot of the time I was there, under Vettori, then Brendon lost the vice-captaincy and Ross was the vice-captain, but I never really played under Ross. 

So knowing his captaincy, knowing things about him, I can’t really comment, but they’re giving Kane Williamson a crack here, a 22 year old who’s captained for Gloucestershire over here in county competitions. John Bracewell’s the coach over there and he’s given him a crack. He’s a clever kid, a really, really clever kid. Probably thinks about cricket a little bit too much, it might just drown his brain a little bit every now and then with cricket, but he’s a clever kid and seems a pretty stable guy. I think that’s a big thing. 

I’ve played alongside Ross quite a bit and I think the captaincy might just balance some of the emotion that he would have out in the field. I think that’s a big thing, being able to stay cool and calm, as there aren’t so many captains around the world that get angry and get grumpy. It might come down to Ross and Kane Williamson in a couple of years time, I’m not sure Kane’s quite ready for the role full-time but it will be interesting to see how he goes in the next wee while, and see some of the strategic stuff that he will bring.

PakPassion.net: : New Zealand are widely regarded as a ‘nearly’ team, they make it to the semi-finals, they play some good cricket, they entertain, but they never take that final step of winning a major tournament. Why do you think that is and do you envisage them winning a major tournament soon?

Iain O’Brien: : Well just once, we won the Champions Trophy in Nairobi, Kenya in 2000, but not much since then. A couple of semi-finals, I was lucky enough to be in the Champions Trophy in South Africa and we lost the final to Australia after beating Pakistan in the semi-finals. By the way, beating Pakistan in that semi-final was win from the mouth of defeat! 

We get into great positions, but it seems to me that New Zealanders don’t play enough cricket, and so we get tired quickly in matches and in series. We get tired and we get fatigued and we make mistakes, and we squander great positions. We did it at Old Trafford, in that Test match I mentioned earlier, we give up good positions and I think we do that in tournaments as well, we get tired and get fatigued. We ride our luck a little bit but there’s only so far that luck and emotion will take you. I think towards the end of the tournament we get a bit tired, we get a few more injuries, and we don’t have the cover in the squad to cover some of those injuries. Guys are playing that shouldn’t be playing. I’ve certainly been in that situation where I’m playing, and I know that the guy I've replaced was better than me!

I just think we don’t have enough hard cricket consistently enough in New Zealand to build up that stamina to keep going and keep going and keep going, and have success in big tournaments. I think that comes back to our Test cricket, we compete for 3 days, 3.5 days, and then we make some big mistakes and lose the game, quite often in a session or a session and a half. You can’t be doing that in Test cricket but I think there’s a correlation there into our tournaments. 

We overachieve in terms of our base of players, yes a lot of guys that play cricket in New Zealand do pretty well, but I think we achieve what we do through good scouting and great plans. We know our opposition very well and we know what we want to do, but towards the money time of the tournament we fatigue. I don’t think it’s a choking thing, I just think we fatigue, we just run out of puff, we run out of steam, we run out of good players. We end up semi-finalists and finalists, but not lifting the trophy. Again we were in the semi-finals of the world cup, and that’s not bad, that’s not bad for New Zealand. Yeah it would be nice to get into the final and have a chance in that kind of a situation, but it’s not bad in terms of where New Zealand cricket is at the moment.

PakPassion.net: : Shane Bond only played 18 Test matches, which for any cricket lover around the world was a real travesty. What went wrong with Shane? Obviously he had a lot of injury problems, where did it go wrong for him? 

Iain O’Brien: : I played alongside him twice in Test matches, and he took 5 wickets in the 1st innings of both Test matches. We had a win together against Pakistan in the first Test of the series down in Dunedin that I spoke about earlier. They both turned out to be his last 2 Test matches if you like. He pulled up after the first innings in Johannesburg in a Test match against South Africa, he took 5 in the first, we were back out bowling after being dismissed in around 3 hours. He ripped an abdominal and that was his last Test match that he played for a long time. He thought he was done and that he would never play a Test match again. 

His first Test match back ended up being his last ever Test match. I played in both his last matches if that makes sense. Test cricket didn’t really agree with him, and a big thing was that we didn’t bat for long enough in our 2nd innings. He had 3 hours in terms of how much time he spent off the park. Normally you get at least a nights sleep in between having to go back out and bowl but we had 3 hours off the park, and we were back out bowling in the 2nd innings. That’s just not enough. I think the combination of that and a really severe action, the forces that he generated around his trunk, from his waist to his top half, the rotation that he used to produce there that produces a lot of his energy. Have a look at how golfers swing their hips through, they’ll create some rotational energy and Shane Bond took that to another level. I think that a big part of what made him quick was actually his downfall. He needed the recovery time for his body to settle back down, and those niggles to just heal up a bit before we go back out and do it again. He couldn’t get it, but more so that his action was just so hard on his body. 

I do think certain players wear and tear better than others. How often do you see a sprinter pull up with a hamstring, and that’s sort of the extent of it? Shane Bond, and other fast bowlers, they’re all putting a maximal effort for as long as they can, and you expect them to not have injuries? You can think of 4-5 times that sprinters have pulled up lame in a 100m, and they only have to that once every couple of weeks. A cricketer is doing that 6 times an over, maybe 23 times a day, and that’s why there are injuries. Bond was a sprinter trying to do an endurance runner’s job. I think that’s the best analogy there is - he was a sprinter running a marathon!

PakPassion.net: : What are your thoughts on the loss of John Wright as coach for New Zealand – did New Zealand cricket miss out on this opportunity?

Iain O’Brien: : Yes, I think that is the consensus and that is also my opinion. I did not play under John Wright but he was around as an advisor towards the end of my playing career but I do feel that New Zealand missed out. 

The fact is that John Buchanan’s (Director of New Zealand Cricket] sole focus was One Day cricket and his idea was to start with the World Cup and then build New Zealand cricket. With John Wright in charge, that was never going to be a match made in heaven. John Wright is a Test player and Test coach and he feels that Test cricket is that ultimate form and he is that dogged marathon runner [in terms of belief in the longer format of game]. Having a guy [Buchanan] whose focus is on One Day cricket or white ball cricket and one who is more Test biased [John Wright] which is a good thing in my eye, was a match that did not work.

Given the same situation with any other coach who had a similar background in Test matches, most coaches would have said that Test cricket is more the “be all”, not quite the end all, but it’s a big deal. I think this was the problem and I do feel that New Zealand have missed out on a long term choice. 

As a coach John Wright helped me; I never got much out of most coaches in New Zealand. I had one coach who patted me on the back and wished me luck and another who didn’t really talk to me! John Wright, on the other hand, spoke to me and gave me an opportunity to be a better player.

PakPassion.net: : What is your stand on the DRS? Do you think it’s the way forward much in line with other sports or do you have reservations like the BCCI on the quality of the technology?

Iain O’Brien: :I am with the BCCI on everything and I feel that we have to take their stand – NOT ! Seriously speaking, I think it’s ridiculous what they are doing. The fact is that I have seen the technology fail and wrong decisions being made and we are not talking about decisions due to incorrect interpretation but about the actual data that the machine has been given is wrong. I saw that in a recent Test match where New Zealand were playing against Australia in Hobart. We went onto win that Test, but it should have been won much earlier. This was due to one of the ball tracking cameras not working. In this scenario, it changed the way the ball was being projected on the mapping system and therefore a decision that was made was incorrect compared to the real time decision. 

For me, there is a suspicion that the technology can be manipulated and I feel that is what BCCI have an issue with, that they have done some pretty decent research into it and feel that technology can be manipulated. And I know it can be done that way as TV companies run it and if one camera isn’t working, then the pictures are off and ball tracking is inaccurate. 

I believe that is the issue that BCCI have with, but let’s all go with it – lets have the ability to review a “Howler” and I use that word with care – it has to be a howler. I really dislike the captain gambling with a review. To me that is such a bad use of technology – it’s like saying we can’t get Chris Gayle out so let’s gamble with the review! That’s not what the technology is for and that’s where it needs to be stopped – it’s not for gambling but for howlers. It should be for clear cut out or not out decisions and not for ultra fine “maybe” type decisions. All countries have accepted it except BCCI as they seem to have an aversion to it, maybe, because they feel it can be manipulated. I wish that they would do what everyone else is doing as all – it’s not pushing the boundaries too much – all it means is that we get standardized and consistent results. That’s all we want, what's better for cricket and better results.

PakPassion.net: : Iain finally, with regards to yourself, how hard was it to retire from cricket? And secondly, what are your plans for the future?

Iain O’Brien: : Making that decision was tough, but the reason I made that decision and for where I am right now, I know it was the right thing. Look, I retired because I wanted a family - that was the big thing for me. Me wanting to start a family was more important than playing international cricket. That was the big one; you know my wife and I only lived together for 2 months in a year and that doesn’t work too well. So, I wanted a family and so the decision to retire wasn’t difficult. 

When I was going to retire that was a tough one, you know it was going to happen and so I looked at our schedule and it worked perfectly, just the time before Christmas and then I came back over here to England and I have been here since the time for my first winter Christmas. It was tough, I knew it during my last tour, I knew when I went to back to New Zealand that I had to retire eventually. My decision was made up in August to retire in December. I knew I was doing it for all the right reasons. I can’t stress how much I wanted to create a family. 

Now, I have got a wonderful little girl, she’s eighteen months old and it’s just an amazing life. Now I look back, I would love to go back to play cricket, I really would and I tried. I went back this summer, because we started a family, I went back and I tried to play again, because this part of my life was, the family box was ticked, at the time I wanted a family and I got my family. That fact gave me the ok, I guess, in some way to give it another go. So, I went back to New Zealand and gave it another go and my body wasn’t up to it. 

Mentally I was up to getting back into the New Zealand team, but my body certainly wasn’t. So I guess retiring again was purely thanks to my back. I got more out of my body than I should have in my career! So it was probably time now to properly give it up. So the decisions, first one to retire I guess was because I wanted to. I wanted a family more than I wanted to play cricket for my country. I made that decision rightly, because that was a major part of my life and I am really blessed. Second time, it was time to go. 

What am I doing now? I'm looking to start an underwear company, design some underwear for men that are comfortable to play in, to be active in, to wear day to day that are better compared to what there is on the market at the moment. Currently, I am awaiting feedback on this from some players across different sports. The company is called 010Gear things are starting to happen. Also, I have written a couple of children's books with a friend, the first one is getting published and it will hopefully be published early next year. The children's books are sort of for the age of 3 to 8. Read to a three year old and eight year old should be able to read it. The books are meant to be quite fun, it's on sporting activity and fantasy stuff. Those things and spending time with the family and I have got quite bit of spare time. 

There is commentary as well, which I love. Doing quite a bit of radio commentary and that’s fantastic, I absolutely love radio commentary. I would love to make a career out of it. The key is to be involved in cricket; it keeps me current and it’s the next best thing to playing. 

I want to get into bowling coaching. It's a big one for me. I really want to get in and make some better bowlers out there in the world. Things are a bit quiet, at the moment, for my liking. I need to keep busy; I need to keep this crazy mind at bay. We are doing all right at the moment, got some pretty big stuff coming up, so things are good for us, thank you. 

PakPassion.net: : On behalf of everybody on PakPassion and I am sure all the people that will read this interview, we wish you all the best for the future and once again thank you very much for your time.

Iain O’Brien: : you’re welcome, my absolute pleasure.

Discuss!